Viable?

[kortisol]

I am a natural trainee who just got into the game a few months ago. I've been hopping from idea to idea and program to program. I haven't been able to stick with a program for longer than a few weeks but because of my beginner status I've been able to make solid progress so far. I started out at 196 and now I'm up to 218 at 6'0 (14-16 percent body fat) in only a matter of 4 months. The gains have been split between fat/muscle/water retention.

This is the program I created and intend on using/sticking with for the next couple of months. I hope the more experienced lifters will have constructive criticism to offer to help maximize progress.

A) Deadlift 10x5
BB Overhead Press 10x5
BB Pullover 10x5

B)Squat 1x20
BB Bent Row 10x5
BB Bench 10x5

I plan on running this everyday alternating between A and B until sunday which will be a rest day. The set/rep scheme for every movement is 10x5 aside from squat which is 1 set of 20 repetitions. Some might argue the volume is too high but I don't think 270 reps every two days is terribly difficult. Also I don't possess the greatest genetics in the world but at nearly 220 pounds I stand as the smallest male in my family, which may or may not signal a slightly above avergae recovery and muscle building capacity.

I might as well note that after awhile of performing high volume workouts this way I intend to switch to a much, much lower volume routine. I expect the transfer to be highly beneficial.

Thank you for your time.

 

[_cato_]

You want to work out 6 days a week with that? And the sets are straight sets or ramping sets? Why 1 set of 20 for squats?

Seems excessive, particularly for a beginner. It'll be especially harsh on your lower back deadlifting 10x5 3x per week.

Just to put it in perspective, you're doing around 6x more weekly volume than a typical beginner program.

 

[kortisol]

Straight sets were my idea but theres no reason why I couldn't ramp them either. I've been deadlifting minimum 3x a week so far and I must admit my lower back does cause some difficulty with me just trying to support my body in daily life. I get through it and I believe the struggle is worth it (causes me to compensate by using extra ab strength just walking around). I refuse to deadlift any less than that. I understand it may seem like a lot for a beginner but as a beginner I don't lift very heavy and I only have one lift above novice level (OHP 130+). To be honest I hate squatting so I just try to get it out of the way in one intense set. I also don't have a squat rack at home so I always have to clean the bar over my head every time I squat or have my brother help me.

 

[zedhed]

Hey bro, Welcome to EF and glad to have you with us.
To me that just seems so complicated and too dam much.
I would seriously suggest that you google Strong Lifts 5x5.
This is an excellent program for anyone at any stage of working out.
Keep in mind that you must EAT in order for this program to work to its full potential.
Also if you use this program use it exactly as it is written. I will say that again bro, use it exactly as it is written.
If you use this program you will find that it is brutally effective at giving you strength and size in a short amount of time.
Check it out and post up your thoughts bro. And good luck to you.

 

[kortisol]

Thanks for the welcoming thoughts zed.

The volume might appear too much but it is actually very simple.

I've researched stronglifts and I find the volume to be a little on the low side. If I were to go that route I'd probably use madcows over stronglifts. Stronglifts or a nice 3x3 would be ideal for a deload period though. I frequently zigzag my diet, some days I eat 2000 calories or so and some days I eat 4000 or so. I don't believe in using programs exactly as they are written. To exclude my own ideas and tendencies is just not in my nature. I can't help myself in that regard.

Good luck to you as well.

 

[lweaver]

Welcome

You seem to have good body composition, how are your main lifts doing?

Cutting the volume and putting more work into your diet will yield more gains in the long run. As a beginner you can hypothetically eat like shit and have a bullshit program and still make significant gains. As you get stronger in relation to yourmax potential, you will have to start doing more and more things correctly.

You have the idea of focusing on the important lifts and that's great. Just a few things to consider...

Is your squat form good enough, and is your focus strong enough to get the full advantages of the exercise with only one set? Squat form begins to break down after things begin to get difficult, in short you begin to train your body to perform with less than optimal form by only performing one extended set for a long period of time.

