What's specifically is wrong with liberalism?

[UA_Iron]

What personal rights has Bush stolen from you bor?

not so much the personal rights as the penalties for insignificant stuff aka "the war on drugs"

lets spend massive amounts of money trying to stop something we cannot stop and then overburden our prison system with minor drug offenders who get more time than child molestors.

Again, its a no-brainer. Lets fight against drugs, no one will be opposed to that while dicking around with real issues that might lose us votes.

 

[UA_Iron]

The problem with the Patriot Act is not how Bush and Co are using it.

The problem is what will happen when future administrations MISUSE it. There are a lot of historical precedents for this; RICO, for example, has been used for much other that what it was intended, including arresting owners of strip clubs where the community did not want them, etc.

ANd surely you are familiar with the Interstate Commerce Act and the way it has been misused / expanded, right?

So you understand, then, that the problem with the Patriot Act is not Bush and Co., it is what will happen in 20 years.

This is off topic anyway. I like peaches.

any potential for misuse means it was flawed from the beginning and should have never been enacted. Lying to ourselves and saying that its not going to be misused is just stupid.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

any potential for misuse means it was flawed from the beginning and should have never been enacted. Lying to ourselves and saying that its not going to be misused is just stupid.

Better hope in your time machine and go back to 1776 bor. You're ignoring political realities.

While I agree with you philosophically, I live temporally. (For the U of A crowd, that means "in current reality".)

 

[jerseyart]

Patriot act is pretty rediculous. It takes away checks on law enforcement and potentially my privacy.

Then which of its provisions do you find unnecessary?

Keeping in mind that it was passed with wide support on both sides of the aisle.

I am by inclination extremely libertarian, and worry about the poetential abuses of any such expanded powers. But I am also a realist, and I cant find fault with the particulars given the level of threat and trust that we as a osicety are wise enoguh to scale it back when the need is less urgent.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Conservatives are all for less government interaction...when in reality every single republican president has made the government grow by leaps and bounds. Conservatives like to bash the liberal point of view without subscribing to the fact that their own side is one giant hypocrisy.

You're confusing "conservative" with "Republican". Don't do that.

I think the US should follow a european model of democracy, like Germany and The Netherlands. More of the middle ground would be represented and less of this extremism would take place. If bush upholds the neocon agenda then he is a radical.

Would you like to enjoy the 12% unemployment that these countries have? How about the far higher tax burden? Sound good? Not trying to flame you homie. You just have a lot of reading to do.

 

[jerseyart]

not so much the personal rights as the penalties for insignificant stuff aka "the war on drugs"

lets spend massive amounts of money trying to stop something we cannot stop and then overburden our prison system with minor drug offenders who get more time than child molestors.

Again, its a no-brainer. Lets fight against drugs, no one will be opposed to that while dicking around with real issues that might lose us votes.

Simplistic bor, no offense.

If you imagine there arent offsetting societal costs to the inevitable rise in drug usage your kidding yourself.

Cheaper prices, easier accessability and no restrictions will inevitably lead to a rise in the customer base.

Personally I fluctuate between a fuck them all, let em all overdose and just one more asshole the liberals will try to sling across my shoulder to carry after he fries himself on that crap.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Simplistic bor, no offense.

If you imagine there arent offsetting societal costs to the inevitable rise in drug usage your kidding yourself.

Cheaper prices, easier accessability and no restrictions will inevitably lead to a rise in the customer base.

Personally I fluctuate between a fuck them all, let em all overdose and just one more asshole the liberals will try to sling across my shoulder to carry after he fries himself on that crap.

I don't believe in "societal costs". They are an abstraction made real by liberal policies.

 

[jerseyart]

I don't believe in "societal costs". They are an abstraction made real by liberal policies.

I understand your point maing, but the reality is thats exactly what you and I would be doing.

Although hardly naive, Im constantly amazed at the new ways in which they go out of their way to give away my money. Encountered a mom some time back who receives a $500-$600 stipend from social security because her 2 year old child is dyslexic. Not even to use for education/remediation, but just cause.

WTF

How do you even diagnose a two year old with that disorder, and even if it is possible, how does it in any way burden the mother with extra costs or expenses?

 

[IHateAmerica]

UA's point had some merit

Yours is just idiocy

Patriot acts I and II. They were passed through congress without your representatives even being allowed to read them. Idiocy is when people like you claim that you live in a free country.

 

[jerseyart]

Patriot acts I and II. They were passed through congress without your representatives even being allowed to read them. Idiocy is when people like you claim that you live in a free country.

You are factually incorrect sir