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Week 1 of "The Freak System"

FREAK19

New member
Well im starting my program for my bench and squat. But im only gonna post about my benching. Here is how week 1 went.

BAR-1x10
135-1x10
1x5

225-1x10
250-1x10
280-1x10
305-1x10
330-1x10

225-1x17

DB flyes
Incline presses
Pec Dec
Pullovers

It was a good but tough first week. 6 more to go.

Freak19
 
are you getting into bodybuilding?

why are you doing all that junk?

you are gonna wind up like the rest of us that went down that road for 10+ years. It looks like progressive overload to me.
I can tell you I have done 455/7 raw when i was younger. That was probably the strongest repping I have ever done. When I did my 580, I probably couldn't have done 455/3. But who gives a shit.

You have some awesome numbers. If you wanna be one of the really good powerlifters, try and shy away from all that stuff.

You know how I blew my pec? Well, after a successful 580 bench using the westside system (i didnt really even know what i was doing), I decided that I wanted to go back to repping and get a lot bigger. You wanna see pictures of my blown pec again?

Go to westside's board and look at all the 500+, 600+, and now 700+ benchers they've turned out. Their shit works, especially on the bench.

I am NOT trying to rag on you. I just want you to take advantage of all the people out there that fucked themselves up that way.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

/irish
 
Ive been training this way since I started lifting. This works for me and I want to keep training this way. I know of some powerlifters that only train with high reps. Have you ever heard of Josh Bryant, well anyways thats all he does is high reps. I like my way of training it has gotten strong. And it helpes me out alot in my powerlifting. So I plan to do with what works, because everyone is different.

FREAK19
 
Yea I also know a powerlifter(bench press only) that trains with nothing but HIGH reps up until about 6 weeks before a comp. Donald Robbins is who I am talking about. Most of his bench workouts look like this:

135x20
225x20
315x20
365x15
405x8-10
225xfailure(usually around 30 reps)

Then he does three sets on inclines and hits some pushdowns and thats it. Sometimes the weights and reps will be different but thats about what most of his bench workouts look like.
 
How are your next 6 weeks set up?

8's
6's
4's
3's
2's
1's



all your assessory movements are for chest?, or do you allternate them each week?
 
Jagermeister
Here is a example of the reps:
wk1
5x10
wk2
1x10-5x8
wk3
1x10-1x8-4x6
wk4
1x10-1x8-1x6-3x4
wk5
1x10-1x8-1x6-1x4-2x2
wk6
1x10-1x8-1x6-1x4-1x2-1x1
wk7(max out week)
1x10-1x5-1x3-3x1 your last set is your max set.

All the weight increases each week. You will know what I mean next week when I put up week 2.

I try to change up all my other movements that are non-powerlifting. Just so I can hit my muscles better.
 
Hypertrophy will contribute to growth. I don't see it as ideal from a Powerlifting POV, but if it works for you....keep at it!

Any sort of set periodized scheme here?

-Zulu
 
freak:

josh bryant was at the meet i just competed at. he totaled 2100lbs at 308 and 21 yrs old. He is an awesome lifter.

Like you, he is young.

You are right to a certain extent. Do what works for you. All I am saying is that I think you have a significantly higher chance of injury as your numbers get higher and higher. I made it till 23 before my first injury.

I hate feeling like a snake-oil salesman, but i'll throw one last pitch in.

Dave Tate and I were eating dinner one night when he came to do a seminar in seattle. We were laughing about getting older, aches and pains, and talking about all the injuries. One thing he said which stuck in my mind is he wished someone would have told him about a different way to train before he had all of his injuries. I feel the same way.

Sorry for sounding like i was crapping on your program. I'm not. I am sure you are going to be at a National's soon with a good total. Just keep an open mind.


/irish
 
ZZuluZ said:
Hypertrophy will contribute to growth. I don't see it as ideal from a Powerlifting POV, but if it works for you....keep at it!

Any sort of set periodized scheme here?

-Zulu

I disagree. Imagine you had identical twins (genetically identical) and both twins had trained their nervous systems to the same level, but one twin carried ten pounds more muscle. Who would lift the most (assume equally good technique in both lifters)??

Gaining muscle has a place in powerlifting......that is why you rarely see a big bencher who has small triceps (I believe PLJay has 20 inch 'guns'. Look at the pics of Ryan Kennelly......huge uhhh everywhere. The Mann has serious arms too by all accounts).
 
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Freak: If this plan doesn't workout for you well, are you going to go back to whatever you were doing before? IIRC, you were doing bodybuilding movements, kind of like ed coan does. You are strong as hell though, so it obviously works for you, which is what every lifter needs to find out.

You were naturally strong and big, i think, and these characteristics usually allow you to get away with getting stronger any way you train. I'm jealous :) . Perhaps you are like Coan an can train consistently with periodization and still progress... even though theorectially everybody cannot do that forever because it is too taxing on the body.

If this works for you, that's great, and i wish you luck. I know we will all see great things from you. At the end of a cycle of periodization, though, I would probably take a week off to recoup. Do some GPP and band work but take it easy for a bit. I'm sure you will do what you feel is right. Good luck.
 
How could you disagree?

Sure hypertrophy is beneficial but training with maximal weights usually results in better gains as illustrated anecdotally by 90% of powerlifters out there. Not to mention that they already include hypertrophy inducing work in the form of assistance exercise.