What is the purpose of 10 sets of 5 with the deadlift? Most pros who are strong as fuck will agree that low rep schemes/heavy singles are ideal for this lift for the majority of sessions. 10 sets of five at close to your 5RM will just lead to overtraining, and in the long run prevent your from geting stronger.

I'd also look into eating more if strength is the main goal. Most dudes your size will drop weight at a flat 2000 kcals a day, it just doesn't make sense to starve your body and expect it to get stronger. 2000 calories is great...for preworkout.

Good luck, I'd seriously consider some sort of progressive programming if you want the gains to keep coming but you're squatting, dealifting, overhead pressing and benching so you are on the right track.

 

[kortisol]

Body composition is sub optimal I must admit, 10 percent fat or lower would be more ideal.

My main lifts aren't that great in my mind and thats one reason why I try to compensate with a higher accumulative workload. but for all I know they might be alright in comparison for the amount of time I've spent. Deadlift is 350 or so but I perform worksets in the 200-240 range. My reason being is a couple singles of 350 is much, much less total work than 50 reps at 200. Higher workload = more growth and I'd rather grow faster and sacrifice strength gains a little bit to get the job done (similiar to the german volume training approach). Another thing is I haven't ever been in a situation where lifting more than a couple houndred pounds was required of me to perform some kind of task in ordinary life.

My squat form isn't that great but I have yet to be badly injured and my philosohpy is "if you're not injuring yourself, then form is good enough". I use an almost sissy squat technique by keeping my legs somewhat close together. It feels more natural for me that way.

Deadlift is my favorite exercise and one day I want to have a back that I can truly be proud of. Deads and rows forever!

Thanks weaver, I will make sure to eat more food =).

 

[_cato_]

I see that you are acknowledging our comments about volume, but I don't think you really grasp what we are saying. You may in fact be "able" to do the routine that you are suggesting, and you may even make gains on it for a while, but there's a difference between "able" and optimal or "a good idea." Doing an "excessive" amount of weight training doesn't result in faster gains. It actually will diminish your gains because you will be burning up a lot of calories from the extra workouts that otherwise could be going toward muscle building. Moreover, it significantly increases the chances that you will either burn out or suffer some sort of overuse injury because you aren't conditioned for what you are trying to do. In sum, it's a waste of time at best, a risky endeavor at worst.

There's a difference between an advanced trainee building up to a huge training load and a beginner trying to start off with one right off the bat. There's a reason that beginner programs all prescribe similar volume levels-it correlates to a typical trainee's recovery ability and capacity for gains. It's unlikely that your recovery ability is 6x better than a typical beginner. Typically as trainees progress in their training life, the volume must continue to increase to continue to elicit gains.

You can try it out if you want, but you're probably better off in the long term if you cut back a bit. Even if you did that routine 3-4 days a week only. Remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint.

I had more to say but I'm about to pass out in my chair and I lost my train of thought...

 

[kortisol]

_cato_
You seem to be implying less is more. I'm not entirely sure I agree with that although it would be extremely arrogant of me to think I know better than the tried and true methods of the millions before me. I've had days where I was doing over 35,000 lbs in one session split between only 3 lifts :dead, row, and bench. I think those were the days that really began pushing me forward in size. It could just be because I'm a newbie and I can make size gains off of anything but somewhere deep down I feel more is more. I've read a few german volume training articles and they all promise fast size gains. I figure I might as well incorporate some of those principles, as it would seem counter intuitive to ignore an opportunity to make fast gains, ESPECIALLY in the beginner stage where the process of adaption is heavily underway. I wouldn't mind overtraining a tad bit and then vastly reducing the volume. Supercompensation I believe is what they call it and the process should in theory allow me to adapt and conditon myself to handle a high workload.

I am very aware of what people are suggesting, and I do appreciate the sharing of knowledge.
In consideration of your 3-4 day a week suggestion, would a 5 week cycle like this work better in theory?

week 1: 3 days a week to reach 60,000 total lbs
week2: 4 days a week to reach 80,000 lbs
week 3: 5 days a week to reach 100,000 lbs
week 4:major deload : 2-3 days a week 40,000 lbs
week 5: continue deload

20,000 lbs per workout. Thats actually very reasonable.

