This low dose craze is getting out of hand.

[BigAndy69]

I will admit that I once was an advocate of low doses...that was a different time on the boards when 500-750mg of test, 400mg of deca, 30mg of dbol a day was the typical first cycle.

2thick was the only guy advocating very low doses, like 200mg of deca a week, or 200mg of primo a week.

IMO, first cycles are not as important as people make them out to be.

There are a few things that many people need to consider:

1-Many first timers have a history of ProHormone use (and yes they are weak, but they are hormones)

2-Most of the gear outhere is either fake or more likely counterfeit so 600mg of Mexican test could be 360mg. The dbol coming out of Thailand is nowhere near the potency of the old Ciba dianabol. So the good old days of guys getting great results on 2 dbols a day is over!

3-People have different goals, some want to look good but they are also professionals and can't get too big. Others do it for modeling, Martial Arts, Sports, Powerlifting...and others are hardcore BBers. Hardcore BBing requires..(are you ready for this!)..Hardcore doses.

4-People differ greatly. Some are genetically gifted. Just because Arnold built his physique with less than a gram of juice, it doesn't mean you will attain the same results with low doses.

5-Most juicers have no business using gear. If you are 6'2 160lbs, you need some steak and a training guide; not a shot of sustanon. I gained 20lbs on 250mg a week! Yeah, he went from 140lbs to 160lbs! I'd like to see a guy with 5-6 years of consistent training and eating at 5'10 200lbs 12%, gain 20lbs on 250mg a week. It's not going to happen(unless he is a genetic freak)

6-"I did well on 250mg of sust (or 200mg of deca) a week!" Sust is designed to be shot every 3-4 weeks. Deca is a long acting ester. They both build up in your system so by week 4-5 you have a LOT more than 200-250mg of drugs in your system.

Steroids for Health...I love that title...99% of the time, unregulated, self medicated hormone use is NOT healthy. If you are bodybuilding for health and use steroids, you are kidding yourself. Sure, you may be healthier than partiers and heavy drinkers, but have no delusions, steroid use doesn't make you healthy, lifting does. I'm not saying you can't be healthy with moderate hormone use, but chances are you would be healthier without AS.

So what's a newbie to do?

The majority of AS users on this board are looking to gain some quality size and do not want to be freaks. You need to ease into your first cycle. Assuming the user has built a solid foundation, this is what I would recommend:

Dbol: 25mg ED, first 4 weeks
Test enant/cyp: 400-500mg a week
Test prop: 100mg-150mg EOD at the end of the cycle

or

Deca: 300mg a week
dbol OR winny at 25mg and 50mg respectively

or

EQ: 400mg-500mg a week
dbol OR winny at 25mg and 50mg respectively

A Few things to consider:

1-Don't stack Deca and Test until you run each seperately. If you experience problems (Impotence, Gyno, bloating...), you won't be able to pinpoint which one is responsible.

2-Tren, Anadrol and Halo are out. These are considered harsher drugs and you may not be able to handle them physcologically and physically.

3-Chances are you will NOT find legit Primo, especially as a newbie.

4-Test and dbol are your best bet since they are widely available.

Don't be fooled, your first cycle you will gain VERY well on less than a gram a week, but chances are you won't gain all that well on the same amount on your following cycles.

 

[WannaImpress]

Solid post BA............man how I wish I had this info. when I had started the AS scene a few years back!

Props bro.!

 

[chewyxrage]

Great info- Bump

 

[majutsu]

Sounds totally reasonable thx

 

[TheMuscleMonster]

all this talk about never finding legit primo just makes me want it more. does primo reall work that well? i have tons of confidence in my source, maybe he won't be able to get it, but i know he wouldn't sell me fakes.

 

[Little Rage]

i agree with a lot of what you have said, especially the first two sentences of #5.

Only thing i don't agree with is eq for a first cycle. Think you should have included it with the tren, drol, and halo at the bottom of your post. I feel the increased levels of anxiety, which occurs in most people, can become a great problem to some people, especially to those with preexisting anxiety disorder. Others also have troubles controlling the increase of hunger. This may screw up their diet, which can in turn ruin an entire cycle.

 

[lartinos]

Props to bigandy

 

[BigAndy69]

i agree with a lot of what you have said, especially the first two sentences of #5.

Only thing i don't agree with is eq for a first cycle. Think you should have included it with the tren, drol, and halo at the bottom of your post. I feel the increased levels of anxiety, which occurs in most people, can become a great problem to some people, especially to those with preexisting anxiety disorder. Others also have troubles controlling the increase of hunger. This may screw up their diet, which can in turn ruin an entire cycle.

Well, some people do well with Eq. It really depends on the user, if he is prone to anxiety and has appetite control problems, then Eq is not a good choice.

I can't tolerate test, but I do well on deca. It's all about finding what works for you. The sides you described for Eq are not major. I've seen people turn into completely different people on Tren, halo and anadrol. Plus they are the drugs with the most serious sides, no question about it.

 

[Mike P.T.]

Good read but I still don't believe in the doseages you recommend.

First cycle I would recommend:

1) 250-400mg/week test

or

2) 300-400mg/week eq

or

3) 300-400mg/week deca

*no longer than 10 weeks

For cycle 2 and 3 you might want to add proviron at 25-50mg ed if libido problems occur but at this length it's not likely.

True some with poor genetics and poor receptors might not gain that well from these cycles, BUT.... At least they will know. Start off high and where to you go from there. The mentality here is HIGHER which is a poor way to think unless you are a competitive athlete and have paid your dues. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Triggerman2003]

Great post BigAndy, I agree with you 100%. Different stuff work different on different people, like for me sus did not do as well as cyp for me. I got a little more acne and a lot more gains using cypianate than I did with sustanon. I like deca well except for the temporary impotence you can sometimes get with it. But IMO, using some test would counteract the impotence, but deca stays in your system for quite some time, longer than test does.