-Zulu
 
Hell, I don't see anything wrong with training like that especially if it is just to mix things up. Westside is a great method but I think you should do whatever - high reps, low reps, fast, slow, etc. as long as you enjoy it.
 
I look at like this. YOu can up your raw bench, or it may completly stop moving. But i feel like alot of shirt power is built through Max effort day anyway.

Lets take me and my partners for example.
JImmie Dean doesnt max out raw but when he does i would say he is probably at 425 or so raw. Maybe more. But he not only did 523 at his last meet, but he did it fast and easy. He can lockout a ton.

Ron is 181 lbs his raw bench has gone as high as 450lbs. But even though he bombed his last meet he opend with 500 lbs. He got it with in 1 inch from his chest and locked it out. And at this point he is hittin 405 for 2 reps.

Both of these guys' raw bench really hasnt moved in over a year and change. But... both of there board presses and accesory work has gone up, way up! Ron does board presses with no bands with 545 on the 4 brd. Jimmie does about the same. But the 4 brd to Ron is like a 5 or 6 to us. He is little!!

Now me, my raw bench, and i have thought about this alot. It hasnt gone up really either. Last year i was reppin the same as i am now. I maxed out at 545 touch n go no shirt last year. Now since i dotn pause its hard to tell what i would pause raw, and determine what i get from my shirt. But when i did 545 i did a 585 bench (shirt). I am thinkin what the hell is that? Technically these guys get more out of there shirt then i do. But ... My lockout is high. (or should i say was high before my meet). I did 700lb free weight with my shirt off a 3 brd. But as most of you knwo i have been really battling aches in injuries. My left shoulder cant take too much more. The ONLY time it bothers me is free weight raw benching. My last meet i truly seen were i could improve my speed. So as of Now iam gonna try it.

But i got great results from my program and hittin reps on the bench. It works. But it only goes so far as a carry over to shirt benching. Cause i bench lesss now then i did last year (probably) raw touch n go , but i can lockout a good bit more then i did then too.

Two weeks i have been doing speed, then i do 3 sets of singles working up to 75 to 85 % of a shirt less max to see if iam still fast. Thats were i fucked up the other night. I guess thats not neccesary. But the first week i seen i could improve my speed and this monday i felt alot faster. My goal now is to be freakin fast as shit!!. I go up to 300 at the bottom becasue i hit over 600. But its last and if th espeed is slow i drop down. This monday my 300 was the same as my 275, and alomost as fast as the 225. So as you can see i am excited abou tthis and since i am switching to westside with a 600 bench already we'll see if it works!!

Freak do what you do. It works and you are getting stronger. When i benched what you do , it went up constantly. And so did my shirt. Until you hit a rut do what you do. You will eventually hit a rut. If you dont then its fair to say you will total 2700lbs one day. Then you will need to re evaluate your routine. But as long as th enumbers go up go for it. Your injury free and young.

BUt i will let you know if this westsdie is working. I mean hell how much can i possibly lose off my raw bench. I can freakin do a nose breaker with 405!!! If i get weaker, way like some who have tried it , then i thorugh it in and go back to my way. By then i will be healed enough to do some heavy raw reppin. If i get stronger then i will probably always keep at it.

Sorry this is so long , but i see where he is coming from and if it works dont mess with perfection! Its cool to bench alot raw, i am usually the last wrming up at meets for this very reason, but look at Glen Chabot. He can bench 665 raw but hit 722 with a shirt. His raw does nothign for his contest bench, and when money is at stake (like my next meet) who cares what you bench raw!! Right Irish? Dam!! Did i say that??
 
pljay:

you are chasing some monster numbers and aspire to be one of the strongest benchers ever so i would say this to you:

no one gives a fucking shit what you can do raw. As Pantera would say "Yesterday dont mean shit". I constantly fight with my ex-training coach about this. He was a 644 bencher with a single ply poly. I will never be able to bench 600 raw with confidence because of my blown pec, but I *may* bench 600 or more because of shirts. I can lock it out now without pain from a 4 board with a single poly. I am not crying because I can't do it raw.

Do you want to be one of the best? The one who goes to the WPO meets for cash and wins? Well, then stop worrying about your raw bench!


freak19:

you are young and strong as hell. I only say the things i do because i was there once. You are stronger than I was when I was your age. To me, this just means you are going to be heading to injury territory sooner. Unless your goal is to lift in the USPF or USAPL, you are not maximizing your potential by doing a lot of raw training for reps. I know, i know.. it works.

*everything* works for awhile.

The key to this sport is longevity. I have seen quite a few of the young guys I competed against when I was young burn out early and not make it to the 30s to compete. I was halfway there myself (blown discs, torn pec). The younger people learn that there are alternate ways to train, the longer they are gonna last in the sport and the greater they are gonna be when they are 30+ years old. As Gary Frank once said, you don't develop "man strength" until you are 30+. I love this because I am 30 now :)

Good luck both of you guys.