 

[lweaver]

If size is your primary goal then hypertrophy and increasing workload may be important...for the intermediate to advanced lifter.

At this point however, bigger size gains are going to be made by eating more calories and decreasing volume. An amazing thing happens when you begin to get stronger...you get bigger. Not just beach muscle--but thick, functional, nobody-wants-to-fuck-with-you muscle.

Maybe go with what you are doing for awhile, but I promise it is going to stop working in the relatively near future. At that point, start stronglifts 5x5 exactly as recommended. Work hard until you have a 1.5 bodyweight bench, double bodyweight squat/dead, and then try and tell us that you don't only feel strong as hell but also much much bigger.

The problem with German volume training is the proponents of such things are generally advanced lifters who have a base in slagging heavy weights. Remember that you can train long, or you can train hard...but you cannot do both. In my experience training hard is more beneficial. Don't believe this? Consider that you are performing 5 rep sets with 240 lbs, or 69% of your one rep max. Your true five rep max is probably around 315 lbs. (90% of your one rep max). In essence you are doin a shit-ton of reps with a relative weight that most trainees would designate for warmups.

While you may not need to lift more than 240 lbs day to day consider the functional aspect...if your maximal strength potential is higher, all tasks in relation to this will be easier. If you deadlift 350 and Mongo deadlifts 800, who will have the easier time lifting the 240 pound load? Mongo hasn't touched 240 since he was 7 years old, but I bet you know who will have the easier time of it. Plus carrying a fridge up a few flights without any help just makes you look like a fuckin badass.

I've done high volume before...high volume is difficult. After a long enough session so is jogging. If you really want to push yourself, try some heavier loads and see how it goes.

 

[kortisol]

Haha is it possible that you just don't want to be the guy at the gym being seen lifting light ass weight?

To be honest I was initially extremely attracted to the concept of supercompensation from the beginning. Thinking it over, I realize that the concept could be best utilized if I had a much stronger base to work from. I see that now. Your persistance in pointing me in the right direction is very obvious, and I bet that you know more about game in general than I do. I'd shake your hand if you were here in front of me. I can't allow my own selfish attraction to what is only a piece of the puzzle prevent me from excelling. As strange as it sounds, I must listen to your advice in order to become better than you in the long run. I must do what is best for myself and I assume you do the same for yourself. I also assume at one point you used a program like stronglifts otherwise you wouldn't have recommended it for me. You seem to be a helpful person, and I thank you for bothering with me.

 

[lweaver]

Light weights are necessary . They are necessary for assistance lifts, dynamic work, targeting small muscle groups and prehab. It's important to lift heavy shit as well as light shit though if you want to keep progressing. But no, when it comes to working sets on my main lifts anything below 70% or my 1RM will either be a warmup set, a dynamic set or high rep. It has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with getting stronger in order to work injury free, hit harder and feel better.

 

[kortisol]

It has everything to do with ego. Thats why we lift weights. Being attractive, strong, and big is one of the best ego fuels we have at our disposal. I want to be strong all the time. I want to outlast everyone else. I want to be bigger than you. =) I want strength, power, endurance, size, everything. I'll be damned if I can't have these things.

 

[_cato_]

To reply to your earlier comments, I think that 20k lbs per workout is a huge amount per workout for a beginner. I personally barely do that much on a "volume" day. And you are proposing to do that 3+ times a week. Also, it's highly unnecessary to add days to your workout at such a rapid pace. Usually an extra day is only required after maybe 6 months of training. (obviously here I'm referring to a situation where you are doing something other than body part splits, in which case different rules would apply)

The thing you have to keep in mind is that your body can only get bigger or stronger at so fast a rate. The numbers tossed around are that best case scenario, you can gain ~26 pounds in 1 year of working out. Every year after that, the rate is cut in half. The exception to this would be if you are starting out in some kind of undernourished/undersized state. If you ate correctly and did everything right and worked out 3-4 days a week for a year, you might be able to hit that 26 pounds, as a best case scenario. Adding 2-3 more days of workouts isn't going increase your gains to 30 or 40 pounds in 1 year. It's just going to significantly increase the amount of food you'll need to even hit the same numbers, since each day you do heavy resistance training, you're significantly boosting your caloric needs. Going from 3 days a week to 6 days a week is boosting your metabolism up by something like 800 a day or 5600 a week! And that's just to maintain. By extension, you could also work out 3x PER DAY and that isn't going to help you gain any faster either.

