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The Work OUT

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ilovetolift
  • Start date Start date
I

Ilovetolift

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Hey folks I've devised a new program. Workout, rest, Workout, rest, and so forth, how does it look? Thanks for the comments.
Tuesday

June 27th, 2006 (Lbs)

ME Lower - Rear Squat- 60x12, 90x12, 120x10, 170x6
GM's- 60x12, 90x12, 130x12
Ham Curl- (6)x12, (7)x12, (8)x12
Standing Calves- 60x15, 90x15, 120x15, 150x15, 180x15
Leg Raises- 3x10
Decline Sit Up- 3x10 (First weighted 10lbs)
Thurs
ME Upper - Decline Bench 60x8, 90x8, 130x8, 170x8
Front Delt Raise 15x12, 20x12, 25x12
Tri Extension (kb) 10x12, 12x12, 15x12, 20x12, 25x12
Chainsaws 50x6, 55x6 ,60x6, 65x6, 70x6
Hammer 15x12, 20x12, 25x12, 25x12
Sat
DYN Lower - Stiff Legged Dead
Front Squat
Quad Extensions
Incline Sit Ups
Knee Tos or Ups

DYN Upper - Close Grip Bench
High Pull Rows
Tricep Extensions
Barbell Bi Curl
Side Delts
 
I don't understand why you've marked ME/DE days.
Maximum Effort = you are going to use a compound lift or variation thereof and work towards a single, double,or triple.
Dynamic effort = you will use submaximal weight (usually 45- 70%) to develop speed and power.

I could easily be wrong, but it looks to me that if gave the HST info in the Training Information sticky a read through it would help your organization a bit. You'll still be able to do the lifts you want, but these articles can give you a clearer picture of why you're doing what your doing and ideas for improvement.
 
MsBeverlyHills said:
dude- this is a total mess...5 sets of 5 dozen tri extensions??? re-read the stickys at the top & redo.
Click to expand...
Ya 5 sets of triceps...x12 reps
 
Man that workout is making me tired just reading it. Looks like grap if you want to put on muscle IMO. Do some reading.

Perp
 
You guys are reading this wrong. One day
ME Lower - Rear Squat- 60(LBS)x12, 90(LBS)x12, 120(LBS)x10, 170(LBS)x6
GM's- 60x12, 90x12, 130x12
Ham Curl- (6)x12, (7)x12, (8)x12
Standing Calves- 60x15, 90x15, 120x15, 150x15, 180x15
Leg Raises- 3x10
Decline Sit Up- 3x10 (First weighted 10lbs)
 
It's a waste of time trying ot talk to this kid, he never listens and in the end he just wants you to look at his gay pics on the internet.
 
You should do both 1 leg standing calf raises and two leg standing calf raises, since obviously one leg standing raises hit the inside part of the calf whereas two-legged hits the outside part.
 
You guys just can't comment on it huh. It's built around westside. Can someone please tell me whats wrong with it.
 
Bro - they already have. That routine is as far from Westside as is possible, IMO. Not to flame you but several peeps have said to read the training stickys - your routine shows that you have not.

I switched to a 5x5 4 weeks ago and it is a real program - try it. It is devised by people that are willing to take the time to research and that have countless hours in the gym. I guarantee it will whip your ass by week 4.
 
al420 said:
Bro - they already have. That routine is as far from Westside as is possible, IMO. Not to flame you but several peeps have said to read the training stickys - your routine shows that you have not.

I switched to a 5x5 4 weeks ago and it is a real program - try it. It is devised by people that are willing to take the time to research and that have countless hours in the gym. I guarantee it will whip your ass by week 4.
Click to expand...

he already tried the 5x5 (or so he says), it's just not cool enough for him... He needs some mad cable cross overs yo!
 
I already tried 5x5, for 8 weeks, and I liked it, but you can't do it forever.
 
Ilovetolift said:
I already tried 5x5, for 8 weeks, and I liked it, but you can't do it forever.
Click to expand...
With those lifts I'd have severe concerns about using a WSB style template (unless they are kilos). The bottom line is that the quickest way to add power is to increase the max significantly (something there is a bit of a struggle for a more advanced lifter so you wind up training both facets of strength). This is why there are so many studies floating around questioning speed work, they used novice lifters and it just doesn't make sense at that level (the correlation between increases in max or near max strength and ability to generate speed with submax weights is very high until you get to a point where strength is developed to such a point that it becomes a different animal and more specific training can be beneficial). You won't see the disparity. Believe me, if Louie Simmons could go in the gym, load up his best set of 5 on the squat rack and add 5lbs to it every week for 8 weeks, you'd better believe he'd be doing it and be damned what program he had to use to get it. Unfortunately that option is not available to him and the overwhelming majority of lifters at the club.

