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Winstrol and Dianabol

BigCracker said:
Yeah, but it doesn't consist of the infamous oral only retard cycle. Read the stickies newbie.
Click to expand...
I understand that you may be a veteran in this game however, you must realise that some people regardless of personal opinions of others are going to do orals only. People have their reasons. Aka detection times...Although I have been reading over this forum for a number of years, with all the information provided from fellow brothers I too am still considering an oral only stack.
As well as pointing the 'newbies' in the right direction, also try to answer their questions too :artist:
 
rsoschmidt said:
Well thats all I have. Why not just oral only?
Click to expand...

Bro, if this is the kind of 411 you're looking for you need to do some research on your own. This board has a lot of good info-but it caters more to the advanced AS user that bare minimum knows that oral only cycles suck. Not only are orals 2x as toxic to the liver than injectables, you'll lose the gains you get as quickly as you got them. Spend some time reading and researching this subject of AS use. Your diet and training better be on point as well. In fact, unless you have at least 3 yrs in the gym naturally, roids are definitely not the way to go. Make gains naturally through proper training and diet. Then when you plateau after a few yrs, use roids to get you past it. Of course, not everyone listens to the advice we give out here.
 
BigCracker said:
Bro, if this is the kind of 411 you're looking for you need to do some research on your own. This board has a lot of good info-but it caters more to the advanced AS user that bare minimum knows that oral only cycles suck. Not only are orals 2x as toxic to the liver than injectables, you'll lose the gains you get as quickly as you got them. Spend some time reading and researching this subject of AS use. Your diet and training better be on point as well. In fact, unless you have at least 3 yrs in the gym naturally, roids are definitely not the way to go. Make gains naturally through proper training and diet. Then when you plateau after a few yrs, use roids to get you past it. Of course, not everyone listens to the advice we give out here.
Click to expand...

great points B.C. (as always)

I've always considered all orals to be more of an added "supplement" to a well-based cycle.
 
Honestly... I have a great diet... i have been working out for years... and just wanted to try my first cycle... without needles. I have been to many differnt websites posting there ideas for Dianabol and Windstrol tab stacking.

I just wanted some advice before i started the cycle.
 
Wax-on said:
I understand that you may be a veteran in this game however, you must realise that some people regardless of personal opinions of others are going to do orals only. People have their reasons. Aka detection times...Although I have been reading over this forum for a number of years, with all the information provided from fellow brothers I too am still considering an oral only stack.
As well as pointing the 'newbies' in the right direction, also try to answer their questions too :artist:
Click to expand...

I hear you-but if detection times were an issue I'm sure he'd have rephrased his question. Sure, some athletes may do well on an oral only cycle that caters to their individual needs-but not for the majority of AS users-especially newbs. I still can't see why some avg AS user would want to do an oral only cycle unless they were scared of needles(or scared of their parents/wife/gf finding them). 9 out of 10 times someone wants to do orals only is for this reason-so generally I approach each oral only thread in a negative way. Obviously the guys scared of needles are uninformed and probably should do some more research before getting involved in the chemical enhancement game. And obviously guys that live under the roof of someone that's gonna freak out over AS use are asking for trouble too, but that's just my 2 cc's.

And pointing the newbies to the stickies is about the best direction I can give them without telling them to google AS and read for 6 months.
 
rsoschmidt said:
I just wanted some advice before i started the cycle.
Click to expand...

OK - don't do ANY cycles until you get over your fear of needles.

That stck you have is a "joke" and you will be worse off AFTER your cycle than before.

You'll probably STILL go ahead with this cycle, so when you CRASH after the cycle, and lose about 98% of your gains,..................don't come crying here, cause you got some SOUND advice from some good people.
 
a creed said:
OK - don't do ANY cycles until you get over your fear of needles.

That stck you have is a "joke" and you will be worse off AFTER your cycle than before.

You'll probably STILL go ahead with this cycle, so when you CRASH after the cycle, and lose about 98% of your gains,..................don't come crying here, cause you got some SOUND advice from some good people.
Click to expand...


Even that's a conservative estimate. Without PCT he could wind up actually looking worse than when he started after being off 6 wks.
 
Soooo.... your against tabs huh? I can tell... and I will take your advice. I am a "Newb" when it comes to Steriods... and wanted to take it slow to start with. Injection seems the way to go... next time. I guess I will just use the dose i mentioned above. :)
 
BigCracker said:
Even that's a conservative estimate. Without PCT he could wind up actually looking worse than when he started after being off 6 wks.
Click to expand...