Supercompensation is a important, but what you're failing to take into account is that for a beginner supercompensation can occur within 24-48 hours. That is in fact what makes this person a beginner. As you progress into the intermediate range supercompensation starts to take longer, perhaps one week. As you progress into the advanced range, which is what you are talking about, then supercompensation might take 1-2 months. In an advanced training block you might intentionally overtrain for 4 weeks doing very high volume and then cut it back and do a 4 week intensity phase to allow supercompensation to occur. This is called periodization. At you're level, you don't require monthly or bimonthly planning. You're at a point where you can supercompensate within a day, or at worst a few days. If you're doing something like SL5x5 and can't progress workout to workout anymore, despite having your non-gym affairs in order, then you know you are no longer a beginner and require some kind of extended periodization (probably weekly).

 

[kortisol]

I dunno if those rules always apply. My brother gained 50 lbs in one year when he turned 15, and he's still 15 and strong as fuck. I'll never be able to grow that fast, but I can grow pretty damn fast. At any rate, I'll take the 26 lbs a year. My overall goal is to get to 300 lbs and then cut. It's gonna take years and years but I'm sure I can do it.

How long does the beginner stage usually last? It seems the longer I can ride the newbie train , the better. If it takes only a day or two for supercompensation to occur, then wouldn't the shcedule I had originally posted work as it hits the same muscle groups every two days? Wouldn't it be wiser to increase frequency as much a spossible to take full advantage of this stage of lifting?

20,000 isn't really that much bro. Being affraid of high numbers is kind of self limiting.

 

[lweaver]

I don't believe it's the overtraining aspect that's going to impede you at such a high amount of volume, it's the fact that your sessions are difficult but not in the most ideal manner. You training sessions are lengthy and occur often I assume...you would probably get bigger and stronger by cutting the volume and training days per week, increasing the weights, and using the gained time to boil eggs and cook chicken.

You're not a beginner anymore when you see that your lifts begin to stall and you start to require more time and recovery to make gains (given your lifts are trained properly). A respecdtable amount of strength will also begin to come about. As far as time who knows. I've see people progress to an intermediate level within a year with good training. There are also people I've seen at the gym for years doing high volume bodybuilding magazine workouts year in and year out...still beginners and still weak.

You're on the right track with the lifts you're focusing on. In my opinion you need to push the weight a little more, it's necessary for your neurological system to be taxed with heavier weights. I also firmly believe that you will need a squat rack. Deads are great, but they won't provide all of the benefits that as grinding squats will.

Also check out coreygb's log in the weight lifting forums. He went from being untrained to putting up some respectable lifts in a short amount of time using stronglifts. Just heavy weights, a good diet and lits of progress.

 

[_cato_]

I dunno if those rules always apply. My brother gained 50 lbs in one year when he turned 15, and he's still 15 and strong as fuck.

Going through puberty and things like that are another obvious exception; obviously you'd gain muscle and size under those circumstance without even weight training at all. It's not a hard and fast "rule," but it's a pretty safe bet for anyone under normal circumstances: ie 20 something year old male unassisted.

How long does the beginner stage usually last?

3-9 months would be pretty standard if someone is doing a non-retarded routine.

It seems the longer I can ride the newbie train , the better. If it takes only a day or two for supercompensation to occur, then wouldn't the shcedule I had originally posted work as it hits the same muscle groups every two days? Wouldn't it be wiser to increase frequency as much a spossible to take full advantage of this stage of lifting?

