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The Shadow
Guest
That is why I feel that everyone(other than registered felons) should be made to carry a side-arm in plain view at all times.
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HappyScrappy
Guest
doesn't wal mart sell guns? why not just walk back and grab a shotdun and then shoot him?
or one of those riding lawn mowers in the lawn and garden section. like in misery.
or a rake.
or one of those riding lawn mowers in the lawn and garden section. like in misery.
or a rake.
You have got to be fucking kidding me? So the answer to stopping violence is giving everyone a gun so we can blow people away when we have a fight? Oh my god, here comes Joe about to punch me... I'm gonna shoot him in the fucking face. Oh shit, but his friend Bobby has a gun, now he shot me. Good thing my boy Billy is defending me, he just shot Bobby through the eye. But oh fuck, here comes Grandma with an Uzi mowing through our whole crowd.
Yeah Einstein, we definitely need more guns on the streets.
Yeah Einstein, we definitely need more guns on the streets.
Night Fly
New member
I'm not 'anti-gun', but I agree with YellowD here. If I were shopping in Wal-Mart, it would freak me out to know that the customers were just allowed to carry around guns in the store. In that one ladies case...things worked out for the best, but because there are some really ignorant people in this world, I am sure a lot more people would be hurt by allowing this.
People get in a disagreement, they lose their temper, they break out the gun, and someone gets shot. I could see that happening more often than not. Just my opinion.
People get in a disagreement, they lose their temper, they break out the gun, and someone gets shot. I could see that happening more often than not. Just my opinion.
tomcat
New member
It is illegal to have a weapon in your vehicle or on your person without a permit.
In Florida:
You can't have a Bat in your vehicle unless you also carry other Baseball equipment.
You can't carry a gun in your vehicle that is easily accessible.
You can't legally keep a pipe or other long solid type item in your vehicle.
However..
I carry a 5- D Cell MAGLIGHT flashlight in my truck for just such a reason.
Loaded with 5 D cell batteries, it is quite Long, Heavy, Solid Aluminum and formidable. I can keep it legally right next to me in my truck.
I have only used it so far to ward off a Large Dog and a couple of young punks suffering from road rage.
In Florida:
You can't have a Bat in your vehicle unless you also carry other Baseball equipment.
You can't carry a gun in your vehicle that is easily accessible.
You can't legally keep a pipe or other long solid type item in your vehicle.
However..
I carry a 5- D Cell MAGLIGHT flashlight in my truck for just such a reason.
Loaded with 5 D cell batteries, it is quite Long, Heavy, Solid Aluminum and formidable. I can keep it legally right next to me in my truck.
I have only used it so far to ward off a Large Dog and a couple of young punks suffering from road rage.
I don't think that everyone should carry guns. But for someone like me why not? If I walk around with a concealed weapon who does that hurt,,, no one. That is why I don't believe in all of these anti gun laws that are repeatedly purposed that punish law abiding people and not the real problems. Why should me or anyone else not have the right to defend ourselves. Well I guess I could still defend myself without a gun. I mean when a guy twice my size and 3 of his huge drunk strung out buddies come up to me with knifes and baseball bats saying there going to fuck me up good, I can still try to fist fight my way out of it, but who do you really think is going to win or get away alive,,,, sure as hell not me. Probably a different story if I am carrying a firearm. Now that dosen't mean just because people carry firearms when someone looks at them funny or stares them down that someone gets shot in the face.
Perhaps the weakest reasoning behind laisez faire gun policies is the constitutional arguement. All that you are stating is that at one time, namely 200 years ago, it was necessary for people to bear arms. You need to put your arguements into context with modern day society. While I did not wholly agree with matt's arguement, it was more valid than pointing at a piece of paper. It is no stronger than a religious argument using its own text as valid proof. The constitution was never meant to be a static document, but one that is constantly amended to keep with the changing times. You must then prove that the articles within the constitution are as valid today as they were 200 years ago, and that it would be in the best interest not to amend it.
YellowD if your going to use that old anti-gun approach that the constitution was 200yrs ago and that what was appropriate then is not appropriate now,,, well then we should just rip up the whole constitution and totally start over. Hell, maybe we could be a country as organized as China, or Iraq, or maybe even Russia.
The Varnsen
New member
Guns are legal in the USA and the crime rate is like 10 times higher than in Europe...
You should see the reverse of the coin as well... The benefits of a gun-control are bigger that the harm it can cause...
Face the facts!
You should see the reverse of the coin as well... The benefits of a gun-control are bigger that the harm it can cause...
Face the facts!
crash, that is what is so wonderful about our constitution... that it is as applicable today as it was 200 years ago. Thats the amazing progression of democracy, that it is not a stagnant orginization, but an everevolving one. Slavery was made unconstitutional, women's suffrage was amended... my friend, the constitution is far from out of date. But, there are aspects of it, that need some investigation and gun policies are one of them.
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Warik
Guest
Appropriate 200 years ago? Are you fucking kidding me? I'd feel safer 200 years ago unarmed than I would today with a gun.
THe right to bear arms was not put into the Constitution so that people could defend themselves from foreign invasion.
THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS WAS PUT INTO THE CONSTITUTION TO DEFEND THIS COUNTRY'S PEOPLE IN 200 YEARS BECAUSE THE WRITERS OF THE CONSTITUTION KNEW THAT THE GOVERNMENT WOULD TRY TO GROW OUT OF ITS SHOES.
Like Matt always says:
Easiest way to impose martial law:
1) Disarm the people.
2) Impose martial law.
If it happens, tell me again how much you hate guns.
-Warik
THe right to bear arms was not put into the Constitution so that people could defend themselves from foreign invasion.
THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS WAS PUT INTO THE CONSTITUTION TO DEFEND THIS COUNTRY'S PEOPLE IN 200 YEARS BECAUSE THE WRITERS OF THE CONSTITUTION KNEW THAT THE GOVERNMENT WOULD TRY TO GROW OUT OF ITS SHOES.
Like Matt always says:
Easiest way to impose martial law:
1) Disarm the people.
2) Impose martial law.
If it happens, tell me again how much you hate guns.
-Warik
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HappyScrappy
Guest
fuck guns. they are for pansy ass mofos.
we should all be issued 10 gernades when we turn 18. they have to last you the rest of your life. use them as you see fit. but once you run out, you are out.
or plastique - I think everyone should have 10 lbs of it molded to their body, and a detonator - so that way you could just blow people up - granted, you would blow up too, but that would make you think a second to see if it was really worth it to take them out.
or bags of jello. the only weapons allowed are bags of jello. only the skilled fighters would survive.
we should all be issued 10 gernades when we turn 18. they have to last you the rest of your life. use them as you see fit. but once you run out, you are out.
or plastique - I think everyone should have 10 lbs of it molded to their body, and a detonator - so that way you could just blow people up - granted, you would blow up too, but that would make you think a second to see if it was really worth it to take them out.
or bags of jello. the only weapons allowed are bags of jello. only the skilled fighters would survive.
cyberflash
New member
this is a classic example of a lame excuse for pro gun people ...
first of all, there is such a thing as a Thaser gun that sends 2000 volts of electric to an aggressive individual as seen in this Walmart case ... if the security at Walmart had Thaser guns, this guy would have been subdued in no time....
second, there is such a thing as assault-stopping face sprays which can paralayze an attacker ... it's all Walmart's fault ... for not providing enough security.
third, as the incident is told, the other employees were pathetic ... even if they had a Gun ... they wouldn't know how to shoot it ... or they would be trembling with fear and wouldn't know whether to shoot it or not ...
any psycho who will not hesitate to use a knife will always win over a person who hesitates to use a gun.
I have personally confronted 3 people in 2 different occasions ... they had guns and I didn't ... I always won ... it's about not hesitating to defend yourself.
pro-gun people are pussies...
better use a grenade launcher for a sure target ... because your hands will be trembling from fear to cock the gun at the right moment and you might miss ... and if I had a knife ... it will be at your throat dead on... before you can shoot me
first of all, there is such a thing as a Thaser gun that sends 2000 volts of electric to an aggressive individual as seen in this Walmart case ... if the security at Walmart had Thaser guns, this guy would have been subdued in no time....
second, there is such a thing as assault-stopping face sprays which can paralayze an attacker ... it's all Walmart's fault ... for not providing enough security.
third, as the incident is told, the other employees were pathetic ... even if they had a Gun ... they wouldn't know how to shoot it ... or they would be trembling with fear and wouldn't know whether to shoot it or not ...
any psycho who will not hesitate to use a knife will always win over a person who hesitates to use a gun.
I have personally confronted 3 people in 2 different occasions ... they had guns and I didn't ... I always won ... it's about not hesitating to defend yourself.
pro-gun people are pussies...
better use a grenade launcher for a sure target ... because your hands will be trembling from fear to cock the gun at the right moment and you might miss ... and if I had a knife ... it will be at your throat dead on... before you can shoot me
TxCollegeguy
New member
No Non American has the GOD given right to even argue whats best for the U.S. Just like I don't have the right or moral position to say what is right for your respective countries.
This country was founded for the people, and By the people. Not for the government and by the govt. Our Constitution says Our right to Bear Arms is a GOD GIVEN RIGHT. This country was founded by Christians, if your not a christian you still have the same rights, if you don't want to own a gun you still have a right to make that choice, but YOU do not have the right to take it away from the rest of us. There are more Americans who own guns then there are that don't. You will Never EVER EVER be able to take them away from us.
If your an American and dont like it that others have guns, Either get over or move to Canada. Cause you will never have the right According to the Constitution and reguardless of whatever might be going on in Society to change that law. It's one of the Guaranted Rights our Country was founded on and will have to support as long as there is a United States of America
If Laws were ever Passed or attempted to pass on Capital hill to take away guns or laws that become so restrictive it limits those rights beyond protecting the citizens from criminals more civil unrest would follow that would make the demonstrations of the vietnam era look like a boy scout retreat.
as for the thaser gun...the one that shoots 2000volts...Isn't that the kind of gun they used 2 of them on Rodney king while he still attempted to fight back against the cops? Or were they different? I just remember the black police officer hold 2 of them but Old Rodney was too jacked up on PCP to feel a thing
This country was founded for the people, and By the people. Not for the government and by the govt. Our Constitution says Our right to Bear Arms is a GOD GIVEN RIGHT. This country was founded by Christians, if your not a christian you still have the same rights, if you don't want to own a gun you still have a right to make that choice, but YOU do not have the right to take it away from the rest of us. There are more Americans who own guns then there are that don't. You will Never EVER EVER be able to take them away from us.
If your an American and dont like it that others have guns, Either get over or move to Canada. Cause you will never have the right According to the Constitution and reguardless of whatever might be going on in Society to change that law. It's one of the Guaranted Rights our Country was founded on and will have to support as long as there is a United States of America
If Laws were ever Passed or attempted to pass on Capital hill to take away guns or laws that become so restrictive it limits those rights beyond protecting the citizens from criminals more civil unrest would follow that would make the demonstrations of the vietnam era look like a boy scout retreat.
as for the thaser gun...the one that shoots 2000volts...Isn't that the kind of gun they used 2 of them on Rodney king while he still attempted to fight back against the cops? Or were they different? I just remember the black police officer hold 2 of them but Old Rodney was too jacked up on PCP to feel a thing
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martial art vs. 9mm browning semi-auto
so which do you think would win. aren't the security guards over there armed. would it therfore be his responsibility to shoot the crap outta the crack addict.
and why wouldn;t something like CS gas be effective in this situation. or a tazer. or a broom handle.
so which do you think would win. aren't the security guards over there armed. would it therfore be his responsibility to shoot the crap outta the crack addict.
and why wouldn;t something like CS gas be effective in this situation. or a tazer. or a broom handle.