5x5 is not meant to be a static program, I don't care whether you use it or some deviation of it, or do something totally different. Bottom line - you don't need to get fancy, you don't need some uber-secret program, you need to get your lifts up and you need to spend time, come up with a reasonable plan of progression, and hard work doing it.

This was posted by Tim Harold a ways back when someone wanted to know if WSB was good for size (and yes it is but): "Thats what i always have younger lifters do when they get started. im a big beleiver in 5x5 and basic hard assed training before getting into any fancy training methods. 5x5 will do you well for a while. just train hard consistently." And if you don't know who Tim is, maybe run a search.

In other words, you don't need fancy, you don't need to be training different facets of strength. You are a novice who needs to stop thinking, figure out a reasonable program and plan of progression - then bust your ass and move some iron. BTW, the plan of progression is often overlooked but it can make a haphazard layout into one that produces stellar results and the most well through out schedule into utter dogshit.

Probably not what you wanted to hear and I imagine you've heard something similar before from the posts above. Unfortunately there are no shortcuts through hard work. The program itself doesn't matter, to get better and improve your lifts significantly you will need to work hard at something and pound on it rather than run around trying to reinvent the wheel or locate the most optimal square millimeter to do your pounding. Better to take something very good and pound the living shit out of it with all you have for a few months and push your lifts up than to spin around aimlessly wasting your time trying to think of the best possible way to do it (and to be honest, you won't be able to make that decision until you have the experience of significant progress over a long time period anyway - so there's really no point in doing mental masturbation with it right now).
 
Madcow2 said:
With those lifts I'd have severe concerns about using a WSB style template (unless they are kilos). The bottom line is that the quickest way to add power is to increase the max significantly (something there is a bit of a struggle for a more advanced lifter so you wind up training both facets of strength). This is why there are so many studies floating around questioning speed work, they used novice lifters and it just doesn't make sense at that level (the correlation between increases in max or near max strength and ability to generate speed with submax weights is very high until you get to a point where strength is developed to such a point that it becomes a different animal and more specific training can be beneficial). You won't see the disparity. Believe me, if Louie Simmons could go in the gym, load up his best set of 5 on the squat rack and add 5lbs to it every week for 8 weeks, you'd better believe he'd be doing it and be damned what program he had to use to get it. Unfortunately that option is not available to him and the overwhelming majority of lifters at the club.

5x5 is not meant to be a static program, I don't care whether you use it or some deviation of it, or do something totally different. Bottom line - you don't need to get fancy, you don't need some uber-secret program, you need to get your lifts up and you need to spend time, come up with a reasonable plan of progression, and hard work doing it.

This was posted by Tim Harold a ways back when someone wanted to know if WSB was good for size (and yes it is but): "Thats what i always have younger lifters do when they get started. im a big beleiver in 5x5 and basic hard assed training before getting into any fancy training methods. 5x5 will do you well for a while. just train hard consistently." And if you don't know who Tim is, maybe run a search.

In other words, you don't need fancy, you don't need to be training different facets of strength. You are a novice who needs to stop thinking, figure out a reasonable program and plan of progression - then bust your ass and move some iron. BTW, the plan of progression is often overlooked but it can make a haphazard layout into one that produces stellar results and the most well through out schedule into utter dogshit.

Probably not what you wanted to hear and I imagine you've heard something similar before from the posts above. Unfortunately there are no shortcuts through hard work. The program itself doesn't matter, to get better and improve your lifts significantly you will need to work hard at something and pound on it rather than run around trying to reinvent the wheel or locate the most optimal square millimeter to do your pounding. Better to take something very good and pound the living shit out of it with all you have for a few months and push your lifts up than to spin around aimlessly wasting your time trying to think of the best possible way to do it (and to be honest, you won't be able to make that decision until you have the experience of significant progress over a long time period anyway - so there's really no point in doing mental masturbation with it right now).
Click to expand...
You keep saying hardwork but this program is hardwork. It is devised around WS because its set up like one. Obviously the intentions are a lot different, I'm not trying to build my one max life.
 
