Want to gain and keep 10 real pounds after a cycle

[chazk]

I will give it a try, seems like more anabolic than androgenic. Do i need anything else like HCG or clomid, and how long should be better?

What about the dosage: increasing than decreasing?

I am old school.
I would taper up and down ..

week 1 300mg ew /anavar 40mg ed
week 2 400mg ew /anavar 40mg ed
week 3 500mg ew /anavar 40mg ed
week 4 600mg ew /anavar 40mg ed
week 5 600mg ew
week 6 600mg ew
week 7 600mg ew
week 8 600mg ew
week 9 500mg ew /anavar 20mg ed
week 10 400mg ew /anavar 20mg ed
week 11 300mg ew /anavar 20mg ed
week 12 200mg ew / anavar 20mg ed
week 13 100mg ew/ clomid 50mg a day
week 14 clomid 50 mg a day
week 15 clomid 50 mg a day


Some guys do not taper and just start PCT . That is becuase they are going to hit another cycle in 3 months and be back on the juice anyways.
You seem like you just want to do maybe one mild cycle a year.
That cycle above is perfect for gaining 10lbs of soild muscle
no bloat , little if any water, little if any acne.
By adding 10 grams of glutamine and 5 grams of creatine post cycle ed for another 3 months alomng with 400grams of protien you will hold onto the gains longer.(like you should prob be doing every day reguardless)


you will not blow up fast and the gains will come slowley over the 3 month time.No fat face or abvious sighns of a " juicer "
i would use clomid over the HCG , I do not think you will be shut down that hard from the cycle above,plus hgc can raise estrogen and cuase some water retention.

some guys are gonna suggest test, and other harsher drugs but rember the more androgenic vs anabolic the cycle the more side effects such as acne , bloat, fat face and the usual signs that will give it away to every one your on juice.
So i think more anbolic vs androgenic is the way to go for soild gains.
If you want to see rapid strength increased then maybe add a low does of test to it as well. But rember the more drugs and higher mg of steroids used the harder it will be to recover and keep the gains.

 

[Pich]

Chazk Man, your explanations are good, thanx a lot

 

[halfcenturian]

I'm a noob so my advice is bullshit...

But maybe consider t-bol as a lovely addition to whatever injectable you should choose... Primobolan - methenolone - /masteron/test p maybe? Just throwing shit out there.

Tbol is for Girl Scouts, and old men like me for bridging purposes. Too weak.
If you're running Mast/ Primo/ Test P, I would add either Var or Halo.
Better yet, skip the orals and add TREN.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Any gear can make you grow. It's keeping it that's the hard part.

There's no guarantee you'll keep 10 pounds. No matter what, the body will give you what it wants and no more, but you can put the advantage of your side. Do a proper PCT and continue training hard after coming off, and get enough sleep. (A big overlooked component).

As for supps, BIG BLAST, DX7 and VIGOR will help maintain lean size once you're natty.

 

[stressman13]

My next cycle for 16 weeks will consist of,
Equipoise (boldenone undecylenate) 300mg
sustanon 300mg ew
Proviron 50mg ed
The advantage of boldenone undecylenate is the quality of lean musel but the steady gains over a long cycle (16 weeks)
Instead of using sustanon you could use test testosterone cypionate.

Thats kinda low for EQ man. Ive run it up to 800 a wk and it stilled seemed pretty mild. I wouldnt go less then 400 or 500 a week. Thats just me tho.

 

[Tatyana]

LOL tatyana " almost back to normal "
juicers can expand the fascia around the muscle sacks and cuase some growth that would have never been achieved being natural.

I garantee you show me a massive lean " all natural " and I bet 99% of the time he juiced many years ago.

take for example a guy 6'2 240lbs all natural ,, then a guy 6'2 240lbs that have been off steroids for even 5 years but as built him self back up.
I know the ex juicer will have more seperation, fuller muscles and better shape even if they are both the same exact weight and body fat.

That is true, you can also get that from putting on a lot of weight (getting fat)

I do know some natural for life BBers, in fact two of them inspired me to get into competitive BBing (they trained in my gym).

My coach is a natural for life BBer as well.

I do have a lot of pics of the nattie lads in the UK.

Most don't believe they are natural.

Natural BBing is HUGE in the UK, so much so that the UKBFF/NPC has introduced a category called 'classic bodybuilding' and dropped their regulation that you can only compete in the UKBFF.

Their numbers at comps went up as the naturals would mainly compete in the two natural feddies.

The BNBF is clean for 10 years (it may be 5 now due to the international organisation they are associated with), and the NPA is natural for life.

They take it seriously as well, and they have 'outed' a number of cheats in a very public way.

The NPA told me I was to provide a urine test at my first comp I won with them (they thought I had too much muscle to be a nattie), but when I went skipping back to the technicians they said it wasn't necessary

They did ban me for a year though because of grass.

They are that serious about following IOC regulations.

Most competive naturals I know don't do low carb diets either, doesn't work that well with being natural.

I am going to ask a few other natural pros I know if I can use their piccies, and I may start a thread.

I know you lads love your juice, and there isn't anything wrong at all with enhancing your physique, but at the end of the day, it does come down to genetics, and there are some that manage to do a lot with theirs without gear.

 

[SaladFork]

That is true, you can also get that from putting on a lot of weight (getting fat)

I do know some natural for life BBers, in fact two of them inspired me to get into competitive BBing (they trained in my gym).

My coach is a natural for life BBer as well.

I do have a lot of pics of the nattie lads in the UK.

Most don't believe they are natural.