Ya, I know - but I was trying to be nice.................LOL

I don't know why I even bother............
 
Got this off bb.com hope it helps some

All Oral Cycle

Week Dianabol Winstrol/Stromba Anavar HCG & Nolva
1 30-40 mg/day
2 30-40 mg/day
3 30-40 mg/day 25-50 mg every day
4 30-40 mg/day 25-50 mg every day 5000 IU/week HCG
5 30-40 mg/day 25-50 mg every day 5000 IU/week HCG
6 30-40 mg/day 25-50 mg every day 30-40 mg/day 5000 IU/week HCG
7 25-50 mg every day 30-40 mg/day 5000 IU/week HCG
8 25-50 mg every day 30-40 mg/day
9 40 mg/day Nolva
10 20 mg/day Nolva
11 20 mg/day Nolva


I'm a member at several online steroid boards and you always hear the vets say: "Don't use only orals, your gains won't last". Here's a newsflash: the roids you take orally are no different from the ones you inject. Naturally I need to add here that you will get better gains with injectables. The half-life is longer, they can be used longer because they aren't so toxic, they can be used in higher doses and the effects stay for a while after a cycle (which could account for the belief that gains on orals disappear). But I'd like to know where the belief that an oral only stack can't offer good gains originated? A lot of bodybuilders in the 60's and 70's were basically living off dianabol. The key to keeping gains on any stack is facilitating the return of natural test after a stack and keeping calories high in your diet no matter what.

The problem of an oral only stack is that its limited in time. 6-8 weeks at best. Meaning multiple stacks are needed where less stacks would be needed with injectables. An oral only stack is hard to set up because you have no real base compounds either. This is one I sweated out after much thinking for all you wimps that can't take a needle. Because anavar and winny block the aromatisation off d-bol, there isn't much post-cycle estrogen so the use of clomid/Nolva afterwards is limited but still advised. It should be started immediately after the cycle is over. With lon-acting injectables one can usually wait 1.5 to 2 weeks after last shot to start post-cycle therapy and then still there is a certain level of androgens in the body. With the orals, most of the androgen will be cleared in 1-2 days tops. So Clomid/Nolva therapy needs to start immediately. Here it is illustrated with 40 and 20 mg of Nolva, but could easily be run with 150 and 100 mg of clomid respectively. This was a good stack to demonstrate the use of HCG (which is injectable. Oh the irony). At least one of the uses. HCG keeps the size of your nuts up even after HPTA is shut down by your roids. That facilitates post-cycle recovery. Since HCG itself can cause negative feedback it needs to be discontinued the week before you come off or it will do the opposite of what it is intended to do. NEVER run HCG longer than Nolva or clomid. One should take a long break off any type of 17-alpha-alkylated steroids after this cycle as the liver will have taken a severe beating. That's the downside of being scared of needles.
 
dawg4life said:
Got this off bb.com hope it helps some

All Oral Cycle

Week Dianabol Winstrol/Stromba Anavar HCG & Nolva
1 30-40 mg/day
2 30-40 mg/day
3 30-40 mg/day 25-50 mg every day
4 30-40 mg/day 25-50 mg every day 5000 IU/week HCG
5 30-40 mg/day 25-50 mg every day 5000 IU/week HCG
6 30-40 mg/day 25-50 mg every day 30-40 mg/day 5000 IU/week HCG
7 25-50 mg every day 30-40 mg/day 5000 IU/week HCG
8 25-50 mg every day 30-40 mg/day
9 40 mg/day Nolva
10 20 mg/day Nolva
11 20 mg/day Nolva


I'm a member at several online steroid boards and you always hear the vets say: "Don't use only orals, your gains won't last". Here's a newsflash: the roids you take orally are no different from the ones you inject. Naturally I need to add here that you will get better gains with injectables. The half-life is longer, they can be used longer because they aren't so toxic, they can be used in higher doses and the effects stay for a while after a cycle (which could account for the belief that gains on orals disappear). But I'd like to know where the belief that an oral only stack can't offer good gains originated? A lot of bodybuilders in the 60's and 70's were basically living off dianabol. The key to keeping gains on any stack is facilitating the return of natural test after a stack and keeping calories high in your diet no matter what.

