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VERY HOT debate going on around here...

DO you agree with "Mandatory" Organ donations?

  • Hell No!, ain't nobody using my cawk (or anything else) after I'm done with it

    Votes: 7 25.9%

  • Yeah, slice me up, I'm not using them any more

    Votes: 13 48.1%

  • LOL, good luck to whoever gets my liver, Oh boy are they in for a surprise!

    Votes: 6 22.2%

  • I'd willingly donate my cawk to pick3, he would appreciate it

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • Total voters
    27
pintoca

pintoca

New member
It turns out, there is a law being studied that will make Organs donation, the DEFAULT choice for people in Germany.

in other words, you are born, you grow up, never say anything or sign anything about organs donations... the minute you die, your body is fair game.

You'd have to explicitly sign documents where your body is not to be touched if you die.

Apparently, some fine tuning involve no touching of external organs (like limbs or eyes) so that you look natural with an open casket service.

WTF???

I mean, I'm all up for organ donation, but that is a VERY personal decision. I don't want that choice taken away from me.

What say you?
 
pintoca said:
WTF???

I mean, I'm all up for organ donation, but that is a VERY personal decision. I don't want that choice taken away from me.

What say you?
Click to expand...

I agree with you. That new policy sucks, but is consistent with the socialist tendencies in that country. It is as if the bodies of citizens are the property of the state.
 
I'm all for it as long as laws that control what I do with my body while it is mine don't get worse. Basically what I'm saying is when I'm done with this fucking body there won't be anything left!
 
It's a great idea. It will increase the available pool of organs for transplant and save more lives. Where is the down side? Freedom of choice? Dead people don't make choices.
 
Your body should become part of your estate when you die. If your will doesn't dictate how your body should be disposed of then the decision should rest entirely with the executors of your estate. In most circumstances, this would place it with your spouse or next of kin.

If the hospitals care to make an offer then the executor should be at liberty to hold an auction. I see no reason for the government to have any claim on your corpse.

I can just see the next few steps: mandatory organ donation will lead in turn to having a responsibilty to care for your body as a duty to society and the coming recipient of your parts. This could then lead to it's being a criminal offence to allow or permit any harm to come to your body or to endanger it in any reckless fashion. The next step is to make endangering your own body be a capital offence. It's only a short step from there to culling and having organ farms.
 
Why am I the only one who is laughing at the guy who gets my liver?
 
I don't know, it's a bit too sci-fi to my taste... the all-powerful state machine looking after my organs... I have already decided to donate, though, but I want to be FREE to make that decision.
 
i'm donating all my organs (when i die. not yet), but i don't think it should be mandatory. just like I don't think anyone should dictate what i do with my body at all.
 
stilleto said:
i'm donating all my organs (when i die. not yet), but i don't think it should be mandatory. just like I don't think anyone should dictate what i do with my body at all.
Click to expand...

ONANIST ALERT!!!
 
Do you guys have a reading disability? He didn't say it was mandatory, it's the default. So if you don't want to donate your organs, you have to sign something.
 
pintoca said:
It turns out, there is a law being studied that will make Organs donation, the DEFAULT choice for people in Germany.

in other words, you are born, you grow up, never say anything or sign anything about organs donations... the minute you die, your body is fair game.

You'd have to explicitly sign documents where your body is not to be touched if you die.

Apparently, some fine tuning involve no touching of external organs (like limbs or eyes) so that you look natural with an open casket service.

WTF???

I mean, I'm all up for organ donation, but that is a VERY personal decision. I don't want that choice taken away from me.

What say you?
Click to expand...
It all depends on how easy they make it to say no. If they make sure that EVERYONE knows they don't HAVE to do it, and make signing up for denials easy as hell. Then I don't see the problem.

However, I don't think that's the intent here.
 
western society is shielded from death. well. cloistered is closer to it.

i think its healthy and logical. much of the negativity is transferred from people shying away from the thought of their own death or anything associated with it.
 
I'm not comfortable with donation by default.
We need a lot more education and publicity about benefits and urgent need for organ donation.
Having the debate should lead to increase in people signing their donor cards. I've signed mine.
 
pintoca said:
It turns out, there is a law being studied that will make Organs donation, the DEFAULT choice for people in Germany.

in other words, you are born, you grow up, never say anything or sign anything about organs donations... the minute you die, your body is fair game.

