Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Why does everyone like this ketogenic diet bullshit? Do you really think it's that effective? Sure, you lose a ton of weight, but so much of it is water loss. Also, doesn't anyone revere Arnold like a god anymore? In his encyclopoedia he explicitly states that one should strive to AVOID a state of ketosis. Now, I'm not saying that the keto-diet is wothless or anything, don't get me wrong, but couldn't you do the same thing and have better workouts if you lowered your carbs just enough to lose weight, but stop just short of ketosis?
Why Keto?
- Thread starter Grizzly
- Start date
diamonddiceclay
New member
keto diet spares muscle better than any other weight loss diet
HumanShell
New member
It will turn to muscle for fuel. That's why you eat a ton of protein and fat. Then, it burns the fat, with a little protein...
sixtythirtyten
New member
keto diet is a horrible diet. I have been saying this from the first day I heard about it. You will lose muscle unless you use some type of test. Think about it, is a diet that tells you to eat bacon, butter and any other type of bad fat really good for you. Sure, I'm sure that you are thinking well what if I just ate healthy fats like flax or something. The problem is that you are eventually going to have to go back to a normal diet, once you do this your body will be so used to using fat for fuel that it will start storing carbs very easily as fat. That is why the 60% carbs, 30% protein 10% fat diet is the best. You are telling your body to use carbs for fuel, use protein to build muscle, and the fat will be used to provide building blocks for other substances and pad vital organ organ structures(and whatever else fat does). Fat does not break down as easily as carbs and also have over twice the calories, so our body does not need a lot of fat. Also, it is impossible to build muscle naturally if there is no insulin present, so you cannot gain muscle while on keto. And last thing is that what is the point of putting on muscle and then watching it shrink away because of glycogen and potassium depletion. Remember there is good water and there is bad water, good water is inside muscles, bad water is underneith skin from too much salt.
big calvin
New member
sixtythirtyten said:
where do i start.....hmm...yes a low carb diet healthy and in fact healther then your 60/30/10 diet.
if u know anything about low carbs u know that u just dont switch from eating less then 20g of carbs a day to 400g! u slowlly add in carbs per day or week. do u all of a sudden stop 1g of test a week at 8 weeks? or slowlly start cutting back? i thought so.
U CAN GAIN MUSCLE ON A KETO DIET!
big calvin
New member
sixtythirtyten said:
where do i start.....hmm...yes a low carb diet healthy and in fact healther then your 60/30/10 diet.
if u know anything about low carbs u know that u just dont switch from eating less then 20g of carbs a day to 400g! u slowlly add in carbs per day or week. do u all of a sudden stop 1g of test a week at 8 weeks? or slowlly start cutting back? i thought so.
U CAN GAIN MUSCLE ON A KETO DIET! when u carb up many people can gain or maintain ther LBM. the anabolic diet i think would be a very good diet for increasing muscle while keeping your bodyfat low!
theres good water and bad water? do u mean tap water vs figi water? lol... bro sorry couldnt resisnt...thats why u carbup. so u rush carbs,water,creatine,glutamine, protein in your muscles!
man do some research before bashing a diet u know nothing about.
WOW!!! The 60lbs i've lost MUST be all water weight then.
<Clap Clap Clap> No offense, but you sound kinda ignorant.
1) There has NEVER been a study that shows that a Diet high in fat increases your risk of heart disease, and raises cholesteral. Quite contrary, the only diet that proves the statement above is a diet high in carbs AND fat.
2) Study after study has taken 2 test groups. One whose diet consists of a lean towards carbs, the other towards fat. The group taking in the fat could cycle a good 20 minutes longer (average)
3) A Lipid provides more energy per molecule than a carb.
4) To say that your body HAS to have carbs for energy shows that there needs to be a return to high school freshman biology
Hell, alcohol burns faster than a carb, so i guess we should all drink for energy.
5) Gosh, for such an unhealthy diet, its amazing how my weight has gone down, my skin texture has improved, my blood pressure and cholesterol are down, and i have more energy than i've ever had before. Yeah, my cholesteral definately shows that i'm on my way to a heart attack with my 300 grams of fat a day <sarcasim>
6) 95% of people who lose weight on Atkins keep it off because they DON'T return to an old way of eating due to the fact that their new diet is more enjoyable. If the 400 grams of carbs/day is what made them fat in the first place, so why the hell would ANYONE go back to an old way of eating?
Only 3-5% of people who loose weight on a low fat diet don't gain it back. My mother and countless relatives are perfect examples. All who only have 10lbs or so to lose who take the weight off by christmas, only to have it back on by the next year's holiday season.
7) Most people that go on a Keto diet eat more vegetables than they used to because thats their source of their low level of carbs. I went from eating pasta, pizza, Subway, etc. To eating chicken, beef, salad, broccoli, okra, green beans, etc. For most of the average population (i.e. don't work out, etc) going on a Keto diet calls them to eat much more healthy than they used to.
8) The only time your body uses muscle for energy is when is has run out of its sources for fuel (once again Freshman Biology). The first being carbs, the second being fat. Ok, actually, to be technical, alcohol would be first, then carbs, then fat in order of the speed in which they are burned.
The only time your body will burn off excess muscle is when your body is fasting, or if your eating a low carb/low fat diet.
9) You go up to the 20,000 people who have lost weight on Atkins, those who are diabetic and no longer need insulin. Those who have leveled their blood sugar and lowered their cholesteral, and you tell them that they are unhealthy and see what their response is. Please ignore their laughter, its nothing personal
10) I appologize for sounding harsh, but the reality of the situation is that this country has been fed BS for the past 50 years. America did not grow overweight and start seeing cases of heart disease and cancer until after we started increasing sugar and processed food/cola intake, and decrease our intake of beef, butter, and the like. Americans went from consuming a handful of sugar a year to over 12lbs/year now. America is the most health-concious, and the most overweight now, more than ever. Why do you think that is?
11) The FACT is that i eat chicken wings fried in oil twice a week, marinated steak dipped in mayo, bacon, eggs, sausage cooked in butter, salad twice a day, okra, green beans, all vegetables that fit into the 10% carb category, and i am HEALTHY. Scales and doctors reports do not lie. Facts are facts.
<Clap Clap Clap> No offense, but you sound kinda ignorant.
1) There has NEVER been a study that shows that a Diet high in fat increases your risk of heart disease, and raises cholesteral. Quite contrary, the only diet that proves the statement above is a diet high in carbs AND fat.
2) Study after study has taken 2 test groups. One whose diet consists of a lean towards carbs, the other towards fat. The group taking in the fat could cycle a good 20 minutes longer (average)
3) A Lipid provides more energy per molecule than a carb.
4) To say that your body HAS to have carbs for energy shows that there needs to be a return to high school freshman biology
Hell, alcohol burns faster than a carb, so i guess we should all drink for energy.5) Gosh, for such an unhealthy diet, its amazing how my weight has gone down, my skin texture has improved, my blood pressure and cholesterol are down, and i have more energy than i've ever had before. Yeah, my cholesteral definately shows that i'm on my way to a heart attack with my 300 grams of fat a day <sarcasim>
6) 95% of people who lose weight on Atkins keep it off because they DON'T return to an old way of eating due to the fact that their new diet is more enjoyable. If the 400 grams of carbs/day is what made them fat in the first place, so why the hell would ANYONE go back to an old way of eating?
Only 3-5% of people who loose weight on a low fat diet don't gain it back. My mother and countless relatives are perfect examples. All who only have 10lbs or so to lose who take the weight off by christmas, only to have it back on by the next year's holiday season.
7) Most people that go on a Keto diet eat more vegetables than they used to because thats their source of their low level of carbs. I went from eating pasta, pizza, Subway, etc. To eating chicken, beef, salad, broccoli, okra, green beans, etc. For most of the average population (i.e. don't work out, etc) going on a Keto diet calls them to eat much more healthy than they used to.
8) The only time your body uses muscle for energy is when is has run out of its sources for fuel (once again Freshman Biology). The first being carbs, the second being fat. Ok, actually, to be technical, alcohol would be first, then carbs, then fat in order of the speed in which they are burned.
The only time your body will burn off excess muscle is when your body is fasting, or if your eating a low carb/low fat diet.
9) You go up to the 20,000 people who have lost weight on Atkins, those who are diabetic and no longer need insulin. Those who have leveled their blood sugar and lowered their cholesteral, and you tell them that they are unhealthy and see what their response is. Please ignore their laughter, its nothing personal
10) I appologize for sounding harsh, but the reality of the situation is that this country has been fed BS for the past 50 years. America did not grow overweight and start seeing cases of heart disease and cancer until after we started increasing sugar and processed food/cola intake, and decrease our intake of beef, butter, and the like. Americans went from consuming a handful of sugar a year to over 12lbs/year now. America is the most health-concious, and the most overweight now, more than ever. Why do you think that is?
11) The FACT is that i eat chicken wings fried in oil twice a week, marinated steak dipped in mayo, bacon, eggs, sausage cooked in butter, salad twice a day, okra, green beans, all vegetables that fit into the 10% carb category, and i am HEALTHY. Scales and doctors reports do not lie. Facts are facts.
sixtythirtyten
New member
first off, you are saying that a diet high in sat. fat does not clog arteries and cause heart disease?
second thing, when I say carbs I do not mean candy, i mean rice and oats.
and the problem with people eating carbs as you have mentioned is that people either eat too much or not enough protein with it, that is the problem.
third thing, www.musclenow.com, this will explain what I am trying to say in a little more detail.( if you buy the book)- no I am not trying to promote this book or anything it's just that this is the only website I have found on bb who has got the bb diet right.
fourth thing, I knew I wasn't going to get support on this board. But it doesn't make a difference to me I am just tryin to help people get big and cut , and vascular. peace
second thing, when I say carbs I do not mean candy, i mean rice and oats.
and the problem with people eating carbs as you have mentioned is that people either eat too much or not enough protein with it, that is the problem.
third thing, www.musclenow.com, this will explain what I am trying to say in a little more detail.( if you buy the book)- no I am not trying to promote this book or anything it's just that this is the only website I have found on bb who has got the bb diet right.
fourth thing, I knew I wasn't going to get support on this board. But it doesn't make a difference to me I am just tryin to help people get big and cut , and vascular. peace
Your brain NEEDS glucose; it's the brain's primary energy source. Granted you can get some glucose from gluconeogensis in the liver and kidneys, but you CAN'T get enough from gluconeogenesis alone. But "what about Lipolysis?" you say. Well lypolysis will indeed provide energy and reduce glucose catabolism by glucose sparing, but your body still needs glucose for use in the CNS and PNS. And of course there's always the concern that your body will turn to glycogen in your muscle tissue and liver (glycogenolysis).
Maybe there does need to be a return to highschool freshman biology...
Maybe there does need to be a return to highschool freshman biology...
It's not my style to flame anyone so I won't start now. But I have to say (coming from a similar background to KWKSLVR I think) that it is obvious to me that the majority of Americans have the shit-iest diet on earth and can't do WORSE than Atkins/ CKD diet. This does not mean that carbs from low GI/low insulogenic carbs diet are bad for ya. It only means that most of the overweight/obese people need to cut the processed crap out of their diet. This includes highly processed meat products as well as most bread/pasta etc......and processed (canned) fruits and veggies (and sweet tasting stuff such as Aspertame....). Obviously some folks do well on a keto diet. I will put forward a proposition that the people that do best on a keto diet are the ones that were most out-of-control/overweight on their previous diet(s). I know for a certainty that in the world of bodybuilding the MAJORITY of competitors do not use a keto diet to lose fat and maintain LBM (with or without AAS). I will put my moderate carb/low fat/ high protein diet photos up against anyone who has done low carb high fat to judge for themselves (NB My photos would be a high carb/modrat protein/low fat bulking diet and high protein/moderate carb/low fat cutting diet).
Ok, lets us a little common sense here. If one's body is effectively burning over 200 grams of fat a day, plus enough stored fat to shed off excess weight, then where is all of this newly stored fat thats being converted to Cholesterol? HOW are your arteries being clogged IF YOUR BODY ISN'T STORING FAT?
When i am talking about sugar, i too am talking about oats, grains, rice, etc. Its not like the people in this country were eating Grits every morning in the early 1900's. Newsflash, a carbohydrate gets broken into a sugar. Of course its not the same as eating a spoonful of sugar, but eating a potatoe can, and will cause a spike in blood sugar/insulin levels. Most Americans have a HORRIBLE diet that sends these levels completely out of control.
Next, a keto diet is not designed for body builders. Its designed for people who need to loose weight. A Keto diet, and eating a level of carbs thats not in excess are 2 seperate things.
If one takes in 300 grams of carbs and 30 grams of fat a day, yet his body can only process 150 grams of carbs, then theres 150 grams left, plus 30 grams of fat that all get stored.
A Keto diet is successful because so many people have a carbohydrate intollerence. Their body's can break down lipids and protein, but there is something about the genetic makeup that inhibits so many people from processing carbohydrates. Think of it as a 2 triangles trying to make a square. If you have been eating 300 grams of carbs a day your whole life (along with other deficencies), then you have been eating a non-balanced diet, or, 1 triangle. The first few stages of Atkins are meant to be corrective, or the other triangle. Eating a so-called "balanced" diet may be healthy, but it is NOT CORRECTIVE. I'm not saying that Atkins is NOT healthy, but i am saying that it is unbalanced which is good.