Training4life
New member
learn kung fu!
well i guess u guys dont know anything about martial arts.. so i am going to make this as simple as i can... LEARN KUNG FU!!!!!!!! that shit is some crazy ass motha f*ck'a shiat! TRUST ME if u r a truely skilld kung fu dude u can take down 2 maybe even 3 people while they r shooting at u with a .45!! I HAVE SEEN THIS HAPPEN ONCE when i went to china for a business meeting!!
well i guess u guys dont know anything about martial arts.. so i am going to make this as simple as i can... LEARN KUNG FU!!!!!!!! that shit is some crazy ass motha f*ck'a shiat! TRUST ME if u r a truely skilld kung fu dude u can take down 2 maybe even 3 people while they r shooting at u with a .45!! I HAVE SEEN THIS HAPPEN ONCE when i went to china for a business meeting!!
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ryker77
Guest
Ask Jewish people what happens when a government bans weapons. That was just 50 years ago.
Or the polish, chinese, or cubans.
Or the polish, chinese, or cubans.
guy pulls gun on kung fu dude. kung fu dude begins to move towards guy with gun only to find he is travelling backwards due to a multitude of 9mm bullets entering his body faster than the speed of sound at 1000rounds a minute.
if in very close situation, yeah the kungfu guy might stand a chance. but it rarely happens that way. i live in england and have never had a gun pulled on me with live ammo in it. if i lived in america, i might not carry a guun with me, but at home, you know id be packing some.
if in very close situation, yeah the kungfu guy might stand a chance. but it rarely happens that way. i live in england and have never had a gun pulled on me with live ammo in it. if i lived in america, i might not carry a guun with me, but at home, you know id be packing some.
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BO-CEPHUS
Guest
YellowD and Varn, talk to me about Switzerland then.
All males, 20-42 are REQUIRED TO HAVE PISTOLS AND RIFLES. They have the highest per capita firearm ownership on the planet. They have a equal if not lower homocide rate than the UK and most other European countries. To my knowledge, they have also never had a school shooting.
If you like living in a police state and eventually enslaved by our government, then I understand why you are anti-gun. Otherwise, you are a clueless idiot who has no idea what freedom means. You communist fucks just make me laugh.
All males, 20-42 are REQUIRED TO HAVE PISTOLS AND RIFLES. They have the highest per capita firearm ownership on the planet. They have a equal if not lower homocide rate than the UK and most other European countries. To my knowledge, they have also never had a school shooting.
If you like living in a police state and eventually enslaved by our government, then I understand why you are anti-gun. Otherwise, you are a clueless idiot who has no idea what freedom means. You communist fucks just make me laugh.
BigPhysicsBastard said:
im amazed they havent stuck this law in sooner. i once wnt into a website about guns where they posted scenarios about gun battle situations. one was if a cop pulled u over for a speeding ticket. it didnt end well. the reason why handguns were banned over here is because a dirty old man with paedophilic tendencies shot up some kids in a school. the response has made it really hard for me to get to a rifle club easily and i havent shot for 6 months. if they do instituie laws, i hope the same thing doesnt happen
The Varnsen
New member
BO-CEPHUS i don´t know that about Switzerland, i was talking about the EU... But if they proved they can live with guns so be it... And i don´t think there are too many gun fanatics there... The educational system is much better than there in the USA...
But i´ll ask this to my Swiss friend and i´ll give you an insight in the next days.
Hey, and one more thing, you don´t need to resort to name-calling, because i atleast try to understand your points and all you do is repeat the same arguments to exaustion (sp?)...
But i´ll ask this to my Swiss friend and i´ll give you an insight in the next days.
Hey, and one more thing, you don´t need to resort to name-calling, because i atleast try to understand your points and all you do is repeat the same arguments to exaustion (sp?)...
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BO-CEPHUS
Guest
Do not register your guns. Any paper-trail left behind is what the government will look into first. This will only lead to confiscation if the time ever comes.
I would only buy guns from private individuals.
I would only buy guns from private individuals.
The Varnsen
New member
Hey and txcollege guy who were those guys to speak in the name of GOD? I don´t even know if GOD exists... One more point to prove your Constitution needs some adjustments...
I´m not american but this is an open chat forum and so i can give my opinion, can´t i? Moreover, USA is said to be the most powerfull nation in the world, so the "dominated" countries should, atleast informally, have one or two words to say... ehehe
I´m not american but this is an open chat forum and so i can give my opinion, can´t i? Moreover, USA is said to be the most powerfull nation in the world, so the "dominated" countries should, atleast informally, have one or two words to say... ehehe
the swiss have so many guns because they are paranoid about being invaded and about immigrants.....seriously....thats why there rifles are so good, anshultz's were made to pick off people climbing over fences
seriously though....there army is 100,000. our army (UK) is 100,000. however we have more people and more land than them. they build bridges with a special part where if you put a small bnomb in it, the whole bridge goes down to stop invaders. every bridge in the country. they are preparing for an invasion that aint coming any time soon
seriously though....there army is 100,000. our army (UK) is 100,000. however we have more people and more land than them. they build bridges with a special part where if you put a small bnomb in it, the whole bridge goes down to stop invaders. every bridge in the country. they are preparing for an invasion that aint coming any time soon
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BO-CEPHUS
Guest
Varn, Of course I will use the same arguments. I am consistent in my beliefs. Do you not use the same arguments everytime? You say other countries do this and that, so gun control works.
