To MR NELSON MONTANA

[doublebicep]

I am an avid reader of Nelson's posts and responses to posts. I have never read him saying not to use anti-estrogens. In fact, just the opposite. He talks about using Calcium D Glucarate and Proviron often.

Yes, anti-e's might hinder gains but I would rather not have "Billy Breasts".

(If you have not yet read, "Why Billy has Breasts", it is a good and worth while read.)

Also, I cannot count the number of times vets and mods have said to have anti-e's on hand during every cycle - before you start your cycle.

 

[bbkingpin]

I always take an anti-e but the anti-a's kill your sex drive. Regardless of what someone says about anti-e's, you should think for yourself enough to know to have it on hand just in case. Now you know. Good luck.

 

[Krazykat]

Calcium D Glucarate = anti-e?

 

[Themachine01]

I have always wondered this, if you have nolva on hand, and you begin to to feel a little itchyness in the nipples, or a little soreness, it might not be anything, but then again it could be. But, lets say it is the onset of gyno, the nolva is not going to make the tiny bit of gyno that has already set in go away, yes it will prevent you from making it worse. Therefore, I cant understand why someone would run dbol without a light anti-e. I am not prone to gyno, but I have also never taken dbol.

Nelson, question. I have yet to read your book, but am wondering something. You seem to know a good amount about bodybuilding back in the years of arnold. Im wondering, since arnold didnt use any anti-es, I have never seen pics of him holding a lot of water or being really bloated, and it is said, that he was a big fan of dbol. You really rarely seen a bodybuilder back in the day all bloated up with water. Maybe im wrong.

 

[Spidey]

I have always wondered this, if you have nolva on hand, and you begin to to feel a little itchyness in the nipples, or a little soreness, it might not be anything, but then again it could be. But, lets say it is the onset of gyno, the nolva is not going to make the tiny bit of gyno that has already set in go away, yes it will prevent you from making it worse. Therefore, I cant understand why someone would run dbol without a light anti-e. I am not prone to gyno, but I have also never taken dbol.

Nolva made my small case of gyno dissappear. No knots, sensitivity or anything; completely back to normal.

Also, the 17-methyl estradiol formed from aromatization of dbol is a more potent estrogen than estradiol itself. I can easily see how someone gyno prone could have a problem even on low dosages. An aromatase inhibitor like liquidex to keep that nasty estrogen from being formed in the first place would be a better choice IMO.

 

[Themachine01]

Its amazing how little I know about such a common AS of dbol, mainly because I have never used it, nor do I really have a desire to, not too sure why, I just dont like orals. What would be the difference, in regards to dbol, and running 20mg/nolva per day or .5 liquidex per day. Will one hinder gains more than the other, im imagining not.

 

[Nelson Montana]

If gyno symptoms have just begun proviron/nolva can get rid of it. Personally, I can not understand how someone can begin to feel an itching, sweeling lump in their it and just ignore it and keep doing the same dosage of the same drug/s. (?)

Yes, Calcium D-Glucarate is a potent anti-e.
The main reason the old timers didn't get gyno was the dosages and the methods for using them. That's the point that I've tried to get across many, many times. Primo winny and deca were the biggies and d-bol at 10 mgs a day. Arnold was one of the first guys to push the envelope of 50 mgs of d-bol a day. He was lucky. But once 50mgs became the norm, that's when the "gyno-surge" of the late 70's started.

Krazy Kat is a casualty of the new method of steroid use -- not looking before you leap. Sure, you've done some research, but you know how they say a little bit of knowlege is a dangerous thing? That's the case here, you got half the story and proceeded. Steroid use must be approached with caution. Still, I feel bad for you bro. But I have a feeling you'll be alright.

 

[Spidey]

Its amazing how little I know about such a common AS of dbol, mainly because I have never used it, nor do I really have a desire to, not too sure why, I just dont like orals. What would be the difference, in regards to dbol, and running 20mg/nolva per day or .5 liquidex per day. Will one hinder gains more than the other, im imagining not.

Yeah, I probably won't ever use it again either. It just isn't doing as much for me as some of the alternatives.

In regards to your question about anti-e's. I personally don't think there would be much difference in running 20 mg nolva ed vs. 0.5 mg ed Ldex during the cycle. The problem would be after you stopped. Since nolva doesn't actually lower levels of free floating estrogen, you could get that "rebound" effect when you stop. Think about it. YOu block all your estrogen receptors with nolva but there is still a high concentration of estrogen present just sort of laying in wait. When you stop taking the nolva, all of a sudden, those receptors are not blocked and there is STILL a high concentration of estrogen which can now bind and cause problems. With the Ldex, the estrogen isn't formed in the first place so the sae problem doesn't exist. Also, 0.5 mg ed only blocks about 60% aromatase activity; it doesn't obliterate it entirely. Given the extremely high test levels during a test cycle, there will still be plenty of estrogen around to grow and be healthy; just maybe not enough to cause gyno.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Yeah, I probably won't ever use it again either. It just isn't doing as much for me as some of the alternatives.

In regards to your question about anti-e's. I personally don't think there would be much difference in running 20 mg nolva ed vs. 0.5 mg ed Ldex during the cycle. The problem would be after you stopped. Since nolva doesn't actually lower levels of free floating estrogen, you could get that "rebound" effect when you stop. Think about it. YOu block all your estrogen receptors with nolva but there is still a high concentration of estrogen present just sort of laying in wait. When you stop taking the nolva, all of a sudden, those receptors are not blocked and there is STILL a high concentration of estrogen which can now bind and cause problems. With the Ldex, the estrogen isn't formed in the first place so the sae problem doesn't exist. Also, 0.5 mg ed only blocks about 60% aromatase activity; it doesn't obliterate it entirely. Given the extremely high test levels during a test cycle, there will still be plenty of estrogen around to grow and be healthy; just maybe not enough to cause gyno.

Exactly -- which is another reason why I prefer proviron.

 

[jubei]

Personally I think its 100 percent your fault. Take responsibility for yourself bro. NEVER start a cycle without nolvadex on hand, especially if your worried about gyno. Nelson is not your mom, your dad, or your personal trainer. Plain and simple: YOU FUCKED UP. Don't blame anyone but yourself.