On glucose. Your body uses 2 things as sources of energy. The primary source is glucose, your 100% correct N-10-CITY. Ketones are the second. As recent study's have shown, your brain uses Ketones as well as Glucose. I believe it as well. My energy, and my ability to retain information has increased since i've been on Atkins. My grades have gone up, and i'm studying less, and i have more energy than before.
All being in Ketosis/Lypolysis (Lypolysis means "the process of dissolving fat") means is that you are burning your fat metabolically. It breaks down into glycerol and free fatty acids, which in turn break down into pairings of two-carbon compounds called "ketone bodies" leaving a newer fatty acid, shorter in chain length by the two-carbon fragment that entered the metabolic pool to be used as fuel. This is the only metabolic pathway for fat breakdown, or once again, lypolysis. Ketosis is the SAME process that allows animals to hybernate and use their own stored fat for energy. It is natural, and your body is designed to use its own fat for energy if you will let it by cutting down carbs thus enabling your fat mobilizers to do their jobs.
I hope i've been clear on the points that i have made. If anything is unclear, let me know and i'll address them to thebest of my knowledge.
When i am talking about sugar, i too am talking about oats, grains, rice, etc. Its not like the people in this country were eating Grits every morning in the early 1900's. Newsflash, a carbohydrate gets broken into a sugar. Of course its not the same as eating a spoonful of sugar, but eating a potatoe can, and will cause a spike in blood sugar/insulin levels. Most Americans have a HORRIBLE diet that sends these levels completely out of control.
Next, a keto diet is not designed for body builders. Its designed for people who need to loose weight. A Keto diet, and eating a level of carbs thats not in excess are 2 seperate things.
If one takes in 300 grams of carbs and 30 grams of fat a day, yet his body can only process 150 grams of carbs, then theres 150 grams left, plus 30 grams of fat that all get stored.
A Keto diet is successful because so many people have a carbohydrate intollerence. Their body's can break down lipids and protein, but there is something about the genetic makeup that inhibits so many people from processing carbohydrates. Think of it as a 2 triangles trying to make a square. If you have been eating 300 grams of carbs a day your whole life (along with other deficencies), then you have been eating a non-balanced diet, or, 1 triangle. The first few stages of Atkins are meant to be corrective, or the other triangle. Eating a so-called "balanced" diet may be healthy, but it is NOT CORRECTIVE. I'm not saying that Atkins is NOT healthy, but i am saying that it is unbalanced which is good.
On glucose. Your body uses 2 things as sources of energy. The primary source is glucose, your 100% correct N-10-CITY. Ketones are the second. As recent study's have shown, your brain uses Ketones as well as Glucose. I believe it as well. My energy, and my ability to retain information has increased since i've been on Atkins. My grades have gone up, and i'm studying less, and i have more energy than before.
All being in Ketosis/Lypolysis (Lypolysis means "the process of dissolving fat") means is that you are burning your fat metabolically. It breaks down into glycerol and free fatty acids, which in turn break down into pairings of two-carbon compounds called "ketone bodies" leaving a newer fatty acid, shorter in chain length by the two-carbon fragment that entered the metabolic pool to be used as fuel. This is the only metabolic pathway for fat breakdown, or once again, lypolysis. Ketosis is the SAME process that allows animals to hybernate and use their own stored fat for energy. It is natural, and your body is designed to use its own fat for energy if you will let it by cutting down carbs thus enabling your fat mobilizers to do their jobs.
I hope i've been clear on the points that i have made. If anything is unclear, let me know and i'll address them to thebest of my knowledge.
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"Ok, lets us a little common sense here. If one's body is effectively burning over 200 grams of fat a day, plus enough stored fat to shed off excess weight, then where is all of this newly stored fat thats being converted to Cholesterol? HOW are your arteries being clogged IF YOUR BODY ISN'T STORING FAT?"
Correct on any type of diet. If you take in less calories than you burn and adequate protein then you will lose fat.
" Most Americans have a HORRIBLE diet that sends these levels completely out of control. "
Also correct. However the average American diet doesn't get the majority of it's carbs from unsalted, low fat whole grains and vegetables (boy is THAT a mild understatement!)
"Next, a keto diet is not designed for body builders. Its designed for people who need to loose weight. A Keto diet, and eating a level of carbs thats not in excess are 2 seperate things."
On this one we agree 100%. I am a bodybuilder
"If one takes in 300 grams of carbs and 30 grams of fat a day, yet his body can only process 150 grams of carbs, then theres 150 grams left, plus 30 grams of fat that all get stored. "
Correcto mundo yet again. If you take in MORE CALORIES than you burn then you will gain mass of some sort.
"A Keto diet is successful because so many people have a carbohydrate intollerence. Their body's can break down lipids and protein, but there is something about the genetic makeup that inhibits so many people from processing carbohydrates."
Now you're being silly. If your body can't process carbs then they would contribute nothing to your obesity problem, much like fiber (which is a carbohydrate that your body can't process).
"I'm not saying that Atkins is NOT healthy, but i am saying that it is unbalanced which is good. "
Hmmmmmm so I stand by my original proposition that an Atkins type diet is probably better than NO diet for your average American. This does not make it OPTIMAL for muscle gain or fat loss if you have some self control over your carb intake.
" As recent study's have shown, your brain uses Ketones as well as Glucose. I believe it as well. My energy, and my ability to retain information has increased since i've been on Atkins. My grades have gone up, and i'm studying less, and i have more energy than before. "
Yes your brain can use ketones to a certain extent, but it also has an absolute requirement for glucose to function properly. It is well documented (mainly from epileptic children who's brains are not 'normal' to begin with) that a well designed ketogenic diet will usually provide enough glucose via gluconeogenesis of proteins and glycerol. If your brain function has improved on a keto diet then you may have been borderline or undiagnosed insulin insensitive. Even taking into account genetic predispositions this indicates a previously shitty diet (my original proposition).
"All being in Ketosis/Lypolysis (Lypolysis means "the process of dissolving fat") means is that you are burning your fat metabolically. It breaks down into glycerol and free fatty acids, which in turn break down into pairings of two-carbon compounds called "ketone bodies" leaving a newer fatty acid, shorter in chain length by the two-carbon fragment that entered the metabolic pool to be used as fuel. This is the only metabolic pathway for fat breakdown, or once again, lypolysis."
This is true all the time. Ketosis is not required. I will say that again in simple terms: Lipolysis AND lipogenesis occurs all the time (even on a keto diet). It's the overall balance of lipolysis to lipogenesis that determines whether or not you lose fat. This comes down mostly to calories in must be less than calories out.
"I hope i've been clear on the points that i have made. If anything is unclear, let me know and i'll address them to thebest of my knowledge."
You have been perfectly clear but still have not answered the original question which was " couldn't you do the same thing and have better workouts if you lowered your carbs just enough to lose weight, but stop just short of ketosis?"
Which is what bodybuilders have been doing successfully for decades. This is not saying that a keto diet (in the form of CKD) will not be successful for some bodybuilders, and it's certainly not saying that an Atkin's type diet isn't successful as a last resort for morbidly obese people who are more than likely insulin resistant anyway (due to that shitty diet/genetic thing). I have thrived for 42 years on a high carbs/moderate protein/low fat diet. My BP/HDL/LDL/glucose tolerance etc.... are perfect. So maybe I've got good genetics but if you've met my family.........Father died of heart failure (age 52 and was morbidly obese all of his life). My grandfather died of complications from type 2 diabetes. My mother is also now type 2 diabetic. Everyone (and I really mean everyone) in my family is overweight or obese. The only difference between me and the rest of my family is
1) I exercise regularly (including weight training, hiking, biking, rock climbing); and
2) I eat a basically vegan diet which is high in unprocessed carbohydrates, moderate in protein and low in fat.
And surprise surprise the American Heart Foundation recommends a similar diet based on lots of demographic data. The only problem with the American diet is that no one actually follows those guidelines! They think that carbs are interchangeable (a carb is a carb and a fat is a fat and a protein is a protein mentality)
I will recap some advice (based on demographis so you gotta take it with a grain of salt) from a very good conference I recently attended:
Eat 6+ servings of whole unprocessed grains/nuts and legumes each day
Eat 10 servings of fruits and vegetables each day
Make sure those fruits and veggies are FRESH, LOCALLY GROWN and IN SEASON where you live.
Keep sodium intake balanced with other minerals.
After you've eaten all of the above then eat anything else your little heart desires.
Pretty simple recipe to raise your children on don't ya think?
Correct on any type of diet. If you take in less calories than you burn and adequate protein then you will lose fat.
" Most Americans have a HORRIBLE diet that sends these levels completely out of control. "
Also correct. However the average American diet doesn't get the majority of it's carbs from unsalted, low fat whole grains and vegetables (boy is THAT a mild understatement!)
"Next, a keto diet is not designed for body builders. Its designed for people who need to loose weight. A Keto diet, and eating a level of carbs thats not in excess are 2 seperate things."
On this one we agree 100%. I am a bodybuilder
"If one takes in 300 grams of carbs and 30 grams of fat a day, yet his body can only process 150 grams of carbs, then theres 150 grams left, plus 30 grams of fat that all get stored. "
Correcto mundo yet again. If you take in MORE CALORIES than you burn then you will gain mass of some sort.
"A Keto diet is successful because so many people have a carbohydrate intollerence. Their body's can break down lipids and protein, but there is something about the genetic makeup that inhibits so many people from processing carbohydrates."
Now you're being silly. If your body can't process carbs then they would contribute nothing to your obesity problem, much like fiber (which is a carbohydrate that your body can't process).
"I'm not saying that Atkins is NOT healthy, but i am saying that it is unbalanced which is good. "
Hmmmmmm so I stand by my original proposition that an Atkins type diet is probably better than NO diet for your average American. This does not make it OPTIMAL for muscle gain or fat loss if you have some self control over your carb intake.
" As recent study's have shown, your brain uses Ketones as well as Glucose. I believe it as well. My energy, and my ability to retain information has increased since i've been on Atkins. My grades have gone up, and i'm studying less, and i have more energy than before. "
Yes your brain can use ketones to a certain extent, but it also has an absolute requirement for glucose to function properly. It is well documented (mainly from epileptic children who's brains are not 'normal' to begin with) that a well designed ketogenic diet will usually provide enough glucose via gluconeogenesis of proteins and glycerol. If your brain function has improved on a keto diet then you may have been borderline or undiagnosed insulin insensitive. Even taking into account genetic predispositions this indicates a previously shitty diet (my original proposition).
"All being in Ketosis/Lypolysis (Lypolysis means "the process of dissolving fat") means is that you are burning your fat metabolically. It breaks down into glycerol and free fatty acids, which in turn break down into pairings of two-carbon compounds called "ketone bodies" leaving a newer fatty acid, shorter in chain length by the two-carbon fragment that entered the metabolic pool to be used as fuel. This is the only metabolic pathway for fat breakdown, or once again, lypolysis."
This is true all the time. Ketosis is not required. I will say that again in simple terms: Lipolysis AND lipogenesis occurs all the time (even on a keto diet). It's the overall balance of lipolysis to lipogenesis that determines whether or not you lose fat. This comes down mostly to calories in must be less than calories out.
"I hope i've been clear on the points that i have made. If anything is unclear, let me know and i'll address them to thebest of my knowledge."
You have been perfectly clear but still have not answered the original question which was " couldn't you do the same thing and have better workouts if you lowered your carbs just enough to lose weight, but stop just short of ketosis?"
Which is what bodybuilders have been doing successfully for decades. This is not saying that a keto diet (in the form of CKD) will not be successful for some bodybuilders, and it's certainly not saying that an Atkin's type diet isn't successful as a last resort for morbidly obese people who are more than likely insulin resistant anyway (due to that shitty diet/genetic thing). I have thrived for 42 years on a high carbs/moderate protein/low fat diet. My BP/HDL/LDL/glucose tolerance etc.... are perfect. So maybe I've got good genetics but if you've met my family.........Father died of heart failure (age 52 and was morbidly obese all of his life). My grandfather died of complications from type 2 diabetes. My mother is also now type 2 diabetic. Everyone (and I really mean everyone) in my family is overweight or obese. The only difference between me and the rest of my family is
1) I exercise regularly (including weight training, hiking, biking, rock climbing); and
2) I eat a basically vegan diet which is high in unprocessed carbohydrates, moderate in protein and low in fat.
And surprise surprise the American Heart Foundation recommends a similar diet based on lots of demographic data. The only problem with the American diet is that no one actually follows those guidelines! They think that carbs are interchangeable (a carb is a carb and a fat is a fat and a protein is a protein mentality)
I will recap some advice (based on demographis so you gotta take it with a grain of salt) from a very good conference I recently attended:
Eat 6+ servings of whole unprocessed grains/nuts and legumes each day
Eat 10 servings of fruits and vegetables each day
Make sure those fruits and veggies are FRESH, LOCALLY GROWN and IN SEASON where you live.
Keep sodium intake balanced with other minerals.
After you've eaten all of the above then eat anything else your little heart desires.
Pretty simple recipe to raise your children on don't ya think?
Cackerot69
New member
"keto diet is a horrible diet. I have been saying this from the first day I heard about it. You will lose muscle unless you use some type of test."
Have you used the diet? This statement is completely retarded.
