Who here has actually juiced and then gone back to prohormones?

[THeMaCHinE]

And just remember, AS is a whole new ballgame -- a game with penalties if you don't take time to research. Learn, learn, learn before you do anything or order anything. And remeber, they are definitely illegal and you CAN get busted.

This is the main reason I'm considering going back to PHs. Just saying this so you know, not trying to be condescending or anything...

 

[ISN_Man]

Yeah, I'm pretty aware of the consequences associated with AAS. I've been researching them as often as possible for around 1 1/2 years now, basically trying to read anything I can get my hands on. Getting a hold of AAS is obviously a lot harder than getting PH, but I like knowing that a great amount of research has been conducted on AAS, while a lot still remains unknown about PH. In a way, it makes me feel safer knowing exactly what I'm putting in my body, exactly what its effect on me is, and what the associated risks/sides are.
As far as the Gen. Span. Ox is concerned, I got a lead on a new source that I know people of had success with not only getting them, but that they worked great too. So I guess we'll see about those. Time will tell.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Yeah, I'm pretty aware of the consequences associated with AAS. I've been researching them as often as possible for around 1 1/2 years now, basically trying to read anything I can get my hands on. Getting a hold of AAS is obviously a lot harder than getting PH, but I like knowing that a great amount of research has been conducted on AAS, while a lot still remains unknown about PH. In a way, it makes me feel safer knowing exactly what I'm putting in my body, exactly what its effect on me is, and what the associated risks/sides are.
As far as the Gen. Span. Ox is concerned, I got a lead on a new source that I know people of had success with not only getting them, but that they worked great too. So I guess we'll see about those. Time will tell.

Good to hear; some good thoughts there too. Let me know if you take the plunge... I forgot, there is some USP 24 ox powder going around that's supposed to be pretty good, you might check into that; also papervar is getting rave reviews as well...

 

[javaguru]

TheMachine; Each dose of Mag-10 is 300mg of total hormone, they don't list the specific breakdown. Therefore, I was taking a total of 600 mg per day. They also use grapefruit extract in the mag-10 formula.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

TheMachine; Each dose of Mag-10 is 300mg of total hormone, they don't list the specific breakdown. Therefore, I was taking a total of 600 mg per day. They also use grapefruit extract in the mag-10 formula.

Good to know, thanks for the info.

 

[growin']

I have hit a variety of different AS at varying doses. I don't consider myself a vet, but I can offer insight as far as real world comparisons. I can honestly say I am impressed with topical 4AD and topical 1-test, especially considering legality. Intranasal 4AD gives a GREAT pre-workout boost. In short, they are a LOOOONG way from the first crops that came out, ie Andro-6 LOL!

 

[THeMaCHinE]

I have hit a variety of different AS at varying doses. I don't consider myself a vet, but I can offer insight as far as real world comparisons. I can honestly say I am impressed with topical 4AD and topical 1-test, especially considering legality. Intranasal 4AD gives a GREAT pre-workout boost. In short, they are a LOOOONG way from the first crops that came out, ie Andro-6 LOL!

Yeah, I know what you're saying about the first crops... the only thing I ever did with those was unknowingly come damn close to developing gyno...

I'm not so much looking for a boost, but looking for added muscle. Did you use any sort of anti-e? How were your gains? What dosages did you take? What happened post-cycle?

 

[pa1ad]

Thanks for joining in -- I assure you that I'm not implying that anybody is ripping anybody off. I'm sorry if you thought that is what I was getting at. I think it just takes more money to make some things than it does others.

I do know that I can buy 3000 mgs of nandrolone (enough for an 8-week cycle) for a little over $100. I can buy 2000 mgs of test cyp (4 weeks) for $45. I recently purchased spanish oxandrolone at $1 per 10 mg pill ($4/day on cycle). 50 mg stanzolol ($1-$2/day on cycle) at the same price per pill. Let's not even get started on Fina. Fact is, AS are cheaper. And the results are better. They are researched more. Are FDA or SAGAR regulated, and you put less shit into your body. This is fact.

I'm curious -- are you implying that 600 mgs/day of 1-AD is equal to 60 mgs/day of dbol?

And your note about having to buy more raw material is noted. The problem is while you have to put more raw material into the PH, it doesn't equate into greater or equal efficacy. In other words, you have to put more less effective material into the PH and that (understandably) drives costs up. In the end you have to charge more for less-effictive products because your costs are greater. That's not a slam on supplements, that's just the way it is.

Can you comment on the need for ldex or clomid/nolva w/ 1AD or PHs?

We are talking about two different things. I am talking about the economics of the products themselves (irregardless of potency). You can by 3000mgs of 1-AD for about $40 as compared to your 3000mg of nandrolone for $100. Obviously prohormones are cheaper than steroids PER GRAM

In the case of prohormones you sacrifice potency for legality. That is the advantage of prohormones. There is no need to constantly remind everyone that prohormones are not as potent as anabolic steroids. We all know that already

 

[growin']

I am "natural" now, including post cycle aids, so I:

-Only did 2 week cycles to minimize HPTA suppression (I think 1-test may have slightly suppressed it)
-Didn't use any anti-e's and kept most of my gains (90-95%)
-gained about 5lbs on 4ad
-gained a few more pounds on 1-test

I had posted some pretty long threads on both my 4AD and 1-test cycles. I think they both can increase LBM, 4AD just adds more water. I don't know so much about 4AD, but 1-test would definitely shut you down if you used it for any length of time, and would DEFINITELY need some clomid and arimidex, vitex alone won't cut it.

 

[pa1ad]

I did great with the cycle. I gained a total of 16 lbs. Went from 205 to 221 in just under 8 weeks. BF stayed about the same (lost slightly). I took 40 mgs/day over 3 dosages (ox 1/2 life is 9 hours). No need for ldex as ox has a very low androgenic ratio; post-cycle, did a week of clomid from 300-200-100-50 ed thereafter. Post-cycle I dropped about 2 lbs. and settled in at 219. Recently I started cutting with diet and ALA. I now weigh from about 214-217 depending on time of day.


I've heard that grapefruit juice consumption was only good for Ox cycles. Are you saying it's effective for increased absorbtion of any oral steriod?

No, it's good for any oral, PH, vitamin, whatever. [/QUOTE]


grapefruit juice is not good for all drugs - only drugs that are metabolized chiefly by a specific class of enzymes. In the case of most steroids, this class of enzymes is not involved in the major deactivation pathways