/irish
 
a bit off topic but anyways...

sometimes reading the posts on this section of the board makes what i do (my #s) seem absurd. have u guys walked the streets lately? have u been to a shopping mall or a restaurant? have you seen your mailman? people just aren't this strong. it's very inspiring to see the other board members hit such large numbers. i wonder what % of the population pushes 400lbs on the bench much less 500+. sometimes i forget that barely anyone, especially none of these class acts over at the local 'social' (gym), can hit anywhere near the range of the guys/ladies at a powerlifting meet.

when you lift on a constant basis in hopes of being great at a sport such as this one, it's hard to see that the rest of the world is so weak. this must be how the nba star feels going to a neighborhood park. the lifts of joe blow who still doesn't bench 1x bodyweight must be insulting to some of you. i realize that everyone is at their certain level but i have relatives brag to me all the time how they were so strong back in the day benching 1x what they weighed. what???? 1x bodyweight?

many of u here are total animals and are doing things that other people simply cannot understand. i just want to applaud everyone on all the PRs and all the PRs to come. it's great to be a part of such a great community.
 
FREAK19,


on week 5, 6, and 7 you are hitting above 90%,

It might be just me, but my strength startes to go down after week 2 of above 90%.







Jager
 
"It might be just me, but my strength startes to go down after week 2 of above 90%.
"

Easy to burn out the CNS with max weights. Usually OK for three weeks tho...

-Zulu
 
Damn Twitched, where do you lift at lol??? Actually where I live there have been very few people that I have seen bench over 315 other than myself, one of my lifting parners, Donald Robbins, and maybe two other people at my gym. SO basically just five of us, that is where I lift, now in the meets Ive been to I have seen anywhere from 100 to 500 plus benches.
 
I know my program aint westside. And I know that most of the people here dont like the way Bodybuilders Train, but this is the way I like, I made a total of 1950 training this way. I dont always do high reps. The highest I normally go is 10 reps. I also know that someday my way is gonna stop working for me, and when that happens ill go to something else. Irishpower my uncle also told me that when im in my thirties my numbers will shoot up incredible. When he was between 34-37 im not sure, he did an incline with 620 for 3 reps and a forced rep on the 4th. He also did a 405 military from reps between 4-6. And yes he did get an injury, he had a minor torn pec but it wasnt from doing reps. It was just from training heavy. So I look at it as an injury can occur anytime. Doing anything. But it does mean alot to me that you would look out for a younger lifter. Cause trust me you dont find that too often from other people. So I thank you for looking out, and I mean that.

Jagermeister
On week 5-6 my very last set (6th set) the % is at about 90-95. Then week 7 is max out week so that is 100%. Are you trying to figure out something for your bench? If so let me know what your bench max is.

lilmikey
Then only thing I did different with my training when I started powerlifting was adding deadlifts. Of course for my BP, SQ, and DL my reps and sets changed, but everything else stayed the same. Then my buddy of mine who is a football coach that got me into powerlifting gave me this program to try and ive been doing it for 2 years already, of course not back to back just off and on for 2 years. So to answer your question, I dont know what I will do if this stops working for me. Hopefully it wont. But if it does ill think of something.

Freak19
 
ZZuluZ said:
How could you disagree?

Sure hypertrophy is beneficial but training with maximal weights usually results in better gains as illustrated anecdotally by 90% of powerlifters out there. Not to mention that they already include hypertrophy inducing work in the form of assistance exercise.

-Zulu

90% of powerlifters? And where did you pull that little number from?? How many powerlifters did you speak to in order to arrive at this number 'anecdotally'??

BTW why is it that even your 90% of powerlifters incorporate 'hypertrophy inducing work in the form of assistance exercise'? Doesn't that contradict your first point just a little?? Your 90% of lifters also do hypertrophy work.....so they aren't just sticking to training with maximal weights....therefore you cannot say that they make the gains through using maximal weights.

BTW heres a link to an article written by an experienced powerlifter who also uses his head (if you can truly relate the number of degrees somebody has to cognitive ability). Interesting how he incorporates a hypertrophy phase huh?

http://nbaf.com/nbaf/aug7pgl.html

Heres another....concerning none other than Ed Coan:

http://www.geocities.com/kory_wnuk/files/coan01.html
http://www.geocities.com/kory_wnuk/files/coan01.html

So although you cannot see how somebody might disagree with you on the point of incorporating hypertrophy, it appears to work (if you disagree, please head over to Goheavy.com and tell Mr. Coan....I'm sure he will change everything up to satisfy you).
 
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regarding coan's routine-- it has its own flaws. IMO it sucks, but that is open to debate.

EX-
"While not as trendy-sexy as newer models, this is the most effective system of strength building ever devised. Period."

There is no "most effective" system. Shame on the author.

"Ed Coan designs a cycle for you: We asked Coan to apply his cycle logic to a hypothetical 270 pound bencher who wanted to break the 300 pound barrier: "We can do it, but it'll take a thirteen week commitment from the lifter."

LOL! If coan (or anyone else) can increase their bench press by 10 percent every 13 weeks (which is exactly what this program CLAIMS to do) then he would be benching over 1000 pounds by now.

The author of that article was clearly not using his head.

This workout is no better than any standard bodybuilding + a core lift pyramid workout. May as well follow a FLEX magazine workout and cut the sets in half. Not saying it is a bad thing, if it works then do it.
 
ImNotDutch, most powerlifters incorporate maximal work followed by hypertrophy assistance. They do not subsistute maximal work for higher reps as Freak has done.

That's all I'm going to say.

-Zulu
 
ZZuluZ said:
ImNotDutch, most powerlifters incorporate maximal work followed by hypertrophy assistance. They do not subsistute maximal work for higher reps as Freak has done.

That's all I'm going to say.