You'd have to explicitly sign documents where your body is not to be touched if you die.

Apparently, some fine tuning involve no touching of external organs (like limbs or eyes) so that you look natural with an open casket service.

WTF???

I mean, I'm all up for organ donation, but that is a VERY personal decision. I don't want that choice taken away from me.

What say you?
Click to expand...

I agree with you....and wouldn't some say it would be against religion or something?
Now I am an organ donor myself but I did not opt to have my body donated to science. Silly I know, but the thought of my dead naked body laying on a cold metal slab with students cutting into me didn't appeal to me. And after all my organs that can be used are taken I want to be cremated. :whatever:
 
WODIN said:
It's a great idea. It will increase the available pool of organs for transplant and save more lives. Where is the down side? Freedom of choice? Dead people don't make choices.
Click to expand...

WERD

After you are dead what on earth are you going to do with your organs?

I dont care about my body after I am done with it.

I am, however, greatly concerned with how I affect those around me (and generations thereafter) while I am still using it.

Feel me?

How cool is it that science has allowed us to positively affect countless total strangers after we are gone, regardless of how we lived our lives. Sort of socially redeeming if you ask me.
 
Think of the children. Organs are very valuable. The surgeon and his consultant aren't going to fit them for free so why should they get them for free. I stand by my previous post: the body should be part of the deceased's estate to be disposed of accordingly.

Your body could be the best insurance policy you have. Of course, there's the risk that your family decides to sacrifice you to pay for the new yacht.
 
i don't agree with the Government making any decisions for me.. It's getting to the point you can't even buy Vit C without a script..
 
My only concern (at least in the US) is that when you're on the table dying and your organs are a match for some government official or their offspring or whomever else has some pull they won't have as much enthusiasm in saving your life because they're too busy planning the harvest/delivery of your organs.

Other than that - I'm happy to give them up if they could give someone else a better or longer life - but it should be my choice.

........ I just want to be done using them all together in one place first.
 
mandatory? you can have my organs but that doesnt make it ok for you to have someone who still wants theirs...
 
slat1 said:
I am an organ donor.
If I have done nothing else when I die it may allow me to give life!
Click to expand...
that is such a good line im gonna use that with the rest of youre reportoire to pick up strippers thanks uncle slat lol
 
velvett said:
My only concern (at least in the US) is that when you're on the table dying and your organs are a match for some government official or their offspring or whomever else has some pull they won't have as much enthusiasm in saving your life because they're too busy planning the harvest/delivery of your organs.

Other than that - I'm happy to give them up if they could give someone else a better or longer life - but it should be my choice.

........ I just want to be done using them all together in one place first.
Click to expand...
I feel the same exact way. I wanted to sign up right now for organ donations after my death, but my husband said that they might not bother to save ME in order to get my healthy organs for other people.
 
foreigngirl said:
I feel the same exact way. I wanted to sign up right now for organ donations after my death, but my husband said that they might not bother to save ME in order to get my healthy organs for other people.
Click to expand...
Imagine if your surgeon is on the lookout for organs for a relative.

:eek2:
 
Y_lifter said:
Very Personal Decision ?

You're dead..
You won't be making any decisions dude..

Give em up already
Click to expand...


Some peeps in here seem awfully paranoid. The way I look at it, if I am on the brink of dying and the medical team sees that I am a match (which I thought was a complicated process - but I dont know) someone who is waiting for an organ, then it will happen and I am off to wherever it is that peeps go when they dont need their bodies anymore and so shall it be.

I think the notion of someone having to PAY for organs is sick. Just my .02 But I am also all to aware that peeps with funds get "the very best" when it comes to everything in this world. I still say, if I am on my deathbed and somebody wants my organs so badly that they will not work as hard to save me - SO BE IT. Why should I lay awake at night worrying about something that I have so little control over?

When your time comes there is NOTHING one can do to cheat death.

WE ALL DIE... but how many of us truly live? (Yea, I stole Mel Gibson's line from oh what was the name of that movie?... the one about William Wallace).

I am far too focused on living to worry about dying.

I AM an organ donor, btw. Have been since that option was part of getting your driver's license.
 
How easy is it for a doctor to decide that this otherwise healthy young person which requires extreme measures to save him will more readily save five lives? I don't like it. I don't like laws you have to opt out of. Forced volunteerism.
 