Natural BBing is HUGE in the UK, so much so that the UKBFF/NPC has introduced a category called 'classic bodybuilding' and dropped their regulation that you can only compete in the UKBFF.

Their numbers at comps went up as the naturals would mainly compete in the two natural feddies.

The BNBF is clean for 10 years (it may be 5 now due to the international organisation they are associated with), and the NPA is natural for life.

They take it seriously as well, and they have 'outed' a number of cheats in a very public way.

The NPA told me I was to provide a urine test at my first comp I won with them (they thought I had too much muscle to be a nattie), but when I went skipping back to the technicians they said it wasn't necessary

They did ban me for a year though because of grass.

They are that serious about following IOC regulations.

Most competive naturals I know don't do low carb diets either, doesn't work that well with being natural.

I am going to ask a few other natural pros I know if I can use their piccies, and I may start a thread.

I know you lads love your juice, and there isn't anything wrong at all with enhancing your physique, but at the end of the day, it does come down to genetics, and there are some that manage to do a lot with theirs without gear.

You look really amazing Tat, from what I can see, you train you ass off and it shows. I’m really glad there are people on both sides of the spectrum here. Love seeing people train natty and getting killer results (makes me feel like the shit I did wasn’t for nothing). It’s amazing what people with good genetics can do with or without gear. I don’t want to contradict anything I say below so I will say yes I do plan on doing three cycles (my first), but not for awhile. Now I feel confident that I will be able to manage my diet, my lifting and three cycles comfortably. And by spending the time and doing the research, doing the blood work I can determine what is best for me and when to start.

I’m not some master body builder, gear god or nutritionist but get enjoyment out of seeing progression, so weight lifting and playing with food is a perfect fit. Not to mention the positive influence I feel it gives me and the people around me. And I can see where a lot of guys want to speed that process up. I am one of them, and with some helpful advice from guys here who ARE on gear or have done gear helped me decide what was best for me (and it was not to start pinning myself).

I believe a lot of guys who train natural would like to be on the juice but do not have a connection or knowledge to do so. Not to mention in the US the marketing for almost every supplement has some crazy claim about being able to gain 8 lbs of muscle in 14 days. Or lose 10% body fat by taking a pill. We are seriously brain washed. I’m guilty as charged, go ahead point the finger at me. We all buy into this bullshit because it has fancy labels and an outrageous price tag (IT has to be good, it cost $99.95) not to mention the guys who claim to be drinking, eating or taking the stuff. You’re from the UK check out this book by a British author called “Status Anxiety”, you all should read it.

As Americans we want things FAST, (once again guilty as charged) and love instant gratification. Fast food, fast internet, fast cars and girls who put out BEFORE the first date. We also love the sound of being able to put a small chemical into our bodies and become beast like the guys some idol (once again guilty as charged).

But I read something you wrote, not sure where… You said “You don’t think a lot of these guys train as hard as they should have naturally.” I have to agree with you (I feel the people who are active on this forum do a AMAZING job looking out for all us newbs and thank you) and I don’t think a lot of people who juice know really how to diet, do the proper exercises or rest. And they all feel gear is the solution and they are not willing to listen to anyone but the ones how give shitty advice. I’m not saying anyone here, but I’m saying from my experience with a lot of bodybuilding forums online, most people have no fucking clue wtf they are doing while in a gym or with eating. And most people will not take advise from people online giving negative advise against the ‘thing’ they are asking about, whatever it may be. <- Did that make sense?

Guess what i'm trying to say is it’s nice to know people have a place to come and get friendly advice from people online that are not pulling for the same goal. It opens eyes (for those who read it) and can make you just a little bit smarttteeer. Plus having some brainy scientists around is cool also.

Ready to take some karma hits on this one…
g-nite

 

[Tatyana]

I have been training with weights since I was 15-16, but only BBing for the last 3-4 years.

Most of my training buddies are men, first one was the biggest and strongest guy in my gym.

I was told by the gym owner (a former competitive BBer) to train with him if I wanted to compete.

6 foot, 18-20 stone (252 lb-280 lb/115kg-127kg) and never over 15% bodyfat.

He told me that he burned out training partners, most gave up, and if I wanted to train with him, no moaning, do what he said.

So I did.

He made me cry, he made me throw up, he had me pushing weight I never thought was possible.

I started using 20 kg/44 lb plates pretty quickly as it was easier than all the loading and unloading we had to do between sets.

There were days I thought I would throw up AFTER training legs just walking.

We haven't trained together in awhile, but he did pull me aside in the spring and told me I had gotten lazy training.

I had a great excuse, I was coming back from injury, but it was true.

It's not easy hitting the gym with intensity every workout.

There are times that you may have to have a light week to recover, but without the intensity, whether it be high reps/lower weight or low reps/high weight, you have to push it.

Most of the guys in my gym don't.

And it is a pretty hard core BBing gym.

I do laugh my ass off when I see them coming over to try weight I was just training with.

There are often rumours of my steroid use in the gym, especially when I diet down.

I look really jacked for a woman. All 125 lb/57 kg of me (comp weight)

It has everything to do with the psychological aspect of training, the mind-muscle connection.

And it also has a lot to do with genetics.

I think it would serve some of you to find the most hard core lifter in your gym and buddy up with them for awhile if you think that you haven't got that intensity training mojo going on.

 

[moonshine420]

chazk is right go with the primo and var maybe add a little eq to make things a little more interesting..

 

[camco]

I personally think the only way to keep size is to run hgh with every cycle,gets exspensive but atleast your getting what you paid for.I wont use with out it