Understanding AAS Dosing

[Realgains]

Thanks for your reply. Nothing but good solid info here. Yes, I meant to say natural limit, not genetic limit. (I felt something wrong with that, hence the " " around genetic!)

#1. to make a cycle less androgenic yet plenty anabolic. A test/EQ stack would be a good example of this. As mentioned above, 250 of EQ and 250 of test will produce almost the same gains as 500 of test but will be less androgenic and cause fewer sides.
Can you point to some data for this or is this based on observation?

I don't have the scientific data but I will make a few comments.

#1 Boldenone is highly anabolic but less androgenic than test or tren. It is slightly more androgenic than nandrolone . #2.It does aromatize to estrogen but doesn't have a high affinity to do so. It aromatizes at about half the rate of test.
So you can see how it would be useful with a strong androgen in order to keep the androgen level moderate and bloat down yet keep the ananbolic component high.

Nandrolone is also highly anabolic and aromatizes at about a quarter the rate of test. It has a very high affinity for the AR. It is somewhat progestogenic however and progesterone can also cause bloat and gyno....still nandrolone causes much less bloat, or gyno for that matter, than does an equal amount of test. It is also the only steroid that is somewhat safe for the hairline as it converts to the very weak DHN and not the very strong androgen DHT form test.

You could also run straight Boldonone and get pretty decent results but a mix of test and boldenone proves to be better.

Nandrolone has been run by itself too. It is moderately affective at a 2mg per pound of body weight dose. It can give nice slow but steady gains without a lot of bloat. Proviron or a little test is needed in order to keep ones sex drive alive as nandrolone is very low in androgen.

Sorry for the rambling.

RG

 

[jdog9304]

About the EQ/Test cycle.
What do you think would be the best Test to use in conjunction with 400mg of EQ?
What i mean is which test would produce least sides at 250/week and promote soid lean gains?

 

[Realgains]

About the EQ/Test cycle.
What do you think would be the best Test to use in conjunction with 400mg of EQ?
What i mean is which test would produce least sides at 250/week and promote soid lean gains?

Test is test bro...they all give the same degree of sides. Some guys think prop gives less bloat but I don't think so....it's probably due to the lesser weekly dose of test that many guys do when using prop..... it has to do with volume and frequency of injections.
Actaully 500 of prop has more actual testosterone in it than 500 of cyp(very small) as cyp has a tiny bit more weight as ester.

You may notice sides sooner with faster esters of test but in the end they are all the same IMHO.
With 250 of test you will likely notice no sides bro.

Just remember that Boldenone has a long half life so start clomid between 17 and 21 days after your last injection.

 

[Dr.X]

I don't have a whole lot of cycle experience but what Realgains has said seems valid in 2 respects:
1. You need more juice to make gains the closer you are to your natural limit - even moreso if you are above your limit.
2. You're probably not going to maintain as much of those gains between cycles.

I got up to ~190-195 lbs naturally (5'9") and my cycle results (2 so far) have been nothing like the ones I read about claiming permanent 25lb gains, etc.
Not only do I gain less overall (12-20 lbs), but I only maintain probably 1/2-1/3 of my gains (5-8 lbs) - using clomid and HCG.

 

[juggernaut7]

yeah

start off at what gives u crazy gains,ull have to up it soon enuff,ride it while u can baby!good post/advice...always good to keep reminders like this up and goin!peace

 

[OKIE]

Re: Re: Understanding AAS Dosing

I disagree with this statement. If you are 5'10" and have 5% bodyfat, you would have to have freaky genetics to weigh 190 pounds. I'm about 5'10" 175 have done 3 cycles and I'm fucking ripped. It all depends on your genetics bros.