The problem of an oral only stack is that its limited in time. 6-8 weeks at best. Meaning multiple stacks are needed where less stacks would be needed with injectables. An oral only stack is hard to set up because you have no real base compounds either. This is one I sweated out after much thinking for all you wimps that can't take a needle. Because anavar and winny block the aromatisation off d-bol, there isn't much post-cycle estrogen so the use of clomid/Nolva afterwards is limited but still advised. It should be started immediately after the cycle is over. With lon-acting injectables one can usually wait 1.5 to 2 weeks after last shot to start post-cycle therapy and then still there is a certain level of androgens in the body. With the orals, most of the androgen will be cleared in 1-2 days tops. So Clomid/Nolva therapy needs to start immediately. Here it is illustrated with 40 and 20 mg of Nolva, but could easily be run with 150 and 100 mg of clomid respectively. This was a good stack to demonstrate the use of HCG (which is injectable. Oh the irony). At least one of the uses. HCG keeps the size of your nuts up even after HPTA is shut down by your roids. That facilitates post-cycle recovery. Since HCG itself can cause negative feedback it needs to be discontinued the week before you come off or it will do the opposite of what it is intended to do. NEVER run HCG longer than Nolva or clomid. One should take a long break off any type of 17-alpha-alkylated steroids after this cycle as the liver will have taken a severe beating. That's the downside of being scared of needles.
Click to expand...



decent info, but he's AFRAID OF NEEDLES so there WON'T be any HCG for him...............

I still think he's better off NOT doing a cycle............(I'm basing this on experiences I've viewed with my own eyes, so please excuse me if I don't buy into much of what you wrote.

IMHO - Oral-Only cycles are nothing short of "Bush League"
 
I agree 100% I have used them as a kick start but never alone..I dont take any credit for any of the previous post except for the first line..all the rest is cut and pasted..
 
dawg4life said:
I agree 100% I have used them as a kick start but never alone..I dont take any credit for any of the previous post except for the first line..all the rest is cut and pasted..
Click to expand...

I know, you are just trying to help like the rest of us............

It's alllll-gooood............
:coffee:
 
dawg4life said:
Got this off bb.com hope it helps some

All Oral Cycle

Week Dianabol Winstrol/Stromba Anavar HCG & Nolva
1 30-40 mg/day
2 30-40 mg/day
3 30-40 mg/day 25-50 mg every day
4 30-40 mg/day 25-50 mg every day 5000 IU/week HCG
5 30-40 mg/day 25-50 mg every day 5000 IU/week HCG
6 30-40 mg/day 25-50 mg every day 30-40 mg/day 5000 IU/week HCG
7 25-50 mg every day 30-40 mg/day 5000 IU/week HCG
8 25-50 mg every day 30-40 mg/day
9 40 mg/day Nolva
10 20 mg/day Nolva
11 20 mg/day Nolva


I'm a member at several online steroid boards and you always hear the vets say: "Don't use only orals, your gains won't last". Here's a newsflash: the roids you take orally are no different from the ones you inject. Naturally I need to add here that you will get better gains with injectables. The half-life is longer, they can be used longer because they aren't so toxic, they can be used in higher doses and the effects stay for a while after a cycle (which could account for the belief that gains on orals disappear). But I'd like to know where the belief that an oral only stack can't offer good gains originated? A lot of bodybuilders in the 60's and 70's were basically living off dianabol. The key to keeping gains on any stack is facilitating the return of natural test after a stack and keeping calories high in your diet no matter what.

The problem of an oral only stack is that its limited in time. 6-8 weeks at best. Meaning multiple stacks are needed where less stacks would be needed with injectables. An oral only stack is hard to set up because you have no real base compounds either. This is one I sweated out after much thinking for all you wimps that can't take a needle. Because anavar and winny block the aromatisation off d-bol, there isn't much post-cycle estrogen so the use of clomid/Nolva afterwards is limited but still advised. It should be started immediately after the cycle is over. With lon-acting injectables one can usually wait 1.5 to 2 weeks after last shot to start post-cycle therapy and then still there is a certain level of androgens in the body. With the orals, most of the androgen will be cleared in 1-2 days tops. So Clomid/Nolva therapy needs to start immediately. Here it is illustrated with 40 and 20 mg of Nolva, but could easily be run with 150 and 100 mg of clomid respectively. This was a good stack to demonstrate the use of HCG (which is injectable. Oh the irony). At least one of the uses. HCG keeps the size of your nuts up even after HPTA is shut down by your roids. That facilitates post-cycle recovery. Since HCG itself can cause negative feedback it needs to be discontinued the week before you come off or it will do the opposite of what it is intended to do. NEVER run HCG longer than Nolva or clomid. One should take a long break off any type of 17-alpha-alkylated steroids after this cycle as the liver will have taken a severe beating. That's the downside of being scared of needles.
Click to expand...


