What's specifically is wrong with liberalism?

[jerseyart]

Yep, government has its place, agreed, and it needs money, too. I like term limits as a solution to most federal government woes. And also the line item veto.

I disagree with term limits. It's inherently anti fredom of choice. We already have term limits. They're called elections

Society does not have interests that differ from individual interests. Society is merely a collection of individuals. Government should allow individual interests to thrive, acting only to protect and preserve the rights of individuals.

This discussion is in danger of quickly becomeing too semantical. I dont disagree with your analysis of the proper role of government.

To me, drugs are a no-brainer. You either own your body or you don't. The current drug policy has had little to no effect on preventing drug use and related crime; further, it has driven the cost of drugs up, progressively lowering the threshold at which people are willing to take the chance at being involved in the game.

Id rather not turn this discussion into a drug debate. And as I stated earleir my won view vacillates.

How far do privacy rights extend. If two guys which to sell themselves to fight to the death for a national tv audience should it be allowed? Should people be allowed to sell their organs?

I worry when I hear the phrase "society as a whole", even when conservatives say it

Can't argue with you there. In my defense I didnt sleep well last night

 

[jerseyart]

innacurate.

How can you be needy and selfish but give yourself to the state?

You lost me bor. My statement was that liberals view individuals as inherently greedy (no needy) and selfish. In response they profess that individuals should sumbmit their wills and liberty to the state who can more benignly govern and distribute the fruits of an individuals labor.

At first it looks like you're talking about libertarianism which is extreme right, then it sounds like you're talking about socialism.

Get it straight, bro.

Was never discussing socilaism, except in description of what was wrong with the left.

As for libertarianism being far right, see Matt's response, it is a great post

 

[UA_Iron]

It teaches that the individual is inherently greedy, selfish, and incapable of making the correct choice when left to his own devices.

It seeks to enforce its view of how things should be on that individual, dispossesses him of his or her property and the fruit of his labor, and puts him in servitude to the state.

You dress it up nice maing, with fanciful promises of some leftist utopia, but essentially you seek to harness your dream on the back of every person wiling or not, and use force and threat of confinement when he doesnt comply.

You pursue an equality of outcome that denies the individual his inherent right to pursue his interests and his dreams. More so, you label him selfish and even a criminal for wishing to do so.

I've been given one life in this world. I dont wish to spend it in servitude to your vision, however glorious you may imagine it to be.

Man was born to be free, not shackled by the state like some work horse to pursue someone elses "well intentioned" vision.


You speak of liberalism caring for the individual through aid. Youc care for nothing Your entire philosophy is that some other individual is morally obligated to support everyone else, and if he doesnt, you will confiscate his property and put him in prison for failing to comly to your beliefs. You even discourage private mercy in favor of some all consuming state sponsored version, which does nothing more than spread the misery over a larger portion of the population while placing the state in almost full control of the nations wealth

innacurate.

How can you be needy and selfish but give yourself to the state?

At first it looks like you're talking about libertarianism which is extreme right, then it sounds like you're talking about socialism.

Get it straight, bro.

 

[jerseyart]

Here are a few I dont like:
The national database for 'suspected terrorists' sections 301 and 306. Immunity to law enforcement engaging in spying against the American people section 312. Section 102 makes news gathering illegal. Section 106, secret trials. Section 322 allows Homeland security to extradite citizens whereever they wish. Section 411, expands crimes punishable by death. Sections 122 and 123 allow for domestic surveillance wirhout a court order.
Section 110 removes sunset clause from first Patriot Act.

The only thing you have to hate now are freedom fries.

Uhh

No they don't


Let me help bor. Ive read the acts, and numerous legal opinions because they do concern me, at least parts.

There is a case to be made, but you havent made it. You are the one making the assertion, therefore it is incumbent on you to repsent a case in support of your position.

The intellectual equivelant of "Bush is the devil" only works with other mindless liberal parrots. If you wish to convince thinking America, you need to explain your concerns.

As it stands you simply are presenting vague exxagerations

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

innacurate.

How can you be needy and selfish but give yourself to the state?

At first it looks like you're talking about libertarianism which is extreme right, then it sounds like you're talking about socialism.

Get it straight, bro.

Broseph,

Libertarianism is not extreme right. It is not extreme anything. It is only a belief that individual liberty is the highest possible existence of man, and that government's paramount role is to protect individual liberty.

It amazes me that a college student, who, no offense, has not experienced a lot in life yet, believes ALREADY that the idea of individual liberties being prized above all else is "extreme". The indoctrination of our education system is working.

The Bill of Rights is a libertarian document, and in fact, the 10th Amendment (states' rights) is designed to prevent federal interference into matters best determined by local governments. Extreme? Only in our brainwashed person-enslaving culture.

 

[digger]

Instead of drawing a line from left to right:

COMMIE PINKO LIBERAL CONSERVATIVE RIGHT-WING NAZI
...................... ................. .................. ................ ................
SOCIALIST LEFTIST MODERATE REACTIONARY FASCIST


Try drawing a circle:

. . . . . . . . libertarian


liberal . . . . . . . . . . . conservative


. . . . . . . commie nazi


Because Nazi was, after all, the German abbreviation for National Socialist.

 

[CFZB]

Instead of drawing a line from left to right:

COMMIE PINKO LIBERAL CONSERVATIVE RIGHT-WING NAZI
...................... ................. .................. ................ ................
SOCIALIST LEFTIST MODERATE REACTIONARY FASCIST


Try drawing a circle:

. . . . . . . . libertarian


liberal . . . . . . . . . . . conservative


. . . . . . . commie nazi


Because Nazi was, after all, the German abbreviation for National Socialist.

BOOYA GRANDMA !