Ilovetolift said:
You keep saying hardwork but this program is hardwork. It is devised around WS because its set up like one. Obviously the intentions are a lot different, I'm not trying to build my one max life.
Click to expand...

You're missing his point, man. WSB is hard work obviously, but it is complicated and unnecessary for somebody who can progress by simply adding weight to the bar each week. Complex training principles came about not because they are so much better than just adding weight to the bar, they came about because people reach a point where they can no longer just add weight to the bar. Fancier isn't better, it just becomes necessary for an advanced lifter.

You're what? 5'10 or something and about 175 with low bodyfat and you're a kid, late-teens or something, right? With that in your favor and the numbers you listed, the sky is the limit for you....you can make so much progress by just getting strong at 1 squat, 1 pull, and 1 press by pounding away at just them and eating, you don't need the headaches of micro-programming and using boards and chains and bands and boxes and speed work and rotating lifts.

Keep the hard work simple until you have to complicate it, and even then, ONLY complicate it as much as you have to.
 
As for your original question, that routine you listed is a headache.....you can't just look up an advanced routine and try to mimic it....and advanced routine is a very specialized thing used for a temporary period of time with a lot of variables to consider for the INDIVIDUAL lifter.....if you have to ask about a routine, you're not ready to design an advanced one......The reason for cookie-cutters and the "5x5" on this site is because it serves as a crutch for people until it stalls, when it stalls they are at a point where they know their bodies well enough and they know program design well enough to make up their own program.....NO advanced routine is good for anybody but the lifter using it, NO advanced lifter posts a "critique my routine" thread....you see what I am saying?? What you posted looks like you did a little research and try to put together something, I give you credit for that, but it is not necessary right now, and it really makes no sense because an advanced routine is done for a specific purpose, if you can't explain what you're doing and why you're doing it, then you shouldn't be doing it.....

If you're at a loss, I can write you up something basic thats a little mental break from the 5x5 that you did....but really, scrap the routine you posted, do 4 movements tops and get good at them....you've got a lot of potential, don't run around in circles and overthink a "routine".
 
One more thing, lol, You're kind of at a "I did 5x5 for 8 weeks now what" point.....there is no 'now what'....it isn't about a "program", it is about progression of big lifts, if you were making progress you keep going until you stop making progress, when you stall, you make an adjustment here and there....running a new program every 8 weeks just because it's sexy to do or just because you got bored will take you in one big circle.....stop thinking about routines and think about moving up big lifts the simplest way your body will allow.
 
I guess it really comes down to this, what do you want to do?

1) Achieve a goal in lifting (i.e. add 100lbs to your best 8RM squat or whatever) as expeditiously as you can at this point in your career.

2) Screw around and play mental masturbation with theory and templates that you absolutely don't understand (i.e. proper implementation is far more than set of days and exercises to do), require a significant amount of experience to employ correctly, and are totally inappropriate for you at this point (reread my post again, reread Tim Harold's comment within, figure out who Tim Harold is, reread all of Biggt's posts above).

Back to my point about working hard that eluded you, or perhaps you eluded it: first, you work smart and develop and appropriate plan for progression. Then you work hard at it. Plenty of people bust their ass in the gym and work hard and make no progress post newbie gains except through copious amounts of drugs to make up for their shitty stimulus and planning. Hard work = 5 steps per round. A bad plan is 2 left, 2 forward and 1 back. Working smart ensures that all 5 steps are forward. Also note that a slacker with a good plan can often move faster than a moron busting his ass, and yeah I've seen it happen which is why people go to great length to give people who are willing to work hard the tools with which to make good choices.

That's honestly all I can do and all I'm willing to do. Take what you want from that and best of luck (if you are smart, you won't need it).
 
Ilovetolift said:
I already tried 5x5, for 8 weeks, and I liked it, but you can't do it forever.
Click to expand...
Why not? I have been doing it for almost 2 years now and still making gains on it.

Perp
 
Protobuilder said:
Don't waste your time, guys. The good advice in this thread will fall on deaf ears.
Click to expand...
I've begun to see it as the blue and red pill from the Matrix.

You take the blue pill, you forget what you've heard, go back to the magazines and training guru boards preaching golden faith based programs or new scientific breakthrough ways and look for that tiny little ingredient or combination of exercises in your training or trace mineral intake that you were missing that makes you huge and pile on muscle.