Someone quoted this:
"The simple fact is that the vast majority of people in the US are not stable of mind enough to be able to handle the enormous responsibility of walking around with a device that could kill someone at the drop of a hat. People get angry enough that they would shoot 5 seconds before they actually thought about what they were doing."
I fail to understand it when people make the argument that if everyone was carrying a gun that it would be armageddon. This really doesn't make much logical sense. Besides, since we're not enforcing gun laws as it is anyone can get one easily and so right now as we speak, people can get and carry guns if they so desire. So the argument that gun law laxity is dangerous is simply an examination of the present state of the nation...not a hypothetical situation to be avoided. Besides, are you going to tell me that laws are the reason people don't carry them? I don't think so. The argument that banning guns will only hurt law abiding citizens is correct. A criminal can and will get a gun no matter what.
Take a look at one state alone: over 50,000 registered CCW's (concealed carry weapon permit). NOT ONE of these individuals was convicted of using the gun in commission of a felony! Take the nationwide number of CCW's...to my knowledge only two cases exist of where a person licensed to carry a gun committed and was convicted of a felony (there very well may be more, two is all I heard at a recent debate). Although it would fit the character of the argument, this number does not reflect guns used by policemen who used them inappropriately (if such cases are recorded event).
Let me also clarify a point that was misstated earlier: In some states, carrying a firearm in the car is perfectly legal even without having a concealed weapon permit. The states definitely vary in their definition of what is legal but some of them allow a loaded gun to be carried in the glove compartment or console without the owner having a concealed weapon permit. Many states outlaw guns carried in vehicles, so my point is that there is no hard and fast rule when it comes to gun carriage in vehicles. The best and only bet is to call the state patrol in your state and ask for clarification.
Training for life, I agree with what you are saying about martial arts being effective in some cases of armed attacks. Here is an example of one case where it was successful:
South Carolina--two armed robbers had been staking out a motel looking for visitors and tourists to rob. They find two men leaving the motel getting into their car. They approach the men at gunpoint and demand money. Within a few seconds, one of the armed robbers was disarmed of his pistol and was unconscious on the ground following a throat and head chop. The other robber was disarmed and the gun was used to shoot him in the head and chest. One of the robbers died and the other had to have extensive medical care just to save his life.
In this story, the robbers had picked the wrong men to attack. These two men were in town attempting to convince a local business to hire them for corporate protection. Both men were special forces vets. One of the men was the hand to hand combat instructor at the training center and had upon retiring convinced one of his students, the other man in this robbery attempt to join him in making a business out of security.
Obviously, the two robbers didn't do their homework and clearly chose the wrong men to rob. However, the point is that in the right hands, martial arts can be an effective tool to back up not having a gun.
However, I agree that just knowing an art does not make one bulletproof nor even to any degree capable of defending against armed attackers. Just like has been already said, hesitation is what kills more people than weaponry. Whether it be a gun or a knife or chair or a martial art, not taking immediate action is a surefire way to have a bad outcome.
This is a good thread debate, and I appreciate the opportunity to express my views.
Take care everyone
"The simple fact is that the vast majority of people in the US are not stable of mind enough to be able to handle the enormous responsibility of walking around with a device that could kill someone at the drop of a hat. People get angry enough that they would shoot 5 seconds before they actually thought about what they were doing."
I fail to understand it when people make the argument that if everyone was carrying a gun that it would be armageddon. This really doesn't make much logical sense. Besides, since we're not enforcing gun laws as it is anyone can get one easily and so right now as we speak, people can get and carry guns if they so desire. So the argument that gun law laxity is dangerous is simply an examination of the present state of the nation...not a hypothetical situation to be avoided. Besides, are you going to tell me that laws are the reason people don't carry them? I don't think so. The argument that banning guns will only hurt law abiding citizens is correct. A criminal can and will get a gun no matter what.
Take a look at one state alone: over 50,000 registered CCW's (concealed carry weapon permit). NOT ONE of these individuals was convicted of using the gun in commission of a felony! Take the nationwide number of CCW's...to my knowledge only two cases exist of where a person licensed to carry a gun committed and was convicted of a felony (there very well may be more, two is all I heard at a recent debate). Although it would fit the character of the argument, this number does not reflect guns used by policemen who used them inappropriately (if such cases are recorded event).
Let me also clarify a point that was misstated earlier: In some states, carrying a firearm in the car is perfectly legal even without having a concealed weapon permit. The states definitely vary in their definition of what is legal but some of them allow a loaded gun to be carried in the glove compartment or console without the owner having a concealed weapon permit. Many states outlaw guns carried in vehicles, so my point is that there is no hard and fast rule when it comes to gun carriage in vehicles. The best and only bet is to call the state patrol in your state and ask for clarification.
Training for life, I agree with what you are saying about martial arts being effective in some cases of armed attacks. Here is an example of one case where it was successful:
South Carolina--two armed robbers had been staking out a motel looking for visitors and tourists to rob. They find two men leaving the motel getting into their car. They approach the men at gunpoint and demand money. Within a few seconds, one of the armed robbers was disarmed of his pistol and was unconscious on the ground following a throat and head chop. The other robber was disarmed and the gun was used to shoot him in the head and chest. One of the robbers died and the other had to have extensive medical care just to save his life.
In this story, the robbers had picked the wrong men to attack. These two men were in town attempting to convince a local business to hire them for corporate protection. Both men were special forces vets. One of the men was the hand to hand combat instructor at the training center and had upon retiring convinced one of his students, the other man in this robbery attempt to join him in making a business out of security.