It's a great idea. It will increase the available pool of organs for transplant and save more lives. Where is the down side? Freedom of choice? Dead people don't make choices.
Click to expand...

very true. This would save alot of peoples lives. You know how many people die waiting for a donor for a transplant. What do you need your organs for when you die anyway. Its like when someone dies and has millions of $$$ but dosent want to give it to his/her kids or anyone just wants to burn it.
I do agree people should have the right of choice though, that being said everyone should donate their organs when they die.
 
seaking420 said:
very true. This would save alot of peoples lives. You know how many people die waiting for a donor for a transplant. What do you need your organs for when you die anyway. Its like when someone dies and has millions of $$$ but dosent want to give it to his/her kids or anyone just wants to burn it.
I do agree people should have the right of choice though, that being said everyone should donate their organs when they die.
Click to expand...

Guy on operating table will die unless this procedure is done that would make his organs less viable for transplant. He only has a 5% chance of surviving the procedure. Do you choose:

A: Let him die, so his organs will save four people?
B: Try to save him?
 
If they are given the choice to opt out of organ donation, then I think it seems like a good idea. Perhaps many don't give their organs b/c they die young and didn't sign the organ donor agreement because they didn't expect to die.
 
I am not a religious person it is all good once I am dead you can have at it but I do know that organ donation goes against many religions belief systems so it sucks to be them.
 
superqt4u2nv said:
I am not a religious person it is all good once I am dead you can have at it but I do know that organ donation goes against many religions belief systems so it sucks to be them.
Click to expand...

I was just about to post agian because no one addressed my question to this...I was thinking the same thing.
 
Imagine if your organs aren't used to save anyone, if they are just used as research or study material, imagine if they are sold on the black market.

If you want to be an organ donor that's fine, but if you never made a conscious decision to be one you should be treated as more than just the sum of your body parts after your death.


b0und (not an organ donor)
 
b0und said:
Imagine if your organs aren't used to save anyone, if they are just used as research or study material, imagine if they are sold on the black market.

If you want to be an organ donor that's fine, but if you never made a conscious decision to be one you should be treated as more than just the sum of your body parts after your death.

b0und (not an organ donor)
Click to expand...

Feel you, but once you are dead does it REALLY matter?
 
pintoca said:
It turns out, there is a law being studied that will make Organs donation, the DEFAULT choice for people in Germany.

in other words, you are born, you grow up, never say anything or sign anything about organs donations... the minute you die, your body is fair game.

You'd have to explicitly sign documents where your body is not to be touched if you die.

Apparently, some fine tuning involve no touching of external organs (like limbs or eyes) so that you look natural with an open casket service.

WTF???

I mean, I'm all up for organ donation, but that is a VERY personal decision. I don't want that choice taken away from me.

What say you?
Click to expand...

I say that using word like default are alot better then mandatory, and some people are talking like their freedom of choice is being taken away.

you aren't losing any freedom of choice.

like you pointed at you can still sign and say no I don't want donate my organs ( If you CHOSE to)

I think it's good actually, because I'm sure everyone knows at least ONE person who has had their lived altered for the better or saved because of an organ transplant.

I also assume there are alot of people in our society who actually would donate their organs but don't know they can or are to lazy to go forth and sign documents saying yeah sure give my organs away. (think about all those missed organs and peoples lives who could have been saved?)

I don't see any cons, they aren't making it mandatory as some people say, according to this post you still have all freedoms of choice and it will probably be largely beneficial and lots of lives will be saved, I'm glad they aren't altering the outside appearance so you can still have that open casket, does it really matter if under that suit there is an empty chest cavity etc? not in my opinion.

I'm definately pro for organ donations, and it should definately be your choice, and it is.
 
How do these proposals cover the young or mentally unsound? Are they automatically state property on death?

What if someone dies while not carrying ID or has ID stolen during a murder? Does the state assume property rights over the body until evidence is brought forth to the contrary?

At what age or state are you considered to be of sound mind to make the decision to opt out? Can the state challenge your decision to opt out under any circumstances? Can a parent or guaridan opt out on ward's behalf? Can the child challenge the parent's decision?
 
blut wump said:
How do these proposals cover the young or mentally unsound? Are they automatically state property on death?

What if someone dies while not carrying ID or has ID stolen during a murder? Does the state assume property rights over the body until evidence is brought forth to the contrary?