-Zulu

Really? What do you base this assumption upon? Blanket statements are far from convincing especially when you failed to answer the questions that I asked in the last post. It looks remarkably like ducking the issue.

It took me about 5 minutes to find two lifters (one good, the other arguably the best) who don't agree with you.

Check out other boards and you will see that there are many systems out there.
 
Latinus_spicticus,

Your points are well made. I agree that there is no most effective system.

I see your point about repeated cycles of periodisation. I have used similar systems, but quickly found that you cant expect to get the 10% increase every time. It worked ok the first time.....but after that I had to switch things up (go figure!!!). I think that there is some selling of the routine going on here :). Maybe people like Freak19 can make good progress through repeated cycles though......

The only thing I don't agree with is that the routine is as bad as something out of Flex mag. That was kinda harsh I think.....I would reserve that title for those that advocate doing 1000 sets per bodypart.

latinus_spicticus said:
regarding coan's routine-- it has its own flaws. IMO it sucks, but that is open to debate.

EX-
"While not as trendy-sexy as newer models, this is the most effective system of strength building ever devised. Period."

There is no "most effective" system. Shame on the author.

"Ed Coan designs a cycle for you: We asked Coan to apply his cycle logic to a hypothetical 270 pound bencher who wanted to break the 300 pound barrier: "We can do it, but it'll take a thirteen week commitment from the lifter."

LOL! If coan (or anyone else) can increase their bench press by 10 percent every 13 weeks (which is exactly what this program CLAIMS to do) then he would be benching over 1000 pounds by now.

The author of that article was clearly not using his head.

This workout is no better than any standard bodybuilding + a core lift pyramid workout. May as well follow a FLEX magazine workout and cut the sets in half. Not saying it is a bad thing, if it works then do it.
 
Imnotdutch said:


Really? What do you base this assumption upon? Blanket statements are far from convincing especially when you failed to answer the questions that I asked in the last post. It looks remarkably like ducking the issue.

It took me about 5 minutes to find two lifters (one good, the other arguably the best) who don't agree with you.

Check out other boards and you will see that there are many systems out there.

People train the way that works best for them. You may have found examples of people that trained better one way over westside, while Zzulu found others. Either way... there isn't really a reason to be a dick about it.
 
"Either way... there isn't really a reason to be a dick about it.
"

Precisely.

Why would I pursue this issue? There's not really any point.

-Zulu
 
lilmikey said:


People train the way that works best for them. You may have found examples of people that trained better one way over westside, while Zzulu found others. Either way... there isn't really a reason to be a dick about it.

At risk of looking like a dick again.....in fact I am sure that will come across this way!

I would first like to apologise to Freak as this is his thread...ok here goes.

I should point out that I have nothing but respect for almost all of the people that frequent this board.....that is why I come here.....I know I will learn something from lifters who are very knowledgable, experienced and of extremely high ability.

However, I tend to treat people the way that they treat others. zzZuluzz's posts come across as aloof and he makes blanket statements and represents ideas as facts in a sport in which it is rarely possible to do this. If you do this, and misrepresent the way things are I will always ask you to justify the points you make.

In order to demonstrate why I don't feel too agrieved about acting like a dick when zzZuluzz is concerned, let me link to a couple of posts that he made recently:

Third post down: http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=1627502#post1627502

Twelfth post down: http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=1627523#post1627523

I have asked zzZuluzz to justify what he says.....and he will not. He just kicks out a grossly modified version of his original ideas (the ones that nobody could possibly disagree with apparently). That is ducking the issue.....you'll have to forgive me for calling it the way I see it.

I have in the past supported zzZuluzz. I have even sent him pm's stating this. He has alot of good information.....but as stated above, in this thread he is misrepresenting the way things are.

Finally, I agree with your point about there being different approaches......that was my point.
 
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I figured your posts might just be a personal attack towards me.

If you actually feel like discussing something, let me know.

-Zulu
 
FREAK19 said:
Imnotdutch
No need to apologize. Just as long as im not brought into the discussion without knowing.

Thanks.....I for one am extremely interested in how you train....your numbers speak volumes.

Anyhow, as of now I figure I'll quit posting on this thread until there is something to discuss. I have asked questions and given the opportunity for replies (which would constitute a discussion / debate.....the purpose of this board).....but none have been forthcoming. So there is little point in trying to make my point.

As for the comment about Halo......lol. Kinda funny.....but the only Halo I know about is the one that occasionally slips (ok more than occasionally) from being balanced on top of my head.

zzZuluzz I think you missed the point of my last post.....it was not a personal attack. It was me talking to you, and giving my opinions, in the manner that you talk to others (which if I recall was a bit of an issue on another Elite board). I think that you have seen the point that I was making as you edited one of the posts that I referred to to give a decent answer rather than just typing 'BULLSHIT' (a direct quote). However, it is clear that I am failing to make my point concerning training, and I prob wont get the answers I asked for in earlier posts (hence there is no point in asking to discuss anything with you), so I'll move on.
 
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I have discussed plenty of things with plenty of people. You think I'm incapable of debating this issue?

Half your posts have been ad hominem attacks towards me which I have no intent of pursueing.

Your hypocrisy is blatant. But by all means, continue to pollute this thread.

Stop addressing yourself to me. I made some bad posts and you think you're doing the board some good by jumping inot threads following me and posting crap about me?

Again, the irony here is stunning.