Obviously, the two robbers didn't do their homework and clearly chose the wrong men to rob. However, the point is that in the right hands, martial arts can be an effective tool to back up not having a gun.
However, I agree that just knowing an art does not make one bulletproof nor even to any degree capable of defending against armed attackers. Just like has been already said, hesitation is what kills more people than weaponry. Whether it be a gun or a knife or chair or a martial art, not taking immediate action is a surefire way to have a bad outcome.
This is a good thread debate, and I appreciate the opportunity to express my views.
Take care everyone
TxCollegeguy
New member
ok now that I'm off work and mid way through my dinner drink I have some time to reflect on this.
Varn Were Americans and more importantly for me I'm a Texan. We don't take kindly to foreigners to begin with cause we get our fair share of new ones everyday swimming across our borders. 2nd The last time the state was able to check on new gun purchases the number of Texans with guns vs not was almost a 4 to 1 in favor of guns. Consider how many million people live in Texas and thats alot of damn guns. On the national level it's almost a 2 to 1 ratio in favor of gun owners.
From a historic standpoint this country was founded by Christians which is evident in every state and in every Govt building in this country. Look at our money more signs. Christian influence is everywhere in this country you can see the influence in our laws as well. Just because you don't believe in god doesn't mean you aren't protected.
You can give your opinion in this forum but your opinion is not valid because you don't live in this country and you can't live the way we live. It would be as if I was going to try and base my opinions for the laws of your country.
Most Americans believe that Every country should make their own choices, Except our Govt has a bad habit of stepping in the shit of others. The people don't always except the choices our politicians make
Varn Were Americans and more importantly for me I'm a Texan. We don't take kindly to foreigners to begin with cause we get our fair share of new ones everyday swimming across our borders. 2nd The last time the state was able to check on new gun purchases the number of Texans with guns vs not was almost a 4 to 1 in favor of guns. Consider how many million people live in Texas and thats alot of damn guns. On the national level it's almost a 2 to 1 ratio in favor of gun owners.
From a historic standpoint this country was founded by Christians which is evident in every state and in every Govt building in this country. Look at our money more signs. Christian influence is everywhere in this country you can see the influence in our laws as well. Just because you don't believe in god doesn't mean you aren't protected.
You can give your opinion in this forum but your opinion is not valid because you don't live in this country and you can't live the way we live. It would be as if I was going to try and base my opinions for the laws of your country.
Most Americans believe that Every country should make their own choices, Except our Govt has a bad habit of stepping in the shit of others. The people don't always except the choices our politicians make
VARNESEN,
For the last time it has been shown by a study conducted by your fellow EU's that Europe and Australia have higher per capita violent crime rates than the US period!
Now, for yellow D, Who said the walmart incident was just a fight, someone was being brutally stabbed to death and then eight other brave unarmed people attempted to help only to get their ass slashed up! If one person had been carrying a gun he could have prevented or she could have prevented possibly the 8 other attacks, he could also have become a victim. Knives are inherently deadlier when ued by someone who has some knowledge of knife fighting. If you don't think so try these statistics on for size.
At 6 feet or less, if you have a gun and a knife is pulled on you, you will have to defend yourself with your hands period.
At 15 feet I believe it is, unless your gun is drawn you will have to fight an attacker who rushes you with a knife. If your gun is drawn, you will still have to apply some defensive tactical manuevers to avoid being cut.
At 21 feet, you will have just enough time if practiced to draw and place two shots center of mass and step out of the way if an attacker pulls a knife on you and rushes at the same time. 21 feet! That is quite a distance. You have a much better chance at surviving a gun battle. Guns work in straight lines, knives work in 360 degrees.
The Constitution is as valid now as it was 226years ago! It is a living document, but not one meant to be aborted whenever someone doesn't agree with it!
For the last time it has been shown by a study conducted by your fellow EU's that Europe and Australia have higher per capita violent crime rates than the US period!
Now, for yellow D, Who said the walmart incident was just a fight, someone was being brutally stabbed to death and then eight other brave unarmed people attempted to help only to get their ass slashed up! If one person had been carrying a gun he could have prevented or she could have prevented possibly the 8 other attacks, he could also have become a victim. Knives are inherently deadlier when ued by someone who has some knowledge of knife fighting. If you don't think so try these statistics on for size.
At 6 feet or less, if you have a gun and a knife is pulled on you, you will have to defend yourself with your hands period.
At 15 feet I believe it is, unless your gun is drawn you will have to fight an attacker who rushes you with a knife. If your gun is drawn, you will still have to apply some defensive tactical manuevers to avoid being cut.
At 21 feet, you will have just enough time if practiced to draw and place two shots center of mass and step out of the way if an attacker pulls a knife on you and rushes at the same time. 21 feet! That is quite a distance. You have a much better chance at surviving a gun battle. Guns work in straight lines, knives work in 360 degrees.
The Constitution is as valid now as it was 226years ago! It is a living document, but not one meant to be aborted whenever someone doesn't agree with it!
Amended, not aborted. There are other options for self defense besides guns. Death is not always the only option for survival. Society is changing, and the laws that guide our society must also change. People make mistakes, and often when guns are involved, those mistakes are irrevisible. We are a civilized nation, lets act like one.
JeetKuneDo
New member
i personally dont beleive in guns, ......
What if someone pulled a gun on that lady, boom! shes blown away regardless of if she has a gun or not ....
We dont have guns in the UK, for which i am glad, i never have to worry .... "will this punk pull a gun?" ... I think if guns were released in this society, there would b chaos, however in the US where you are already conditioned to guns i dont think you can do alot about it ............ around 80% of the UK population has never seen one.