If you can do your workout 6 days a week and add weight to every lift every time that you do the workout, ie. every 48 hours when you repeat the workout, then ya you could do it that way to take advantage. I still think its unnecessary and won't really get you anywhere faster. I actually think the volume aspect of your workout is the worst part, not so much the frequency, though I think it's unnecessary and I doubt you can sustain it to be honest. It's like weaver said, you're doing a ton of reps with relatively low % of your 1RM. And again, whenever you increase frequency, you have to eat significantly more to counterbalance it, just to get the same results, so keep that in mind.

20,000 isn't really that much bro. Being affraid of high numbers is kind of self limiting.

Whether it's a lot or not is relative to how strong you are and what intensity you're using to get the reps. It's pretty easy to do, for example, 200 reps (say 10 sets of 20) of bench press with 100 pounds on the bar in one workout, especially if your max is somewhere in the ~300 range. On the other hand, that same person trying to do 16 sets of 5 with 250 would be pretty freaking hard even though its the same total volume technically.

So it's not a question of easy/hard or being afraid of "large numbers." It's a question of what's the appropriate volume for your goals and relative to the rep range you are going to use. If you're shooting for 5 reps per set, already you are going to have a 10-20% drop in relative intensity because people can usually only do 80-90% of their 5RM for 5x5. So in effect, if your 5RM is 85% of your 1RM and you're now going to do 5x5 instead of ramping to 1 top set of 5, then you're now using only 76.5% of your 1RM, at best. If you move that up to 10 sets of 5, then you're probably losing another 10% relative intensity or maybe more I dont know. Now we are talking about using weights which are around 60-70% of your 1RM, which coincidentally is also the weights recommended for hypertrophy. Except at that point, why not just do 5 sets of 10 and get the workout done twice as fast if you're using the same weights anyways?

Anyway, I'm somewhat rambling, the main point is I dont know where you got this 20k lbs number from, but I wouldn't be focused on any specific volume number really. It's going to vary based on your rep scheme, strength level, volume tolerance, etc.

 

[miked8c]

So for dead lifts I read heavy singles, doubles and triples are the way to go.


Cato you have already learned me a few things about DL loading, however I am going to start dead lifting again and I need a program that won't hinder my other lifts.

The Coan Phillippi was a little too much for me, although I think Speed sets on the DL are a brilliant idea.

How many sets of single, double, triples should I look for? I always thought for dead lift you could do a heavy triple and call it a day, just from the sheer weight you used you would elicit gains.

 

[kortisol]

I did stronglifts today and felt like a bitch. 75 reps is just bleh. I can't stick with one little program like that. Even if I move up in strength, it's just the pussy amount of work that bothers me. I didn't even feel anything from it, especially after doing 150 reps plus over the previous weeks' sessions. If I wanted a deload, this would be a good idea.

haha i got the 20k number from myself. I feel accomplished when I ATLEAST reach 20k. before i was doing between 17k and 35k on average and I decided 20k was my satisfactory minumum. Maybe I'm better off just doing what I was doing before.

 

[_cato_]

Out of curiosity, how long does it normally take for you to complete your 20k+ workouts?

 

[kortisol]

under an hour. i move fast from set to set since the weight isn't terribly high. about an hour and a half for 35k. the time under tension is good it's almost like supersetting everything altogether. warmups weight or not you gotta be kidding if you think accumulating stress that quickly won't stimulate a lot of growth.

edit- im gonna try to get it done in half hour. that should work much better

 

[lweaver]

The reason Stronglifts works is because of the progression. Within a month or so you will find it to be very very difficult, especially if you aren't used to lifting heavy weights. Eventually you will get to weights that you cannot complete for the prescribed amount of reps and will have to eventually deload.

Stress through volume isn't going to make you bigger and stronger, especially with all of the additional calories burned and a substandard diet.

Trying to get your volume work done in half an hour with light weights...you're starting to border on cardiovascular exercise with some muscular endurance component. You may want to check out the endurance forums, or better yet look into the insanity workout if high intensity cardio is your interest. Usually people loking for advice in the weight training forums just want to get bigger and stronger, and I believe I may have misinterpreted your objectives and assumed this was the case.