-Zulu
 
ZzuluZ

Dude going off topic here i just wanna say, dude your vocabulary and words lose me bro!! I dont know if you have a thesaurus right there with you, or you are a extremely educted person, but you lose me.

Every thing doesnt have to be scientifically anaylized. Does it? I am just saying there are so many that are too hard to expalin why they work for some and not others. BUt lets say for instance you are a genius, tell me your program? Listen bro i am in no way messin with you. I am dead serious i am giving you the benefit of the doubt on your intellect. I am curious to see what you think is the best way to train. I also wanna no your lifts. Not to say "oh i lift more so your wrong" . No way woudl i do that. I probably started before you, but let me know your gains you made from day 1 till now. I asume your clean too, so again i dont intend to compare lifts, for i am not. So do not be defensive or use big words for me!!LOL!! Just make it simple for me. And by the way how old are you?
 
How is my vocabulary scientific?

I guess Ive grown accustomed to a more extensive vocabularly from all the philosophical/religous debates I have on other boards. I don't purposefully use difficult words...If I did; you'd really notice it ;)


"or you are a extremely educted person, but you lose me. "

I'll take this as a compliment.

"Every thing doesnt have to be scientifically anaylized. Does it?'

Now you lost me.

"BUt lets say for instance you are a genius, tell me your program?"

Why am I genius? WTF? My program is hard to describe. Arioch has seen it.

"you. I am dead serious i am giving you the benefit of the doubt on your intellect. I am curious to see what you think is the best way to train."

I don't think there is a best way to train. It all depends on goals, restrictions, genetics, work capacity, etc... Do you mean for powerlifters?

I don't feel like stating my lifts. They're not very impressive. I've been lifting for a year.

I'm 16.

-Zulu
 
Well for starters i didnt say your vocabulary was scientific. I was just saying it was broad.

You are obviously a reader. So though your eduction is limited at 16 you do study weight lifting.

Ok maybe i shouldnt have scientifically anaylized, just anaylized. Your percentages you come up with. Your idea's of hypertropy not being used in powerlifting, and the CNS being the deciding factor in a lifters ability. Do you knwo how many top liftes i have spoke with? I know more then you have read about. Maybe not all personally but i know how most of them train. And surprisingly alot train with reps and no ME work for little off seasons. And periodization in the season with westside movements. Gary Frank is as old school as one gets. No westside, he trains 2 to 3 days a week. Heavy every week in season. He is big and full of muscle. I think your theories are wrong on hypertropy, and CNS and what you say X amount of powerlifters do to train. How come when i go up n weight i get stronger? Nevermind dont answer it. You just read my own questions back to me and make me sound stupid for asking.

And if you dont have success with your program change it. You obviously have not had much success with it if your uncomfortable , not stating your lifts , but showing us your progress with it. When i was 17 , 18 years old i gained like 25 to 30 lbs of muscle my first year or so. I didnt even know what powerlifting was. I just repped out on bench and maxed every week. Went from 185 to 265 at 15 to 16 then took year off dropped down to 200 max on my return and then went from 200 to 315 with in 6 months. Most work was periodization type training and hypertrophy. My arms and muscles got big quick. If you cant say the same for yoru training then maybe its wrong. theres too much thinkin involved. Just lift the freakin weight till you cant anymore, stopping one rep from failure and you get stronger!! Dam thats simple!

If your training is too complicated to talk about, then i know its a routine that probably looks better on paper then it actually is.

You have no clue how to peak for a meet or keep from peaking too early. I am not flaming you i am just stating what i see. And guys like you and Hannibal are like a walking powerlifting encyclopedias but really are beginners in my eyes, who need some gym time and meet time under your belt before you can speak from experience and not a magazine article, or quoting others lifters and people. I am sorry if i am coming off rude or whatever , but i just cant take your advice to seriously and for months its been that way here on the board.

Not to say yoru opinions dont count they do. But if someting works for someone and that is what they do to train, use your opinion but dont dare say its not right. Because there living proof it is. Freak is stronger then most people will ever become. I dont train his way. But i wouldnt tell him its wrong cause he makes gains on it. Hundreds of pounds. He has put more on his total then most people total!! It doesnt work? Mine doesnt? Franks, and Coans doesnt? You keep training your way and avoid increasing your muscle size and if yoru goal is to be a 123 lb powerlifter with 1100lb total then so be it. But i got bigger goals. I train and eat to be big and strong.

One last thing concerning CNS and hypertrophy and training. I personally can tell wheni am taxingmy CNS. I knwo when to back off before my trainng goes back wards. How ? Why? Cause i got experince. 3 weeks at 90% is true for some. Maybe maybe not. Depending on your training you might go 5 plus . I have maxed out on the bench and squats for 6 weeks every week and pR each time. Maxing on both each week.

My point of this was get out of those freakin books and just get your little ass in the gym and train!! Trainhard too! Powerlifting is fun and its easy. You make sound so fuckin complicated, from your research. The CNS, Hypertrophy, your percentages, your theories, and even direct quad training. I am sure theres more, i do not follow your posts outside this board but you get my point. I dont care what your little books say, i know what me and my boys lift. And guys in my gym who have 1 year of lifting dont give advice they ask it!! Try it you might learn something for once. I love golf been playing, for a little over a year now (not much lately) but even though i have ideas i wouldnt fuckin dare give out advice to guys that are 20 stokes below me!!
 