With regards to b attacked by a nife .... learn a basic nife combat class.
Here is a tip, someone with a nife views that nife as their only weapon.... U have many, hands, feet, legs, knees, elbows, head........ use this to your advantage.
What if someone pulled a gun on that lady, boom! shes blown away regardless of if she has a gun or not ....
We dont have guns in the UK, for which i am glad, i never have to worry .... "will this punk pull a gun?" ... I think if guns were released in this society, there would b chaos, however in the US where you are already conditioned to guns i dont think you can do alot about it ............ around 80% of the UK population has never seen one.
With regards to b attacked by a nife .... learn a basic nife combat class.
Here is a tip, someone with a nife views that nife as their only weapon.... U have many, hands, feet, legs, knees, elbows, head........ use this to your advantage.
cyberflash
New member
Anybody who truly knows the Art of War ... knows it's not guns ...
The MIND is the Ultimate Weapon .... use it ... Guns & Knifes are just Tools ...
But at the end of the day ... you know it's quick thinking and very focused cool minds that will prevail ...
The MIND is the Ultimate Weapon .... use it ... Guns & Knifes are just Tools ...
But at the end of the day ... you know it's quick thinking and very focused cool minds that will prevail ...
The second amendment is about the right to bear arms,
this was explictly stated. It was in the bill of rights for people to bear arms against enemies, foreign and domestic.
Our government is becoming the domestic enemy all by it's self.
Wake up, the bill of rights DID NOT give you the right to shoot some suspected criminal. That job is for the courts to decide if they indeed commited the crime and sentencing.
However, self-defense is the only reason to shoot someone. That is also in the bible I believe. If it is not in
bible, then it should be.
Enough said.
this was explictly stated. It was in the bill of rights for people to bear arms against enemies, foreign and domestic.
Our government is becoming the domestic enemy all by it's self.
Wake up, the bill of rights DID NOT give you the right to shoot some suspected criminal. That job is for the courts to decide if they indeed commited the crime and sentencing.
However, self-defense is the only reason to shoot someone. That is also in the bible I believe. If it is not in
bible, then it should be.
Enough said.
W
Warik
Guest
ryker77 said:
It's the year 2001, though, and this is the United States. Can't happen. Nope. Let's amend the Constitution and get rid of guns so crime goes down and everyone is happy.
-Warik
The Varnsen
New member
I wouldn´t want to live n a country where i know everybody can have a gun... What if i get in a discussion over some traffic problem and someone decides to take his weapon off and shoot me? If there isn´t a gun control the probabilities of this happening are much bigger... I can deal better with a beaseball bat or a knife than with a Uzi... And the people are much more confortable using firearms than any of these...
You say that with gun control the criminals get the guns and the law abiding citizen is unprotected... And what about the law abiding citizen that loses his mind and starts shooting everyone in sight? This has happen with perfectly normal citizens... Hot tempered law abiding citizen with a gun is more dangerous than one without a gun... And remember: BEFORE BEING A CRIMINAL, THE CRIMINAL WAS A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN...
You fear your own government... I think you should fear more your fellow citizens whom you have to deal in a daily basis...
You say that with gun control the criminals get the guns and the law abiding citizen is unprotected... And what about the law abiding citizen that loses his mind and starts shooting everyone in sight? This has happen with perfectly normal citizens... Hot tempered law abiding citizen with a gun is more dangerous than one without a gun... And remember: BEFORE BEING A CRIMINAL, THE CRIMINAL WAS A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN...
You fear your own government... I think you should fear more your fellow citizens whom you have to deal in a daily basis...
The Varnsen
New member
bump
TxCollegeguy
New member
One last time for all the anti gun people here
If you think it's not civil to own or use guns and think we should get rid of them I welcome you to knock on my door if they ever try.
Laserdude In the state of Texas If you tresspass on someones property including their home the home owner has they right too shoot and kill you. It's in our State consitution
Anyone Ever seen signs on fence posts in Texas that Say Tresspassers will be shot or prosecuted to the Fullest extent of the law. People here don't dick around with trying to rob those people or bother them. I suggest all you idiots who think your going to take guns away from us do the same. If you don't like guns so much, how about you get onto your reps to prosecute offenders to the fullest. Or try to get over it or move to a policed state, because you will never never never dissarm this country. Might forces the right
If you think it's not civil to own or use guns and think we should get rid of them I welcome you to knock on my door if they ever try.
Laserdude In the state of Texas If you tresspass on someones property including their home the home owner has they right too shoot and kill you. It's in our State consitution
Anyone Ever seen signs on fence posts in Texas that Say Tresspassers will be shot or prosecuted to the Fullest extent of the law. People here don't dick around with trying to rob those people or bother them. I suggest all you idiots who think your going to take guns away from us do the same. If you don't like guns so much, how about you get onto your reps to prosecute offenders to the fullest. Or try to get over it or move to a policed state, because you will never never never dissarm this country. Might forces the right
My reply to the issue of the greater likelihood of being shot by an ordinary citizen over a traffic dispute rather than another criminal is this:
Guns are out there right now in America. There is little or no measures to stop the average citizen from owning a gun right now. That means that anyone who really wants to can carry a gun wherever they go. So the issue again is one that we are already dealing with. Not everyone in this country is carrying guns in their cars or on their person right now. That's their right. However, unless the law decided to require all citizens to carry guns then your worry is not justified.
So the very question you posed about worrying whether or not you'd get shot over a traffic argument is the very reason you'd want to be pro gun...so that you'd have a reasonable way of defending yourself should some lunatic decide to open fire. (Remember, that should someone shoot at you, they have a 30 percent chance of hitting you...should they hit you with a bullet from a handgun you have a 60 percent chance of survival...so this means you would in all likelihood have a chance to get yourself armed in time to respond in self-defense.)
