What's your take on 21's

[Tom Treutlein]

Hmm, interesting. Musclemuscle red karmas me swearing that everyone is different. I guess people are so different that general rules of physiology don't apply to them, and the intense burning sensation of 21's is, in reality, the muscle being "shocked" in order to make it grow. Douche bag.

musclemuscle - sware? Oh my GOD!

 

[musclemuscle]

Hmm, interesting. Musclemuscle red karmas me swearing that everyone is different. I guess people are so different that general rules of physiology don't apply to them, and the intense burning sensation of 21's is, in reality, the muscle being "shocked" in order to make it grow. Douche bag.

musclemuscle - sware? Oh my GOD!

put your money where your mouth is pussy

lets compare pictures....

shall we?

 

[musclemuscle]

put your money where your mouth is pussy

lets compare pictures....

shall we?

thats what i thought bitch

 

[BOOEY]

put your money where your mouth is pussy

lets compare pictures....

shall we?

I like the way you think!



I prefer dropsets over 21's.

 

[musclemuscle]

thats what i thought bitch

I don't just talk

I PACK

AND I will skin your ass raw BITCH

 

[Madcow2]

Enough please (both of you).

1) We can behave with civility and maturity regardless of whether or not we agree on some aspect of exercise.

2) Pictures are crap they will never prove anything in relation to knowledge. One might logically think ProBBers would know something decent about training, yet they are as ignorant as almost everyone else in the gym. Just good genetics, discipline, food, knowledge of diet, and enough roids to overcome a shitty training stimulus. I have yet to meet or hear of one with a good understanding of basic fundemental training science.

 

[BOOEY]

Enough please (both of you).

2) Pictures are crap they will never prove anything in relation to knowledge. One might logically think ProBBers would know something decent about training, yet they are as ignorant as almost everyone else in the gym. Just good genetics, discipline, food, knowledge of diet, and enough roids to overcome a shitty training stimulus. I have yet to meet or hear of one with a good understanding of basic fundemental training science.

I agree to an extent, but not completely. I know a few people who have shitty diets, do not use roids, get no rest, but have the ability to grow muscle like mother fuckers and be cut all year round. Genetics, genetics, genetics. It goes back to the principle that everyone is different and everyone's body will react differently to different training. So hammering a certain exercise (even one I don't like doing) is just as bad as saying that the exercise is necessary for all to do.

 

[musclemuscle]

I agree to an extent, but not completely. I know a few people who have shitty diets, do not use roids, get no rest, but have the ability to grow muscle like mother fuckers and be cut all year round. Genetics, genetics, genetics. It goes back to the principle that everyone is different and everyone's body will react differently to different training. So hammering a certain exercise (even one I don't like doing) is just as bad as saying that the exercise is necessary for all to do.

and that my freind is why everyone is different

its a little thing they call GENETICS

DIFFERENT PEOPLE REACT DIFFERENTLY

due to GENETICS

that is something this other dumbass doesnt seem to get

the guy is probably 5foot 7inches 123 pounds and talkin shit when he aint

nothin to back it

 

[Jim Ouini]

What's the rationale behind these anyway, something about stressing the bicep throughout the range of motion? Is that possible?

Or is it just a way to psychologically do hi rep bicep curls?

 

[Madcow2]

I agree to an extent, but not completely. I know a few people who have shitty diets, do not use roids, get no rest, but have the ability to grow muscle like mother fuckers and be cut all year round. Genetics, genetics, genetics. It goes back to the principle that everyone is different and everyone's body will react differently to different training. So hammering a certain exercise (even one I don't like doing) is just as bad as saying that the exercise is necessary for all to do.

Weighttraining stimulus and driving adaptation are homogenous throughout the population - probably to a great deal accross all mammals not just humans. There are always going to be differences in tolerances to load, the ease with which someone adapts and adds muscle, joint leverages which make certain exercises better/worse for an individual, and some other misc stuff. Everyone is different, but we are not all severe mutations that allow us to respond totally differently from each other. "Everyone is different" while true is widely used to rationalize all sorts of crap. 21s just don't have anything to do with exercise physiology or muscle growth - the effectiveness will be determined by the state of the lifter. Certainly someone who responds better to weight training might grow well off them compared to someone who is not as genetically gifted but this is not due to them being a supperior exercise - this is simply due to him responding better.

Take a total novice, he'll do well with 21s for a time but then a year or so out the gains slow to a crawl. Did the exercise become worse? No. He is simply trained to a degree and more resilient to adaptation. Hence, you don't see advanced periodization plans laid out for novice lifters. Are they better, sure they are, but the state of the novice lifter is that pretty much anything reasonable will work. Later on when he matures, the difference between the results he'll see on a non-periodized program vs. periodized will be night and day. You can't confuse the state of the athlete or his genetics with the viability of an exercise.

In the case of 21s this method has absolutely no backing in science for viability. Granted I can see someone who has been doing all strength work and compound lifts for a period using 21s and seeing some good short-term results but this is do to the state of the lifter and not the exercise being good or supperior in any way.

EDIT:
BTW - damn you Tom for getting me into this thread, I was pretty content in just letting it pass before I saw you post. I generally make it my policy to pass on any thread that I'd group with the "best way to train your inner chest." I kind of indicated as much in my first post.