Who here has actually juiced and then gone back to prohormones?

[fhg43]

Sounds like you are taking a fairly hefty volume of PHs -- thanks for the detailed description... maybe you should try 3x/day dosing like Pat mentioned above? Personally, I wouldn't want to put that much material in my body...

It sounds like alot but to make gains or see benefits these tend to be typical doses. There are guys taking more than 600mg of 1-AD and that IMO could be hard on the bod. 750 4-AD is a minimum dose and so is 400 1-AD so I was hoping the 2 would work synergysticly(sp). I definitely feel strong during training.

The no sex drive would suck. I've only ever had that happen on a deca-only cycle. Next time I stacked w/ cyp and all was well. I wonder if the 4ad outweighing the 1ad is the cause of this? As far as tiredness, you may be overtrained, dehydrated, or carb-depleted (or some combination thereof) -- think this is possible?

I think I am dehydrated and under-rested (not really overtrained), but some of the known sides of 1-AD are no sex drive and lethargic feelings-at least a few others have reported this. I was hoping the 4-AD would counteract the sex drive issue.

As far as legality -- it's not so much the hooking up, it's the fear of getting popped. And what I have to lose if I do. Don't get me wrong -- I love AS, and properly researched, I think they can be used responsibly and to great effect. However, if PHs can offer me results that rival some of the milder roids, then it would be worth the tradeoff to me to be legal.

Keep us up to date on your PH cycle...

Yes...fear of getting popped-by the feds and my sport. But that is why I went the PH route.

FHG

 

[pa1ad]

17aas -- oxandrolone, stanzalol, dianabol, anadrol -- the most commonly taken orals. Hence, why I said it would work with most anything.

Of course IM compounds are outside of the range of this discussion anyway.

The only oral tests I can think of off hand is Andriol (which is terribly ineffective anyway) or methyltest.

Also, while not testosterone, progesterone is listed as having possible greater absorption taken with grapefruit juice, why would testosterone be so different?

Just to clarify, you're saying that CYP3A4 and P450 enzymes have little to do with degradation of PHs in the system?

Even if the P450 deactivation of oral test (which nobody takes) or PHs was "minor" as you put it, then by your own words, one would receive at the least a minor increase in efficacy. But maybe, the efficacy would be improved quite a bit... As I mentioned before, the exact nature by which grapefruit juice aids in absorption is not completely understood; it may help absorbtion in ways we don't understand yet. I think the minor investment would merit taking grapefruit juice/extract -- if nothing else, the pectin is great for you.

Anecdotally, I find myself getting better than average results when employing grapefruit juice; a lot of very intelligent guys over on the juice (no pun intended) board swear by it to. At the least it will improve efficacy incrementally, but it might do much better than that too.

I am not stopping you from taking your beloved grapefruit juice if you so desire. It can't hurt. I don't think it is gonna do that much good for hormones whose major route of deactivation is 17-keto steroid formation (testosterone, nandrolone, prohormones) however

 

[pa1ad]

Hmmm... sounds like an interesting product -- I don't suppose you can talk about it much yet eh? I'd love to read about it at some point...

Sorry ldex=liquidex=anastrozle it's readily available for research. It is an extremely effective anti-e. Typical usage while on an androgenic cycle is between .5mg to 1mg/day.

3x/day dosing sounds good -- do you think 500 mgs/day for somebody 6', 215 lbs. @ +/- 10% bf sounds good? Or would higher be better?

I am familiar with anastrazole. My product will work by the same mechanism as anastrazole.

500mg a day of 1-AD would work pretty well for someone your size. Some take 900mg a day but 600mg a day is generally an optimum dose for good results and minimal side effects

 

[ISN_Man]

That's fantastic. A legal, but effective anti-estrogen that stimulates your natural test production. I like that sounds of this. And if it can hold up against the big boys (arimidex, nolvadex, clomid, ect) then there'll be no point of even bothering locating those drugs. Kudos to PA!!!

 

[pa1ad]

I am not stopping you from taking your beloved grapefruit juice if you so desire. It can't hurt. I don't think it is gonna do that much good for hormones whose major route of deactivation is 17-keto steroid formation (testosterone, nandrolone, prohormones) however

BTW, I am sorry if i sounded like a dick on this post

 

[cool_sub]

And when can we expect this product to hit the market, especially as I was looking to start the 1-AD fairly soon.

Cheers.

 

[pa1ad]

And when can we expect this product to hit the market, especially as I was looking to start the 1-AD fairly soon.

Cheers.

4-6 weeks I hope

 

[PlateheadJim]

Interesting...

I have hit a variety of different AS at varying doses. I don't consider myself a vet, but I can offer insight as far as real world comparisons. I can honestly say I am impressed with topical 4AD and topical 1-test, especially considering legality. Intranasal 4AD gives a GREAT pre-workout boost. In short, they are a LOOOONG way from the first crops that came out, ie Andro-6 LOL!

Personally I'm considering a high dose 1-test + 4-AD + dbol (have plenty lying around) cycle, crossing my fingers, winking, clicking my heels together and hoping for the best.

My idea is as follows:

8 weeks =


weeks 1-8 40 grams of 1Test Ester from Kilo 714mgs per day spread out every 3 hours (100 every 3 hours)

weeks 1-4 560mg of dbol - 20mg per day spread out through day

weeks 4-8 20 grams of 4-AD - 714mg per day, transdermal in AM & PM

While this sound ridiculous the cost is quite reasonable - $200 for the 40 grams of 1-test from Kilo & $50 for 50 grams of 4-AD (enough left for another heavy cycle) - very cost effective. As far as the overload of 1-Test let's consider the following factors:

1-Test Ester is "maybe" 12-14% bioavailable and 1-Test at the very best is 40% as effective as tren mg per mg (probably worse than that though). The high dose of 1-Test should be effective orally due to the short half-life (3-4 hours) via spreading it out.

A comparable cost of Tren from our farm supply pals is about $300 for 16 grams - plus you have to conver for injection or transdermal use, oral is not a good option.

My theory is the above cycle can produce some nice gains and is doubtfully going to be that nasty as far as sides go, especially considering the cycles I've done before with AAS's.. After I finish my current bulking cycle (real AAS's) I'm going to wait about 8 weeks and try this..

 

[cool_sub]

Is there anything else other than your new supplement, especially as I will require it in 6 weeks time and it will take a week to get to me over here.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

BTW, I am sorry if i sounded like a dick on this post

As Ranger would say, it's all good, heh, heh, heh

Thanks for your viewpoint and information...