Who here has actually juiced and then gone back to prohormones?

[javaguru]

I found max does mag-10(2 doses per day) to be about 80% as effective for "keepable" gains as 500mg/wk of Test and 75mg/ED of TA. Funny thing is that the test tren cycle cost about 3/4 of what the Mag-10 cost. One advantage to the Mag-10 is that I suffered lttle inhibition and no crash, no need to use clomid and just used Tribulus and vitex without problems. I've never had a problem with estrogen and have run up to 1g of test per week without sides so Arimidex was also a non issue.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

I found max does mag-10(2 doses per day) to be about 80% as effective for "keepable" gains as 500mg/wk of Test and 75mg/ED of TA. Funny thing is that the test tren cycle cost about 3/4 of what the Mag-10 cost. One advantage to the Mag-10 is that I suffered lttle inhibition and no crash, no need to use clomid and just used Tribulus and vitex without problems. I've never had a problem with estrogen and have run up to 1g of test per week without sides so Arimidex was also a non issue.

Great feedback -- yeah, it is funny how AS are cheaper than supplements. They're also better understood, FDA-regulated, have years of research behind them, and sides are known so you know what to take with them... But enough of that...

This is exactly what I was looking for. Tell me how much "stuff" is in a max. dosage of mag-10 (so I know actual mg amounts). The only gyno activity I've ever been prone to is dbol (itchy nipples mark onset) -- but that goes for just about everybody (and is easy to counter w/ nolva or clomid, ldex). I like the ldex to keep puffiness and water retention down -- and of course as an added precaution...

How was water retention on this stuff?

 

[pa1ad]

Great feedback -- yeah, it is funny how AS are cheaper than supplements.

Not really. If you actually looked at the issue you would see that the active dose of steroid in prohormones is about 10 times that of anabolic steroids.

For instance, 600mg of 1-AD a day compared to 60mg of dbol a day. Therefore, you need about 10 times more raw material (steroid) per bottle of prohormone.

Since kilos of prohormones and kilos of real steroids are pretty similar in price it becomes apparent that supplement companies are NOT ripping you off. In fact, your anabolic steroids should probably be cheaper than what they already are.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Not really. If you actually looked at the issue you would see that the active dose of steroid in prohormones is about 10 times that of anabolic steroids.

For instance, 600mg of 1-AD a day compared to 60mg of dbol a day. Therefore, you need about 10 times more raw material (steroid) per bottle of prohormone.

Since kilos of prohormones and kilos of real steroids are pretty similar in price it becomes apparent that supplement companies are NOT ripping you off. In fact, your anabolic steroids should probably be cheaper than what they already are.

Thanks for joining in -- I assure you that I'm not implying that anybody is ripping anybody off. I'm sorry if you thought that is what I was getting at. I think it just takes more money to make some things than it does others.

I do know that I can buy 3000 mgs of nandrolone (enough for an 8-week cycle) for a little over $100. I can buy 2000 mgs of test cyp (4 weeks) for $45. I recently purchased spanish oxandrolone at $1 per 10 mg pill ($4/day on cycle). 50 mg stanzolol ($1-$2/day on cycle) at the same price per pill. Let's not even get started on Fina. Fact is, AS are cheaper. And the results are better. They are researched more. Are FDA or SAGAR regulated, and you put less shit into your body. This is fact.

I'm curious -- are you implying that 600 mgs/day of 1-AD is equal to 60 mgs/day of dbol?

And your note about having to buy more raw material is noted. The problem is while you have to put more raw material into the PH, it doesn't equate into greater or equal efficacy. In other words, you have to put more less effective material into the PH and that (understandably) drives costs up. In the end you have to charge more for less-effictive products because your costs are greater. That's not a slam on supplements, that's just the way it is.

Can you comment on the need for ldex or clomid/nolva w/ 1AD or PHs?

 

[ISN_Man]

originally posted by THeMaCHinE
Would 500 mgs/day over 3-4 doses be a good dose of 1,4-ADD? 6', 215 lbs., +/- 10% bf...