Bro, great post. But seriously, if this guy's resources are limited to 2 orals-I highly doubt he's gonna be able to come up with ancilliaries for PCT. If scoring wasn't a problem he'd save the orals for another cycle and use injectable test only for a cycle now like we recommended. Your explanation above was spot on-but for newbies it's like trying to understand calculus when they haven't even studied prep math yet.

I give you an "A" for effort, but after you start getting carpal tunnel from typing so much shit that newbies ignore you're gonna be bummin. It's easier to flame them into the exile of internet AS research. Hopefully they'll gain some knowledge on their own so they can return to the board with their own educated opinions to contribute. Until then, they're taking up space by having others do their homework for them.

Keep in mind that I've been in this game since before the internet, and before there were any books published on the subject of AS. We had to rely on word of mouth advice from self proclaimed gurus that may or may not have known WTF they were talking about. So I have no pity for the guys here that aren't willing to do their own research online to find out the basics.
 
I know nothing about injectibles. Getting anything i want... is not the problem. So... I will be getting something to inject. I wont waist your time on asking what to get... ill research it on my own then.

I have learned alot about Dianabol... and how everyone used to LIVE on it in the 60's and 70's, and for the most part did not have any problems.

I wanted to take Windstrol to to keep off some of the "Fat" while using Dianabol. I was only going to do a "KICK START." cycle... while im off researching what to inject and how much.

Guess I should have mentioned that before. From all your post... it seems like my stack wont kill me... but that i wont keep the gains either... ok... i learned... thanks.
 
rsoschmidt said:
I wanted to take Windstrol to to keep off some of the "Fat" while using Dianabol. I was only going to do a "KICK START." cycle... while im off researching what to inject and how much.

Guess I should have mentioned that before. From all your post... it seems like my stack wont kill me... but that i wont keep the gains either... ok... i learned... thanks.
Click to expand...

Before you go, - who are you kidding...........

There is NO SUCH THING as a "kickstart-cycle"

You can kickstart A cycle with an oral (1), but you don't take orals, then add an injectable later.................
 
I didnt mean KICK START CYCLE... i just ment to kick start.... or maybe EASE.... into steriods...

Im not kidding anyone... or trying to pretend that I know more than I do. I dont know.... well... hardly anything... i was looking for advice... not sarcasim.
 
rsoschmidt said:
I didnt mean KICK START CYCLE... i just ment to kick start.... or maybe EASE.... into steriods...

Im not kidding anyone... or trying to pretend that I know more than I do. I dont know.... well... hardly anything... i was looking for advice... not sarcasim.
Click to expand...


I think you got WAY more advice than sarcasm, but at least you can admit you know almost "nothing", which means you should study the HELL out of AAS before you ever THINK about fooling around with these powerful hormones.

I would HATE to see ANYONE get fuct up.........

Good luck............
 
Do yourself a favor and take a couple of injsections of sustanon and deca for 6-8 weeks and you'll know why people are telling you not to do an oral only cycle. Orals should be used as a supplement to your injectible therapy. If used effectively (through proper traing and diet) and you can achieve exceptional results. If you only do one drug at a time you will not get too many quality gains but if you combine some of the injectibles with dbol (6wks) you will keep the gains, esp deca/test. Start with that, you can get fancy later. If you think the era of the "breakfast of champions" was only dbol I can tell you that certainly it was the era of deca shots and test injections also. Read up on cyles and pick the best for you o don't fuck with it
 
u know what guys .. even if someone does an oral only cycle and gains 6 lbs or so HEY>>> it is still 6 lbs thsy never would have gained. this is a steroid board everyone should stop bieng so quick to shoot everyone down. I think we all know how good of a job Arni did with 75% of his as being d-bol..... lets not forget that
 
My first cycle was 25mg/day of d-bol (reforvit) for 6 weeks. I think a lot of the overseas web sites that sell gear hype up the oral gear as kind of a gate-way drug getting people into steroids. It worked for me because after that first cycle, I decided I needed to inject. Anyway, here's my experience:

After 3 weeks on d-bol only my lidibo went to shit. I gained crazy strength on the cycle and about 10 lbs. After the 6 weeks I ended the d-bol and did nothing for PCT; lost all of the weight but kept about 80% of the strength gain. Libido came back 3 weeks after the cycle was over.