Or, you take the red pill, realize that there is no magic just various methods for putting weight on the bar and then you get to work putting that weight on the bar as often as possible for you (welcome to programming), improving your lifts and eating.

All we promise is the truth and we are compelled to offer it because we genuinely want to see you do well in your endevour and life, but one is always free to go around searching and trying everything under the sun until they finally learn it for themselves.
 
Some very good posts in this thread, despite where they were being directed. Hopefully another beginner will stumble upon this thread and learn from it so it's not a total waste of gold.
 
Protobuilder said:
Don't waste your time, guys. The good advice in this thread will fall on deaf ears.
Click to expand...
I'd like take the time to tell you, that you are a complete newb, when you exceed or even match my progress to date, talk to me. Your 30 years old bud and started over 200lbs. I've had enough shit talk from you, now stop being a know it all, and stop making rediculous posts, they help no one but your ego, which i can tell may not need any.

Biggt, thanks for all that time it took to write your posts. I'm not going to lie, I'm 5'8'' 165 lbs (you were close!) just turned 19. My current max lifts, are 315x6 Deadlift, 210x5 ATF squat, and 200x5, or 205x3 bench. I milked 5x5 pretty well, or what do you think about these lifts? I just didn't think I could make much more linear progression that wasnt 5 pounds in over a month, do you think it's worth it? The program that I posted was made by me, and my friend, who himself is a powerlifter, 585lbx3 deadlift at 230lbs, not bad. I also got advice from a amatuer bodybuilder, who has a degree in biochemistry and is 50 years old with plenty of lifting experience (encouraged me to buy Vitargo). He uses nothing less than 15 reps, and advised me to try higher reps. One other BIG this is... I have a 1.5 inch pin in my left index finger, so deadlift, nope, bent over rows...nope. With all of this info, what should I do? Thanks

Also, my weights or top reps will be increasing weekly. We had my weaknesess in mind ( dealt/ pec tie in, middle back ) plus working around my surgery, thanks again.
 
I think I see now what you are shooting for with this program. Your terminology had me confused. I beleive a more accurate description may be Dual Factor Hypertrophy Training- DFHT. Both Westside and DFHT have incorperated elements of the Soviet training model into their systems, but towards different ends.
Dual Factor Training by Matt Reynolds, the leading proponent of DFHT, gives a brief rundown. I have a more detailed .pdf article with a sample workout log below.
Your medical condition makes more sense of your workout, and I'm not one to argue selection as I often make atypical choices. It'll be interesting to see how it works out for you.

:bfold:
 
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Well, I see the attachment uploaded anyway....

Also, that being said about exercise selection, I would like to point out the absence of overhead presses and any real mass builders for back- pullups or T-bar rows maybe?
 
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Ilovetolift said:
You keep saying hardwork but this program is hardwork....

.ME Lower - Rear Squat- 60(LBS)x12, 90(LBS)x12, 120(LBS)x10, 170(LBS)x6...

....My current max lifts, are 315x6 Deadlift, 210x5 ATF squat....
Click to expand...
that's your idea of hard work??? you can do 210x5 squats, but in your workout youre only manning up to do 170x6.... that and the fact that it looks like youre doing 3 warmup sets of squats and that one "working" set... :rolleyes:
 
Madcow said:
With those lifts I'd have severe concerns about using a WSB style template (unless they are kilos). The bottom line is that the quickest way to add power is to increase the max significantly (something there is a bit of a struggle for a more advanced lifter so you wind up training both facets of strength). This is why there are so many studies floating around questioning speed work, they used novice lifters and it just doesn't make sense at that level (the correlation between increases in max or near max strength and ability to generate speed with submax weights is very high until you get to a point where strength is developed to such a point that it becomes a different animal and more specific training can be beneficial). You won't see the disparity. Believe me, if Louie Simmons could go in the gym, load up his best set of 5 on the squat rack and add 5lbs to it every week for 8 weeks, you'd better believe he'd be doing it and be damned what program he had to use to get it. Unfortunately that option is not available to him and the overwhelming majority of lifters at the club.

5x5 is not meant to be a static program, I don't care whether you use it or some deviation of it, or do something totally different. Bottom line - you don't need to get fancy, you don't need some uber-secret program, you need to get your lifts up and you need to spend time, come up with a reasonable plan of progression, and hard work doing it.

