Too many Americans are going to college

[javaguru]

I agree but "guidance counseling" in middle and high school making low level college courses more difficult is the answer and not arbitrary IQ scores. There also has to be a change in the general attitude that going to college and getting a four year degree is the natural progression for people who want to be financially successful. That means pushing trade schools and two year programs from early education. I graduated in 1990 and they were pushing vocational education heavily in my high school but it was too late to change students' minds.

 

[mrplunkey]

I agree but "guidance counseling" in middle and high school making low level college courses more difficult is the answer and not arbitrary IQ scores. There also has to be a change in the general attitude that going to college and getting a four year degree is the natural progression for people who want to be financially successful. That means pushing trade schools and two year programs from early education. I graduated in 1990 and they were pushing vocational education heavily in my high school but it was too late to change students' minds.

Totally agree!

IQ is only one of many measures. Intelligence has so many facets that trying to measure it with a single number is seriously flawed.

We also need to do some image repair to trade schools. We need more of a European mindset where trades are seen as very honerable and important. We're slipped into an "everyone needs a college degree" mindset here which is a mistake.

 

[ErikZ]

Calculus is great. I got exposed to it in High School and it is my favorite subject in Mathematics.

 

[ErikZ]

The article makes some great points. Grade inflation and the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality means that now truly *anyone* can pass high school.

Now that attitude is sinking-into colleges and universities -- there are fewer and fewer "weeder" courses. At Vandy, Engineering Calculus was the weeder for all engineers. Organic Chemistry was the weeder for all pre-meds. Now contrast that to today's nebulous "Business Management" major. That guy is going to get a non-specific degree, graduate, and get turned-down for 50 corporate jobs. Then, if he's lucky, he'll land a job as a pharmacutical sales rep... otherwise he's waiting tables at O'Charleys. Why not teach him a real-world skill like electrical work? Or welding? Our certified welders for ORNL used to make $35/hour -- which wasn't bad at all consdering where they lived.

Some business schools are VERY challenging and Calculus and other skills (like creating Financial Models) are extremely well taught and challenging.

Just my 2 cents

 

[mrplunkey]

Some business schools are VERY challenging and Calculus and other skills (like creating Financial Models) are extremely well taught and challenging.

Just my 2 cents

I was using "General Business" as an example of a non-specific major that doesn't necessarily have a natural "weeding" course. The same could be said for "Computer Science", "Political Science", "Sociology" or "Philosophy", etc. etc..

 

[Bikini Mod]

In Hungary whether or not a student will go to college is decided very early. By the time a student is 14 their grades will show whether they are college material. If they are not then they do not go to high school (precursor to university) but to a vocational school of their choice. At 18 they have a solid trade and become viable and contributing member of society.

Sadly, many employers in the US make a college degree mandatory even it if isnt one of use to that particular field. I believe that less than 25% of college graduates actually go on to careers where they utilize their degrees. So what is the point of a degree? Just to prolong adolescense at this point, I suppose.

Everyone should have equal opportunity and access to a college education if it is something that will help them become productive members of society. However, there is no shame in skilled labor/solid trade. I have had the pleasure to meet MANY men that were multi-millionaires who never even attended college.

I dont believe that IQ scores alone are accurate indicators though of one's projected success. From what I have been told (by several members of the organization) most members of MENSA are laborers. It is my understanding that emotional IQ is a far better indicator.

Just something to think about.

 

[Raptorex]

I am grateful that I have an approximate,
5+3+6=14 years x $25,000 = $350,000 education behind me

In addition, for my last 6 years, I gave up approx. $480,000 in salary to make TA pay.

With that said, I have a 1000x better life than if I didn't go to school.

 

[Bikini Mod]

I am grateful that I have an approximate,
5+3+6=14 years x $25,000 = $350,000 education behind me

In addition, for my last 6 years, I gave up approx. $480,000 in salary to make TA pay.

With that said, I have a 1000x better life than if I didn't go to school.

I didnt finish college, but got married to my ex. BIG FAT FREAKING MISTAKE. Had I had that degree my choices would have been far less limited while re-entering the workforce, though I can't say if I would have done things differently (being honest). What I am saying is that my choices would have been far greater.

MORE OPTIONS = HIGHER PROBABILITY THAT ONE WILL MAKE BETTER CHOICES.

At this juncture I dont NEED a degree. It blows me away when my husband asks me to read over proposals/agreements and he asks me to help modify documents. Firstly because he trusts me to, secondly because I can. I wonder sometimes how different my life would have been had I finished my undergrad.

Hindsight is 20/20 though, aint it? Not a fan of looking back, though. Got too much before me to waste too much time doing that.

 

[Raptorex]

I agree with you!

Aside from what the article discusses, the indirect benefits to me were to expand my horizons. I grew up in the city and it helped me understand other cultures and differences among people, since my area is so homogeneous. I also met a pretty special woman .

I K-messaged you something private!
Thanks.

I didnt finish college, but got married to my ex. BIG FAT FREAKING MISTAKE. Had I had that degree my choices would have been far less limited while re-entering the workforce, though I can't say if I would have done things differently (being honest). What I am saying is that my choices would have been far greater.

MORE OPTIONS = HIGHER PROBABILITY THAT ONE WILL MAKE BETTER CHOICES.

At this juncture I dont NEED a degree. It blows me away when my husband asks me to read over proposals/agreements and he asks me to help modify documents. Firstly because he trusts me to, secondly because I can. I wonder sometimes how different my life would have been had I finished my undergrad.

Hindsight is 20/20 though, aint it? Not a fan of looking back. Got too much before me to waste too much time doing that.

 

[Bikini Mod]

I agree with you!

Aside from what the article discusses, the indirect benefits to me were to expand my horizons. I grew up in the city and it helped me understand other cultures and differences among people, since my area is so homogeneous. I also met a pretty special woman .

I K-messaged you something private!
Thanks.

K-messaged a reply.

Your kindness is very much appreciated.