WSB? How to form a routine after the basic routine.

[Parabellum]

I've been doing the 9 week basic program for about a year now. I'm confused about making a long term plan for a year.

How does everyone change their routine and intensity throughout the year? How do periodize the routine? Do I break it up into a 4 week thing or three month thing?

 

[Hannibal]

Do you plan on competing? When you have competition to plan around it makes it easier to set up routine IMO.

 

[Parabellum]

No plans to compete within the next year. I do not think I have any right to even try to compete until I get stronger, a lot stronger. I think I would only embarass myself.

 

[argent]

I would still track your progress as an 8 or 9 week program and reevaluate after that. In those weeks I would pound the shit out of your weaknesses. If your weak on 4 board press, do it... alot!! If your weak on suspened GM's, do them...a lot. Thats what I would do bro. Hammer your weak points, still within the general framework of the program though.

 

[SlavikHavik]

Pick your max exercises as you go. and re-evaluate your weak points every four weeks. and select your exercises accordingly

 

[spatts]

Exactly. Find your weaknesses and arrange any accessory work to make sure those areas get covered. If you are doing 2 main moves + accessory work like we do, and for example you have weak tris, then maybe you want to make sure you get more top end close grip work in on bench...things like that. Are you looking for a split and set/rep scheme? I'm not sure what you are taking with you and what needs to be revised.

 

[SlavikHavik]

2 main?

Spatts, you use 2 ME moves per ME day?
like box squats, and good mornings on ME Squat day?

 

[spatts]

Yep. We always do 2 main moves, plus accessory work.

 

[Parabellum]

INteresting that you do two main moves. So you do 2 ME days with 2 main moves per week. Doesn't wear you out?

I ahve to reevalute my training for the last few months and see where I'm lacking. Some is due to dieting but now that I think about it I see where I can improve. I train alone so with some things like the bench I have to kindo of guess where I think I failed.

I was just curious if you basically do the same type of workout throughout the year. I know to change the ME excercises efvery three weeks or so and max out every 8-9 weeks.


Do you improve every 9 weeks when you max out? For the bench I only improved 5 lbs in the last 5 months or so.

 

[spatts]

How Our Crew Does WSB:

M-1> = Main Move 1 (either to a 1 RM or for speed)
M-2> = Main Move 2 (usually a 3RM)

These are compound moves, and are done HEAVY. A PR is attempted EVERY TIME.

Accessory> = Isolated work for all the muscles that were involved that day. These are sometimes done for speed, sometimes super setted, sometimes with controlled negatives, sometimes it's one big long set with pauses, or drop sets...I just play it by ear and try to fatigue the muscle.


Monday:

Dynamic Effort Bench

M-1> Speed bench (3x8)

M-2> JM press, or other partial bench move to a 3 rep max, or an oly lift (generally I do oly moves in a 3-5 rep range, sets vary).

Accessory> Tris, lats, shoulders, etc...

___________________

Tuesday:

Max Effort Squat/Dead

M-1> GM, partial squat, or partial dead to a 1 rep max

M-2> GM, partial squat, partial dead, or other similar move (Zerchers) to a 3 rep max

Accessory> Core, glutes, hams, flexors, etc...

_____________________

Thursday:

Max Effort Bench

M-1> Partial move to a 1 rep max

M-2> Partial move to a 3 rep max

Accessory> Tris, lats, shoulders, etc...

______________________

Saturday:

Dynamic Effort Squat

M-1> Speed Squats (2x8)

M-2> Usually speed deads (6 singles, or 3x3, whatever I feel like doing...with bands and chains)

Accessory> Core, glutes, hams, flexors, etc...


Then I do extra workouts, sled dragging, active recovery, etc...in addition to the 4 main days.

 

[SlavikHavik]

So when your doing the two main heavy moves on your ME days

you do the first to one rep. How about how many sets would you do for that first exercise? And do you do the typical (roughly) 2 sets of 5, 6 sets of 3, 3 sets of 1

and how many sets for the second exercise? and what does the rep scheme look like for that?

Thanks

 

[spatts]

For example:

Let's say it's ME squat day and my 1st Main Move is going to be a 36" chain suspended good morning (wide/arched back) with the safety squat bar.

Bar x 3
Bar + 25s x 3
Bar + 45s x 3
Bar + 45s + 25s x 3

When this starts to feel hard, and it doesn't take very long, I switch to a 1R mode:

Bar + 45s + 45s x 1
Bar + 45s + 45s + 25s x 1

and this this will keep going up in 45s, 25s, and 10s until I reach my 1 rep max.

The exception this is that if I'm trying to break a personal record (which is the case every time I set foot in the gym) I will purposefully switch from 3 reps to 1 rep early in the game to conserve my energy for that last 1 RM lift.

Did that answer your question?