 

[snyper99]

I am a natural trainee who just got into the game a few months ago. I've been hopping from idea to idea and program to program. I haven't been able to stick with a program for longer than a few weeks but because of my beginner status I've been able to make solid progress so far. I started out at 196 and now I'm up to 218 at 6'0 (14-16 percent body fat) in only a matter of 4 months. The gains have been split between fat/muscle/water retention.

This is the program I created and intend on using/sticking with for the next couple of months. I hope the more experienced lifters will have constructive criticism to offer to help maximize progress.

A) Deadlift 10x5
BB Overhead Press 10x5
BB Pullover 10x5

B)Squat 1x20
BB Bent Row 10x5
BB Bench 10x5

I plan on running this everyday alternating between A and B until sunday which will be a rest day. The set/rep scheme for every movement is 10x5 aside from squat which is 1 set of 20 repetitions. Some might argue the volume is too high but I don't think 270 reps every two days is terribly difficult. Also I don't possess the greatest genetics in the world but at nearly 220 pounds I stand as the smallest male in my family, which may or may not signal a slightly above avergae recovery and muscle building capacity.

I might as well note that after awhile of performing high volume workouts this way I intend to switch to a much, much lower volume routine. I expect the transfer to be highly beneficial.

Thank you for your time.

how old are you?

 

[kortisol]

stress through volume most certainly promotes growth. i don't understand how anybody can deny that. thats a bit infuriating to read actually because i am living proof it works. as well, the faster a workout is performed (rest reduction) also promotes growth and conditioning because the body has to adapt to handle the constant strain. you just ignorantly spat in the face of gvt theory when it CLEARLY provides spurs of growth at a rate higher than standard 5x5's or what have you. And I can always increase poundage while doing it this way so it's not like strength gains won't occur. I'll have endurance, size, and gradual strength while somebody else might have emphasis on strength and size.


lets say we each lifted 3,000 pounds and it took me 10 minutes to complete and took you fifteen minutes to complete. Assuming we both used good enough form and the same rep speed, I would benefit more from my way than your way because I chose not to rest as much. I would achieve a greater level of stamina, save overall time, and would be conditioned to repeat it again the enxt training day.

perhaps I shouldn't have said that high volume is better than 5x5 because OVERALL the best way is to constantly change schemes, but for a specefic period of time, high volume most certainly provides high levels of growth

edit 22 years old

 

[miked8c]

Maybe you should clarify your goals. Are you trying to get stronger, more muscle, or in better endurance shape?


If you want to get stronger you need to get under a bar that is loaded with MAXIMAL weight for yourself, 90% of 1RM and up. It is that simple. It is the quickest way to get STRONGER.

You can do your 20k workouts and there is no doubt in my mind that you will burn a lot of calories, lose fat and throw on some muscle on top of the oodles of the other good things that come with weight training. However, it is not the quickest way to get stronger. Strength and muscle do not directly correlate, more muscle does not equal a proportional gain in strength, and vice versa.

Oh yeah, start squatting, DEEP. At 6' tall, 215 lbs. a 350 DL is weak sauce. Bio mechanically you have a very good build to dead lift so you should really be loading the weight on these. 5+ plates.

 

[kortisol]

I want everything but size is what I want the most. I agree with you, my max lifts are a lot weaker then I'd like them to be. This will change in time. lol i dunno how you expect me to lift 500 lbs already but i can more or less promise a 500 lb dead by this time next year.

As a pro, what are your average total workloads? That seems to be the only factor I potentially have over other lifters so I'm just trying to compare dick sizes real quick lol.

 

[miked8c]

Nowhere near yours that is for sure. I'll take last night's workout for an example because I have never calculated my lbs. per workout


Front Squat

135x3
185x3
225x3
275x3
315x1
345x3
335x2
315x2
275x4


BB Row

135x5
165x3
185x7
185x5
185x4
175x7

Chins (Bodyweight)
3x10

Lat Pull Down
3x10 with 150, its a pulley system though so idk the weight.


Feel free to do the math, honestly I don't see how calculating workload is even relevant.

 

[kortisol]

Your a pro and you bent row with 185? Fucking weak for a pro man...unles you mean upright row...which is alright. I do can do 150x5 with decent form already. the 345 front squat is awesome. I didn't calculate all of it but it looks to be somewhere between 25k and 30k. AND Of course it's relevant. Thats like saying the answer of an addition problem in math doesn't matter in the equation. By the way, you're small.