"Think about it, is a diet that tells you to eat bacon, butter and any other type of bad fat really good for you"
Not really. For short periods of time, it won't hurt. I wouldn't tell anyone to use a ketogenic diet exclusively, but for losing fat it can't be beat IMO. BTW, do you know what hormone causes tryglyceride synthesis the most? Insulin. You know what is responsible for burning fat rather than storing it? Glucagon. Insulin is released from carbs, glucagon is released from the absence of carbs.
"Sure, I'm sure that you are thinking well what if I just ate healthy fats like flax or something."
No I'm not.
"The problem is that you are eventually going to have to go back to a normal diet, once you do this your body will be so used to using fat for fuel that it will start storing carbs very easily as fat. That is why the 60% carbs, 30% protein 10% fat diet is the best. You are telling your body to use carbs for fuel, use protein to build muscle, and the fat will be used to provide building blocks for other substances and pad vital organ organ structures(and whatever else fat does)."
Your body can get energy from a ton of places. If you provide it with fat, it will use fat. If you provide it with carbs, it will use them. The body has a certain capacity for storing glucose in the form of glycogen, surpass this capacity and you gain fat. Don't and you don't. With glucose depletion (in the form of keto, in this instance) you can greatly *increase* glycogen storage capacity. So, no your body won't just store them as fat. It will store them as glycogen. Which is a good thing. 60% carbs is sure to keep insulin high all day thus blunting fat burning and kicking fat storing into high gear. 30% protein is about fine. 10% fat is barely if even enough for all of the functions fat has in the body unless your calorie level is abnormally high.
"Fat does not break down as easily as carbs and also have over twice the calories, so our body does not need a lot of fat. Also, it is impossible to build muscle naturally if there is no insulin present, so you cannot gain muscle while on keto."
Our body doesn't need a lot of carbs either. In fact, our body doesn't need carbs at all, it does need fat though. I don't think anyone recommends a zero-carb diet for weight trainers. Either a cyclical or targeted approach in recommended, so the absence of insulin is incorrect. It is possible to build muscle with a CKD.
"And last thing is that what is the point of putting on muscle and then watching it shrink away because of glycogen and potassium depletion."
The point is that this doesn't happen. Again, have you used the diet?
"Remember there is good water and there is bad water, good water is inside muscles, bad water is underneith skin from too much salt."
Yeah, and?
*****
"That's what I'm saying, my brother! How can you workout when you're carbs are so damn non-existent? And, interestingly enough, the brain does not function properly on less then about 60 grams of carbs per day."
You schedule training around carb loads, that's how. For example, a typical CKD looks like so:
Monday - Friday - 75% fat, 25% protein
Saturday n Sunday - Tons of carbs, 1g protein/pound, little fat.
Monday and/or Tuesday are your training days. You still have glucose in your muscles to train with. You also do a submaximal workout on Friday to fully deplete glycogen and take advantage of exercise induced insulin sensitivity in trained muscles.
*****
"Your brain NEEDS glucose; it's the brain's primary energy source. Granted you can get some glucose from gluconeogensis in the liver and kidneys, but you CAN'T get enough from gluconeogenesis alone. But "what about Lipolysis?" you say. Well lypolysis will indeed provide energy and reduce glucose catabolism by glucose sparing, but your body still needs glucose for use in the CNS and PNS. And of course there's always the concern that your body will turn to glycogen in your muscle tissue and liver (glycogenolysis)."
Your brain doesn't need glucose. When glucose isn;'t available ketones are produced for the brain to use as energy. Also, due to the almost unlimited amount of energy (despite below maintenance cals) on a ketogenic diet gluconeogenesis doesn't happen to any significant degree, because it just isn;t needed.
Werd.
Have you used the diet? This statement is completely retarded.
"Think about it, is a diet that tells you to eat bacon, butter and any other type of bad fat really good for you"
Not really. For short periods of time, it won't hurt. I wouldn't tell anyone to use a ketogenic diet exclusively, but for losing fat it can't be beat IMO. BTW, do you know what hormone causes tryglyceride synthesis the most? Insulin. You know what is responsible for burning fat rather than storing it? Glucagon. Insulin is released from carbs, glucagon is released from the absence of carbs.
"Sure, I'm sure that you are thinking well what if I just ate healthy fats like flax or something."
No I'm not.
"The problem is that you are eventually going to have to go back to a normal diet, once you do this your body will be so used to using fat for fuel that it will start storing carbs very easily as fat. That is why the 60% carbs, 30% protein 10% fat diet is the best. You are telling your body to use carbs for fuel, use protein to build muscle, and the fat will be used to provide building blocks for other substances and pad vital organ organ structures(and whatever else fat does)."
Your body can get energy from a ton of places. If you provide it with fat, it will use fat. If you provide it with carbs, it will use them. The body has a certain capacity for storing glucose in the form of glycogen, surpass this capacity and you gain fat. Don't and you don't. With glucose depletion (in the form of keto, in this instance) you can greatly *increase* glycogen storage capacity. So, no your body won't just store them as fat. It will store them as glycogen. Which is a good thing. 60% carbs is sure to keep insulin high all day thus blunting fat burning and kicking fat storing into high gear. 30% protein is about fine. 10% fat is barely if even enough for all of the functions fat has in the body unless your calorie level is abnormally high.
"Fat does not break down as easily as carbs and also have over twice the calories, so our body does not need a lot of fat. Also, it is impossible to build muscle naturally if there is no insulin present, so you cannot gain muscle while on keto."
Our body doesn't need a lot of carbs either. In fact, our body doesn't need carbs at all, it does need fat though. I don't think anyone recommends a zero-carb diet for weight trainers. Either a cyclical or targeted approach in recommended, so the absence of insulin is incorrect. It is possible to build muscle with a CKD.
"And last thing is that what is the point of putting on muscle and then watching it shrink away because of glycogen and potassium depletion."
The point is that this doesn't happen. Again, have you used the diet?
"Remember there is good water and there is bad water, good water is inside muscles, bad water is underneith skin from too much salt."
Yeah, and?
*****
"That's what I'm saying, my brother! How can you workout when you're carbs are so damn non-existent? And, interestingly enough, the brain does not function properly on less then about 60 grams of carbs per day."
You schedule training around carb loads, that's how. For example, a typical CKD looks like so:
Monday - Friday - 75% fat, 25% protein
Saturday n Sunday - Tons of carbs, 1g protein/pound, little fat.
Monday and/or Tuesday are your training days. You still have glucose in your muscles to train with. You also do a submaximal workout on Friday to fully deplete glycogen and take advantage of exercise induced insulin sensitivity in trained muscles.
*****
"Your brain NEEDS glucose; it's the brain's primary energy source. Granted you can get some glucose from gluconeogensis in the liver and kidneys, but you CAN'T get enough from gluconeogenesis alone. But "what about Lipolysis?" you say. Well lypolysis will indeed provide energy and reduce glucose catabolism by glucose sparing, but your body still needs glucose for use in the CNS and PNS. And of course there's always the concern that your body will turn to glycogen in your muscle tissue and liver (glycogenolysis)."
Your brain doesn't need glucose. When glucose isn;'t available ketones are produced for the brain to use as energy. Also, due to the almost unlimited amount of energy (despite below maintenance cals) on a ketogenic diet gluconeogenesis doesn't happen to any significant degree, because it just isn;t needed.
Werd.
No, i don't think its a simple recipe to raise my kids on . Let me put it this way, i didn't hit college and go from 250 to 283 until i started eating a lot of cereal and fruits because they were "healthy". But like you were implying, most people don't work out and don't have the time to do so. I, for one, don't. I work out cardio a little bit, but i definately don't have the time to fit it in everyday.
"Now you're being silly. If your body can't process carbs then they would contribute nothing to your obesity problem, much like fiber (which is a carbohydrate that your body can't process)."
Your body NOT using a carb for energy is what allows it to be converted and stored. If your body looks to a carb for energy first, and cannot use the available supply, then its going to store it for "later use". Hell, i have 20 years and 60lbs of "stored energy" that my body has used up in the past 3 months.
"You have been perfectly clear but still have not answered the original question which was " couldn't you do the same thing and have better workouts if you lowered your carbs just enough to lose weight, but stop just short of ketosis?"
Don't forget that people deep into Atkins (20-40 grams a day) have weight loss as their primary goal, not building muscle. As they go on to the last 2 stages, and get up around 50-100 grams or so, they are still able to loose weight, just not as quickly, and build muscle.
I think we are both talking about what to do with 2 entirely seperate goals. I don't think anyone should be in ketosis if they want to body build. However, i can't deny the fact that there have been over 40,000 people in this country who have been on keto diets, lost massive amounts of weight, kept it off, and increased their overall health as well.
Everyone i know that i know that has been on a keto diet has seen an increase in their energy level. Since i started college 3 years ago i've gotten around 5 hours of sleep a night. It used to not be enough, now it is. I don't feel tired in the mid-day, or any other time. I have a consistant level of energy all day long, eating 3 meals a day. I wish i could do 6 small meals, but my schedule doesn't allow it.
On calories, i'll take an example from one of my books to best explain my view on calories, and if you'll read parts of the book i recommended above, you can find this on page 75.
"It works like this. To lose a pound a week one has to be eating 500 fewer calories a day than one burns up in energy. To gain a pound a week, one eats 500 calories a day more. Harry had been gaining half a pound a week for the past 35 months, which means he was taking in 250 calories a day too many. He was eating 3 full meals with chicken and fish for dinner and he was taking in 2129 calories a day.
Now, on the Atkins diet, Harry was losing 3.9 pounds a week, which means that according to conventional calorie theory, he would have to be taking in 1950 fewer calories a day than he burned in energy. We already know that at 2129 calories a day, he was taking in 250 calories a day too many. Thus Harry's break-even point is 1879 calories a day. To lose 3.9 pound a week, he should be taking in 1879 calories minus 1950 calories, or -71 calories a day -- Clearly an impossibility since you can't eat less than nothing.
You've seen Harry's menu (it's on page 76 of the book). In fact, that menu calculates out to 1928 calories a day. Harry is eating 49 calories a day over break-even point and therefore, according to calorie theory, he should be gaining 0.1 pound a week, and after 13 weeks on the Atkins diet he should have gained 1.3 pounds, not lost 50."
The chapter goes on to discuss the metabolic advantage, and FMS. Basically, what i'm getting at, is that study's have found that calories are irrelevent on low carb diets. Now i'm sure that in the case of your diet, this fact is much different. However, don't forget that i'm talking about an Atkins-style diet only.
Also, on me being insulin insensitive. Let me answer it this way. 1/2 the people on my dad's side of the family are diabetic, a few on my mothers side are as well (most type 2). Other than needing to lose weight, the main reason i even attempted this diet (my first one ever) was because i refuse to live my life sticking myself with a needle, dependent on some drug, for the rest of my life.
My uncle is no longer insulin dependent after losing 140lbs on Atkins. Diabetics probably benefit more from Atkins (with STRICKT help from a doctor) than any other body type.
. Let me put it this way, i didn't hit college and go from 250 to 283 until i started eating a lot of cereal and fruits because they were "healthy". But like you were implying, most people don't work out and don't have the time to do so. I, for one, don't. I work out cardio a little bit, but i definately don't have the time to fit it in everyday. "Now you're being silly. If your body can't process carbs then they would contribute nothing to your obesity problem, much like fiber (which is a carbohydrate that your body can't process)."
Your body NOT using a carb for energy is what allows it to be converted and stored. If your body looks to a carb for energy first, and cannot use the available supply, then its going to store it for "later use". Hell, i have 20 years and 60lbs of "stored energy" that my body has used up in the past 3 months.
"You have been perfectly clear but still have not answered the original question which was " couldn't you do the same thing and have better workouts if you lowered your carbs just enough to lose weight, but stop just short of ketosis?"
Don't forget that people deep into Atkins (20-40 grams a day) have weight loss as their primary goal, not building muscle. As they go on to the last 2 stages, and get up around 50-100 grams or so, they are still able to loose weight, just not as quickly, and build muscle.
I think we are both talking about what to do with 2 entirely seperate goals. I don't think anyone should be in ketosis if they want to body build. However, i can't deny the fact that there have been over 40,000 people in this country who have been on keto diets, lost massive amounts of weight, kept it off, and increased their overall health as well.
Everyone i know that i know that has been on a keto diet has seen an increase in their energy level. Since i started college 3 years ago i've gotten around 5 hours of sleep a night. It used to not be enough, now it is. I don't feel tired in the mid-day, or any other time. I have a consistant level of energy all day long, eating 3 meals a day. I wish i could do 6 small meals, but my schedule doesn't allow it.
On calories, i'll take an example from one of my books to best explain my view on calories, and if you'll read parts of the book i recommended above, you can find this on page 75.
"It works like this. To lose a pound a week one has to be eating 500 fewer calories a day than one burns up in energy. To gain a pound a week, one eats 500 calories a day more. Harry had been gaining half a pound a week for the past 35 months, which means he was taking in 250 calories a day too many. He was eating 3 full meals with chicken and fish for dinner and he was taking in 2129 calories a day.
Now, on the Atkins diet, Harry was losing 3.9 pounds a week, which means that according to conventional calorie theory, he would have to be taking in 1950 fewer calories a day than he burned in energy. We already know that at 2129 calories a day, he was taking in 250 calories a day too many. Thus Harry's break-even point is 1879 calories a day. To lose 3.9 pound a week, he should be taking in 1879 calories minus 1950 calories, or -71 calories a day -- Clearly an impossibility since you can't eat less than nothing.