I would say yes. I'm only doing 400mg ED and I know that's enough to trigger positive effects in me. Most people are reporting solid results off ED doses of 400-600mg. Take a dose every 3 hours or so, to keep your levels up. As it is, I have no clue what the half life of this stuff is, so it's better to be safe than sorry. If you decide to pick some up, let me know how you like it. Good luck bro

 

[THeMaCHinE]

I would say yes. I'm only doing 400mg ED and I know that's enough to trigger positive effects in me. Most people are reporting solid results off ED doses of 400-600mg. Take a dose every 3 hours or so, to keep your levels up. As it is, I have no clue what the half life of this stuff is, so it's better to be safe than sorry. If you decide to pick some up, let me know how you like it. Good luck bro

Cool, will do. If I do it, it'll be in a month or two -- I finished up an ox-only cycle about a month ago, so giving the body a little time off before I mess with hormone levels again...

I wonder if Pat would comment on the 1/2 life of various PHs? That would be good to know.

As a note to everybody if you don't do it already, take your doses with grapefruit juice, the narginin content will allow better absorbtion of the product.

 

[ISN_Man]

originally posted by THeMaCHinE
Cool, will do. If I do it, it'll be in a month or two -- I finished up an ox-only cycle about a month ago, so giving the body a little time off before I mess with hormone levels again...

I wonder if Pat would comment on the 1/2 life of various PHs? That would be good to know.

As a note to everybody if you don't do it already, take your doses with grapefruit juice, the pectin content will allow better absorbtion of the product.

How'd you make out with the Ox only cycle? How were your gains? Have you kept much post cycle? Clomid and or Arimidex therapy post cycle? I'm very interested in Ox. Considering it in the future.
I've heard that grapefruit juice consumption was only good for Ox cycles. Are you saying it's effective for increased absorbtion of any oral steriod?

 

[THeMaCHinE]

How'd you make out with the Ox only cycle? How were your gains? Have you kept much post cycle? Clomid and or Arimidex therapy post cycle? I'm very interested in Ox. Considering it in the future.

I did great with the cycle. I gained a total of 16 lbs. Went from 205 to 221 in just under 8 weeks. BF stayed about the same (lost slightly). I took 40 mgs/day over 3 dosages (ox 1/2 life is 9 hours). No need for ldex as ox has a very low androgenic ratio; post-cycle, did a week of clomid from 300-200-100-50 ed thereafter. Post-cycle I dropped about 2 lbs. and settled in at 219. Recently I started cutting with diet and ALA. I now weigh from about 214-217 depending on time of day.


I've heard that grapefruit juice consumption was only good for Ox cycles. Are you saying it's effective for increased absorbtion of any oral steriod? [/QUOTE]

No, it's good for any oral, PH, vitamin, whatever.

 

[ISN_Man]

originally posted by THeMaCHinE
I did great with the cycle. I gained a total of 16 lbs. Went from 205 to 221 in just under 8 weeks. BF stayed about the same (lost slightly). I took 40 mgs/day over 3 dosages (ox 1/2 life is 9 hours). No need for ldex as ox has a very low androgenic ratio; post-cycle, did a week of clomid from 300-200-100-50 ed thereafter. Post-cycle I dropped about 2 lbs. and settled in at 219. Recently I started cutting with diet and ALA. I now weigh from about 214-217 depending on time of day.

Wow, that sounds awesome!!! 16 pounds in 8 weeks on an Ox only cycle. That's impressive! I think I know what I'm going to be using soon!!!
What kind of Ox did you use?

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Wow, that sounds awesome!!! 16 pounds in 8 weeks on an Ox only cycle. That's impressive! I think I know what I'm going to be using soon!!!
What kind of Ox did you use?

I think my results were atypical. Most people experience about a 10-12 lb gain, but most also lean out more than I did too. I kept my calories high, and kept the dosing and pectin consistent. I was using the spanish genric ox from ********, but he's out of the game now. I don't think you can get it anymore. My opinion -- buy BTG or SPA, avoid Ttokkyo, do not buy Bratis Labs, ** or Loeffler. And of course, you should at least be 20. (I waited till I was 24 to start messing with PHs and did my first cycle at 27.