There have been a few places where gun ownership has been required. One such place is called Kennesaw, Georgia. It was mandated that all homeowners be required to own a gun. Several years ago it was like any other Atlanta suburb...with it's fair share of violent crime. Based on data already crime rates of all types have very significantly dropped in this city. Criminals are just not wanting to mess with citizens that can be reasonably assumed to be armed. That's a fact.
As far as a country being better off unarmed in the private sector, one need only take a look at the data in other countries such as Australia where guns have been outlawed in the private sector...the crime rates are growing exponentially. Of course, this is not a rule, but it does slant the scales in favor of the non-law abider.
The issue that law abiders do sometimes go berserk and use a gun in a criminal manner can be applied to any number of things: take cars for instance. they are the ultimate measure in personal freedom in the U.S. Yet every year thousands of people are killed as a result of drunk driving and reckless behavior than deaths attributed to gun violence. The dead people are just as dead no matter what the cause. But that certainly doesn't mean that we should outlaw cars or impose curfews as a result does it? So the case is being made (or it seems to me) that people are just not responsible enough to have any lattitude when it comes to personal freedom. I absolutely do not agree with this mentality. The media has sensationalized the actions of a few to reflect that of the masses and I for one see through this ploy.
As to the issue that one is more likely to be killed by a renegade citizen with an Uzi over a traffic dispute....here's the immediate solution...DON'T GET INTO ANY TRAFFIC DISPUTES! I'm a large sized individual and I even carry a gun for protection, but if someone wants to call me names or give me the finger or cut me off in traffic I let it slide: they have the right to feel however they want about me...I'm a bigger man than that and I'm not going to be controlled by other people. So I don't retaliate or fight about it or try to get even. I just let it slide. Now if someone physically threatens my family or what have you, then that's another matter and I'm well prepared to take counteractive measures.
The bottom line in my side of this debate is simple: what are you going to do when and if the criminals come?
Throw rocks?
Take care
Guns are out there right now in America. There is little or no measures to stop the average citizen from owning a gun right now. That means that anyone who really wants to can carry a gun wherever they go. So the issue again is one that we are already dealing with. Not everyone in this country is carrying guns in their cars or on their person right now. That's their right. However, unless the law decided to require all citizens to carry guns then your worry is not justified.
So the very question you posed about worrying whether or not you'd get shot over a traffic argument is the very reason you'd want to be pro gun...so that you'd have a reasonable way of defending yourself should some lunatic decide to open fire. (Remember, that should someone shoot at you, they have a 30 percent chance of hitting you...should they hit you with a bullet from a handgun you have a 60 percent chance of survival...so this means you would in all likelihood have a chance to get yourself armed in time to respond in self-defense.)
There have been a few places where gun ownership has been required. One such place is called Kennesaw, Georgia. It was mandated that all homeowners be required to own a gun. Several years ago it was like any other Atlanta suburb...with it's fair share of violent crime. Based on data already crime rates of all types have very significantly dropped in this city. Criminals are just not wanting to mess with citizens that can be reasonably assumed to be armed. That's a fact.
As far as a country being better off unarmed in the private sector, one need only take a look at the data in other countries such as Australia where guns have been outlawed in the private sector...the crime rates are growing exponentially. Of course, this is not a rule, but it does slant the scales in favor of the non-law abider.
The issue that law abiders do sometimes go berserk and use a gun in a criminal manner can be applied to any number of things: take cars for instance. they are the ultimate measure in personal freedom in the U.S. Yet every year thousands of people are killed as a result of drunk driving and reckless behavior than deaths attributed to gun violence. The dead people are just as dead no matter what the cause. But that certainly doesn't mean that we should outlaw cars or impose curfews as a result does it? So the case is being made (or it seems to me) that people are just not responsible enough to have any lattitude when it comes to personal freedom. I absolutely do not agree with this mentality. The media has sensationalized the actions of a few to reflect that of the masses and I for one see through this ploy.
As to the issue that one is more likely to be killed by a renegade citizen with an Uzi over a traffic dispute....here's the immediate solution...DON'T GET INTO ANY TRAFFIC DISPUTES! I'm a large sized individual and I even carry a gun for protection, but if someone wants to call me names or give me the finger or cut me off in traffic I let it slide: they have the right to feel however they want about me...I'm a bigger man than that and I'm not going to be controlled by other people. So I don't retaliate or fight about it or try to get even. I just let it slide. Now if someone physically threatens my family or what have you, then that's another matter and I'm well prepared to take counteractive measures.
The bottom line in my side of this debate is simple: what are you going to do when and if the criminals come?
Throw rocks?
Take care
The Varnsen
New member
Hey bro i understand your views but i don´t agree... And i won´t agree in a near future... I think the problems caused by gun-control are offset by the benefits it generates... You think the opposite... Bottom line: It will be very difficult to prove who is right!
BTW as an example i think the benefits generated by cars offset the problems they cause... And cars were designed as a mean of transportation... Guns have been designed with the sole purpose of killing and provoking pain!!! I know we need guns, but i don´t want any Joe Doe to have the right to own a gun... Guns should only be used by professionals...
I wont come back to this subject for awhile...
BTW as an example i think the benefits generated by cars offset the problems they cause... And cars were designed as a mean of transportation... Guns have been designed with the sole purpose of killing and provoking pain!!! I know we need guns, but i don´t want any Joe Doe to have the right to own a gun... Guns should only be used by professionals...
I wont come back to this subject for awhile...
TxCollegeguy
New member
Deadlift if you were to shoot someone defending yourself I don't think many cities in this country would charge you with it. Situations like that are why Texas passed laws to allow it
C
cher-e
Guest
MARTIAL ARTS AGAINST A WEAPON? GET OFF THE CRACK PIPE!!!!!!!!!