You've seen Harry's menu (it's on page 76 of the book). In fact, that menu calculates out to 1928 calories a day. Harry is eating 49 calories a day over break-even point and therefore, according to calorie theory, he should be gaining 0.1 pound a week, and after 13 weeks on the Atkins diet he should have gained 1.3 pounds, not lost 50."
The chapter goes on to discuss the metabolic advantage, and FMS. Basically, what i'm getting at, is that study's have found that calories are irrelevent on low carb diets. Now i'm sure that in the case of your diet, this fact is much different. However, don't forget that i'm talking about an Atkins-style diet only.
Also, on me being insulin insensitive. Let me answer it this way. 1/2 the people on my dad's side of the family are diabetic, a few on my mothers side are as well (most type 2). Other than needing to lose weight, the main reason i even attempted this diet (my first one ever) was because i refuse to live my life sticking myself with a needle, dependent on some drug, for the rest of my life.
My uncle is no longer insulin dependent after losing 140lbs on Atkins. Diabetics probably benefit more from Atkins (with STRICKT help from a doctor) than any other body type.
Well put Cackerot69.
Also, don't forget that that the Atkins diet is NOT the initial stages. The diet itself is more like 15% carbs, 35% protein, 50% fat. Somewhere around there. Basically its a point where your taking in as few as 25 or 30 grams/carbs or as many as 100/120. Of course, the more carbs you take in, the leaner the meat you eat needs to be.
Also, don't forget that that the Atkins diet is NOT the initial stages. The diet itself is more like 15% carbs, 35% protein, 50% fat. Somewhere around there. Basically its a point where your taking in as few as 25 or 30 grams/carbs or as many as 100/120. Of course, the more carbs you take in, the leaner the meat you eat needs to be.
sixtythirtyten
New member
cackerot, since you know so much answer me these questions?
how is it possible to put on muscle w/o insulin?
how do ketones not drain your potassium and glycogen storage?
and how does eating carbs such as brown rice and oats keep my insulin levels high all day as you have previously stated?
and last but not least answer me this, how have I gone from 175 to 190 lbs and actually lost bf while on this diet and how come when I tried keto( only once) I went from 170 to about 160 in a week and I started to look like a skinny bitch and my breath stunk and I felt like shit? I am really curious about this?
how is it possible to put on muscle w/o insulin?
how do ketones not drain your potassium and glycogen storage?
and how does eating carbs such as brown rice and oats keep my insulin levels high all day as you have previously stated?
and last but not least answer me this, how have I gone from 175 to 190 lbs and actually lost bf while on this diet and how come when I tried keto( only once) I went from 170 to about 160 in a week and I started to look like a skinny bitch and my breath stunk and I felt like shit? I am really curious about this?
Whoa, dude, were you trying to body build while on a keto diet? No wonder you lost BF, thats the point of being on a keto diet. Sounds like it worked well too. Your body shouldn't be in ketosis if your trying to body build. As i stated above, the only people who should be on keto diets are those who are overweight/obesis, and need to get their weight under control.
I take things one step at a time. I'm dropping weight, then i'm going to bulk up a little and try to gain some muscle without losing to much flexibility.
The bad breath is caused by your body producing ketones. Its pretty much a good sign that your burning fat. Drinking more water, and eating parsley and green leafy vegetables are suppose to help control the bad breath. I have it too, but its not that its bad breath, its just different in a sense. Mine is sweetish more than stinky.
I take things one step at a time. I'm dropping weight, then i'm going to bulk up a little and try to gain some muscle without losing to much flexibility.
The bad breath is caused by your body producing ketones. Its pretty much a good sign that your burning fat. Drinking more water, and eating parsley and green leafy vegetables are suppose to help control the bad breath. I have it too, but its not that its bad breath, its just different in a sense. Mine is sweetish more than stinky.
Cackerot69
New member
"cackerot, since you know so much answer me these questions?"
OK.
"how is it possible to put on muscle w/o insulin?"
I wouldn't recommend the diet for muscle gain, but it will work. The diet isn't *always* less than 30g of carbs. There are periodic carb-loads (or you can just eat carbs before or after anaerobic workouts, but that would be terrible for muscle growth). So, to tailor the diet for muscle growth you'd play around with the carb load. Rather than 5 days of low carbs and 2 day carb load, maybe 3 days of low carb and a 4 day carb load. Something such as:
Day 1-4: ketogenic diet with roughly maintenance cals or slightly above/below depending on your goals. If you want to use the diet to stay lean I would actually use this period as a kind of fat loss period and put cals 150-250 below maintenance. The purpose it would serve is to burn off any fat gained during the bulking period (carb load).
day 5-7: carb load with 1000 cals above maintenance.
So, say your maintenance level is 2500 cals per day (probably way off but this is just to make a point). That means your weekly maintenance is 17, 500 cals. During the carb load you eat 10, 500 cals and during the "fat loss" (in actuality fat maintenance) phase you eat 2250 cals per day and end up with a total of 19,500 cals and a surplus of 2000 per week and 285 per day. Which is about good for a lean mass gain.
You could screw around with this to have more cals or less depending on how fast you need to gain or whatever, of course.
Basically the same idea as the cyclical approach to dieting but it's made for bulking with the complete opposite purpose.
"how do ketones not drain your potassium and glycogen storage?"
Glycogen, yes. Potassium, maybe. You should supplement with potassium.
"and how does eating carbs such as brown rice and oats keep my insulin levels high all day as you have previously stated?"
If you eat every 3 hours like a lot of us, then insulin simply won't go down in time for your next meal. Or maybe it would depending on how much you eat or whatever, but you're still spiking insulin often which turns off fat burning and turns on fat storing.
"and last but not least answer me this, how have I gone from 175 to 190 lbs and actually lost bf while on this diet and how come when I tried keto( only once) I went from 170 to about 160 in a week and I started to look like a skinny bitch and my breath stunk and I felt like shit? I am really curious about this?"
Prolly cuz you did it wrong, lol. You will lose some water at first, and a lot of it will be intra-muscular water. This is only temporary and will go away after the carb load. I've found creatine helps with this, as well as supplementing with potassium. When you breath out ketones it makes your breath smelly (though for some reason this never happened to me). So chew on some sugarless gum and drinking lots of water helps.
OK.
"how is it possible to put on muscle w/o insulin?"
I wouldn't recommend the diet for muscle gain, but it will work. The diet isn't *always* less than 30g of carbs. There are periodic carb-loads (or you can just eat carbs before or after anaerobic workouts, but that would be terrible for muscle growth). So, to tailor the diet for muscle growth you'd play around with the carb load. Rather than 5 days of low carbs and 2 day carb load, maybe 3 days of low carb and a 4 day carb load. Something such as:
Day 1-4: ketogenic diet with roughly maintenance cals or slightly above/below depending on your goals. If you want to use the diet to stay lean I would actually use this period as a kind of fat loss period and put cals 150-250 below maintenance. The purpose it would serve is to burn off any fat gained during the bulking period (carb load).
day 5-7: carb load with 1000 cals above maintenance.
So, say your maintenance level is 2500 cals per day (probably way off but this is just to make a point). That means your weekly maintenance is 17, 500 cals. During the carb load you eat 10, 500 cals and during the "fat loss" (in actuality fat maintenance) phase you eat 2250 cals per day and end up with a total of 19,500 cals and a surplus of 2000 per week and 285 per day. Which is about good for a lean mass gain.
You could screw around with this to have more cals or less depending on how fast you need to gain or whatever, of course.
Basically the same idea as the cyclical approach to dieting but it's made for bulking with the complete opposite purpose.
"how do ketones not drain your potassium and glycogen storage?"
Glycogen, yes. Potassium, maybe. You should supplement with potassium.
"and how does eating carbs such as brown rice and oats keep my insulin levels high all day as you have previously stated?"
If you eat every 3 hours like a lot of us, then insulin simply won't go down in time for your next meal. Or maybe it would depending on how much you eat or whatever, but you're still spiking insulin often which turns off fat burning and turns on fat storing.
"and last but not least answer me this, how have I gone from 175 to 190 lbs and actually lost bf while on this diet and how come when I tried keto( only once) I went from 170 to about 160 in a week and I started to look like a skinny bitch and my breath stunk and I felt like shit? I am really curious about this?"
Prolly cuz you did it wrong, lol. You will lose some water at first, and a lot of it will be intra-muscular water. This is only temporary and will go away after the carb load. I've found creatine helps with this, as well as supplementing with potassium. When you breath out ketones it makes your breath smelly (though for some reason this never happened to me). So chew on some sugarless gum and drinking lots of water helps.
Darn it I've missed the boat again. I am merely an idealist who believes that bodybuilding can and should be a healthy undertaking. But when I look at some of the other boards on this site I always go into despair because I see folks wanting to gain mucle or lose fat in the short term at any long term cost. I feel the same despair when I see a "pro" bodybuilder being idolized by millons of people when to me it is wholly grotesque to see what drugs and fad diets can do to a mind/body that is focused on short term goals.
I come from a culture that says "start as you mean to continue"
I come from a culture that says "start as you mean to continue"
Cackerot69
New member
Actually, no.
Honestly, I was going to say the same thing Omega said regarding the Atkins garbage.
I dont think there is any disagreement in keeping Low Carbs, but the Atkins Diet sucks. Eating low Carbs is the only thing good about Keto. Frequent eating small amounts of clean foods and working out daily is the best.
chaste
I dont think there is any disagreement in keeping Low Carbs, but the Atkins Diet sucks. Eating low Carbs is the only thing good about Keto. Frequent eating small amounts of clean foods and working out daily is the best.
chaste
Grizzly you are correct. Unless you are an obese NIDDM sufferer with poor diet control then a moderate carb/high protein diet is fine. Are you a bodybuilder or just an average guy that wants to drop a little fat for a special occasion? If you're a bodybuilder you might want to check out WarLobo's thread
http://209.11.101.244/forum/showthread.php?threadid=64969
http://209.11.101.244/forum/showthread.php?threadid=64969
OMEGA said:
kETO DIETS ARE HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!!!
DANGEROUS FOR SKELETAL STRUSTRE, AND FILTERING SYSTEMS OF THE BODY.
BAD FOR THE BRAIN ALSO.
IF YOU WANT TO GET CUT....
GET 1.3 GRAMS OF CARBS PER PUND OF LEAN BODY WEIGHT, AND .8 GRAMS OF PROTIN PER POUND OF BODY WEIGHT.
Have you read NOTHING in this thread? Didn't think so. $20 says that you have never tried Atkins, or if you have, you didn't do it properly. You have never researched what your spewing, and you have no concept of what we're talking about.
I work out cardio, i do NOT lift weights, nor is it my goal at this time to lift weights. My goal is simply to lose weight and get my heart under control, and avoid diabeties. NEVER have Cackerot69 or i EVER said that you should be in ketosis if you want to body build. I don't see that stated anywhere because its not stated anywhere.
I don't see how anyone can look at my good health improvements, my increased energy level, low cholesterol, low blood pressure, etc. and still say that its bad for me. Jesus Christ, if i can do something bad for me that increases my health, than so be it. Obviously its impossible to have a conversation with half of you people because you refuse to except the fact that your wrong. 10's of thousands of people are healthy due to Atkins. Atkin's is the oldest Keto diet (30 years old) it has the largest test group (from the 70's-early 90's there were over 15,000 patients treated at the Atkins clinic, on top of those using other doctors, yet people will still look at a diet that is 99% effective and say that it is unhealthy. Liberals, everyone of you must be bleeding heart liberals who think we shouln't retaliate against the taliban
Ummmm I don't get it KWKSLVR. Grizzly specifically asked about energy for his workouts with regards to carbs/keto diets. At elite fitness this usually means weights workouts. There are plenty of other threads on this board where you can appropriately gush the pleasures of Atkins, but by your own admission it is not ideal for bodybuilders.
Perhaps you could start a new thread to address the misconceptions of Atkin's diet. Your answers to "why Keto" are not relevant to this thread IMHO.
Crackerot is more on target with his CKD advice. This works well for bodybuilders, but is one of the worst diets you can undertake if you're already obese and insulin resistant. CKD is good if you're healthy and only have a little fat to lose, but it is just one of many diets that work well in this sitch.
Perhaps you could start a new thread to address the misconceptions of Atkin's diet. Your answers to "why Keto" are not relevant to this thread IMHO.
Crackerot is more on target with his CKD advice. This works well for bodybuilders, but is one of the worst diets you can undertake if you're already obese and insulin resistant. CKD is good if you're healthy and only have a little fat to lose, but it is just one of many diets that work well in this sitch.
MS, whatever you write always makes sense and I'm so glad that you are there to clear the air! Can you post a sample of your daily diet of the high carb/mod protein/low fat and also of your cutting phase with mod carb/high protein/low fat. And what is exactly "mod" and "high"? I know it will be differnet per individual but just a ball park figure so I can guesstimate for my size. And what about those pics!!! One of the reasons I eat so much protein is because of the lifting but if I can get away with less I would love to! Thanks.
since when did being an advocate of due process, procedural justice, become a negative thing.
