Training for Power and Speed

[coolcolj]

check this page out

http://www.renegadetraining.com/code_chris_korfist.html

it would seem that 50% of your 1RM is the best load to use when training for maximal power. And that 80% is the highest load one should use when training for strength, without slowing down too much.

And off course going to failure will slow down the speed drasticly

This will modify my training somewhat

 

[Legion Kreinak]

What do you mean by "maximal power" and "strength"? Sounds the same to me. In my aspect of wanting to get no bulk and train for martial arts and have muscular endurance (which everyone says isn't real but I tend to disagree with, if you have a higher amount of slow-twitch fibers) would I then do 50% of my RM?

Edit: BTW, interesting read. Thanks alot, Cool! ^^ I have a feeling this may be what I was looking for.

 

[scruples]

check this page out

http://www.renegadetraining.com/code_chris_korfist.html

it would seem that 50% of your 1RM is the best load to use when training for maximal power. And that 80% is the highest load one should use when training for strength, without slowing down too much.

And off course going to failure will slow down the speed drasticly

Seems fairly close to WSB principles, no?

 

[Legion Kreinak]

Excuse me for my ignorance, but, what is WSB?

 

[coolcolj]

maximal power as in training to run faster or to jump higher. or for sports in general. Training like a bodybuilder will make you slow.

In my own training now, I do a couple of strength sets, and then I drop the weight to 50% 1RM and hyper acclerate the reps and do about 6-8 reps. But now I'm gonna reduce my strength sets down to 75-80% of 1RM.

WSB = West Side Barbell club

 

[Legion Kreinak]

Alright, so for martial arts if I wanna keep my speedy kicks and 4 ft vertical leap, I guess I should train at 50% RM, eh? ^^ Sounds good, heavy weights and low reps never worked for me, it seems. I must have more slow-twitch.

 

[coolcolj]

No you use both 50% and 80% and higher. You can't have power without strength so you need to develop both

every muscle in your body will be different in their fast/slow percentage though.

 

[Legion Kreinak]

Eh, changing the weights for different exercises is too much effort for me, I'll just meet halfway, 65% will be my number. Power and strength mean the same thing, don't they?

 

[coolcolj]

No

Power= Strengthxspeed

Strength is a display of force without any regard to speed.
SO you can see you can't have great power without big strnegth.

anyway when in doubt, just lift the damn bar!

 

[Legion Kreinak]

Oh, I don't care how fast I can lift the damn weights =P

All I care about is increasing my muscle to help throw a better, more effecient punch. What muscles would do that, BTW? I would imagine your delts and lats would have something to do with it (with that hooking motion let's say, forcing your bodyweight into it, but I'm not sure)

Needless to say, I will just lift the damn bar, no reason to use heavy weights.

 

[coolcolj]

Lift the weight fast to be fast and powerful, ie train your CNS to be explosive

do some bench presses

 

[Legion Kreinak]

I only do inclined now, i dont wanna have tits =P

 

[coolcolj]

Your abs and legs help you punch too - rotational strength

 

[teen1216]

if I wanna keep my speedy kicks and 4 ft vertical leap

Man, if you really got a 48 inch leap that is freaky as hell. Anyways, I know you have a different opinion than most people on this, but flat bench will not give ya bitch tits, especially since you aren't concentrating on mass. You may have the appearance of them simply because you aren't lean enough for it to go away, or you may have natural gyno. (in my opinion)

 

[Legion Kreinak]

I doubt I have Gyno, never took any supplements or anything. I still personally think flat bench is bad. The only way to really find out is if I do inclined for awhile with no flat, and see if my chest starts to fill in. I think that may be the problem, though I don't know.

 

[teen1216]

Coolcolj, you said you would drop your strength sets to 75-80%, so you would do say 2 at 78 percent and then move on to the explosive sets? How many sets do you do for your explosive sets? Also, do you think this approach would best work on power exercises like the BP and squat instead of say olympic hybrids and the like? If so, would the olympic hybrids be all speed sets? Sorry for all the questions just thought it was a very interesting article.

 

[coolcolj]

Yes or more or less. I do 2 sets at most no more than 6 reps for the explosive sets. When I do inclines explosively, my body actually leaves the bench when I brake at the end of the push


Hmm no normal compund moves can compare with Olympic lifts in terms of bar speed. Not unless you wnat to injure yourself. You still need to slow down near the end, whereas in Ol, you explode all the way through. Ok Jump squats or other plkyo type moves are the exception.

 

[Lord_Suston]

training for speed is not really done in the gym. the fast movement of weight allows one not to become to use to slow movements. if you want to train for speed it is done either by speed drill such as sprinting or shadow boxing ect....

My 2Cents from a long time training

 

[coolcolj]

I disagree

I couldn't believe the difference in my jumping (3-4 inches higher), speed, shooting accuracy improvement, and agility when I played Bball for the first time in a month (twice in the last 4 months) compared to the last time I was at the court!

WOW what a difference. That's the odd thing, I hadn't done any practising and yet my shooting range and accuracy improved a lot! Not only that, but my overall explosiveness and ability to string 3-4 continous jumps was a notch up. Its due to the olympic lifts I feel.

The brain and CNS remebers.

 

[mekannik]

Lord_Sustanon, I would have to disagree. My buddy whose training for the Olympics (Hammer thrower) who taught my some of the Olympic lift techniques is an excellent example.

He combines WSB and Olympic lift methodologies - and speed work. After doing snatch or cleans then box squats, he would continue on to jumping up in the air holding a 20 kg plate and scissor kicking. Explosive strenght (jumping) and quickness/agility (scissor kicking). A set would last 20 or more jumps - f'in insane.

Also - he would impliment lighter (50-60% of max) snatches off blocks for speed. Following the idea of CAT by Hetfield.

 

[scruples]

I doubt I have Gyno, never took any supplements or anything. I still personally think flat bench is bad. The only way to really find out is if I do inclined for awhile with no flat, and see if my chest starts to fill in. I think that may be the problem, though I don't know.

your posts seem consistently misinformed...

 

[Lord_Suston]

to mekkanik and coolcolJ, what both of you are talking about is explosive strength. I am not going to disagree that olympic lifts help on explosive strength of jump or off the starting blocks in the beginning of a sprint.

I am talking about sheer speed as in fighting, or sprinting, weighlifting can be used to strengthen the muscles that are needed in recruitment. but if what you guys are saying is true no boxer should train by punching they should do olympic lifts. See the problem there, I am talking about sport related skills. To be fast in a certain sport, you need to train to be fast in that sport.

Example: when all I did was olympic lifts and powerlift I tryed to box an old friend of mine. I was an explosive fighter, I mean at 5'7.5 weighing 190 I could clean and jerk 205 for sets of 6 no problem, but when it came down to are match he beat the ever living shit out of me because I could punch fast enough, I lost the proficiency by not training for it.

 

[coolcolj]

Yes you are correct, but remeber that there is carry over to different movements if the speed of movement and energy systems used are the same. The CNS is a global body thing and is not specific to each different movement as was once thought.

Hell I even explode off of the toilet seat now

like I said even my shooting - a finese thing, improved a lot without any practise. Someone else said the same thing on Dr Squat's forum when he did started training on Olympic Lifts.
Not only that my first step speed, dribbling and stealing ability improved dramaticly.

Off course if you practise your chosen moevemnt as well, you get a even better overall improvement. But never discount proper weight training - the guys I play against can't hang with me now, and they play every week!

 

[mekannik]

Lord_Suston - point taken and acknowledged.