What's specifically is wrong with liberalism?

[EnderJE]

It teaches that the individual is inherently greedy, selfish, and incapable of making the correct choice when left to his own devices.

It seeks to enforce its view of how things should be on that individual, dispossesses him of his or her property and the fruit of his labor, and puts him in servitude to the state.

You dress it up nice maing, with fanciful promises of some leftist utopia, but essentially you seek to harness your dream on the back of every person wiling or not, and use force and threat of confinement when he doesnt comply.

You pursue an equality of outcome that denies the individual his inherent right to pursue his interests and his dreams. More so, you label him selfish and even a criminal for wishing to do so.

I've been given one life in this world. I dont wish to spend it in servitude to your vision, however glorious you may imagine it to be.

Man was born to be free, not shackled by the state like some work horse to pursue someone elses "well intentioned" vision.

You speak of liberalism caring for the individual through aid. Youc care for nothing Your entire philosophy is that some other individual is morally obligated to support everyone else, and if he doesnt, you will confiscate his property and put him in prison for failing to comly to your beliefs. You even discourage private mercy in favor of some all consuming state sponsored version, which does nothing more than spread the misery over a larger portion of the population while placing the state in almost full control of the nations wealth

First things first, I take a little offense to your seemingly pointed post. If I wasn't then I apologize for the next tirade.

I don't dress up anything nicely. I see the liberalism for what it is with the NDP. I have seen what it can do to a province / state. I live in Canada and see every day what it has caused to happen. I have seen victim mentality first hand as it has brought down some well meaning friends.

Do not tie me to any belief that you think I may have without asking me first.

The purpose of the post was to get a deeper level of understanding from the people here rather then it degenerate into a "its stupid" blow by blow. That's all most seem to be able to do here, so I wanted to see what they were thinking or were they bandwagon jumping without being able to articulate their views clearly.

At the same time, I have seen cons go to the other extreme and not help out anyone in their time of need. I have seen selfishness first hand and seen owners treat their staff like chattle. The staff leave, but the owner gets the last laught by destorying the former credibility with poor references and bad press.

So I ask, what is right / wrong with either seeing how both taken to an extreme can seem bad.

 

[bluepeter]

First things first, I take a little offense to your seemingly pointed post. If I wasn't then I apologize for the next tirade.

I don't dress up anything nicely. I see the liberalism for what it is with the NDP. I have seen what it can do to a province / state. I live in Canada and see every day what it has caused to happen. I have seen victim mentality first hand as it has brought down some well meaning friends.

Do not tie me to any belief that you think I may have without asking me first.

The purpose of the post was to get a deeper level of understanding from the people here rather then it degenerate into a "its stupid" blow by blow. That's all most seem to be able to do here, so I wanted to see what they were thinking or were they bandwagon jumping without being able to articulate their views clearly.

At the same time, I have seen cons go to the other extreme and not help out anyone in their time of need. I have seen selfishness first hand and seen owners treat their staff like chattle. The staff leave, but the owner gets the last laught by destorying the former credibility with poor references and bad press.

So I ask, what is right / wrong with either seeing how both taken to an extreme can seem bad.

I don't think Jersey was directing it toward you specifically but toward everyone left of neo-con in general

 

[RaZor Ramon]

Thank you JA and Mr Plunkey for some insightful answers.

JA, I'm not sure how you see it as an individual hating ideology. However, I do see the idea of the "greater good". At the same time though, it does preach taking care of those in need. Is that not a good idea for the masses?

MrP, yes, I do notice how often liberals are mainly those who are twice removed from the day to day life (except in Canada...ugh). At the same time, I also notice those who are in day to day life are bitter people who gave up on whatever dreams that had a long time ago and "settled". This is not mean to be reflective of EVERYONE who lives in day to day life, just the bitter people that I deal with on a daily basis. Anyways, couldn't I use this to indicate that cons ideology is mainly for those who have settled?

I see where you coming from and I do thing that is the case with a lot of the new found conservatism that spreading like wild fire. With that said, it not always the case. It's the best intrest of those with a lot of money to be conservative. I'm moderate. I'm liberal when it make sense to me and conversative when it makes sense to me but I'd be more liberal if I had to pick one side.

 

[jerseyart]

First things first, I take a little offense to your seemingly pointed post. If I wasn't then I apologize for the next tirade.

I don't dress up anything nicely. I see the liberalism for what it is with the NDP. I have seen what it can do to a province / state. I live in Canada and see every day what it has caused to happen. I have seen victim mentality first hand as it has brought down some well meaning friends.

Do not tie me to any belief that you think I may have without asking me first.

The purpose of the post was to get a deeper level of understanding from the people here rather then it degenerate into a "its stupid" blow by blow. That's all most seem to be able to do here, so I wanted to see what they were thinking or were they bandwagon jumping without being able to articulate their views clearly.

At the same time, I have seen cons go to the other extreme and not help out anyone in their time of need. I have seen selfishness first hand and seen owners treat their staff like chattle. The staff leave, but the owner gets the last laught by destorying the former credibility with poor references and bad press.

So I ask, what is right / wrong with either seeing how both taken to an extreme can seem bad.

What Blue said. It was never meant to be a personal critique of you. I have no idea what you believe, it was a rhetorical post directed at all liberals.

But I acknowledge I have a deep disgust about most things liberal. It is at its core a master/slave philosophy with the same tired "but I take good care of my slaves" mentality

 

[chewyxrage]

Conservatives want less involvement from the government in their personal lives, no?

Bush is a conservative and it seems he is only taking our personal rights away. What's the deal then?

 

[jerseyart]

Conservatives want less involvement from the government in their personal lives, no?

Bush is a conservative and it seems he is only taking our personal rights away. What's the deal then?

What personal rights has Bush stolen from you bor?

 

[UA_Iron]

Conservatives are all for less government interaction...when in reality every single republican president has made the government grow by leaps and bounds. Conservatives like to bash the liberal point of view without subscribing to the fact that their own side is one giant hypocrisy.

I think the US should follow a european model of democracy, like Germany and The Netherlands. More of the middle ground would be represented and less of this extremism would take place. If bush upholds the neocon agenda then he is a radical.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

The heart of every liberal program and idea is redistribution of wealth. Every liberal idea and program is rooted in the idea of taking something from its producer and giving it to someone else.

This is merely theft. If I take what belongs to you, against your will, I am stealing it. Whether I use a gun, or legislation, it is theft.

The most essential rights of all are property rights. If property rights are not respected, then no other rights are possible. If property rights are abrogated, any other rights can be abrogated.

Liberalism does not respect property rights, and therefore, at its core, is anti-person. What greater evil could there be?

 

[chewyxrage]

What personal rights has Bush stolen from you bor?

Patriot act is pretty rediculous. It takes away checks on law enforcement and potentially my privacy.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Patriot act is pretty rediculous. It takes away checks on law enforcement and potentially my privacy.

The problem with the Patriot Act is not how Bush and Co are using it.

The problem is what will happen when future administrations MISUSE it. There are a lot of historical precedents for this; RICO, for example, has been used for much other that what it was intended, including arresting owners of strip clubs where the community did not want them, etc.

ANd surely you are familiar with the Interstate Commerce Act and the way it has been misused / expanded, right?

So you understand, then, that the problem with the Patriot Act is not Bush and Co., it is what will happen in 20 years.

This is off topic anyway. I like peaches.