" Your idea's of hypertropy not being used in powerlifting,"

WOW. What a blatant misrepresentation of my views. I feel hypertrophy is very important in acheiving maximal strength.

" And if you dont have success with your program change it. You obviously have not had much success with it if your uncomfortable , not stating your lifts , but showing us your progress with it. When i was 17 , 18 years old i gained like 25 to 30 lbs of muscle my first year or so. I didnt even know what powerlifting was. I just repped out on bench and maxed every week. Went from 185 to 265 at 15 to 16 then took year off dropped down to 200 max on my return and then went from 200 to 315 with in 6 months. Most work was periodization type training and hypertrophy. My arms and muscles got big quick. If you cant say the same for yoru training then maybe its wrong. theres too much thinkin involved. Just lift the freakin weight till you cant anymore, stopping one rep from failure and you get stronger!! Dam thats simple! "

Good for you. Of what use is sharing my stats? It's compltely meaningless because:

1.) I don't take steriods or supplements.

2.) My wrist size is 6.5 inches which is very important.

3.) I weigh 160.

4.) I've only been training for a year.

Etcetera ad nauseum.

" If your training is too complicated to talk about, then i know its a routine that probably looks better on paper then it actually is. "

It's becoming clear your post is only one huge ad hominem attack towards me. It is not simply better on paper. I have shared it with Arioch to get some feedback. I have no intention of sharing it with you. That is all.

" You have no clue how to peak for a meet or keep from peaking too early. I am not flaming you i am just stating what i see. And guys like you and Hannibal are like a walking powerlifting encyclopedias but really are beginners in my eyes, who need some gym time and meet time under your belt before you can speak from experience and not a magazine article, or quoting others lifters and people. I am sorry if i am coming off rude or whatever , but i just cant take your advice to seriously and for months its been that way here on the board. "

WTF are you on about? Where have I given advice about peaking for a meet???? If you want to flame me or Hannibal than do so over PM.

"
Not to say yoru opinions dont count they do. But if someting works for someone and that is what they do to train, use your opinion but dont dare say its not right. Because there living proof it is. Freak is stronger then most people will ever become. I dont train his way. But i wouldnt tell him its wrong cause he makes gains on it. Hundreds of pounds. He has put more on his total then most people total!! It doesnt work? Mine doesnt? Franks, and Coans doesnt? You keep training your way and avoid increasing your muscle size and if yoru goal is to be a 123 lb powerlifter with 1100lb total then so be it. But i got bigger goals. I train and eat to be big and strong. "

Do you always go off on tangents irrelevent to the topic? That was rhetorical. If it works for Freak that is great. If something works....stick with it. Never will you see me espousing anything different. You obviously want to categorize me negatively-fine.

" One last thing concerning CNS and hypertrophy and training. I personally can tell wheni am taxingmy CNS. I knwo when to back off before my trainng goes back wards. How ? Why? Cause i got experince. 3 weeks at 90% is true for some. Maybe maybe not. Depending on your training you might go 5 plus . I have maxed out on the bench and squats for 6 weeks every week and pR each time. Maxing on both each week. "

Um, so what?

" My point of this was get out of those freakin books and just get your little ass in the gym and train!! Trainhard too! Powerlifting is fun and its easy. You make sound so fuckin complicated, from your research. The CNS, Hypertrophy, your percentages, your theories, and even direct quad training. I am sure theres more, i do not follow your posts outside this board but you get my point. I dont care what your little books say, i know what me and my boys lift. And guys in my gym who have 1 year of lifting dont give advice they ask it!! Try it you might learn something for once. I love golf been playing, for a little over a year now (not much lately) but even though i have ideas i wouldnt fuckin dare give out advice to guys that are 20 stokes below me!!"

I just lost all respect for you. Obviously this is meaningless to you.

You promote ignorance. And you're not the only one. I think it's sick and disgusting and a vile representation of society.

Tell you what: The day Arioch tells me to get off the boards, I'll do it. Till then, I couldn't care less about your stats or your experience or even less what you think of me.

You could have phrased yourself cordially but it's obvious what your point is-- to attack me personally.

Nice job.

-Zulu
 
Zulu,
Look I dont have anything against you. I read your arguments on my thread, and hey its your opinion. So I didnt really care. But dont come to this board and post on my thread and talk bad about my teammate/friend. It just doenst work that way. Maybe you should listen to PLJAY, he knows alot. He has taught me alot of things that I didnt know. He is on his way to the top, maybe you could to if you just listen. In other words if you wanna talk shit, take it to PM. I dont wanna see you putting down my friend on my thread.