The rule of law should be applicable to every instance in which a crime is committed. If you respect the law and hold it a fundamentally true, than you should take that premise to height of conceptualization.
Also i am happy that your health is improved.... when one of us advocates another form of nutritionla therapy, it is not done out of spite for your ideas, or for the masterbation of our own ego's.....the exchange of our ideas revolve around concern for the health of one another, and the hope that will all improve.....that's all.
ok
The rule of law should be applicable to every instance in which a crime is committed. If you respect the law and hold it a fundamentally true, than you should take that premise to height of conceptualization.
Also i am happy that your health is improved.... when one of us advocates another form of nutritionla therapy, it is not done out of spite for your ideas, or for the masterbation of our own ego's.....the exchange of our ideas revolve around concern for the health of one another, and the hope that will all improve.....that's all.
ok
KWKSLVR said:
BULLSHIT! Unless you are working double shifts, then everyone has time to workout. It only takes an hour or so a day, and with there being 24 hours in a day that leaves 23 for everything else. It's called priorities. Do you watch any television? If you do, then you have time to workout. End of story. "I don't have time" is the lamest excuse I've ever heard that usually comes from lazy fat asses.
KWKSLVR said:
That's exactly why I asked the question in the first place. I was curious as to why all of these professed bodybuilders are espousing the virtue of a ketogenic diet. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I was under the impression that these boards were populated by bodybuilders.
While I tend to agree with ya Grizzly I will defend a person's freedom to make their own dietary choices as long as they are based on knowledge rather than gossip and tradition. In an ideal world everyone would eat right and exercise regularly from the womb to the tomb. In the real world everyone has to battle temptations to eat crap and not workout enough (and make amazing excuses to justify their choices).
If you work with an alcoholic then all you can do is advise them to give up alcohol, but deal with the situation as it presents itself.
If you deal with a heavy smoker then all you can do is advise them to give up smoking and deal with the situation as it presents itself.
If you deal with a 'hard-gainer'......
If you deal with an anorexic.......
If you deal with an AIDS patient......
If you deal with an obese person.......
In all these cases the lifestyle habits and damage are already set. This calls for remedial measures. For people like KWKSLVR and Big Calvin (to name only two of many) an Atkin's style diet is an appropriate remedial course of action.
Many bodybuilders do successfully use a modified keto diet (CKD) but like any diet it is not right for every bodybuilder. That's for you to decide based on as much education and experience as you can muster. Please don't confuse an Atkin's (full time keto) diet with a cyclical keto diet (CKD).
Above all else we should be supportive and encouraged by KWKSLVR's progress since we all want to move forward in life. Even if you're not obese, losing fat is one of the hardest things we can do in this modern world full of readily available food and passive entertainment.
And this board is a diet discussion board. There are training boards and anabolic boards and supplement boards to answer peoples training questions. I feel uncomfortable discriminating against non-bodybuilders on this board because there are many people out there that need diet help of all sorts. I merely suggest that KWKSLVR starts a separate thread to address the virtues (and otherwise) of an Atkin's diet for NON-bodybuilders, and also to help dispell some of the incorrect notions that many people have about keto diets.
If you work with an alcoholic then all you can do is advise them to give up alcohol, but deal with the situation as it presents itself.
If you deal with a heavy smoker then all you can do is advise them to give up smoking and deal with the situation as it presents itself.
If you deal with a 'hard-gainer'......
If you deal with an anorexic.......
If you deal with an AIDS patient......
If you deal with an obese person.......
In all these cases the lifestyle habits and damage are already set. This calls for remedial measures. For people like KWKSLVR and Big Calvin (to name only two of many) an Atkin's style diet is an appropriate remedial course of action.
Many bodybuilders do successfully use a modified keto diet (CKD) but like any diet it is not right for every bodybuilder. That's for you to decide based on as much education and experience as you can muster. Please don't confuse an Atkin's (full time keto) diet with a cyclical keto diet (CKD).
Above all else we should be supportive and encouraged by KWKSLVR's progress since we all want to move forward in life. Even if you're not obese, losing fat is one of the hardest things we can do in this modern world full of readily available food and passive entertainment.
And this board is a diet discussion board. There are training boards and anabolic boards and supplement boards to answer peoples training questions. I feel uncomfortable discriminating against non-bodybuilders on this board because there are many people out there that need diet help of all sorts. I merely suggest that KWKSLVR starts a separate thread to address the virtues (and otherwise) of an Atkin's diet for NON-bodybuilders, and also to help dispell some of the incorrect notions that many people have about keto diets.
WOW...what an entertaining thread...LOL.
Well, I guess i'll add in some pocket change. I tend to agree with both sides here. For the most part, I would not suggest a keto type diet to an obese person. First I should mention that I only advocate a CKD keto type diet and not a straight keto diet. I think Atkin's is a quack, and that there are better versions of the keto diet (ala "Bodyopus" and "The Ketogenic Diet"). In essence, it all comes down to calories in vs. calories out. Even Lyle McDonald has stated this. There is no reason to go into extremes when one can accomplish things in a more easy route. Lets face it, if you can get to single digits without a keto diet, then there is no need for the keto diet. I feel that CKD's really excel when people get to low bodyfat levels and want to get "ultralean". It seems to be reallt effective at the last bit of stubborn bodyfat and water weight that is normally a pain in the ass to get rid of. Although there is NO real threat to most peoples health while following a "smart" CKD, I still have to believe that a diet which incorporates a more nutrient balanced intake would be a healthier way of eating for a normal lifestyle. I really don't see why there is such a big deal here between everyone, if something is working and it is not jeopardizing or hurting anyone's health, then who gives a flying fuck? There is NO ONE WAY!!! The are better ways at certain times, and at other times, there is other diets which will benefit a person in their goals. I really don't see the typical CKD as being unhealthy, but I would not really see why one would want to follow such a diet all the time. I feel that the reason why most Pro's don't use this diet (although there is still a lot who do), is that they are on soo much damn growth hormones, DNP, insulin, IGF-1, thermogenics, Thyroid hormone, etc, etc, etc....that they really do not need to go into extremes to reach their goals. One thing I really agree with MS on, and I know from experience, is that most Americans diets are shitty. There is no denying this, especially considering the fact that the average population is OVER 33% obese (actually it is higher now so I am being kind). BTW, I am an American so don't think I have some kind of country bias here. I also agree that if there was not such a high variety of shitty foods out there in the community, then there would be a naturally lower obese problem. Another thing I notice is that other countries are a lot more dependant in traveling on foot, and not by vehicular transportation. Look at a lot of European based countries (as well as others) and you will notice a dramatic decrease in the amount of obese people you encounter. I'm happy to be an American, but i'll be the first to admit that we are pretty lazy (not everyone of course). Awwww hell, I am pretty tired so I think i'll stop here. Have to wake up in the morning kind of early and drive a fucking hour and a half to school. I always enjoy a good debate, but I feel there is not no real answer to what contemplates the best diet. Well, 6:30 is coming pretty fast so i'll talk to everyone tomorrow (aargh 2 mid-terms...yuck!!!). LATER!
MR. BMJ
Well, I guess i'll add in some pocket change. I tend to agree with both sides here. For the most part, I would not suggest a keto type diet to an obese person. First I should mention that I only advocate a CKD keto type diet and not a straight keto diet. I think Atkin's is a quack, and that there are better versions of the keto diet (ala "Bodyopus" and "The Ketogenic Diet"). In essence, it all comes down to calories in vs. calories out. Even Lyle McDonald has stated this. There is no reason to go into extremes when one can accomplish things in a more easy route. Lets face it, if you can get to single digits without a keto diet, then there is no need for the keto diet. I feel that CKD's really excel when people get to low bodyfat levels and want to get "ultralean". It seems to be reallt effective at the last bit of stubborn bodyfat and water weight that is normally a pain in the ass to get rid of. Although there is NO real threat to most peoples health while following a "smart" CKD, I still have to believe that a diet which incorporates a more nutrient balanced intake would be a healthier way of eating for a normal lifestyle. I really don't see why there is such a big deal here between everyone, if something is working and it is not jeopardizing or hurting anyone's health, then who gives a flying fuck? There is NO ONE WAY!!! The are better ways at certain times, and at other times, there is other diets which will benefit a person in their goals. I really don't see the typical CKD as being unhealthy, but I would not really see why one would want to follow such a diet all the time. I feel that the reason why most Pro's don't use this diet (although there is still a lot who do), is that they are on soo much damn growth hormones, DNP, insulin, IGF-1, thermogenics, Thyroid hormone, etc, etc, etc....that they really do not need to go into extremes to reach their goals. One thing I really agree with MS on, and I know from experience, is that most Americans diets are shitty. There is no denying this, especially considering the fact that the average population is OVER 33% obese (actually it is higher now so I am being kind). BTW, I am an American so don't think I have some kind of country bias here. I also agree that if there was not such a high variety of shitty foods out there in the community, then there would be a naturally lower obese problem. Another thing I notice is that other countries are a lot more dependant in traveling on foot, and not by vehicular transportation. Look at a lot of European based countries (as well as others) and you will notice a dramatic decrease in the amount of obese people you encounter. I'm happy to be an American, but i'll be the first to admit that we are pretty lazy (not everyone of course). Awwww hell, I am pretty tired so I think i'll stop here. Have to wake up in the morning kind of early and drive a fucking hour and a half to school. I always enjoy a good debate, but I feel there is not no real answer to what contemplates the best diet. Well, 6:30 is coming pretty fast so i'll talk to everyone tomorrow (aargh 2 mid-terms...yuck!!!). LATER!
MR. BMJ
I agree with KWKSLVR.......More people will get fat from carbs than anything else in my opinion. Why do you think we have more LOW FAT snacks on the shelves of our grocery stores than over, but for some reason we as a country are fatter than ever????? Put 2 and 2 together.......Low carb diets will have you burning fat 24/7. whether your on the treadmill or in front of the TV. You can also put on muscle with these diets, the atkins diet or a keto (5 days 0 carbs, 2 day carb up). I have increased my lifts big time on the atkins diet over the long term....I can eat as much fat/protein as I want and keep my bodyfat low. When I've gone back to a normal diet in the past I quickly noticed bodyfat increasing and realized that I was carb resistant. Everyone is different. There is no correct diet for everyone, but for many people, a low carb diet will be very helpful. And I know everyone talks about the dangers of it, but fact is more people will die from being obese in the long run than from being on a low carb diet and LOOKING GOOD.
Grizzly said:
You've entertained me more than anyone else has in a long time.
1) Do you know how my day starts? My day starts at 5:30 every morning where i wake up and go for a jog. After that i walk back in the door, cook breakfast, eat, get ready, and make my 30 minute trek to class everyday.
I'm in class from 8:00a.m. to 8:00p.m. I come home, study/do whatever work i need to then cook dinner and watch the news. While i watch the news i do situps, pushups, and the like. After that i sleep, rinse, repeat, everyday.
2) Since we've established that strict keto diets do not contain the proper fuels for body building, then we've also established that IF i had the time mixed with a strong enough desire to be so huge that i can barely walk, i still wouldn't be able to aquire that goal with my current eating habits.
3)
Bullshit - bullshit
n : a ludicrously false statement [syn: bull, Irish bull, horseshit,
shit, crap, bunk, bunkum, buncombe, guff, rot,
hogwash, dogshit]
v : talk through one's hat [syn: waffle, bull, fake]
My responses - Have been why the above statements are false. Which is that, A) they are not effective, which is only half false depending on what your goal is. B) That the majority of people who lose on it are losing mostly water weight. Tell me that these people have only lost water weight, and i'll tell you your crazy
.I hope that i've shown that i've done at least a little research and know at least something about keto diets. If i don't then i've done well for myself running in blind
.Grizzly - I understand that you were posting in regards to body building. However, after my first couple of posts i think i unintentionally changed the focus of your thread, for that i appologize. I'm someone who usually does not leave things unsaid and in doing so i've ended up leaving half of us refering to weight loss, and the other half refering to body building.
woje3 said:
Well, that one is simple. Sugar. Let's look at some of the "low fat" snack choices. Licorice. Low-fat ice cream. Low fat cookies. Low fat peanut butter. What do all of these have in common? They are loaded with...you guessed it...SUGAR! The lean-seekers worst enemy. That's the trick, my brother. If there's anything that you shouldn't be eating when trying to be lean it's sugar and that's what's in all of those "healthy, non-fat foods."
Secondly, anytime your body is in a caloric deficit you will be burning bodyfat. Therefore, whether you shrink your carb intake or your fat intake your body will burn fat if it is in a caloric deficit. It's the law of thermogenesis.
Now, as for why the keto-type diets work. It's because there is a higher level of satiety with high fat/high protein foods. Therefore, you get full faster which keeps your calories to a minimum. I could eat a pound of oatmeal with raisins like it's nothing, but put a pound of chicken in front of me and it gets a little harder. The difference between the two is the overall calories. I'll hazard a guess and say that the oatmeal and raisins would have about 2500-3000 calories whereas the chicken would have about 800. That's the difference. So, the real trick with the Atkins diet is in fooling yourself into thinking that you're eating a ton, when really your caloric intake is really not that high. Of course, I can and have eaten 3 pounds of bacon so that might hurt the old diet.
As I tell everyone who asks me about how to gain or lose weight, it's all about calories.
