and MS i know your a smart chic and you are thinking "see it was the drugs cause in ur own words u said it was like night and day"...no it wasnt the drugs because me and my best buddy started our 1st cycle the same day...he did 22 shots of sustanon, 20 shots of winny and some primo..the kid gained 15 lbs, 10 of which he pissed away at the end..thats because he was only training for less than 2 years..i actually gained 6lbs when i came off AAS..no joke..i was taking (not lying) i think something like 6 times the recommended amount of HMB (lol yes HMB) as well as the brand new (at that time) phosphagen HP and V2G...man the good ol days