tren and gyno just don't mix!!!

[da big thinker]

By stop using it, soon as you see first signs of gyno. It's fast acting, in and out very quickly.

exactly...busdriver1,did you continue the use of tren even after feeling gyno symptoms?just curious...

 

[da big thinker]

panerai...i like your style!but the debate is NOT over...let me think about the info you have presented and i'll def get back to you soon...in addition,have you used FINA or tren yourself...?and what were your experiences...?

 

[busdriver1]

Yes, I stopped it when I saw the signs. However, the next day I woke up with a bitch tit on my left pec. The shit hit overnight. So, if you stop it at the first sign, you are not guaranteed that it will go away and not progress. Now, when I stopped the tren, I took winny for 5 weeks and the gyno almost went away completely. I am 99% sure that tren does cause prolactin levels to rise, I have done numerous cycles and never had a problem. I do one cycle of tren and my levels are thru the roof. Screw all the studies done on animals or whatever, I am living proof that tren causes GYNO. and no it wasnt from the test because I was taking 1 arimidex a day during the cycle and only takin 250mg of the test. I have takin a gram a week of test before and never had a problem with gyno.

 

[da big thinker]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do we get in real life? With few exceptions, most users experience Fina dick, or close to it, and definately nothing even close to pure DHT effect.

ONCE I ADDED TREN TO MY CYCLE,I IMMEDIATELLY FELT A 24/7 SALUTE AS FAR AS MY PENIS PUMP IS CONCERNED...NUMEROUS TRAINEES OF MINE EXPERIENCE THE 24/7 SALUTE...NONE HAVE COMPLAINED OF FINA DICK AS YOU SO CALL IT...( I HAVE JUST OVER 50 SUBJECTS)

Why? Same as with Deca - binding to PR. That's the only possible explanation.--WHY,BECAUSE YOU SAY SO...?

PLEASE STATE THAT THIS IS YOUR OPINION AND NOT FACT...U R CONCLUDING BASED ON YOUR KNOWLEDGE!!!

Now, you started that thread, saying that Tren when viewed from 3-D can't fit in PR, so how come it does?I STILL STAND MY GROUND AND WILL PRESENT IT TO YOU A LIL' CLEARER!

Get your facts together.--BOY ARE YOU COCKY...BASH A BRO FOR TRYING TO GET SOME ANSWERS AND CLARIFY THE EFFECTS OF TREN...

Trenbolone and Nandrolone, both are progestogens, both derivated from 19-nortestosteron.
Tren - 4,9,11-Estratrien-17beta-ol-3-one
Nandrolone - 4-Estren-17beta-ol-3-one

Don't you see striking similarities? So, comparing these two compouds make a lot of sense.

ONE IS FAST ACTING AND THE OTHER IS LONG ACTING...NO THEY ARE NOT SIMILAR MY FRIEND...IF THEY WERE,WE WOULDN'T NEED TO DISTINGUISH THE TWO...I'LL BE BACK W/ SOME INFO...--FYI

 

[da big thinker]

Yes, I stopped it when I saw the signs. However, the next day I woke up with a bitch tit on my left pec. The shit hit overnight. So, if you stop it at the first sign, you are not guaranteed that it will go away and not progress. Now, when I stopped the tren, I took winny for 5 weeks and the gyno almost went away completely. I am 99% sure that tren does cause prolactin levels to rise, I have done numerous cycles and never had a problem. I do one cycle of tren and my levels are thru the roof. Screw all the studies done on animals or whatever, I am living proof that tren causes GYNO. and no it wasnt from the test because I was taking 1 arimidex a day during the cycle and only takin 250mg of the test. I have takin a gram a week of test before and never had a problem with gyno.

first,let me say that i empathize w/ you;but that has to be the quickest formation of gyno i have ever heard of...out of curiosity,we're you possessing a high bf% during your cycle?and how was your diet?the prolactin as you stated could be an issue...i will further research the topic...

 

[Zyglamail]

Now, when I stopped the tren, I took winny for 5 weeks and the gyno almost went away completely. I am 99% sure that tren does cause prolactin levels to rise, I have done numerous cycles and never had a problem. I do one cycle of tren and my levels are thru the roof. Screw all the studies done on animals or whatever, I am living proof that tren causes GYNO.

Keep in mind that progesterone and estrogen are not the only 2 factors that cause gyno. IGF-1 has also been shown to promote gyno in humans and tren, while human studies are limited, has shown to increase IGF-1 levels like no other AAS in large variety of animal studies. Nolvadex, while commonly known to block estrogen also lowers HGH and IGF-1 levels. Needless to say we have testimony from those who have gotten gyno from tren alone or tren with other non-aromatizing AAS so it does happen. While I have not had a need to try it myself, nolva may actually help in reducing gyno sides from tren by lowering IGF-1 levels, hoewever many of trens benefits also likely come from these leveated IGF-1 levels as well so taking nolva with tren (like other AAS) may have an impact on its overall effectiveness.

 

[Zyglamail]

Here are just a couple abstracts to back up my above claims. The first is a study regarding the gyno effects of IGF-1.

Carpal tunnel syndrome and gynaecomastia during growth hormone treatment of elderly men with low circulating IGF-I concentrations.

Cohn L, Feller AG, Draper MW, Rudman IW, Rudman D.

Department of Medicine, Medical College of Wisconsin, Milwaukee.

