what now?

[pgsam]

so- i just got done with my 9th week of 5x5. I made great strenth gains, OK size gains, but im not quite sure what to do next. im considering another 5x5 cycle, HST, or maybe setting up some sort of split.

I want to train for strenth and size equally, which is the only reason im a little weary of HST. if i set up a split it would focus mostly on the compound movements. im just throwing shit out there, i guess i need a push in one direction or another. thanks bross

sam

 

[Madcow2]

FYI - if you scroll down the page a bit you'll find a complete write up on Dual Factor Hypertrophy Training which I just added. There is also a word doc linked in the post under Sources which has all of this written out and a better view of the sample program than what this forum allows for in the final post. It's 3 posts back to back (#'s 423, 424, 425). Between the Starr 5x5, HST, and this - that gives you 3 complete prewritten programs that can be incorporated into your macro training cycles. There is some good variation in each option so outside of some highly specialized work to address strength imbalances or cosmetic weakness you should be covered - of course gaining a sense of your own capacity will allow you to better tailor all of these programs and get optimum results.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375215&page=22&pp=20

I'll just add that periodizing your training is absolutely the best route to take. You simply can't do the same mesocycle forever and expect it to continue to work. You'll be amazed how well those strength gains transfer into size as you continue to train though. I've also learned that in nearly all cases, BBers are never satisfied with how big they get and PL/OLs are never satisfied with how strong they got from a given training cycle.

 

[pgsam]

i just realized its hard to ask a question on here that you havent already answered madcow

 

[Madcow2]

To be honest, just about every question has been answered somewhere or another in far more detail than my posts and long before I ever came here. I'm just basically distilling what others have already done and making it more available.

I just added the DFHT earlier today because I kind of got the feeling that people were using the Starr/JS182 5x5 program and not really taking away that the whole reason it's here is to illustrate the proper application of training protocol over longer periods. The idea is that someone creates a macrocycle type program (for non-competitive lifters even a rough 6 month hypothetical can be very valuable) based on proper periodization that addresses their own specific goals, tolerances, and weak points. Specific to BBers they might have phases where they concentrate on foundation style work, specialized work to address weak points, higher rep capacity work in the core lifts, and then even a dedicated strength phase.

The 5x5 with the 3x per weak deloading actually takes care of the foundation and strength in a nice package but nothing works forever and it's really just a cookie cutter program that tends to be setup decently from a load tolerance standpoint to allow most people to progress well. In reality, some people require more volume, some less. Some people are best served by ramping longer and starting lower, while others start high and ramp fast to near record weights. Just so many variables that are particular to individuals but they key is finding a good starting spot and adapting from there - and the 1x per week, train to failure, 3 day split type crap is just so far removed from a program that can generate consistent progress that it's effectively a useless place to start.

Regarding your own progress, I wouldn't worry too much about how much weight you did or did not put on in the 5x5. If your core lifts are increasing in the range of 5x5 - you are going in the right direction. That's a really good range for hypertrophy and strength - maybe the best (or very close to it) proxy for what it is you are striving for or for generating hypertrophy in general. Muscular gain is not linear to strength gain even though there is a very strong relationship in that volume range. Providing you are eating enough it will show up eventually - maybe all at once and surprise the hell out of you. Maybe later on when you switch to a higher rep range for a bit and that strength builds capacity into that rep range. Everyone is different, but you can bet if you best row, squat, dead, and press are going up in the 5x5 range - you are doing it right and if you eat enough, you will gain about as well as possible.

 

[pgsam]

wow- thanks. this is very helpful- just curious madcow, what is your background in weight training? thanks again!

 

[Madcow2]

Basically hobbiest and tinkerer - in all honesty, I've probably lifted maybe 6-7 times in the past 3 months due to a variety of factors. In the past two years I've strung together 3 unrelated injuries that sidelined me for the better part of the duration so I'm as out of lifting as I've ever been - fuckin depressing but that's life. Mainly interests in OL/PL. For the most part, I've just spent a lot of time lifting (17 years or somewhere around) and trying to learn as much as possible from any and every source. There's probably a lot of value in making as many training mistakes and trying as many things as I have over the years, but it does provide a good context under which to learn and integrate more information. Plus, BBing in particular has a way of 'voodooizing' all things training and insultating itself in total training ignorance so I'd prefer to save hard working people who want to learn the years and energy of weeding through that crap looking for what actually works and is used extensively around the world. Sort of a pay it forward type thing. Over the years I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of lifting and learning and I figure trying to make this stuff available is the best way to pay it back. To be honest, if the internet was around and this stuff was available I'd have saved years and years on the learning curve - that said, this way my loss allows many many people to benefit from just making what is fairly common training protocol available and giving people a glimpse into how training is done outside of BBing.

 

[horse52]

I have just finished running the DFHT program madcow is talking about for 2 months while on a cutting diet and am very pleased with the results. My bench, squat, DL and military press all went up considerably and I put some mass on as well while losing BF. I think if you run this program while consuming over 4000cals per day, you will be very pleased (just don't go bastardizing it).

 

[d3track]

I've also learned that in nearly all cases, BBers are never satisfied with how big they get and PL/OLs are never satisfied with how strong they got from a given training cycle.

dear god aint that the truth!