Touchy shoulders and arranging the best training split

[OTCbooty]

Forgive me for asking such a general question....

My shoulders overtrain really easily. Because my favorite exercises for chest/triceps (bench press and dips) both also hit my delts pretty hard, I've been working chest/shoulders/tris on the same day. I'm pretty freakin tired of the high volume that day, not to mention I really want to be able to prioritize my lagging shoulders. But every time I try to train them separately later in the week, I end up overtrained (or under-recovered) and unable to do ANYTHING involving shoulders for a while.

Any sage advice? I'm trying some different splits right now, but hate how disorganized I feel when I go to the gym always trying a new combination, and I'm wondering if I should drop some of the delt-stressing work instead---like get rid of dips, as much as I love them, in favor of pec and tri isolation work---so I'm able to fully separate delt training from chest??? I just love my dips though

 

[Belial]

Well, any press will nail your delts; but dips and other decline type movements will use much less than, say, flat bench.

If you're doing chest and tris on the same day, it doesn't HAVE to be high volume (and I agree, unless your recovery is good, training shoulders on a separate day can be a bit much for some, even though I've never had a problem)

I'd say you can create a chest/shoulders day without being in the gym for hours.

-3 sets flat DB bench
-2 sets dips
-2 sets cable crossovers/DB flyes
-2 sets lateral raises
-2 sets DB shrugs

On your back day, do some sort of rowing motion with a pronated (overhand) grip, with your elbow out, and you'll end up doing plenty for your "rear delts."

Sets there are optional; that's an 11 rep routine, 7 sets that hit chest, 7 sets that hit delts. If you want more delt work, and feel that your chest is doing well, substitute incline DB press for the flat; that'll prioritize the delts more. If you want more triceps... and have the juice, do a military press instead of the lateral raises.

I'd say it's a waste to try to separate delt training from chest training; you'd have to do away with some of the best compound lifts; not worth it.

Now, if you want to do a separate shoulders day, the best I can suggest is make your chest day nothing but decline/dip motions and fly motions. But I don't recommend this.

If you want a more personalized routine, feel free to shoot me a PM/e-mail.

 

[OTCbooty]

That's fairly similar to what I tried this week...

3 DB flyes
2 flat DB bench
2 decline DB
3 upright rows
2 or 3 mil press

....which was 3 days following triceps where I did dips, which always felt mostly worked my tris because I never did them separate from my chest work....this time I realized how much they do hit my chest because my pecs/front delts were still sore when I actually wanted to train them later in the week....

So I think I was on the right track, just a little stubborn about where I put my dips, and still lacking a whole lot of experience to know better. Thanks B, you know (I think) that I have faith in your word...

 

[Belial]

Definitely on the right track; I like the thinking behind those lifts you got there.

Dips are a strange bird; a lot of the emphasis depends on how you're doing them. I'm guessing parallel bar? How wide is your grip? You keeping upright? Leaning forwards?

Hey, glad to help. Like I said, the e-mail offer's always open.

 

[OTCbooty]

Until very recently, I did dips with a couple of BBs laid across the crash bars in the power rack---I'm sure I pissed a few people off hogging a rack this way ---but I really need to keep my grip narrow or I have a lot of pain in my shoulders while doing them. And I lean slightly forward. New gym has parallel bars that are actually narrow enough that I can use them...

Now that I realize how much I really am working my pecs with dips, I will just keep them with chest training...if I watch my form on the presses (keep a wider grip) then I shouldn't have any problem with training triceps separately. Will give this all a try for a few weeks, no guarantees that I won't hit you up for more help though.

Thanks

 

[sysopt]

I think you should move shoulders to a different day. My routine looks something like this:

chest, tris, calves
back, bis
legs
arm, shoulders