At what age or state are you considered to be of sound mind to make the decision to opt out? Can the state challenge your decision to opt out under any circumstances? Can a parent or guaridan opt out on ward's behalf? Can the child challenge the parent's decision?
Click to expand...


wumpster, you're dead bro. who the fuck cares? I can't even understand a religious argument against this, you soul ascends in their minds, nothing to do with the body.

Cemetaries are a waste of space. let's get serious about recycling.
 
What if you are not dead but dying? At what point does extreme measures become moot? No one has answered this question yet.
 
mountain muscle said:
wumpster, you're dead bro. who the fuck cares? I can't even understand a religious argument against this, you soul ascends in their minds, nothing to do with the body.

Cemetaries are a waste of space. let's get serious about recycling.
Click to expand...
You're right, dead is dead, but I was thinking only of the nearest and dearest who would be horrified to be told that their young one was to be taken away and chopped up for spare parts since they had failed to opt out.

Now if the nearest and dearest are the ones who make the choice, unless it's specified clearly in some kind of will, such as an opt-in system, then they can decide whether to permit the re-use of the corpse. As I've written a couple of times, the body should be part of your estate.

RG raises some excellent points about whether drastic measures might be declined on a dying patient who was possibly save-able, even if only for a few more days, if the risk to re-usability of organs were considered too great. There's a trailer for a coming series on TV at the moment that has the line, "So, you're an organ donor. Do you think that's wise?".

Personally, I discussed this with my wife, the survivor decides what happens with the other's body.
 
BIKINIMOM said:
Feel you, but once you are dead does it REALLY matter?
Click to expand...

I hope you don't donate your vag once you're gone. It would be more expensive to reconstruct it than trying to reborn and get a new one

:qt:
 
redguru said:
Guy on operating table will die unless this procedure is done that would make his organs less viable for transplant. He only has a 5% chance of surviving the procedure. Do you choose:

A: Let him die, so his organs will save four people?
B: Try to save him?
Click to expand...
That's one of the issues that's been done to death by medical ethics committees, and it's also why the doctors who handle transplants specialize ONLY in that procedure and why there are organ transplant lists that are neutral based strictly on need.

Can rich or otherwise privileged individuals obtain organs, bypassing the list? Yes (Anybody see Tourista? or the most recent season of Nip/Tuck?).

But seriously, y'all been reading too many Robin Cook novels :FRlol:

Let's be logical, I just don't see parting out human beings as being profitable enough to chance the slightest risk of inpropriety for major institutions. The potential lawsuits are staggering. Not to mention that what is essentially being bantered about is murder. Whether a person would die in a day or two is essentially beside the fact. We're ALL dying, whether we die tomorrow, next year, or 30 years from now is academic.
 
musclemom said:
That's one of the issues that's been done to death by medical ethics committees, and it's also why the doctors who handle transplants specialize ONLY in that procedure and why there are organ transplant lists that are neutral based strictly on need.

Can rich or otherwise privileged individuals obtain organs, bypassing the list? Yes (Anybody see Tourista? or the most recent season of Nip/Tuck?).

But seriously, y'all been reading too many Robin Cook novels :FRlol:

Let's be logical, I just don't see parting out human beings as being profitable enough to chance the slightest risk of inpropriety for major institutions. The potential lawsuits are staggering. Not to mention that what is essentially being bantered about is murder. Whether a person would die in a day or two is essentially beside the fact. We're ALL dying, whether we die tomorrow, next year, or 30 years from now is academic.
Click to expand...

what bits of yours are up for donation?
 
pintoca said:
what bits of yours are up for donation?
Click to expand...
I'm an organ donor, if they can find anything useful, go for it :rolleyes: I've also made it abundantly clear to my husband and son how I feel about artificially sustaining life and my husband (actually we will be sitting down and putting things formally/legally on paper, I have handwritten directives but not a "proper" legally worded document).

I truly believe in reincarnation so I don't have quite the same perspective on either my own mortality or my mortal remains. This life, this moment in time/space, is just one of many, many, many, many (x10, x100, x1000, x10,000, who the fuck knows), lifetimes. We all eventually will return to the Divine.

Do I want my life to end prematurely, HELL NO. But if we're talking the difference of some piddly days spent in a fucking hospital waiting to die :whatever: If I'm in a situation where conventional medicine is overseeing my care, I'm majorly fucked already, I'm the 0.01% that conventional therapies don't work on, that the drugs create catastrophic side effects in, and I'm allergic to a helluva lot of shit that are VERY common ingredients.