FREAK19
 
ZZuluZ- woa bro, slow down, dont take everything personal. I assume from your response that powerlifterjay pissed you off. Dont take it personal bro, Im sure he didnt mean it as an attack on you personally or your training or anything. Powerlifterjay from what I have seen from him on the board and from the numerous pms and emails I have sent him, he is nothing but helpful and here to lend a helping hand to whomever wants it. And even though you may not agree with what he says he has a valid point, not saying you dont, just saying he does. All he is saying is that you dont have to complicate things. Also, some things may sound good and look good on paper but once you try them, it may be the most fucked up mess ever. He is just saying dont rely on everything you read in articles, books, etc. Sometimes real life experience is worth more, at least in my opinion. I have tried the workouts that sound good and look good on paper and they sucked shit. When I first came on here about a year ago I talked to powerlifterjay about his workout. I didnt like the sound of it because it sounded so simple and I was also afraid of not getting results. Well I tried it anyway, I mean hell his numbers speak for themself, and you know what? My bench went from 285(raw) to 335 (raw) in 24 weeks, I still have a training log to prove it. I didnt follow it to a T but I took what I liked out of it and modified it between his workout, westside, and Ed Coans and boom there was my routine. Im not attacking you bro and Im not punking out to powerlifterjay or swinging on his nuts, Im just saying his real world experience has helped me and your crack about him promoting ignorance was a little uncalled for. He was just giving you his advice, take it or leave it. And I know what your going to say, who cares what his routine did for me, no one is trying to get into a pissing match with you we are all just here to help each other. I hope your routine and all your hard work studying pays off in the end for you bro. Good luck.
 
Oh yea, Sorry Freak for junking up your thread with this but I hate to see someone who has helped me get dogged on.
 
Yeah, I'm the bad guy. The 600 pound bencher said nothing to rile me up.

Twice he addressed himself to me for the sole purpose of insulting me. Sugarcoated or not.

I never doubted his intelligence orknowledge. But I want stand by and watch as I get insulted.

Peace.

-Zulu
 
2.) My wrist size is 6.5 inches which is very important.

I have never heard about wrist size being a factor unless they are weak.My wrist ache some, so I wrap them when I get heavier in weight.

Can you please explain?

ZZuluZ,I have read your post on this board and think you have alot to offer.I think you took powerlifterjay comments the wrong way.I think powerlifterjay has made good points and has experience and numbers to back it up.Nothing personal,just been training longer.I have been lifting for 6yrs.Over the years I have read and experimented with different programs,some good some bad.But experience is one of the best learning tools you can have.I am still learning things,and have learned alot from these boards.Some routines and exercises have worked,some havent for me.

I would give anything to know what you know when I first started working out. I didnt know shit when i started working out.Later
 
Last edited:
Freak- how come you arent going to post your squat workout? I think it would be informative to see what you do to get your big squat.
 
"Can you please explain? "

Yes, there is a direct correlation between wrist and ankle size and what kind of strength you will achieve.

-Zulu
 
ZZuluZ said:
Yeah, I'm the bad guy. The 600 pound bencher said nothing to rile me up.

Twice he addressed himself to me for the sole purpose of insulting me. Sugarcoated or not.

I never doubted his intelligence orknowledge. But I want stand by and watch as I get insulted.

Peace.

-Zulu

ZZuluZ,

You need to relax and cool down here. Powerlifter Jay was right on the money in his posts.

Jay speaks from professional powerlifting experience not all just from textbooks, muscle mags and muscle physiology books. He is one of the best benchers anywhere and he knows what he is talking about.

There is a big difference between reading about training and doing it. I am willing to bet that Jay knows a lot more about benching now that he can bench 600 pounds than when he benched 300 pounds. ZZ, Listen to him and you will learn a lot and at a paltry 160 pounds you have a lot of room to grow so listen to him and train hard.

I just paused benched 435 (at 242 in the gym this week.) Its not great by many standards but I am definately much smarter and know a lot more about benching than when I did 315 pounds in 2001. A lot of my progress came from taking the training advice from people that can bench a lot more than me.

You are better off asking directions to a Temple by asking people who have been down the path and know the right roads than asking people who study maps but haven't actually been down the road themselves.
 
CytoMel: i agree with you 150%

as well:
small wrists, and no steroids will never be an excuse, in my eyes.


learn from your own body. use books as an inspiration, not a black and white rule book. not everything is black and white.

most of all, go heavy and train hard
 
ZZuluZ,

Dude i swear i didnt mean to piss you off. I type long so alot comes out. But wheni asked your opinion on a routine, you just quoted my questions and didnt answer. Thats cool.

You try to make me sound ingnorant for asking. Now i promote it! LOL!! You make me laugh for real. Bro i am sorry, and i will never respond to you again. Good luck, your gonna need it!
 
You folks need to stop revering people with magical poundages and physiques.

There is something called knowledge and it something we should all strive for.

Now, I'm getting off this particular board because frankly I have learned nothing from it. I've got to start reading a lot more and stop wasting time here.

Few people on this board know what they're talking about. What people don't understand is that correlation does not equate to causation. If you're big/strong that doesn't mean you know shit.

If that was the case we should all open FLEX magazine.

Now, I urge all of you to open a few books. Never take someone's word blindly for anything. Learn something.

My goal in life is not to push arbitrarily huge numbers. I have bigger goals than that.

And with that, I wish all of you the best of luck.

Deciever, best of luck man.

