Want to try Creatine... Any experiences good or bad

[PhysicalGirl]

I know creatine is not a sugar. MOST creatine products add some form of sugar. She can try it if she wants I find that different things work for different people. There always coming out with some creatine that does'nt use sugar as a delivery system.

I do find that most women that try to put on muscle to fast end up storing fat and looking bulky.

I have seem some women (The naturally skinny women that have a hard time gaining weight) that can do just about anything and not hold any water or store any fat. Women like that can try anything.

 

[RottenWillow]

Creatine is not a sugar and it doesn't work by making you bloated. Some of the creatine products contain CHO, but unless it is 50 + grams, it is unlikely to have much effect enhancing creatine uptake.

The water retention experienced by some may add a mechanical advantage but the primary mechanism is an increase in intramuscular Cr and PCr, and some La buffering that over the long run will help build muscle/strength because of increased mechanical loading from the extra rep or two.

Until I see a paper on other forms of creatine, particuarly the creatine titrate that is ill defined (chemical formula) by the mfgs, I'd stay with creatine monohydrate, just watch the dosing and take it with food and plenty of water. A substance that sits in the small intestine can draw water out of the small intestine and cause osmotic diarrhea. Taking it with food to slow the amount in the small intestine per unit time should help.

If the creatine doesn't cause water retention, I question how much creatine per se is in the product. That was one of the selling points of liquid creatine and the reason it didn't cause water retention was because it was mostly creatinine by the time you ingested it.

Could be that some of these other products are a creatine salt and 5 grams only equals about 2 - 3 grams per dose. Remember a water molecule added to creatine accounts for less of the total weight per dose than citrate or another salt. Just do the math.

W6

Everyone needs to carefully re-read Wilson's post in you havent already. There are a LOT of very commom myths and misconceptions about CM. Just because you've heard something about CM a hundred times doesnt make it true.

 

[wilson6]

Sugar itself isn't the delivery system, it is the insulin response to the CHO that appears to enhance the creatine transporter and subsequent uptake of creatine. However, once you max out the creatine in the muscle, it doesn't really matter what else happens.

Supplement companies tend to overstate the literature findings. In the case of adding sugar or CHO to creatine, it takes almost supraphysiologic levels of insulin to enhance this response which translates into about 100 grams of pure glucose. The amount of CHO in most creatine dosing is way less than what would actually work, but it only takes a little to shut down lipolysis.

And there is so much individual variation in metabolism and genetics as Pgirl stated that is is wise to use the product most suited to your metabolism. If you store fat easily, then avoid creatine products with any CHO.

and...you do have to watch how you read my posts. They are usually to the point and often times come across as "attack mode", but they aren't. Just to the point and usually based on lit findings not anecdotal evidence particularly with well researched topics such as creatine.

W6

 

[PhysicalGirl]

Are you nit picking because your bored. I know the sugar itself does'nt deliver the creatine. They ADD the sugar for the purpose of helping to get more creatine in the muscles.

On that note any huge sudden increase of insulin can potentially cause you to store fat.


Also I've used different kinds of creatine before and I find that it causes me to hold water and store fat. I've manage to build a nice amount of lean muscle without it.

I'm not telling any females not to use it. It may work for them but does'nt work for me.

 

[Daisy_Girl]

Are you nit picking because your bored. I know the sugar itself does'nt deliver the creatine. They ADD the sugar for the purpose of helping to get more creatine in the muscles.

On that note any huge sudden increase of insulin can potentially cause you to store fat.

Also I've used different kinds of creatine before and I find that it causes me to hold water and store fat. I've manage to build a nice amount of lean muscle without it.

I'm not telling any females not to use it. It may work for them but does'nt work for me.

W6 doesn't "nitpick" because he is bored - he has A LOT of useful information (anecdotal and research-based) that clarifies and explains many common misconceptions as well as explaining more "complex" things here. Most people here are not scientists or experts, they are simply "normal" people who are trying to better themselves. W6 tries very hard to offer them the CORRECT information to help them make descions based off their bodies and their goals.

There always coming out with some creatine that does'nt use sugar as a delivery system.

This is your statement - so while YOU might know sugar isn't the delivery system and simply misstated, a 'newbie' to creatine is reading your post and using your statement to help them understand (wrongly). This is what W6 tries to prevent.

We all make misstatements, word something wrongly, or say something that is misinterpreted. What W6 is doing is trying to educate all of us - because no matter what our backgrounds are, more education is ALWAYS a good idea. Learning makes us better.

 

[PhysicalGirl]

From my experience I'v e learned that no one can figure out someones elses body. Also research is not 100% accurate. I've read all the research myself and it still did'nt all work the way that the results showed in a test.

I origanally was telling 2tone that in my experience with creatine this is what happens. It does'nt work the same for everyone.

 

[wilson6]

"Are you nit picking because your bored?"

Oh man, I only wish I could find time to be bored. LOL

Details are important and provide mechanisms of action. Just knowing that something does without knowing why doesn't do much good.

I'll try and get back to this tomorrow. You have made some good points PGirl and there is support for what you've experienced.

W6

 

[wilson6]

"I've read all the research myself "

OK PGirl, now I'll nit pick because you've read all the research, not bored, just have a minute.

Creatine caused you to store fat. Why? There is a peer reviewed study out there, recent one that potentially explains why. So tell us why?

W6

 

[RottenWillow]

Creatine caused you to store fat. Why?

W6

I thinks she's saying she felt that it caused insulin spikes which in turn caused fat storage.

Absent published and peer reviewed research wilson do you feel its possible that CM could either directly or indirectly encourage fat gain?

 

[wilson6]

This abstract is the one I was ref to.

Now they didn't measure insulin, so we don't know if that is part of the mechanism and creatine doesn't alter substrate utilization during exercise, do don't panic if you take it before cardio. Lastly, how much of an impact this really has is unclear and it was done in guys. Same effect in women, we don't know and I'd like to see this replicated with mechanisms and also in women.

Huso, M. Erik, Jeffrey S Hampl, Carol S. Johnston,
and Pamela D. Swan.

Creatine supplementation influences substrate utilization at rest.

J Appl Physiol 93: 2018–2022, 2002.

The influence of creatine supplementation
on substrate utilization during rest was investigated
using a double-blind crossover design. Ten active men
participated in 12 wk of weight training and were given
creatine and placebo (20 g/day for 4 days, then 2 g/day for 17
days) in two trials separated by a 4-wk washout. Body composition, substrate utilization, and strength were assessed
after weeks 2, 5, 9, and 12. Maximal isometric contraction [1
repetition maximum (RM)] leg press increased significantly
(P< 0.05) after both treatments, but 1-RM bench press was
increased (33 +/- 8 kg, P< 0.05) only after creatine. Total body
mass increased (1.6 +/- 0.5 kg, P< 0.05) after creatine but not
after placebo. Significant (P < 0.05) increases in fat-free
mass were found after creatine and placebo supplementation
(1.9 +/- 0.8 and 2.2 +/- 0.7 kg, respectively). Fat mass did not
change significantly with creatine but decreased after the
placebo trial (2.4 +/- 0.8 kg, P < 0.05). Carbohydrate oxidation
was increased by creatine (8.9 +/- 4.0%, P < 0.05),
whereas there was a trend for increased respiratory exchange
ratio after creatine supplementation (0.03 +/- 0.01,
P < 0.07). Changes in substrate oxidation may influence the
inhibition of fat mass loss associated with creatine after
weight training.