Volume Training

[gjohnson5]

I disagree with this. Bench presses are an area which Craig Titus said that if you are not progressing , use less weight. He benched 535 before his pec tore. I am in agreement that this may be a good adjustment for some to get better chest development. Muscles respond to resistance. And how volume training destroys your CNS I will never get. if anything progressive overload can only be done for a few weeks before you are unable to overload further due to CNS issues.

Pros - Nothing.

Cons - Gay, easy to destroy your CNS, tiring, a good way to not progress in any lifts, burns too many calories, not focused around progression, etc etc.

Bout sums it up.

 

[silver_shadow]

I disagree with this. Bench presses are an area which Craig Titus said that if you are not progressing , use less weight. He benched 535 before his pec tore. I am in agreement that this may be a good adjustment for some to get better chest development. Muscles respond to resistance. And how volume training destroys your CNS I will never get. if anything progressive overload can only be done for a few weeks before you are unable to overload further due to CNS issues.

that would explain how elite olympic lifters can lift for many hours everyday 6-7 days a week?
ever try german volume training? 10x10... that is some killer stuff and can only be done once a year for max of around 6 weeks - per poliquin's recommendations that is!

of course i wouldn't agree that high volume training is useless, it does have it's place when alternated with periods of low volume training.

but what zgzaz was refering to was the kind of training where you must hit the muscle with everything possible and 2 kitchen sinks so that it feels like a mass of jelly. the kind of training which this guy describes very aptly at the end of the article
http://www.bearpowered.com/blog/PermaLink,guid,59be6249-d637-4e2a-9941-dc664684927d.aspx

 

[gjohnson5]

I'm trying to find the principal, but there is a rep range principal that states that you can only lift 90% of 1rm for a few weeks and then your numbers will begin to drop. So 6-7 is ok , but they don't do this every day for months on end

volume training builds muscle. It's the preferred method for building muscle in bodybuilders. It's not useless

that would explain how elite olympic lifters can lift for many hours everyday 6-7 days a week?
ever try german volume training? 10x10... that is some killer stuff and can only be done once a year for max of around 6 weeks - per poliquin's recommendations that is!

of course i wouldn't agree that high volume training is useless, it does have it's place when alternated with periods of low volume training.

but what zgzaz was refering to was the kind of training where you must hit the muscle with everything possible and 2 kitchen sinks so that it feels like a mass of jelly. the kind of training which this guy describes very aptly at the end of the article
http://www.bearpowered.com/blog/PermaLink,guid,59be6249-d637-4e2a-9941-dc664684927d.aspx

 

[ZGzaZ]

I'm trying to find the principal, but there is a rep range principal that states that you can only lift 90% of 1rm for a few weeks and then your numbers will begin to drop. So 6-7 is ok , but they don't do this every day for months on end

volume training builds muscle. It's the preferred method for building muscle in bodybuilders. It's not useless

ANY training builds muscle, as long as there is a means for progression over a period of time for any given rep scheme, and a calorie surplus present. It does not need to be narrowed down to "Volume training builds muscle."

 

[silver_shadow]

I'm trying to find the principal, but there is a rep range principal that states that you can only lift 90% of 1rm for a few weeks and then your numbers will begin to drop. So 6-7 is ok , but they don't do this every day for months on end

volume training builds muscle. It's the preferred method for building muscle in bodybuilders. It's not useless

and i didn't say it was - i said it has to be done sensibly and alternated with periods of lower reps especially in advanced lifters - because that is what maximizes strength which in turn (for the majority - on or off cycle) results in better hypertrophy.

and for what i mean by "sensibly" refer to my earlier post as an example of what not to do.

 

[ZGzaZ]

I disagree with this. Bench presses are an area which Craig Titus said that if you are not progressing , use less weight. He benched 535 before his pec tore. I am in agreement that this may be a good adjustment for some to get better chest development. Muscles respond to resistance. And how volume training destroys your CNS I will never get. if anything progressive overload can only be done for a few weeks before you are unable to overload further due to CNS issues.