I would have to agree with RealGains on this one. I am 5'9" and weigh around 190lbs. I have done a couple of mild cycles a few years back, not including the one I just started, but I feel that I could have attained my current weight w/o gear. I am by no means ripped, I am around 10%-12% bf, which I consider fairly lean for most common purposes. I have also had 2 shoulder surgeries which diallowed me from lifting for almost 6 months at a time. During those times my weight dropped to about 165lbs and I was able to put the weight back on naturally. I would agree that a hard gainer or an ectomorph may not be able to reach this weight naturally, but I don't think you would need freaky genetics to obtain it either.

Good Post Real!!!!

 

[Dingo12]

I am a juicing female. I was wondering if anyone knows, just for interest the equivalent doses of test cyp. that would provide a test level equal to that of an adolescent male?

Just curious so I can put my dosing into context.

 

[ryker77]

Re: Re: Understanding AAS Dosing

I disagree with this statement. If you are 5'10" and have 5% bodyfat, you would have to have freaky genetics to weigh 190 pounds. I'm about 5'10" 175 have done 3 cycles and I'm fucking ripped. It all depends on your genetics bros.

You've done three cycles of what?? I sure hope you've not wasted money on gear to be at 175lbs. Please tells us what you took so as we can stay away from that kind of cycle/training.
BTW I'm not saying that you probably don't look and feel good. Cause on my first cycle I used test prop and tren at real low doses and toward the middle of the cycle I was a shredded 175. At least my upper body looked good.

 

[Realgains]

I don't have a whole lot of cycle experience but what Realgains has said seems valid in 2 respects:
1. You need more juice to make gains the closer you are to your natural limit - even moreso if you are above your limit.
2. You're probably not going to maintain as much of those gains between cycles.

I got up to ~190-195 lbs naturally (5'9") and my cycle results (2 so far) have been nothing like the ones I read about claiming permanent 25lb gains, etc.
Not only do I gain less overall (12-20 lbs), but I only maintain probably 1/2-1/3 of my gains (5-8 lbs) - using clomid and HCG.

Here is a perfect example of what I was talking about.....here is a bro that made it 190 fairly lean at 5"9"...thanks for the comments bro.

It is possible to keep up to 100% of ones actual muscle and strength gains, minus water and intracellular glycogen weight, up to ones natural limit. For example...a man can gan 20 pounds of pretty solid mass on his first cycle, if he is not at his natural limit. He can keep probably around 15 pounds of that gain providing proper clomid therapy was used, diet remains A-1 and training was" toned done" to natuarl training after the cycle. The loss is not actually muscle IMO. Once one breaks natural limit then I think you do loose muscle mass after a cycle.

Once one breaks ones natural limit is is indeed harder to keep the gains. The body always wants to go back down to natural limit while on natural test levels.

I do think that if one keeps training with a lower volume and perhaps less frequency(natural training) then one can keep some of the gains above natural limit without using steroids. I think that if a person that is say 20 pounds above natural limit stops using gear altogether then he should be able to keep about 10 of that gain. It doesn't sound logical but it is a fact ....you see steroids not only cause individual muscle cells to grow they also cause NEW cell growth .

 

[Realgains]

I am a juicing female. I was wondering if anyone knows, just for interest the equivalent doses of test cyp. that would provide a test level equal to that of an adolescent male?

Just curious so I can put my dosing into context.

I don't think you would want to mimic the test level of an adolescent male.........it would be too much IMO.

Test is a good choice for the ladies actually as it is not a foreign hormone to the female body and is already the most abundant female sex hormone.

A couple words of advice.....search for my post "Injectables guide for females by Realgains and wife"

Also stick with prop as it has a short half life(probably 2 days) and this gives females a chance to bail out of a cycle should bad sides start to come on.

My wife is on 50 mg of QV prop per week. She injects every other day with an insulin syringe and 27 guage 1.5 inch pin(they can be found)...no pain at all. 50 mg per week for 8-12 weeks is plenty unless you are a top competitor looking to turn pro.
I wouldn't run 50 for more than 12 weeks as time "on" is also palys a factor in the developement of androgenic sides.