KWKSLVR said:
Bro, I don't know where you go to college, but you must be taking 72 credit hours a semester. I, too, am in college and I'm done with class by noon everyday except monday or wednesday, depending on the teacher's whims. That's the greatest thing about college. It's a bodybuilders dream world, excepting true profesional status. Maybe I'm mistaken, but somewhere in your day you have time in between class to get some sort of workout in. You can't possibly have 12 hours of class everyday unless you are taking 72 hours and I've never heard of a university that will allow that, nor could you possibly do the work for 24 classes all at once.
Just a little helpful advices. Since it's a half an hour walk to class, you should walk very fast/jog to class which will give you an extra 20 minutes worth of cardio a day to help lose the fat. I know that I walk fast to class period, but when I'm dieting like I am now I get there an extra 5 minutes faster because I try to use it as extra cardio.
MS- Agreed. This is a diet discussion board, however, it's a sub-category of the Elite Fitness boards and Elite Fitness caters towards bodybuilders. That's why I said that. I was under the impression that the people who come to elite fitness are all about muscle. I'm not trying to trash anyone. That's just the impression that I was under. And, for the most part, the people on these boards are gym rats, by and large.
KWKSLVR said:
My responses - Have been why the above statements are false. Which is that, A) they are not effective, which is only half false depending on what your goal is. B) That the majority of people who lose on it are losing mostly water weight. Tell me that these people have only lost water weight, and i'll tell you your crazy
Oops, I forgot a part. I'm not denying that you will lose fat on a keto diet. However, a large portion of the weight loss, atleast the initial 10 pounds, will be entirely water weight. Carbs are very watery and, I think I may have said this before, upon ingesting bind with 3 molecules of water for every 1 molecule of carb. Thus, by eliminating carbs completely you lose a shitload of water. Hell, when I started dieting 5 weeks ago I lost 6 pounds in 2 days simply by dropping my carbs from 450-500 a day to 200-250. Merely a water loss. That's why bodybuilders carb up before a show. It makes the muscles fuller by filling them with glycogen and water. Plus, the carbs that are ingested will suck up the water from beneath the skin which helps with definition. That's why I said that most of it is water. Most dieters need/want to lose about 20 pounds of fat. Well, they hear about his atkins crap and think "wow, 10 lbs in a week! Cool, I'll only have to diet for about a month." Then they go back to eating carbs and are immediately up 10 pounds from water retention and still need to lose 10 more pounds of bodyfat.
"Atkin's is a quack" I agree wholeheartedly, but you cannot deny that many morbidly obese people have done well on it. There are certainly better keto diets out there, but no one has commercialized theie ideas as well as Atkins.
For one, I am GLAD I live in a borderline developing country. I don't own a car so I walk or bike everywhere unless I want to shell out more than I can afford for taxis/public transport. I also cannot afford junk food/fast food. Vegetables are CHEAP. I grow them in my backyard. Whole grain rice, chick peas, lentils, nuts, seeds and beans are CHEAP. The cheapest entertainment I can find for a weekend is to convince some friends to take me hiking somewhere fun. I am also American (ex-patriot) and feel very sorry for the rest of my family still in the USA. I can see that they are all going to die younger and in poorer health than they need to because of the easily available excesses put in front of them everyday. This is not a character flaw on their part, just a combo of poor lifestyle education, being surrounded by everyone else doing the same thing, and human nature. It takes a huge amount of willpower to say NO, and this is one of the biggest things that sets sucessful bodybuilders apart from joe average.
The best diet is the one that works for you and as MR BMJ said, everyone has different needs at different times.
I'm like you grizzly. I am sodium sensitive and on a high carb diet most of the year so when I cut my carbs in half (say from 300g to 150g) and cut out all extra sodium I also lose a huge amount of water weight in the first 2 weeks of a diet. It's all good as long as you factor in that is is water and not fat (well a little of it will be fat).
For one, I am GLAD I live in a borderline developing country. I don't own a car so I walk or bike everywhere unless I want to shell out more than I can afford for taxis/public transport. I also cannot afford junk food/fast food. Vegetables are CHEAP. I grow them in my backyard. Whole grain rice, chick peas, lentils, nuts, seeds and beans are CHEAP. The cheapest entertainment I can find for a weekend is to convince some friends to take me hiking somewhere fun. I am also American (ex-patriot) and feel very sorry for the rest of my family still in the USA. I can see that they are all going to die younger and in poorer health than they need to because of the easily available excesses put in front of them everyday. This is not a character flaw on their part, just a combo of poor lifestyle education, being surrounded by everyone else doing the same thing, and human nature. It takes a huge amount of willpower to say NO, and this is one of the biggest things that sets sucessful bodybuilders apart from joe average.
The best diet is the one that works for you and as MR BMJ said, everyone has different needs at different times.
I'm like you grizzly. I am sodium sensitive and on a high carb diet most of the year so when I cut my carbs in half (say from 300g to 150g) and cut out all extra sodium I also lose a huge amount of water weight in the first 2 weeks of a diet. It's all good as long as you factor in that is is water and not fat (well a little of it will be fat).
Thats a half hour DRIVE to class (20 miles), not walk My god i wish it was a walk though. Keep in mind that my goal right now isn't to put on muscle, my diet isn't exactly good for putting on muscle. I DO run and i DO cardio, however, although i'm not sure on this, i don't think its wise for me to try and put any muscle on with my current diet. I don't have the funds for a gym membership right now, but luckly a good friend of mine is giving me all of his free weights to use down here after I hit my goal (around 180 or so)
On the calories thing, i agree, its all about calories until your on a keto diet. Re-read my above post. From the Atkins Book
But your right, i sure as hell eat less than i used to. Not that i really ate that much in comparison to a lot of other people i know. But now i'm more full, and i rarely have the time to slow down and eat anyway. I usually eat 2 meals a day with a protein bar inbetween.
On water weight, its common knowledge that the first 10lbs of any diet is water weight. So i don't understand why you'd say it like its a bad thing? So i should feel bad that only 50lbs of the weight of lost is fat? Also, i lost 20lbs my first 2 weeks. I'm still on the Induction Phase, and i'm still losing about 1-2 lbs a week. The only people that gain more than they lost on Atkins are the ones that go from 20-40 carbs a day, to eating their old 400 grams a day. Heres a poll that i found last night that makes for good reading.
In fact, the whole news and research section makes for good reading
My god i wish it was a walk though. Keep in mind that my goal right now isn't to put on muscle, my diet isn't exactly good for putting on muscle. I DO run and i DO cardio, however, although i'm not sure on this, i don't think its wise for me to try and put any muscle on with my current diet. I don't have the funds for a gym membership right now, but luckly a good friend of mine is giving me all of his free weights to use down here after I hit my goal (around 180 or so)On the calories thing, i agree, its all about calories until your on a keto diet. Re-read my above post. From the Atkins Book
But your right, i sure as hell eat less than i used to. Not that i really ate that much in comparison to a lot of other people i know. But now i'm more full, and i rarely have the time to slow down and eat anyway. I usually eat 2 meals a day with a protein bar inbetween.
On water weight, its common knowledge that the first 10lbs of any diet is water weight. So i don't understand why you'd say it like its a bad thing? So i should feel bad that only 50lbs of the weight of lost is fat?
Also, i lost 20lbs my first 2 weeks. I'm still on the Induction Phase, and i'm still losing about 1-2 lbs a week. The only people that gain more than they lost on Atkins are the ones that go from 20-40 carbs a day, to eating their old 400 grams a day. Heres a poll that i found last night that makes for good reading.In fact, the whole news and research section makes for good reading
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It's pretty tough to eat vegan when cutting, but otherwise it is fun to work out a nutrition plan that incorporates lots of legumes, seeds, nuts and some refined products such as wheat gluten and soy powder. And of course those veggies always make a show.
Yesterday (this is my maintenance diet for a female ~160lb 5'5") I ate:
1 cup (raw measure) of whole cooked oats with a scoop of soy protein (30g). This is a standard breakfast for me.
2 peanut butter sandwhiches (4 slices rye bread and ~3 TBSP peanut butter). This is basically 2 snacks I eat mid-morning and midday and varies a lot.
1/2 a block of tofu in some stirfried veggies over 2 cups of brown rice Mid-afternoon meal. Could be lentil dal or a bean dish instead of tofu and rice.
1 Cup chick peas with more veggies. Evening meal which also varies a lot. I like variety so I try lots of different combos of foods.
I find myself eating a lot of pumkin and chickpea curry at the moment. Yum.
Total mixed veggies is anywhere from 4-6 cups
Calories 2400-2600
Carbs ~340g (55-60%)
protein~130g (20-25%)
fat ~ 65g (20-25%)
It's not an easy diet to prepare (lots of veggie chopping and grain boiling etc...) but it's tasty and keeps me full and lean 24/7. Oh yeah, and it CHEAP cheap cheap which is also very important to me.
Yesterday (this is my maintenance diet for a female ~160lb 5'5") I ate:
1 cup (raw measure) of whole cooked oats with a scoop of soy protein (30g). This is a standard breakfast for me.
2 peanut butter sandwhiches (4 slices rye bread and ~3 TBSP peanut butter). This is basically 2 snacks I eat mid-morning and midday and varies a lot.
1/2 a block of tofu in some stirfried veggies over 2 cups of brown rice Mid-afternoon meal. Could be lentil dal or a bean dish instead of tofu and rice.
1 Cup chick peas with more veggies. Evening meal which also varies a lot. I like variety so I try lots of different combos of foods.
I find myself eating a lot of pumkin and chickpea curry at the moment. Yum.
Total mixed veggies is anywhere from 4-6 cups
Calories 2400-2600
Carbs ~340g (55-60%)
protein~130g (20-25%)
fat ~ 65g (20-25%)
It's not an easy diet to prepare (lots of veggie chopping and grain boiling etc...) but it's tasty and keeps me full and lean 24/7. Oh yeah, and it CHEAP cheap cheap which is also very important to me.
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MS said:
Call me crazy, but morbidly obese people ESPECIALLY should get into the whole exercise thing. I think that's the whole problem with the Atkins diet. It's a fucking fad diet. Just like any other diet that the general public gets into like the "Subway Diet." Try some exercise and proper eating habits people. Now one might say to me "Oh, that's easy for your big, muscle-bound ass to say, Mr. Buff" but I can say that because I was a 330lb fat-assed junior in high-school. How did I fix it? I stopped eating half-gallons of ice cream and pounds of licorice at a sitting and started practicing proper eating habits and lifting weights like a man posessed which is why I'm now 260 at 13%. I really don't think that the Atkins diet is a good lifetime diet and that's what it's all about. Fitness and looking good is a lifestyle. You can't do it for a few months and expect to go back to your old ways and still look good. I'm always amazed when people ask me if I'm still lifting weights and bodybuilding. I'm like "Well, yeah. How the fuck do you think I look like this? Do you think I got to this point and then stopped? What would I look like then?" To continue this rant: And that's one of the problems. "I'm on a diet." There's the problem. Watch what you eat for a couple of months and then eat like shit again. That doesn't work. It's a 24/7 365 deal. Ok, maybe only 24/6 340 thing. Everyone needs to fuck up and eat like shit sometimes.
How is a diet that is 30 years old and places emphasis on exercise a "Fad Diet". It goes back to my theory that most people have done ZERO research on their own on Atkins, and obviously are so thick-headed that they don't WANT to read the 20 links of scientific and other information on Atkins that i have provided in this thread and in others.
If you don't want to learn about something, then fine. But don't go around repeating false info that you've heard from other people posting on a forum who also know nothing. There are a lot of people who could benefit from Atkins, and MISLEADING them does them no good. Theres 10's of thousands of people who have changed their lives and their health on Atkins. If most of you would do real research, you'd find all sorts of new scientific study's that support it.
If you don't want to learn about something, then fine. But don't go around repeating false info that you've heard from other people posting on a forum who also know nothing. There are a lot of people who could benefit from Atkins, and MISLEADING them does them no good. Theres 10's of thousands of people who have changed their lives and their health on Atkins. If most of you would do real research, you'd find all sorts of new scientific study's that support it.
Hey look, in 30 seconds i found more on what Atkins has to say about exercise than most of you have ever looked up on your own http://www.atkinsdiet.com/faq/faq.asp
Scroll down to the right topic
Scroll down to the right topic
KWKSLVR said:Thats a half hour DRIVE to class (20 miles), not walk
Well, I would advise atleast some lifting. It doesn't even matter what your diet is right now because, as an untrained individual, you'll put on some muscle just because of the unusual stress on your body. It will raise your metabolism and make losing weight that much easier. Also, it will slow the aging process, which is largely due to loss of muscle mass that comes with age and lowered test levels. How about because it will make you look better? Who doesn't want to get laid a little more? You don't have to, and probably can't/won't ever look like Ronnie Coleman, but a little extra muscle has myriad benefits. Plus, I can tell you from experience that after losing a ton of weight you're going to have some pully, loose skin and if you fill it out with some extra muscle you'll be less pully and loose/flabby.
As for a gym membership, I'd imagine that you can probably use the one at the university which should be included in your tuition and fees. Either way, bro, try to hit some weights. The benefits are too numerous to list. And, now I know that you have atleast some free time in your day since you've been on this board and had the free time to post. Like Dorian Yates says in his book "Blood and Guts" "Excuses are for failures. Don't be an excuse maker. Be a success."