After spending $250 for 6 weeks with no sex drive and keeping none of the mass, I decided it was time to go the injectible route. The 2nd cycle was test/deca. I was nervous as hell before the first injection but afterward I was amazed at how easy it was. Haven't done a cycle without testosterone since.

Unfortunately I only ran the 2nd cycle for 6 weeks (much too short for deca) so the net gain there was only 5 lbs. Eventually I learned how to run a decent cycle and that's the point.

Waist your money and learn the hard way if you must. But you'll be way ahead of the game if you take the advice of the people with years of experience.
 
rsoschmidt said:
I didnt mean KICK START CYCLE... i just ment to kick start.... or maybe EASE.... into steriods...

Im not kidding anyone... or trying to pretend that I know more than I do. I dont know.... well... hardly anything... i was looking for advice... not sarcasim.
Click to expand...

Hey rsoschmidt - first, you can always bank on any advice our resident freelance gynocologist offers up. I've benefited greatly off of his post (although he probably doesn't know it). Second, the best cycle you could be on right now would be the learning cycle. I'd start with becoming the best expert you can on PCT, then work backwards. Really dive into the science of AAS and you'll be amazed - you'll also have a better understanding of what works why and how. Third, I did an Anavar/D-bol cycle way back in the mid 80's - sure it works, but all depends on your goals/funds/physiology.

Most importanly, read every sticky on EF!

Enjoy the trip! :coffee:
 
winnie and dbol do not work that well together IMHO i would prefer to use them seperate with dbol on a bulker and winnie a cutter

oh and i should mention to add an injectable
 
Thank you for all your help. Im going to do this cycle for 6 weeks... then stay off it.

What do you think I should do after that? Injection wise... and how much...
 
rsoschmidt said:
Thank you for all your help. Im going to do this cycle for 6 weeks... then stay off it.

What do you think I should do after that? Injection wise... and how much...
Click to expand...


PCT...check your PM's. Cheers :coffee:
 
mlmdpump said:
PCT...check your PM's. Cheers :coffee:
Click to expand...


Gee - when he's done with this cycle and is looking for Injectables, he can just "hit you up with a PM"?

You actually would "encourage" someone to do a shit-assed 6-weeker just to hook him up with some Inj. in the future????

This thread is about as "careless" as they come........................
 
a creed said:
Gee - when he's done with this cycle and is looking for Injectables, he can just "hit you up with a PM"?

You actually would "encourage" someone to do a shit-assed 6-weeker just to hook him up with some Inj. in the future????

This thread is about as "careless" as they come........................
Click to expand...

Quite the opposite Creed - I discouraged him, told him he needs to forget his "orals only" cycle, educate himself on PCT then work backwards from there...I just thought I'd keep my lecture out of the post since it's gone on long enough. Whether he listens to what I (or anyone else) has to say is up to him. Trust me, I'm not a "careless" person...nor am I a source - just trying to steer the dude in the right direction. Cheers :coffee:
 
rsoschmidt said:
Thank you for all your help. Im going to do this cycle for 6 weeks... then stay off it.

What do you think I should do after that? Injection wise... and how much...
Click to expand...


Awesome 6 week plan. You are incredibly stupid for ignoring the advice here and doing your own thing. Whoever scored you your gear might as well have handed a loaded gun to a 6 yr old. I love how that you think you are the one guy that will benefit from an oral only cycle. The next time you're about to step off of a cliff, I'll be sure to warn you. That way I know for sure you'll get a running start before you swan dive off of that fucker.
 
Wax-on said:
I understand that you may be a veteran in this game however, you must realise that some people regardless of personal opinions of others are going to do orals only. People have their reasons. Aka detection times...Although I have been reading over this forum for a number of years, with all the information provided from fellow brothers I too am still considering an oral only stack.
As well as pointing the 'newbies' in the right direction, also try to answer their questions too :artist:
Click to expand...

Hey dickwad, thats why there is a sticky at the top that says for newbies to read b4 posting. That way they can at least have some clue as to what is going on. If you, or they, are too damn sorry to read and research a little then fuck you. I'm not sharing any info until you/they have proved they know what to do with it.
 
Last edited:
marvelous54 said:
Hey dickwad, thats why their is a sticky at the top that says for newbies to read b4 posting. That way they can at least have some clue as to what is going on. If you, or they, are too damn sorry to read and research a little then fuck you. I'm not sharing any info until they have proved they know what to do with it.
Click to expand...


Amen to that. Ugoboy!
 
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