 

[Parabellum]

Spatts, after your speed work do you do a max heavy single? I read somewhere that it would be ideal to do it. But I can't seem to find out if this is done every speed day or about 4-5 weeks into a program.

 

[BodybuildingUniverse]

"No plans to compete within the next year. I do not think I have any right to even try to compete until I get stronger, a lot stronger. I think I would only embarass myself."

Parabellum, just my $.02 but contest day can be one hell of a motivational learning experience. to compete in a small local meet is fun to test yourself, no matter your placings. You should go for it man

 

[spatts]

Parabellum...compete. Please. You will have so much fun and learn SO much.

If I am going to work up to a 1 rep max on a full lift (which is VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY rare) I do it at that time. Also, I may work up to a single partial 1RM at that time.

 

[skaman607]

Why do you only dopartial movements for bench?

 

[spatts]

Skaman, we only do partial movements on everything...except for speed bench and speed squat (the M-1's on dynamic effort day).

The only time I ever do a full ROM 1RM is in a comp.

This is to prevent injury and train the links that make the chain...particularly, the weak ones.

 

[skaman607]

So then using close grip bench for ME day is out of the question?

 

[spatts]

No...we just do close grip 2, 3, 4, 5, board, etc...

 

[JOKER47]

Skaman, we only do partial movements on everything...except for speed bench and speed squat (the M-1's on dynamic effort day).

The only time I ever do a full ROM 1RM is in a comp.

This is to prevent injury and train the links that make the chain...particularly, the weak ones.

How do you determine your weaknesses during training without doing a full ROM at least once prior to a comp?

Curious,
Joker

 

[Parabellum]

I went to a few competions as a spectator when I lived in Cali and they were fun. I had a buddy who always competed. He was just beginning and somehow he always managed to walk a way with a trophey because the other competitors would open with a lift that was too much for them. I thought that was funny. He taught me alot at the time.

I'll look for some local competitions.
Thanks for the advice.

I looked up the DE day max out thing and during the basic program in week 4 DE squat day you go heavy and week 5 after DE bench you go heavy for one. I would do the bench one every week, no wonder I was stalling out on ME day and only moved up 5 lbs on max out day.

 

[spatts]

Joker, that's a good question. Ideally, we would compete often enough that we would know where we're failing on a given movement at LEAST every 12 weeks. You can also kind of tell by your comparitive numbers on partials. For example, my floor press was stuck at 177 for what seemed like forever, while my rack lockouts were at 403 pounds. That tells me that there's a HUGE difference in contributing strength between my shoulders and my tris. So I started doing more work for my shoulders. Now my floor press is up to 200ish. The nice thing about that is that my total 1 rep max raw bench has never been MORE than the lowest of my partials. So when I was at a 177 floor press (which is the lowest of my partials, in terms of stength), that's all my 1 rep max was. Now that it's closer to 200, so is my raw 1 rep max. Make sense?

 

[JOKER47]

Joker, that's a good question. Ideally, we would compete often enough that we would know where we're failing on a given movement at LEAST every 12 weeks. You can also kind of tell by your comparitive numbers on partials. For example, my floor press was stuck at 177 for what seemed like forever, while my rack lockouts were at 403 pounds. That tells me that there's a HUGE difference in contributing strength between my shoulders and my tris. So I started doing more work for my shoulders. Now my floor press is up to 200ish. The nice thing about that is that my total 1 rep max raw bench has never been MORE than the lowest of my partials. So when I was at a 177 floor press (which is the lowest of my partials, in terms of stength), that's all my 1 rep max was. Now that it's closer to 200, so is my raw 1 rep max. Make sense?

I see the logic there. I guess my concern would be that it seems to be a little of a guessing game for your opening lift(s) come comp day. Personally, I wouldn't want to find my weakness during my comp.

Is WSB completely "against" full ROM lifts except during comps? Or is that how you and your crew choose to apply their principles?

For me, I try for a new PR in a full ROM about every 5-6 weeks. Wherever I fail during this, I put my focus on for the next 5-6 weeks, then do it again and see if I have fixed, or made improvements on the problem. (Of course, I am not a competitor either, so I don't have the comps as you do.)


Thanks,
Joker

 

[spatts]

Joker, I don't know how Lou and his boys do things. DBC could better comment on that. Prior to my first comp, I did do a "test day" in July and in October, set up just as if it were a meet, but in the gym. We did full ROM MAX everything. We worked up in the circamax phase, deloaded, took the week off, and everything....just like a comp. That's how I knew my weaknesses and openers for the November comp.

Every now and then one of us will get a wild hair, we're having an on day, we've had plenty of rest and there are plenty of spotters, and we just GO FOR IT. Not so much me, but some of the other guys. Especially if they got new equipment and need to "test drive" it.