OBJECTIVE--We studied the relationship between plasma level of insulin-like growth hormone I (IGF-I), changes in lean body mass and in adipose mass, and adverse side-effects during human growth hormone (hGH) treatment of elderly men who had low IGF-I levels. DESIGN--The first six months was a period of baseline observation. The subjects were then randomized into two groups so that during months 7-18, men in group I received hGH, and men in group II served as untreated controls. SUBJECTS--Eighty-three overtly healthy elderly men, who were selected because their plasma IGF-I level was less than 0.35 units/ml. The men were randomly assigned in a ratio of three to one into group I (n = 62) or into group II (n = 21). MEASUREMENTS--Plasma IGF-I level was measured monthly. Lean body mass and adipose mass were measured every six months. RESULTS--Fifteen men left the study during the baseline period because of personal reasons or intercurrent medical events. In those who received drug (group I), there were a number of adverse reactions which could have been related to the hGH therapy: carpal tunnel syndrome 10, gynaecomastia 4, and hyperglycaemia 3. In total there were 27 dropouts from group I and two dropouts from group II after the six-month point, for a variety of medical and non-medical reasons, the majority probably not related to hGH therapy. During the hGH treatment of group I, plasma IGF-I increased from the range 0.10-0.35 units/ml into the range 0.5-2.2 units/ml. Among the 18 men who completed 12 months of hGH treatment without experiencing one of the three above-noted presumed hGH side-effects, mean and peak plasma IGF-I during treatment were significantly lower than among the 13 men who experienced carpal tunnel syndrome or gynaecomastia (one subject had both) while on hGH. With one exception, neither carpal tunnel syndrome nor gynaecomastia occurred in any individual with a mean IGF-I level less than 1.0 units/ml during hGH treatment. Twelve months of hGH treatment (group I) caused an increase in lean body mass to 106% of the initial baseline (month one of the protocol), and a reduction in adipose mass to 84% of the baseline. Meanwhile, the lean body mass of the untreated men in group II declined to 97% of the initial baseline. The body composition responses after 12 months of treatment in group I were larger in the men whose mean intra-treatment IGF-I level was 0.5-1.0 units/ml, than in the men whose mean intra-treatment IGF-I level was 1.0-1.5 units/ml. CONCLUSIONS--These observations show that when elderly men with low circulating IGF-I concentrations are treated continuously with hGH, elevation of plasma IGF-I above 1.0 units/ml is associated with a substantial frequency of carpal tunnel syndrome or gynaecomastia. It may be that the effects of the hormone in expanding lean body mass and reducing adipose mass can be achieved, and the side-effects avoided, by maintaining the mean IGF-I level in the range 0.5-1.0 units/ml.

Here is an animal study showing how tren increases IGF-1

Effect of a combined trenbolone acetate and estradiol implant on steady-state IGF-I mRNA concentrations in the liver of wethers and the longissimus muscle of steers.

Johnson BJ, White ME, Hathaway MR, Christians CJ, Dayton WR.

Animal Growth and Development Laboratory, Department of Animal Science, University of Minnesota, St. Paul 55108, USA.

Treatment of lambs (initial BW 28 kg) for 24 d with a combined implant containing 40 mg of trenbolone acetate (TBA) and 8 mg of estradiol (E2) increased ADG 25% (P < .05, n = 8) and feed efficiency 23% (P < .05, n = 2) compared with unimplanted lambs. By d 3 following implantation, sera from wethers implanted with TBA + E2 showed 32% (307 vs 233 ng/mL) increases (P < .001, n = 8) in IGF-I concentration compared with sera from unimplanted wethers. This increase was maintained throughout the entire 24-d study. Steady-state hepatic IGF-I mRNA levels were increased approximately 150% in implanted lambs compared with unimplanted lambs (P < .05, n = 4). These data suggest that liver may be the source of at least part of the increased circulating IGF-I in TBA + E2-implanted sheep. In steers implanted with Revalor-S (120 mg of TBA and 24 mg of E2) for 40 d, the steady-state concentration of IGF-I mRNA in the longissimus muscle was 68% greater than in the longissimus muscle of unimplanted steers (P = .013, n = 4). Consequently, increased local production of IGF-I by muscle tissue may play a role in increasing circulating IGF-I concentrations as well as an autocrine or paracrine role in stimulating muscle growth in steers implanted with Revalor-S.

Granted the above animal study was not just pure tren implantation, but it clearly demonstrates that tren does play a role in increasing IGF-1.

 

[busdriver1]

first,let me say that i empathize w/ you;but that has to be the quickest formation of gyno i have ever heard of...out of curiosity,we're you possessing a high bf% during your cycle?and how was your diet?the prolactin as you stated could be an issue...i will further research the topic...

Actually my bodyfat was low because i was cutting, it was around 4 or 5%. Diet was good. I dont know, maybe it was forming and I just couldnt tell. I mean, I never had any pain or anything. Now the day I stopped tren, I had looked in the mirror and noticed a litte puffiness. I said " holy shit" I think I am getting gyno. By the next morning it had gotten pretty bad. My winny just happened to arrive the very next day. I took it and the gyno cleared up considerably. I am in the process of looking for surgeon now. I was on for 7 MONTHS.had blood work done on everthing you can think of. My liver is perfectly normal, test levels normal, thyroid normal,estrogen levels normal, cortisol normal, well you get the picture. The only thing high and out of wac is Prolactin levels. I just got results back from a second prolactin test and they have went down 2 points in a week. I started taking vitex so maybe it is working.

 

[Hbone]

Studies are great and can lead us to experiment with new stratagies however, a lot of studies fail to transfer to real world result and experiences.

 

[da big thinker]

thx for the info Zyg...hey Zyg,in all your experiences w/ tren,have you experienced decrease in libido or bitch tits...?by using ONLY tren...w/o combining it w/ another substance...