JeetKuneDo
New member
who argued martial arts against a hand gun???
that would b ludacris!!! ... try reading the post b4 u reply.
What are the rules in the US with concerns to ownershi of a gun? Do u need a license? .... does this cover home ownership, or does it allow you to carry it with you at all times? .... can anyone get a license to carry a concealed weapon? .... if not, what are the penaltys for doing so? ???? can u have a gun in your car???
Sorry i just aint got a clue .. its amazing how in the UK 80% of people have never seen a gun! ... and altho your arguments are justified about carrying guns, here less than 1% of crime is gunrelated, simple because there are hardly any. This is a good principle, but because u in the US r so used to having guns, it would never work there. 2 b honest when i move to the US, im a little scared about this whole gun issue ... i think im gonna have 2 buy one.
that would b ludacris!!! ... try reading the post b4 u reply.
What are the rules in the US with concerns to ownershi of a gun? Do u need a license? .... does this cover home ownership, or does it allow you to carry it with you at all times? .... can anyone get a license to carry a concealed weapon? .... if not, what are the penaltys for doing so? ???? can u have a gun in your car???
Sorry i just aint got a clue .. its amazing how in the UK 80% of people have never seen a gun! ... and altho your arguments are justified about carrying guns, here less than 1% of crime is gunrelated, simple because there are hardly any. This is a good principle, but because u in the US r so used to having guns, it would never work there. 2 b honest when i move to the US, im a little scared about this whole gun issue ... i think im gonna have 2 buy one.
tomcat
New member
Come on down to Florida. We have legal, Concealed weapons permits and all you have to do is:
Not be a felon
Not found metally unstable by the courts
Attend (without passing a test) a 4 hour classroom course. (No actual shooting involved)
Very few restrictions on where you can legally carry.
I believe in the right to carry, but it scares me that there is not more instruction and actual training required on HOW and WHEN to use your right..
Not be a felon
Not found metally unstable by the courts
Attend (without passing a test) a 4 hour classroom course. (No actual shooting involved)
Very few restrictions on where you can legally carry.
I believe in the right to carry, but it scares me that there is not more instruction and actual training required on HOW and WHEN to use your right..
JeetKuneDo
New member
ok cheers for the info TOMCAT 
apprecated mate.
apprecated mate.
D
DUSTY
Guest
YOU GET BEATEN SENSELESSLY! BLACK EYE BLOODLY LIP, AND FRACTURED BONES.
milo hobgoblin
New member
LOL
anyone stupid enough to shope in a low class ghetto ass shithole like Wal Mart should be carrying a gun.
I would go into one of those illegal alien infested shit holes if you paid me. The opnly place worse than Wal MArt are the .99$ stores.
I think Mexicans buy everything they own from Wal Mart, .99$ stores and swap meets.
anyone stupid enough to shope in a low class ghetto ass shithole like Wal Mart should be carrying a gun.
I would go into one of those illegal alien infested shit holes if you paid me. The opnly place worse than Wal MArt are the .99$ stores.
I think Mexicans buy everything they own from Wal Mart, .99$ stores and swap meets.
D
DcupSheepNipples
Guest
Kill or Be killed!
Enough Said!
Enough Said!
I think Reginald Denny could have used a gun during the LA riots after the Rodney King trial... Got pulled out of his tractor trailer cab and beaten to a pulp for no reason. Well cause he was Caucasian ?? Think in this case if he had a gun and popped a few rounds in those gangstas, they would not have had used bricks on his head or been a kicking bag for them.
He would be the same person before he stopped in that intersection..healthy living a normal life.. instead of so many broken bones in his face, shattered eye socket, busted skull...
Guns are like an American Express card, NEVER LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT !!!
He would be the same person before he stopped in that intersection..healthy living a normal life.. instead of so many broken bones in his face, shattered eye socket, busted skull...
Guns are like an American Express card, NEVER LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT !!!
louden_swain
New member
What happens when you cant defend yourself??
Ask the four dudes who got jumped by the skater. . .actually you can see what happens when you watch the video.
Ask the four dudes who got jumped by the skater. . .actually you can see what happens when you watch the video.
atlantabiolab
New member
YellowD said:
Please do not speak unless what you know what you are talking about. Your idea that the Constitution is a "dynamic/organic" document is not correct. The ideas in it are the foundation of a system of law, not suggestions that are changed with every administration, for if it was there would be no law, simply opinion. Without a system of laws, which the Constitution frames, there is only brute force, whoever can, will do as he so pleases. This "interpretationist" idea of the Constitution is irrational and furthermore incorrect, by the very words of the Framers. It is not the words of the Constitution that give law, but the meaning, their concepts, which are as applicable today as they were 200 years ago.
atlantabiolab
New member
YellowD said:
The irrationalism seen in such posts reminds me of the same irrational fear seen in the anti-industrialists, who scream about so many new technologies, such as GMO grains, rBGH administered dairy cattle, Olestra, Nutrasweet, etc. No reality based examples, only extremely contrived scenarios of armageddon.
"If everyone had a gun we would be a desert wasteland and have to kill for gas, just like Mad Max!!"
atlantabiolab
New member
JeetKuneDo said:
Your extremely restrictive gun laws have not protected you and are actually preventing you from protecting yourself from the ever increasing gun-related crime in England. This example has been shown over and over here in the US, when cities, such as New York outlaw guns and then crime increases. You have the right to not own a gun, but you have no right to tell your fellow man that he cannot lawfully own a gun. Instead, the idea that tougher penalties for gun ownership will deter criminals is implemented, which also never works.
