What do you think?

[R77M]

hey bro's been nose'n around for awhile reading thread after thread. From what I read most of you really know your shit.

I have a couple of questions for you, but first my stats and up coming cycle.

5'10" - 200lbs - 10% bf

week 1 -25mg dbol ED

week 2 -400mg Deca-30mg dbol ED-25mg proviron ED
-20mg Nolva EOD

week 3 -400mg Deca-35mg dbol ED-25mg proviron ED
-20 mg Nolva EOD

week 4 -400 mg Deca-40mg dbol ED-25mg proviron ED
-20mg Nolva EOD

week 5 -400mg Deca-30mg dbol EOD-25mg proviron ED
-20mg Nolva EOD

week 6 -400mg Deca-25mg proviron ED-20mg Nolva EOD

week 7 -400mg Deca-25mg proviron EOD

week 8 -300mg Deca-25mg proviron EOD

week 9 -200mg Deca-25mg proviron EOD

week 10 -off

Post cycle therapy starting week 13 Clomid & Clenbuteral

The reason for Proviron throughout the cycle is to help keep some water weight off to keep blood pressure somewhate stable and to keep a hard look. I can't stand the puffy water look.

Also, I added in the Nolva with the dbol to keep estrogen in check before the Deca kicks in. The last Deca cycle I took shut me down and I had problems with progestoren. Here are my questions:

1. If proviron and Nolva stacked almost completely block estrogen will that reduce dbols effect? Isn't estrogen partially responsible for dbols highly anobolic effect?

2. From what I understand if estrogen is blocked then progesteron problems from Deca won't be a problem. Is that right? And Nolva won't touch progestoren bitch tits right?

3. Will proviron help keep test levels up during the last few weeks of the Deca? can't stand getting shut down and having balls shrivle.

I know some of you are gonna say use EQ instead. I love Deca its a wet dream for the joints. Plus I already have Deca.

Anyway, I tried to do my research before I posted. I know guys can't stand stupid questions. The problem is there is confilcting information on this stuff. Some places say do take proviron and nolva during your cycle others don't .

Thanks for your help. By the way grammar and spelling are not my strong suit. If its spelled wrong just overlook it please.

 

[thx9000]

It looks like you are taking some of everything.... :-\

Why are you starting the Deca on wk2? I mean it's going to take forever to start working (hyperbole) I would think you'd want it in your system as early as possible.

Why use Nolva as your anti-e? It will act to reduce GH levels. Nolva will do nothing to assist with problems from prog you will need bromo or dostinex for that. Nolva wont do anything to keep the estrogen in check, it'll just help prevent the estrogen from binding to certain receptors. You are essentially hoping the provion has greater affinity for the aromatase enzyme than does the Dbol? Is that why it's included or is it in there to just keep your libido up?

 

[thx9000]

Proviron doesn't really keep test levels up, rather it just eliminates the symptoms of low test levels. Sure, it bond with SHBG thereby freeing up some test but the deca will be working to reduce total test produced. Right? Someone please correct me if I am wrong on that. If that's the case and you have had problems with deca before then I think you will have similar problems when you get off this cycle and/or once you stop the proviron. You can run HCG through out to at least help prevent atrophy, though....

 

[magman1]

deca takes a while to kick in...what is the fascination of it...if you're running test, no need for deca or proviron...

 

[R77M]

thx9000 the proviron is for both libido and to keep water retention in check while on the dbol. With the deca it is to help minimize the effects of low test levels. HCG sounds like a great idea. Do you suggest 2500iu every third day for a week mid cycle and then again at the end of the cycle. And what about estrogen. There is dbol that aromatazes rapidly, Deca which is not bad but still some, and then HCG which increase levels as well.

Won't keeping some water off help reduce the chance of injuries from the rapid growth. Especially in the first couple of weeks.

Are you saying I should throw the nolva out and keep it on hand just in case. Or should I run 50mg clomid throughout.

Magman1 I know test. is awesome. But I also know keeping your gains is incredibly difficult even with a solid post cycle regimen. I don't want to stack dbol which is hard to keep gains with test which is hard to keep gains. I don't want to blow up for 8 weeks then lose 80% of my gains 3 weeks after I stop. Not only is that hard on my body it's a waist of money.

The last cycle I took with Deca as my base I gained 25lbs and kept between 18 and 20lbs. Truthfully, my source took 6 weeks to get my post cycle stuff to me. I took tribulus 2500mg a day and work my ass off until the goods arrived. Painful but effective.

thx9000 you are also right about the deca I'll start it on the first week.

Thank you for your replies you are very helpful.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Your logic is sound, but Deca is a bad choice any way you slice it.

 

[thx9000]

I know guys on HRT with 500iu HCG EW, it seems to help with the nut shrinkage problem. Personally, I am worried about running HCG at too high a dose for any length of time, although I have gone with 2000iu every third day for three weeks as a post cycle recovery method. I wouldn’t want to take that much along with other heavily aromatizing compounds mid-cycle…

Bumping for other replies, because my questions before were genuine. I don't really have the experience to answer your questions properly...

 

[R77M]

Ok, I'm still falling short on the Deca problem. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but dbol is a class II that is poor at binding to the androgen receptor. Deca is a class I that has a strong affinity to the androgen receptor. The Deca/Dbol stack is a classic proven stack. I realize test is also a class I, but my reasoning stands. Also, based on dbols poor ability to bind to the androgen receptor shouldn't proviron have an easier time binding and forming a positive effect.

You still have not said what to do about the Nolva.

I read Nelson's thread about HCG, which kind of made me second guess it's ability. What are your thoughts?

Finally, it may not apply since you have suggested Nolva is not the best anti-e. But just for the knowledge. Is estrogen required for growth. It seems, the best juice for mass aromatase the most creating the highest levels of both test and estrogen. Just curious.

Thanks again.

 

[thx9000]

The only problems I can think of with deca are that for some people suppression and recovery are very significant. If you run into prog sides, you have big problems that all the nolva in the world wont fix.

PERSONALY, I would use arimidex or aromasin as my anti-e and keep nolva on hand and probably use with HCG or as a recovery tool. I would be afraid of deca (and haven't used it) without having bromo or dostinex on hand. If you Clomid really does make me too sad and, worse, it tends to destroy my motivation.

I have used HCG/Nolva/Clomid after a 550mg/wk test and 700mg/wk EQ for 12wk. That was a 6wk recovery cycle in which HCG was run 2000iu every third day for 3wk (20,000iu total). By 3wk post recovery my Test/Free test/WB test/SHBG levels were back where they belong (for me) at 768/207/443/27. So, It worked.

Currently, I am recovering with HCG/Nolva (1000iu MWF, 20mg ED) now have been moody lately. Last week was sheer torture, I know no other way to describe it. This week...I am just a little down not really depressed...just down. I'm not really sure if it's high e from the HCG or just the results or rapidly declining test levels (last CYP shot was Sep 2nd, so levels really started to tank last week). I felt this way recovering in the past, same week of torture and everything. I am wondering if this is just how I deal with declining test levels. Would certainly make sense.

From what I have read estrogen is required for all kinds of things. See this thread: http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=251421&highlight=estrogen

 

[R77M]

I appreciate all your responses and the information you provided. I feel I can now make informed changes to my cycle and get the biggest bang for my buck.

Lift hard and grow fast!