Cheers,

-Zulu
 
Ok then, what the hell are you powerlifting for if you dont desire to move big numbers. Bottom line, as long as you are stronger than the next strongest guy, you win the competition. Maybe you didnt get strong by your "knowledge", who the hell cares?? Your strong and thats all that counts on meet day. Last meet I was in I didnt get asked how many books I read that day. I agree, knowledge is of great importance but you just honestly sound jealous that you are not pushing big numbers so you are attempting to make up for it by saying that you are smarter. OH well, I am through with you just as I am through with SSALEXSS. And about these magical poundages, I am sure that anytime you want to train with anyone on this board to see if they are telling you the truth then they would be more than happy to lift with you.
 
this is definately a good thread turned bad. alot of times people feel challenged when their views/methods are put down or commented on the board. none of us are really looking to argue. i think boards like these are setup to help people who have similar goals get together where they never would have under regular circumstances. no where else would i have found the help i received from benchmonster, irish, pljay, hannibal and others. these guys took time out to help me with my problems and i would definately do the same for anyone who came asking me. that's the joy of being associated. unless they're hiding in caves somewhere underground, there aren't a ton of powerlifters in my area. i have no idea what equipment to buy. i have no idea what other people are doing. what if i've been fucking up forever? what if someone who has had my same problem reads one of my posts and helps me fix it? i have yet to get into a discussion shootout with anyone here. it's not really what i came for. i'm just here to get strong, and with a little help from my friends (these board members), i'll be there one day. this is a sport that matters to me.

i was chatting with bfold through PM and we agreed how helpful and kind the guys are on this board, just willing to lend an arm and a leg to help other guys out. lets ditch the negative part and get on with more effort into making each other better.

just my rambling .02
 
To All Who read Here!!

Well i feel bad if ZZuluzz doesnt come back. I just wanted to help and he took ti wrong. Maybe i was too harsh. But those that know me know i am raw. Alot more in real life then here actually. But most of the time my intentions are good. I just feel confused when i read some of his posts. Me and Freak were talking in the gym tonight and i told him i thought ZZULUZZ was a man in his 30's with tons of college and shit!! No matter but when i realized he was reading more then producing i thought he was not only confusing me but newbies here as well. Maybe he wasnt. But i think he is hurting himself. When you let your mind set restricions becasue someone else says what your limits should be. Screw that!! ZZuluz no flame but the wrist size thing is th ebiggest crock i have ever heard. Lee Priest (bodybuilder) has small wrists and ankles and though he is no powerlifter he can bench 500lbs. And he is 5'4 and small boned. I knwo he takes drugs. But i can name some other guys too. Kenny Snell master powerlifter is 114lbs and deadlifts 500lbs and benches 280 in single ply. Squats over 400. He is my home town (rival gym though) He has been drug free for life. Multi time world champ. He is as small as a twelve year old child!! Set restrictions on your self and see how far you get. Your mind believes what you think is possible. You are not a powerlifter if you truly believe that. I absolutly love hearing "you cannot do that, its not possible" . Oh Ya? Watch!! I can see were our personalities are night and day.

I got a vidoe clip sent to me of Ryan Kennelly benching 622lbs in 1998. He just hit 780lbs. If you dont think i see myself benching not only 700 but mid to high 700's your wrong. Its mind of matter!! When i was benchign 365, 500 was someting that seemed impossible. But once i got 500 i knew 100% that i would get 700 one day. Screw 600lbs. There are a few guys here on this board that will hit it within a year or so. Then they will want 700. I want it all!! No limits.

Guys powerlifting is fun. Its part of my life. I live around it. My life style is 100% of that a powerlifter. Without it i would have a void in my life. I am just trying to say that forget the mags and online stuff, cause even though its mostly right on, you don tfollow shit 100% by paper. Listning to my body sayin its tired, or its growing, or getting stronger, to its hurt, or injury is coming is something you must learn to do. What works for George Halbert aint gonna work for you. Not yet. A modified version will.

Blah ,blah , blah!! Guys most of you already knwo this, so i will stop. Sorry if anyone got offended. ZZuluz i wont ever reply to you again, for i do not want to spread my ignorance that i have been promoting!! But seriously you dont have to leave the board. I want you to stay.
 
I've found that out myself.. powerlifting is probobly 50% attitude/50% technique. I'm a mathematician by trade, so I'm no dummy..yet I feel my greatest gains come when I am at a peak in aggression, not when I've just read a new article.

Learn to tap into those animal instincts..


By the way, I am interested in that wrist thing..

I am 5'9", 190lbs pretty lean, and my wrist is only 6 fucking inches..never thought it could be an issue..
 
Deciever
My squat program has the same pattern as my bench and deadlift. I started it last week as well so if you wanna know how week 1 went here it is:
325-1x10
380-1x10
435-1x10
475-1x10
500-1x10
It is a pretty intense workout. It doesnt look it. But trust me sets of 10 are a B***H. Look for my post 2morrow for my bench.
 
FREAK19 said:
Deciever
My squat program has the same pattern as my bench and deadlift. I started it last week as well so if you wanna know how week 1 went here it is:
325-1x10
380-1x10
435-1x10
475-1x10
500-1x10
It is a pretty intense workout. It doesnt look it. But trust me sets of 10 are a B***H. Look for my post 2morrow for my bench.

Impressive numbers!I bet your legs felt like jello.

I didnt mean to get off topic on your thread earlier.
 
ad hominem : Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives.
Hey I had to look it up! Didn't know what the fuck he was talking about!

Anyway Zzulu...if you have still been reading thid post ...grow up...quit acting like a 16 year old boy! Pjay was simply giving you advice and you take it as an insult...I am a bodybuilder , not a powerlifter...but if a bodybuilder of pjays abilities wanted to take the time to share some of his knowledge....I would love to hear it.
I have 24 years of experiance and a whole hell of a lot of knowledge to go with it....but I can always learn more.
 
Deep squat ,

Dont feel bad bro, i had to look up up a shit load of words that i didnt understand! And actually found some that didnt make sense!

Thanks for the words.
 
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