What about out of the ordinary stress on any muscles and healing time over injury's? I've done 0 research on weight lifting with my carbs so low, and 3/4 of what i've read here has told me that i wouldn't gain any muscle anyway due to so little glycogen being present in my muscles.
Basically, my reasoning has been that without the proper fuel, all i'd accomplish my lifting would be injuring myself. But like i said, i haven't done any research on the matter.
Basically, my reasoning has been that without the proper fuel, all i'd accomplish my lifting would be injuring myself. But like i said, i haven't done any research on the matter.
guys, I dont know. Again i can say Im not into the whole Keto thing.
I have read Atkins' book and I tried his stuff awhile back. Honestly, from my heart I dont like his methodology nor the keto methodology in general, despite its success here and there. The diet is Not an overall nutritional diet and doesnt seem to be a "LifeStyle" diet. That's why I agree with grizzly about it being a somewhat a fad diet.
After getting into serious weight training, efficient aerobics and clean frequent eating, I dont see anything better than this. High Protein, moderate carbs and low fat with strength training and aerobics is the way to go.
I only can speak from personal experience and I haven't never felt as good and as healthy as I do with this methodology.
chaste
I have read Atkins' book and I tried his stuff awhile back. Honestly, from my heart I dont like his methodology nor the keto methodology in general, despite its success here and there. The diet is Not an overall nutritional diet and doesnt seem to be a "LifeStyle" diet. That's why I agree with grizzly about it being a somewhat a fad diet.
After getting into serious weight training, efficient aerobics and clean frequent eating, I dont see anything better than this. High Protein, moderate carbs and low fat with strength training and aerobics is the way to go.
I only can speak from personal experience and I haven't never felt as good and as healthy as I do with this methodology.
chaste
Please KWKSLVR, I know you are all fired up because for the first time in your life you feel you have control over you weight. Bravo for you. But please also realize that you are coming across like a religious evangelist on this Atkins thing. This does not advance your 'cause' any more than someone blowing up a New York tower or two. I have read Atkin's original diet revolution cover-to-cover, and more than that I have looked at many of the references he cites (and followed up on more recent research). He is a man who has made a LOT of money off of his 'revolutionary' diet plan, yet still hasn't managed to fund any peer reviewed, cross-over studies that would really help him an aweful lot. When pressed for hard-core research he inevitably comes up with afadavits by the thousands and tangential studies that he inteprets to support his diet. Where I come from we call this kind of behaviour 'political' or 'lobbiest'. That is why I call him a quack. None of this means his diet is 'no good' (just like not all politicians are bad) as you are well aware. It just means 'caveat emptor'.
Just a blast from the past so you will realize that I am NOT anti-keto, here's a link and a quote from big calvin back in late July
MS (that's me) said "Have you had a full check-up for heart, liver, kidney disease for a start? If you have any probs there then you really need to do a keto under medical/dietetic supervision. But I really think that you need to knock off eating carbs at least until your insulin sensitivity returns to more normal levels. Please don't put this off any longer. You've been waffling around on this diet issue for too long and if you keep it up your pancreas may just pack it in all together and then you WILL be insulin dependant for life. That's if your heart doesn't give up first. I'm not scare mongering, just very concerned that you're stalling (in denial as you said) and that this could have serious repercussions. And steroids at this stage will most likely worsen your insulin resistance and possibly raise you blood pressure (not to mention the orals will tax your liver even more than it already is). Don't even think about it right now."
http://209.11.101.244/forum/showthread.php?threadid=37618&highlight=MS+big+calvin
Just a blast from the past so you will realize that I am NOT anti-keto, here's a link and a quote from big calvin back in late July
MS (that's me) said "Have you had a full check-up for heart, liver, kidney disease for a start? If you have any probs there then you really need to do a keto under medical/dietetic supervision. But I really think that you need to knock off eating carbs at least until your insulin sensitivity returns to more normal levels. Please don't put this off any longer. You've been waffling around on this diet issue for too long and if you keep it up your pancreas may just pack it in all together and then you WILL be insulin dependant for life. That's if your heart doesn't give up first. I'm not scare mongering, just very concerned that you're stalling (in denial as you said) and that this could have serious repercussions. And steroids at this stage will most likely worsen your insulin resistance and possibly raise you blood pressure (not to mention the orals will tax your liver even more than it already is). Don't even think about it right now."
http://209.11.101.244/forum/showthread.php?threadid=37618&highlight=MS+big+calvin
For Grizzly
A thread that is going at the same time on 'keto for obesity' regarding a keto diet......
"You know i fear the summer...
no baggy clothes to hide in
hot girls in bikini's walking by laughing
fear of socalising
fear of being seen
fear of being judged
hatred of yourself
no self confidence
no self esteem
depression
=/
fuck it, take 10 years off my life and ill still want to do this so bad.
but time heals bad thoughts, and memories."
Just thought it was a nice window into another dimension that even I suffer from sometimes because people see and remember me when I'm "show ready" but in reality I am ashamed to show my off-season body in public.
"Compassion is the only true gift bestowed upon us by the gods"
A thread that is going at the same time on 'keto for obesity' regarding a keto diet......
"You know i fear the summer...
no baggy clothes to hide in
hot girls in bikini's walking by laughing
fear of socalising
fear of being seen
fear of being judged
hatred of yourself
no self confidence
no self esteem
depression
=/
fuck it, take 10 years off my life and ill still want to do this so bad.
but time heals bad thoughts, and memories."
Just thought it was a nice window into another dimension that even I suffer from sometimes because people see and remember me when I'm "show ready" but in reality I am ashamed to show my off-season body in public.
"Compassion is the only true gift bestowed upon us by the gods"
MS- I already understand that "window." I was fat until I was 19 years old. Like I said before, I was 330lbs as a junior in high school. Hell, I entered high school at 285. How's that for understanding the mindset of a fat person? Shit, even now I'm still worried about looking fat. I'm not a fan of off-season conditioning either. I'm not even a fan of my contest conditioning since in 2 contests I've never been able to get where I want to be. But, I keep trying and I don't do any fad diets either. I just think that the quick fix attitude is bad. Why don't these people try some exercise(read: consistent and intense exercise) and a proper diet and they'll get where they need to be? I mean, really, bodybuilders have proven consistently over the last 50 or so years that they know how to get into the best shape of any humans alive and very few, if any, follow a keto type diet. Ok, so maybe for a week or two pre-contest the carbs might be nil, but that's it. Never for months and months on end.
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KWKSLVR said:
Ok, I'll admit it. I've never read the book, nor am I ever going to. So, perhaps the true atkins diet is different, but I'm refering mainly to the way people have taken up this zero carb diet thing. In the majority of the cases the people have just heard about how it works and have never read the book and never will and just go about blindly. Therefore, it's a fad diet. More importantly, it is. Slim-fast has been around for 20 years and it's STILL a fad diet. I'm also not saying that it's not effective, but, fuck, bulimia and anorexia will lose weight for you too. Bro, the literature is wrong. It's just plain un-fucking-healthy. Atleast for extended periods of time, such as years. There's a reason that carbs exist and that's because our bodies need them. Yes, that's right. Our bodies NEED, I repeat, NEED them. End of story.
Well, of course they do. I don't think i've ever said that carbs are the devil. But, like i've said before, the first few stages of Atkins are corrective, not balanced. Hell, most Americans don't eat a balanced diet. I wouldn't want to be on Atkins for years. However, i'm never going to return to a style of eating where i consume 400 grams of carbs. I've never been a big junk food eater. Junk food never made me fat, fat never made me fat, and i don't intend to return to what gave me problems to begin with.
This time next year i'll probably be eating around 60-100 grams of carbs a day. I've come to the conclusion that 400 grams of carbs a day, plus the saturated fats that most people eat just can't be healthy. Hell, i don't like the idea of eating 400 grams of carbs a day of ANYTHING.
What i do know is that keto has kept me from turning into a diabetic, and it saved my uncle from a heart attack. What do know from what i've seen in many other people, is that they all benefited in a positive manor and NONE of them have had any negative results. It brought an old friend (died in a car wreck) from about 270 to 175. He lowered his Triglyciridies and raised his good cholesterol levels.
These people are the reasons i tried Atkins in the first place. I had never tried dieting before because i saw EVERYONE that i new that lost weight on a low fat diet, battle with hunger and fautigue only to gain it all back. I'm a winner, not a loser. When i set out to accomplish a goal, i reach it, and i NEVER look back. Thats the way that i am, and Atkins provided the logical solution for ME.
This time next year i'll probably be eating around 60-100 grams of carbs a day. I've come to the conclusion that 400 grams of carbs a day, plus the saturated fats that most people eat just can't be healthy. Hell, i don't like the idea of eating 400 grams of carbs a day of ANYTHING.
What i do know is that keto has kept me from turning into a diabetic, and it saved my uncle from a heart attack. What do know from what i've seen in many other people, is that they all benefited in a positive manor and NONE of them have had any negative results. It brought an old friend (died in a car wreck) from about 270 to 175. He lowered his Triglyciridies and raised his good cholesterol levels.
These people are the reasons i tried Atkins in the first place. I had never tried dieting before because i saw EVERYONE that i new that lost weight on a low fat diet, battle with hunger and fautigue only to gain it all back. I'm a winner, not a loser. When i set out to accomplish a goal, i reach it, and i NEVER look back. Thats the way that i am, and Atkins provided the logical solution for ME.
Dude, i don't know what you do for a living, but if going head to head with research and Doctors is what you like to do, then thats your business. I personally don't have the means to disprove medically proved research just because ?"its wrong"?. Study's always debunk each other. What i know is that what i am doing is working, and i am improving my health. NO ONE CAN ARGUE THAT. At, and if, a time comes when that changes, then of course i'm going to change the way i eat.
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KWKSLVR said:
Now that's what I'm talking about! Atleast you don't plan on doing it all of the time. So, you've got half of my arguement. Now, if you're going to revert back to "normal" eating, then why not just lower the carbs, lower the fat and lower the overall caloric intake while exercising? That's what I would call a good and sound "diet." And, really, there's nothing wrong with consuming 400 grams of carbs. I do it all of the time. Of course, I'm much larger than most folks, but there's nothing wrong with 200 or so. It's in the choice of carbs. Sugar=bad. Let me clarify that: Simple, white, refined sugar= bad. Oats, whole wheat bread, pasta, potatoes= good. Clean eating= lean body. Simple.
"I've come to the conclusion that 400 grams of carbs a day, plus the saturated fats that most people eat just can't be healthy"
That my friends is all you ever need to know about healthy eating for life. Save your $7 on the book and follow that advice, preferably sticking to whole unprocessed carbs and you will be fine.
"I had never tried dieting before"
Wow that's fantastic. He tells us not to knock a diet until we've tried it, but for him..........
Hmmmmmm makes ya wonder. Yup, it musta been the carbs that did it.
"Dude, i don't know what you do for a living, but if going head to head with research and Doctors is what you like to do, then thats your business."
Precisely
"I personally don't have the means to disprove medically proved research"
precisely again, which is why so many consumers get duped by anything that "looks" scientific.
" What i know is that what i am doing is working, and i am improving my health. NO ONE CAN ARGUE THAT."
Nope, can't argue woth that. I've seen similar statements on grapefruit diets, fasting, laetril for cancer, cream to enlarge breasts blah blah blah.
My point about Atkin's which you fail to grasp because you don't 'have the means' is that he does not, even after 30 years of making money on this diet, perform any peer reviewed research. If you don't know what that means and why it's important then you are misled, NOT because the diet isn't working for you but because you are supporting and encouraging a 'quack'. This has a valid and established medical meaning.
At, and if, a time comes when that changes, then of course i'm going to change the way i eat."
That my friends is all you ever need to know about healthy eating for life. Save your $7 on the book and follow that advice, preferably sticking to whole unprocessed carbs and you will be fine.
"I had never tried dieting before"
Wow that's fantastic. He tells us not to knock a diet until we've tried it, but for him..........
Hmmmmmm makes ya wonder. Yup, it musta been the carbs that did it.
"Dude, i don't know what you do for a living, but if going head to head with research and Doctors is what you like to do, then thats your business."
Precisely
"I personally don't have the means to disprove medically proved research"
precisely again, which is why so many consumers get duped by anything that "looks" scientific.
" What i know is that what i am doing is working, and i am improving my health. NO ONE CAN ARGUE THAT."
Nope, can't argue woth that. I've seen similar statements on grapefruit diets, fasting, laetril for cancer, cream to enlarge breasts blah blah blah.
My point about Atkin's which you fail to grasp because you don't 'have the means' is that he does not, even after 30 years of making money on this diet, perform any peer reviewed research. If you don't know what that means and why it's important then you are misled, NOT because the diet isn't working for you but because you are supporting and encouraging a 'quack'. This has a valid and established medical meaning.
At, and if, a time comes when that changes, then of course i'm going to change the way i eat."
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Man, i can see oats and whole wheat oats, but pasta and potatoes? A Potatoe is pure sugar. You know the infamous "Freshman 15"? Mine was the freshman 30....all from pasta and potatoes lol. But of course, this was eat and no exercise :-D
Have i knocked anyone elses diet? If i have, i honestly didn't intend too. Like i said, i know relatively nothing about body building, the diets, etc, so i try to not tread on those subjects. What i do try to defend is the diet that is working for me and has improved my health.. Is that so wrong? I personally don't think so.