Basically, I'm one of those people who, were they to get a tatoo, I really would have "D.N.R." put on my chest.
 
blut wump said:
The whole DNR issue is a minefield, too, unless someone has previously made their wishes clear.
Click to expand...
I can't understand how people cannot have had this discussion with their family. Holy crap, I remember talking about it with my mother when I was in my teens and I always made sure my husbands knew how I felt about things.
 
I like the tattoo suggestion. It might be getting "Always Resuscitate" indelibly printed somewhere about my person. Ideally somewhere so vital that if the tattoo were lost then I'd be prepared to change my mind about wanting to live.
 
blut wump said:
I like the tattoo suggestion. It might be getting "Always Resuscitate" indelibly printed somewhere about my person. Ideally somewhere so vital that if the tattoo were lost then I'd be prepared to change my mind about wanting to live.
Click to expand...

Agreed, if I'm lying there in a coma, you better not try pulling the plug on me.
 
redguru said:
Agreed, if I'm lying there in a coma, you better not try pulling the plug on me.
Click to expand...

that is a whole different thing... how about if your family was going through hardship (debt, selling all that you have, etc) to keep you alive? and it was worthless cause you were clinically dead already?

I mean, you can spend the whole day trying to figure it out, but unless it happens to you, everyone has an opinion
 
pintoca said:
that is a whole different thing... how about if your family was going through hardship (debt, selling all that you have, etc) to keep you alive? and it was worthless cause you were clinically dead already?

I mean, you can spend the whole day trying to figure it out, but unless it happens to you, everyone has an opinion
Click to expand...

If I have brain activity, then keep me alive. If I am clinically dead, then yes, make me into soylent green for all I care. I have insurance to pay for catastrophic medical care, and lost wages.
 
Agreed, if there is any possibility that my brain is still functioning inside my head then I want all done to preserve that brain activity.

I also don't want to consider the possibility that one of my nearest and dearest spends the rest of their life with an inkling of doubt as to whether they killed me by pulling the plug or signing a release form for a medic to do it.

I've told all of my near family that, as far as I'm concerned, if I have power over their life or death, then they've opted-out on DNR unless they inform me otherwise.
 
blut wump said:
Agreed, if there is any possibility that my brain is still functioning inside my head then I want all done to preserve that brain activity.

I also don't want to consider the possibility that one of my nearest and dearest spends the rest of their life with an inkling of doubt as to whether they killed me by pulling the plug or signing a release form for a medic to do it.

I've told all of my near family that, as far as I'm concerned, if I have power over their life or death, then they've opted-out on DNR unless they inform me otherwise.
Click to expand...
Been there, done that. Pulling a plug is painful, but watching someone you care for decay slowly and destroying yourself in the process is worse (that's how my father died, slow and ugly).

My mother died as a result of a ruptured cerebral aneurysm. She was in the hospital, she'd had the surgery to have the aneurysm coiled about three weeks prior. They had her on a shitpot of anticoagulants because she had a minor stroke as a result of the surgery to coil the aneurysm.

The aneurysm totally opened up while she was in the stepdown unit getting ready to transfer to rehab. SHE was gone, but her body and brainstem weren't dead. She was still breathing (her feet were moving, jesus that really bugged me). I could have kept her alive. She would never talk or walk or think, she would need tubes for food and water and diapers and catheters. My mother would have hated that, and she would have been FURIOUS with me for doing that to her. But like I said, this was a discussion we'd had several times. We knew each other's feelings on the matter.

I can't imagine how hard it is for people who know absolutely nothing about medicine, though. If I had walked into that hospital room cold, absolutely ZERO medical knowledge (I have more than the average layperson because I'm a neurology transcriptionist), and seen my mom snoring away, her toes wiggling ... I would have thought she'll be fine, too. But I could also look at the cerebrospinal fluid and see it was the color of ketchup and her brain MRIs and see one hemisphere entirely obliterated and knew she was already gone, her body just hadn't stopped because the doctors had kept it going.
 
Interesting to read people's thoughts on this.

Don't keep me alive with machines. That is not being alive.

Take every ounce of my body that can help someone who is living.
 
pintoca said:
whatver I get. I sure hope I don't get lestat's sphincters... that one is all distended and shit.
Click to expand...
you spend way too much time thinking about my sphinters
 
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