 

[lweaver]

You are living proof that any form of weight training will cause a beginner to make gains.If you take a deconditioned elderly adult for instance, they will make gains from pretty much any resistance training so long that their nutritional status is intact. Same applies to yound males who are weak relative to their size.

If you want to be say even a little stronger than the average planet fitness trainee (no offense mike, you're an exception), you're going to at some point need to stop worshipping Charles Poliquin and slag some iron. And your theory is flawed, volume and time are not the primary factors that decide intensity. Consider the 3000 lbs...if you perform that amount of work with 100 lbs at 30 reps and I perform that weight by doing 3 sets of heavy doubles, then you've just done some cardio and I've reaped the benefits of heavy weight training.

It's like saying your bench press is better than Jim Wendlers, because you did more volume (185x5x10) than he did today (in example 135x3, 225x3, 315x3, 405x2, 495x2, 585x2, 675x2)

It's damn hard to get stronger without getting bigger as a side-effect. I'm just saying you should get your strength levels to a reasonable point before focusing on volume as a training factor.

You're promising a 500 lb deadlift...how do you intend to get there without training heavy? I don't care how many times you deadlift 240 pounds...you're maximal strength is not going to keep growing by doing more volume. I don't think Mike is telling you to go tear your spine pout of your asshole attempting an impossible 500 lb dead, he's just nicely telling you that you need to man up on the poundage. For example you should be squatting more than you can lift over your head, unless of course you are overhead squatting.

 

[kortisol]

Ok point taken. getting stronger is undeniably important. Gonna go buy some plates as soon I max the ones I got. I haven't accomplished anything yet I understand that. It's just that theres no reason why I can't add pounds to the bar while doing decent volume. It's completely reasonable. I can get the 500 lb deadlift while integrating volume. And I mean nobody dedicates themselves ENTIRELY to one set/rep scheme. It changes constantly. I like volume. Maybe in a couple months I'll like a 7x7, or 5x5 or a 3x10 or 10x3. I mean for christs sake all of it works.

 

[miked8c]

That is the second time you referred to me as "pro".

Dude, I'm 19. I'm not a pro.

I have never lifted in a meet, I have never referred to myself as a pro so I don't know why you keep calling me one.

Thanks for calling me small, I guess if I am small, but I lift so much more than you, than that makes you big and weak.

Try not to be a duesh, we are just trying to help you. You are the one who asked for advice, remember?

What I meant about the 500 lbs. deadlift is that at your height and weight you should be able to do that. I am 5'9 198 and I can pull 475. It was a compliment, your built well for dead lifting. But at your current strength,I am 1RMaxin on my bench what you can dead lift. I am not trying to have a pissin contest here, all I am saying is that you have good size that your not making use of because you are not going heavy.


You put two men on an island.

One man you give a barbell loaded with 135 lbs, 2 big plates. That guy will only be able to get so big working with that weight, by only using submaximal weight he will only be able to get so big, no matter how many reps and circuits he does with that. The limiting factor will be that he can only put 135 lbs. on the bar. You simply can not get bigger and stronger working with low weight.

The second guy you give him a barbell with unlimited weight and the only thing limiting him will be his genetics.

 

[kortisol]

oh yea lol. thanks for the time man.

You really think i could pull 500 lbs? Maybe if I had an alpha moment I could do it. otherwise I'm gonna have to build up to it. Who the hell just deadlifts 500 lbs after a few months of training?

Wait a second here. I can't get bigger using low weights? I'm already bigger than you. I got this way with low weights. Yea your stronger but you've been in the game for longer. I could catch up.

 

[lweaver]

Haha you're bigger than us because you're 6' tall and have a larger frame. Mike is standing at 5'9" I believe and I'm 5'7". I started seriously weight training at about 170 lbs. I outweigh you on a bulking cycle but right now I'm leaning out just a bit...so I can bulk again and throw around some heavier weights. At your size you can and should catch up at least on deads, but it's going to take some poundage to do that.