At any rate, obviously we all have different opinions and have different strategies. No 2 people are made a like. One thing that i think we all agree on is that any amount of processed foods and hydrogenated oils can be bad for you. I try to eat as fresh as i can. I think in the end, most people could benefit from less fast foods and snack foods if from nothing else.
In High School, when i wasn't even trying to lose weight, i managed to drop about 10lbs by just cutting out fast food.
Have i knocked anyone elses diet? If i have, i honestly didn't intend too. Like i said, i know relatively nothing about body building, the diets, etc, so i try to not tread on those subjects. What i do try to defend is the diet that is working for me and has improved my health.. Is that so wrong? I personally don't think so.
At any rate, obviously we all have different opinions and have different strategies. No 2 people are made a like. One thing that i think we all agree on is that any amount of processed foods and hydrogenated oils can be bad for you. I try to eat as fresh as i can. I think in the end, most people could benefit from less fast foods and snack foods if from nothing else.
In High School, when i wasn't even trying to lose weight, i managed to drop about 10lbs by just cutting out fast food.
I'm glad you've finally found a diet that works for you. But PLEASE don't try to convince me that you put on fat from eating STRAIGHT pasta and potatoes. If you did not smother them in butter/cheese/gravy/salt/deep fried etc... then I can assure you, you would not have eaten enough to get fat. That's all I'm trying to get across is that carbs are not the enemy. Too many carbs COMBINED with too much fat is the enemy. So of course an Atkin's works because it eliminates the combo of high carbs and high fat. So does a low fat moderate or high carb diet. It's all good whatever works for ya.
Oh, it definately wasn't straight. I used to eat pasta w/ grilled chicken and sauce, a good bit of garlic bread, and i'd down it all with 2 liters of Mt. Dew . Literally 7 or 8 times a week. Of course, compared to most beer drinking college students (i stay away from alcohol), my diet wasn't that bad in comparsion (yet obviously bad enough to turn my into a pudgy bastard)
Of course, a pizza a week didn't help either
. Literally 7 or 8 times a week. Of course, compared to most beer drinking college students (i stay away from alcohol), my diet wasn't that bad in comparsion (yet obviously bad enough to turn my into a pudgy bastard)Of course, a pizza a week didn't help either
KWKSLVR said:
A potatoe is pure sugar? I don't think so! Number one, it's a starch. Now, that may or may not be a relative of sugar, I'm not sure. However, there's a difference between sugar and SUGAR. Fructose, a sugar, is good. Sucrose, known as white, refined, table sugar, is bad. That's what I'm talking about when I say sugar. Hell, lactose is a sugar, but it sure as fuck ain't bad for you. Unless maybe you're lactose intolerant.
Next, I thought you said that you didn't get fat from eating junk food. Last time I checked fast food was the king of "junk food."
And, MS is right. Carbs are not evil. There's absolutely nothing wrong with them. In fact, as I said before, your body does not, does not, does not, does not....did I stress that enough?.... function properly without them. So eat the fucking things!
grizzly I hear ya and I agree, I am telling you if you read the Atkin's book you will understand why people who admire him and his diet are overzealous and hate Carbs with such passion.
i guess its the way he describes it, but he is right to an extent in his explanation regarding processed Carbs and processed foods in general, but this should be well known to any nutritionist.
chaste
i guess its the way he describes it, but he is right to an extent in his explanation regarding processed Carbs and processed foods in general, but this should be well known to any nutritionist.
chaste
Whoa grizzly and chaste. KWKSLVR has made mistakes in his diet and lifestyle that almost all Americans have made. Can you honestly say that none of you have done the same (eaten pizza, mountain dew, forgotten to exercise, etc,,,)? Have none of you drunk beer (which KWKSLVR claims he doesn't indulge in)? He may have suffered more from consequences than you or I, but at least you can acknowledge that he represents a large number of people who have great difficulty controlling their dietary intake of any carbs (except fibrous veggies). Spuds are defintiely in the 'starchy' catgegory and like all starchy carbs will get converted to sugar. More so than most fibrous veggies that have a large percentage of undigestible carbs.
As for beer, I don't recall that beer has any fewer calories than Mountain dew (unless it was diet Mountain Dew of course). In fact I think full sugar Mountain Dew has more cals than beer??? Anyway I'm not trying to give anyone excuses for drinking Mountain Dew instead of beer !! Just trying in a lame sorta way to get everyone to put themselves in someone else's shoes. I know Grizzly says he's 'been there and done that'. Perhaps Grizzly could give some details of the way he turned HIS life around? Every little bit helps in the battle to get or stay lean in a society full of excess.
I'll start by saying that I grew up in an extended family of lazy fat asses that had lots of associated health problems. They embarrased me sooo much in public, AND I was a chubby child. Even before I hit adolescence I was determined to "not grow up like them". It was like pushing shit uphill for the first 5 YEARS. Yes, that's how hard it was for me to make permanent and stressfree lifesyle changes. In the end I moved far, far away from them all so they couldn't seduce me with "thanksgiving/christmas/don't you like my cooking/we'll just stop by Burger King for a meal" blah blah blah.
OK someone else's turn
As for beer, I don't recall that beer has any fewer calories than Mountain dew (unless it was diet Mountain Dew of course). In fact I think full sugar Mountain Dew has more cals than beer??? Anyway I'm not trying to give anyone excuses for drinking Mountain Dew instead of beer !! Just trying in a lame sorta way to get everyone to put themselves in someone else's shoes. I know Grizzly says he's 'been there and done that'. Perhaps Grizzly could give some details of the way he turned HIS life around? Every little bit helps in the battle to get or stay lean in a society full of excess.
I'll start by saying that I grew up in an extended family of lazy fat asses that had lots of associated health problems. They embarrased me sooo much in public, AND I was a chubby child. Even before I hit adolescence I was determined to "not grow up like them". It was like pushing shit uphill for the first 5 YEARS. Yes, that's how hard it was for me to make permanent and stressfree lifesyle changes. In the end I moved far, far away from them all so they couldn't seduce me with "thanksgiving/christmas/don't you like my cooking/we'll just stop by Burger King for a meal" blah blah blah.
OK someone else's turn
InNeedOfMotivation
New member
Hmm im reading this with a slight frown =[
i plan to use the keto diet to lose fat, probably 5-6 months im guessing.
then i will switch to a more balanced, traditional diet, based on carbs.
i plan to use the keto diet to lose fat, probably 5-6 months im guessing.
then i will switch to a more balanced, traditional diet, based on carbs.
MS- You beat me to it. I was going to post what I did and here you go and suggest it. Maybe that means you're a great mind since you think like me.
Anyway, between late March '98 and mid-August '98 I went from 305 to 250. Here's what I ate. There was some slight variation, but, for the most part, I ate the same thing everyday. When I look back now, I realize that this wasn't the perfect bodybuilding diet, but I wasn't exactly a bodybuilder then. I was just trying to get stronger and lose some weight.
Breakfast- 2 bowls of cereal w/ skim milk.
2 yogurts
and maybe a bananna or something
Lunch- 2 turkey or pork sandwhiches on wheat bread
2 banannas
a small bag of goldfish crackers or pretzels
Pre-workout- an "energy bar" That's what it said on the bag. All it was was a small loaf of bread with fruit and nuts in it.
Dinner- Either 2 packages of ramen noodles or a chicken/pheasant stir-fry.
And then a couple of times a week I would eat a small amount of icecream since I love the shit to death.
As we can see, my diet was far from a good cutting diet, but it worked. Perhaps the most notable thing about it is that it was VERY high in carbs. In fact, I think that's the majority of what I was consuming. If I were to hazard a guess, it would have been about 55% carbs, 25-30% protein and 15-20% fat.
As for exercise, I trained Mon, tues, thurs, fri and sometimes sat. Mon/thurs was chest and back Tues/fri was legs, arms and shoulders. I'd spend about 2 hours in the gym busting my ass. Fairly high volume with about 75-90 seconds rest between sets. Interestingly enough, I didn't do a single minute of cardio in that whole time.
How's that for carbs being the devil? I don't know, hopefully, this might help someone out.
Anyway, between late March '98 and mid-August '98 I went from 305 to 250. Here's what I ate. There was some slight variation, but, for the most part, I ate the same thing everyday. When I look back now, I realize that this wasn't the perfect bodybuilding diet, but I wasn't exactly a bodybuilder then. I was just trying to get stronger and lose some weight.
Breakfast- 2 bowls of cereal w/ skim milk.
2 yogurts
and maybe a bananna or something
Lunch- 2 turkey or pork sandwhiches on wheat bread
2 banannas
a small bag of goldfish crackers or pretzels
Pre-workout- an "energy bar" That's what it said on the bag. All it was was a small loaf of bread with fruit and nuts in it.
Dinner- Either 2 packages of ramen noodles or a chicken/pheasant stir-fry.
And then a couple of times a week I would eat a small amount of icecream since I love the shit to death.
As we can see, my diet was far from a good cutting diet, but it worked. Perhaps the most notable thing about it is that it was VERY high in carbs. In fact, I think that's the majority of what I was consuming. If I were to hazard a guess, it would have been about 55% carbs, 25-30% protein and 15-20% fat.
As for exercise, I trained Mon, tues, thurs, fri and sometimes sat. Mon/thurs was chest and back Tues/fri was legs, arms and shoulders. I'd spend about 2 hours in the gym busting my ass. Fairly high volume with about 75-90 seconds rest between sets. Interestingly enough, I didn't do a single minute of cardio in that whole time.
How's that for carbs being the devil? I don't know, hopefully, this might help someone out.
KWKSLVR said:Oh, it definately wasn't straight. I used to eat pasta w/ grilled chicken and sauce, a good bit of garlic bread, and i'd down it all with 2 liters of Mt. Dew
Of course, a pizza a week didn't help either
Well, there's the problem, my brother! The two liters of soda. Currently, I'm staring at a 2 liter of coke that I pulled out of the garbage. It's not mountain dew, but all sodas are created mostly the same. A 2 liter has 800 calories all of which come from...dum, dum, dum...SUGAR! The garlic bread ain't too good either. It was probably made from white bread and all of the butter just isn't very low-calorie. As for your diet not being as bad as most college kids, it's the exact same thing, minus the beer. I know, I've been in college for 4 years already and I know how my friends eat. Actually, you probably ate more than the majority. I don't if it's just the people I've lived, but they barely eat ever. Two times daily and they don't even eat that much when they do eat. I wasn't even sure if my roomate last year ever ate. I think I only saw him do it about 5 times all year.
Oops! Quick edit here. I forgot the real kicker of the soda drinking. If you drank 7-8 2 liters a week that's 5600-6400 calories. That right there is almost equivalent to 2 pounds. Most likely, that's where the weight gain came from when you add it on top of whatever it was that you would eat everyday.
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To clarify, when i said that junk food never made me fat, i meant that because i've never been a junk food eater in the traditional sense (other than soda ) I never really came in after school and dug into chips, i never really ate popcorn at the movies, etc, etc.
I cut out all carbonated and caffinated beverages about 2 years ago and haven't looked back. Now i drink water, and only water. Its all i need, and all i want.
I worked at McDonalds and at Dominoes my Senior year of high school and after seeing what goes into the food, the experience was ruined for me. From then till now (i'm a junior in college) i've probably had fast food a dozen times, not bad in almost 4 years. From the time i stopped eating fast food and drinking soda, till the time i started Atkins, i gained about 40lbs or so (went from a 42-48, i'm a 40 now). Of course, i don't count pizza as fast food, we used to go in and sit down and be served. Basically what i'm getting at is that my diet consisted mainly of pasta. When i started Atkins i transfered LITERALLY 13lbs of pasta (all from Sams Club ) from my pantry to my roomates pantry.
As far as the amounts i used to eat. Man, my roomate still beats me out. He's ALWAYS eating. He spends more in 1 month eating out, than i do on protein bars, vitamins, and regular groceries. I can hear him poping something in the microwave as i type this LoL.
) I never really came in after school and dug into chips, i never really ate popcorn at the movies, etc, etc.I cut out all carbonated and caffinated beverages about 2 years ago and haven't looked back. Now i drink water, and only water. Its all i need, and all i want.
I worked at McDonalds and at Dominoes my Senior year of high school and after seeing what goes into the food, the experience was ruined for me. From then till now (i'm a junior in college) i've probably had fast food a dozen times, not bad in almost 4 years. From the time i stopped eating fast food and drinking soda, till the time i started Atkins, i gained about 40lbs or so (went from a 42-48, i'm a 40 now). Of course, i don't count pizza as fast food, we used to go in and sit down and be served
. Basically what i'm getting at is that my diet consisted mainly of pasta. When i started Atkins i transfered LITERALLY 13lbs of pasta (all from Sams Club ) from my pantry to my roomates pantry.As far as the amounts i used to eat. Man, my roomate still beats me out. He's ALWAYS eating. He spends more in 1 month eating out, than i do on protein bars, vitamins, and regular groceries. I can hear him poping something in the microwave as i type this LoL.
Blackalpha
New member
It's very simple.. people who are not able to follow such a diet (as ckd or tkd) just stick to eating their carbs and blaming low-carb diets even though most of them don't have any facts to support their opinions.
Bump for Cack who told ya what's all about the keto diets.
Bump for Cack who told ya what's all about the keto diets.
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