Let's not use guys who were on massive amounts of gear, or guys with better genetics than 99.9% of the population as examples. Their advice/training techniques are useless to the general population.

 

[ricanx99]

ANY training builds muscle, as long as there is a means for progression over a period of time for any given rep scheme, and a calorie surplus present. It does not need to be narrowed down to "Volume training builds muscle."

PREACH!

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Lately I've been kinda winging it in the gym.

I'm not on anything and my diet as far as caloric surplus is concerned is decent, but I could eat more.

What seems to work best for me is a focus on the heavy basics compound lifts and trying to get the weight to go up on those over time. Everything else I do as much as I feel like, as fast as I feel like and as heavy or light as my mood dictates.

I've been making some nice improvement in the way I look using this method.

The compounds are building the overall strength and power and help drive weight gain while the assistance moves which I have been blitzing lately flesh everything out.

I seem to also be gravitating to "almost" a westside type of metality in my exercises. I have scheduled days where I suppsoed to to a certain bodypart, but each session I do a different exercise. All the exercises are steadily going up even thouhg I only do a particular exercise once every 5-9 days because each tiem I hit that bodypart I hit it hard with a similar movement.

Seems to work and help keep me fresh.

So my point is that my volume and intensity level has been pretty balls out lately and I'm making very nice visual progress. More so than when I was doign the DF 5x5 visually. That program is fantastic for overall size and strength, but when I think volume I think quite a few sets on assistance. I guess it's still considerably less than the volume a pro bodybuilder uses, but far more than a typical hardgainer program.

 

[fortunatesun]

Here's something taken from westside-barbell.com:

The Importance of Volume
By: Louie Simmons
How important is controlling volume? What about the range of intensity. These are issues seldom addressed by today’s lifters. I found out the hard way that the volume at a particular intensity range must be closely adhered to; not only the total number of lifts, but also the number of lifts per set should be calculated. This was brought to my attention by A. S. Prilepin’s research in 1974. His recommendations were as follow.
Percent # of Reps #Lifts Per Workout Optimal # per Workout
70% 3-5 12-24 18
80% 2-4 10-20 15
90% 1-2 4-10 7
If the number of lifts deviates significantly from optimal, a de crease in training effect occurs.

(This is showing up on my screen as sort of an oddball cut+paste. Hope it's not too difficult to read.)
They calculate lifts at sub-maximal levels this way. For instance, if someone was doing squats at 50% of say, 300, then 3 sets of 10 @ 150lbs = 4500lbs. moved that workout session. However you vary the specific number of sets and reps, total pounds moved must increase as an indication of progress.

It's true there will be a decrease in performance usually in 1-3 weeks when lifting in the 90% or higher range, depending on the individual. You can get around this effect by the conjugate method: using a core a exercises similar to the classic lift to prevent CNS fatigue. Of course the primary goal here isn't the same as a bodybuilder's but when you factor in secondary or assistance exercises (usually done to promote growth) the total amount of weight moved, or volume per training session can, at least in my case, provide good muscular growth as well.

Well, just another aspect of the volume question to consider.

 

[gjohnson5]

Several things this does not mention. There are 2 types of hypertrophy myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic. sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is a fluid which fills in the muscle due to higher repetition ranges and also the muscle being broken down due to exercise. myofibrillar hypertrophy occurs at lower rep ranges and results in stronger muscle contraction strength.

There is a way to apply 100% for your strength to 50% of you 1RM. This is rep speed. By lifting say 50% as fast as possible while keeping your form. You can apply 100% of your contraction strength to a lower weight.

I believe that doing 6-10 reps sets is safer for ones joints and you will be able to exercise at a higher daily frequency due to lack of CNS fatigue that fortunatesun pointed out (I believe is the preplin principal or something like that) Also by doing the repetitions as fast as possible applying 100% strength to lighter weight, you can you can get a good balance of muscle exercise and CNS stimulation due to heavy weight lifting. This should activate both forms of hypertrophy.

So to apply this to volume training say German (10 sets of 10) one can lift 60% of their max as fast as possible while keeping their form. I think one can get the best balance of size and strength.


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