If your 1RM is 350, I wouldnt recommend trying to have that alpha moment as serious injury may occur. With stronglifts I wouldnt be surprised if you added 10 lbs to your deadlift 5RM every week for 8-10 weeks if you stuck with it...

 

[miked8c]

Great

 

[kortisol]

Just weighed in at 223 after a big ass shit. Either I'm genetically superior to you people, or high volume is the answer. Why in the fuck should I fix what isn't broken?

 

[miked8c]

Because your bigger than most of the people on this board, but your weaker than my little sister.

For 223 lbs. your not strong. Like at all. Your dead lift is 1.5x your bodyweight. That pretty bad. Your basically bragging that your fat, because for the amount of weight you haul it sure as shit ain't muscle.

 

[kortisol]

lol my fat levels fine.
i tried posting a link to explain how test levels increase with high volume but the boards wont let me. its a t-nation article that more or less defends my strategy. im plenty strong guy im just not anywhere near competition level which is expectable. ill compete with ya for workload tho. id rather get a higher t spike and grow than bust my balls trying to lift more weight. im much better off lifting weight i know i can lift easily and slowly upping the weight. i become good at everything i do, in time i'll be lifting mroe than you, i just gotta do this my way. we all cant be pros liek you ^_~

 

[lweaver]

All I can say is good luck. Hopefully you stay in the game, though chances are if you do not adapt you'll get frustrated and go through some other phase. If you ever begin to understand vital concepts such as progressive load, neurological adaptation and training specificity you will wish you had tried some other methods sooner.

At 6' and 223 lbs I'd say you are pretty much genetically average. Something is certainly broken when you are relatively weak, unable to stick to a proven routine, feel the need to ask routine advice yet are driven by an ego so strong that you will not allow yourself to adapt. It's almost as if you started this thread with the intention of trying to prove everyone else wrong...but the proof is in the iron. The weights just aren't getting moved. I don't care how much volume you get out of a bodyweight deadlift, at some point it's comparable to lifting some plastic-capped 8 lb. dumbells for a few hours.

 

[kortisol]

i think you read too far into it.

 

[miked8c]

i think you read too far into it.

Not a chance, weaver is right on the money. Most cocky assholes like to post up BS numbers and talk smack.

You post up weak numbers, and talk smack.

I didn't know trolls existed on weightlifting forums.

I'm now convinced that is what you are so this thread is a waste.

 

[kortisol]

yep this thread had potential to be informative but it turned into a waste. that kinda thing can happen when you insist you know whats better for me when i was clearly doing good for myself before. I even tried taking the stronglifts advice and right away i knew it wasn't as effective as what i was previously doing. what a fucking headache. you came in hear calling me weak so i called you small. im just gonna stick with my shit and you stick with your shit and we can all be happy doing our own shit.

 

[StevenM23]

What was the point of asking for help then buddy ??

 

[kortisol]

If people always knew all the points from the beginning then there wouldn't be a point in doing anything. Something along the lines of listening to myself and changing my perspective to use what other people say to my advantage would be a good lesson learned after all of this mess. Theres always a shit ton of lessons left to be learned.

 

[StevenM23]

Ok man , still don't make sense though , as long as ur pumping weights and gaining weight ur doing something right , but eventually once u plateau which new weightlifters do after the first year then u will listen to what these good dudes are saying to u bro ,

 

[kortisol]

yea man totally. talk about getting sidetracked. lol it's almost like venturing off the trail in search of something only to find garbage. when people see something they think is garbage, they'd be wise to leave it be and keep moving. basically if I think what im doing isn't adequate, then i'll move on to something else. Thats really not something I need other people to tell me, although in some hypocritical way it is nice to know people atleast pretend to give a shit and "add to the garbage pile" so to speak.

 

[snyper99]

Not a chance, weaver is right on the money. Most cocky assholes like to post up BS numbers and talk smack.

You post up weak numbers, and talk smack.

I didn't know trolls existed on weightlifting forums.

I'm now convinced that is what you are so this thread is a waste.

I figured that out 3 pages back