 

[JOKER47]

Joker, I don't know how Lou and his boys do things. DBC could better comment on that. Prior to my first comp, I did do a "test day" in July and in October, set up just as if it were a meet, but in the gym. We did full ROM MAX everything. We worked up in the circamax phase, deloaded, took the week off, and everything....just like a comp. That's how I knew my weaknesses and openers for the November comp.

Every now and then one of us will get a wild hair, we're having an on day, we've had plenty of rest and there are plenty of spotters, and we just GO FOR IT. Not so much me, but some of the other guys. Especially if they got new equipment and need to "test drive" it.

Thanks for the clarification on all that, Spatts.

One last question: Do you ever feel that you might have been better off at a meet if you HAD done a "test day" a few weeks prior to the comp?


Thanks again,
Joker

 

[Hannibal]

Is WSB completely "against" full ROM lifts except during comps? Or is that how you and your crew choose to apply their principles?

Lou recommends that you "take a weight" after your speed sets every once in awhile to see where you are at. That's the best way to determine a weak point. We as a crew do not do that enough...thats my fault...haven't been reminding them that they need to do it.

Also 4 weeks out or so from a meet, usually during a circa max phase where we don't go as heavy on ME moves, we will use a ME day to work up on Squat openers.

Basically the trick is to learn your carry over on certain exercises. Like for me personally I know that my reverse band blue deadlift without any equipment....is about the same as my deadlift in comp with gear. So if that goes up...then I know that my comp deadlift went up.

You also need to establish a PR off your Dynamic Day box...then compare that to your comp numbers. Say you squated 400 off your box a couple weeks out from the meet. Then at the meet you squatted 500...thats a 100lb carry over. So if you test again and you get 425...then you are capable of 525 in the meet. Establishing a consitant carry over is how you can know what to espect in a comp without burining yourself out with full ROM reps.

 

[spatts]

We as a crew do not do that enough...thats my fault...haven't been reminding them that they need to do it.

It's not your fault, I just don't do it. Don't feel like I need to.

Joker, the only time I have wished I'd had a better grasp was my first comp. I had never squatted with knee wraps before. So they wrapped those suckers up, I got under 365, which was my third attempt, and I just sprang right back up with it like it was nothing...I couldn't believe what knee wraps added to my squat. If I had known they would make a huge difference, I would've practiced in them a few times and maybe gone for something closer to 375-400. At that particular meet, that would've made the difference between me reaching Elite at my first comp and not.

 

[JOKER47]

Hannibal/Spatts,
Thank you both for the claification to all my questions. It's much appreciated. Although I don't compete, the science of how it all comes together really intrigues me.
Thanks again.


Joker

 

[skaman607]

so you almost made elite at your first meet?

 

[spatts]

Yeah, but what did "almost" ever get someone, you know? I didn't make it.

 

[skaman607]

Have you since?

 

[spatts]

No. I totalled 1050 in my last comp, but that didn't include my squats because I couldn't finish those (kidneys). I needed 1053.

 

[BodybuildingUniverse]

"but that didn't include my squats"

a 1050 without squats? or just your opener? sorry, confused...

 

[spatts]

Sorry, just the opener. The 350 opener. My second attempt was 400, thrid would've been 425. Kidneys weren't gonna have any part of it. I'll get it next time.

 

[Parabellum]

Damn Spatts.

Very nice. My maxes are bench 370, squat 435, dead 425. So a meesly 1230 is nothing to compete with.

Impressive Spatts. Haha you'd freak everyone at my gym out if you came by and maxed out and I bet you 20 bucks some people would never come to train there again.

 

[leatherface]

Real quick question regarding this. Are you guys saying that once in a while, on DE day after your main DE move(bench or box squats), that you should attempt something like a 1RM to see where you fail, thus knowing your weak point and nailing it in the following weeks? Or did you mean something else?

 

[spatts]

Impressive Spatts. Haha you'd freak everyone at my gym out if you came by and maxed out and I bet you 20 bucks some people would never come to train there again.

That would make me sad. <---see?

I'd prefer them to train with me...to see how much damn fun I have.

So far my best comp lifts are a 365 squat, 270 bench, 430 deadlift. Tamara Grimwood, God rest her soul, set the records in my weight class back in 1995 with a 620 squat, 400 Bench, and a 550 Deadlift for a TOTAL of 1540. I've got plenty of work to do.

*BTW, her 1540 total in the 181's is higher then the IPA records for the 198 and SHW classes too. She was phenomenal.

Leatherface, yes, that's what they're saying.

 

[Hannibal]

Real quick question regarding this. Are you guys saying that once in a while, on DE day after your main DE move(bench or box squats), that you should attempt something like a 1RM to see where you fail, thus knowing your weak point and nailing it in the following weeks? Or did you mean something else?

You should NOT fail on DE day. If you fail on DE then you have basically turned it into a ME day, and thats a good way to burn out. When you work up...just add some weight and see how it goes. Like on Box Squats...if you add a plate and your back starts to round then you know you need to bring your erectors up.