This was posted by Tim Harold a ways back when someone wanted to know if WSB was good for size (and yes it is but): "Thats what i always have younger lifters do when they get started. im a big beleiver in 5x5 and basic hard assed training before getting into any fancy training methods. 5x5 will do you well for a while. just train hard consistently." And if you don't know who Tim is, maybe run a search.

In other words, you don't need fancy, you don't need to be training different facets of strength. You are a novice who needs to stop thinking, figure out a reasonable program and plan of progression - then bust your ass and move some iron. BTW, the plan of progression is often overlooked but it can make a haphazard layout into one that produces stellar results and the most well through out schedule into utter dogshit.

Probably not what you wanted to hear and I imagine you've heard something similar before from the posts above. Unfortunately there are no shortcuts through hard work. The program itself doesn't matter, to get better and improve your lifts significantly you will need to work hard at something and pound on it rather than run around trying to reinvent the wheel or locate the most optimal square millimeter to do your pounding. Better to take something very good and pound the living shit out of it with all you have for a few months and push your lifts up than to spin around aimlessly wasting your time trying to think of the best possible way to do it (and to be honest, you won't be able to make that decision until you have the experience of significant progress over a long time period anyway - so there's really no point in doing mental masturbation with it right now).
Click to expand...

Ilovetolift said:
You keep saying hardwork but this program is hardwork. It is devised around WS because its set up like one. Obviously the intentions are a lot different, I'm not trying to build my one max life.
Click to expand...

I'm actually a little shocked that you chose to dispute Madcow rather than try to absorb his point(s).
 
Protobuilder said:
I'm actually a little shocked that you chose to dispute Madcow rather than try to absorb his point(s).
Click to expand...
i'm not shocked... ***EDIT: must stay away from flaming - resisted for so long***
ilovetolift... at your weight and age you will still make gains from 5x5 or any similar workout. so many other bigger guys have done it and pushed up their maxes too so why shouldn't it work for you if your eating enough. which reminds me - if you say 8 wks was too much, then (again at your size/age) YOU AREN"T EATING ENOUGH. period. if you still want to argue further, go ahead because this is where everyone has probably had enough of giving good advice to you.
 
ilovetolift, were you cutting or restricting cals during the initial 8 week run? Also, what are your goals at this point? Good training is good training, it is just that gains need to be looked at on a curve so to speak if you're on a calorie restricted diet.

Lifts are all relative to the individual, in and of themselves no lifts are bad and none are good, the only thing that is 'bad' or 'good' is the progression of the individual. You've made a lot of progress over the past year r so from what I recall and that is something to be proud of. I remember you saying you put on 30lbs in a year or so, so that tells me you know how to eat and you'll actually do it. No problem taking the time to offer input, you got some flames in the thread, but I think your posts get a little misunderstood many times. You were consistent with the original 5x5 until the injury, so I know you'll follow something through.

Here is the first order of business.....normally, I wouldn't tell a younger lifter this, but it seems necessary here due to the circumstances. STOP thinking of anything you do in the gym as a "routine". Progress isn't made by a layout (doing certain lifts for certain sets/reps on certain days of the week). Progress is made by getting good at certain lifts, the actual layout is just a way to go about things. I'd rather you come in to the gym whenever you feel like it and squat and do one other lift than have you overthink days/sets/reps/percents/exercises. The problem with somebody who isn't an advanced trainee just going on feel and instinct is that they don't know enough about training theory and about their own bodies to set it up and do it effectively, hence "programs" or "cookie-cutters".

The part about not being advanced is a compliment....beginner/intermediate/advanced has NOTHING to do with amount of weight lifted, it has to do with potential left for progress. You're a LEAN 165lbs and look to be pretty much a pure mesomorph, that says to me that those numbers you posted are nowhere near your ultimate potential, so you do have a lot more room for simple progress. I'd suggest upping your calories though and maybe set both short-term and long-term goals.

I still firmly believe that you can keep making fast progress by just putting weight on the bar. Lets do this. YOU pick 4 exercises you want to train for the next 8 weeks or so and tell me if you want to do full body workouts or some type of upper/lower or squat and pull/press split.
 
theprofessor said:
that's your idea of hard work??? you can do 210x5 squats, but in your workout youre only manning up to do 170x6.... that and the fact that it looks like youre doing 3 warmup sets of squats and that one "working" set... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I just started back after almost 2 months of not trainging.
 
BiggT said:
ilovetolift, were you cutting or restricting cals during the initial 8 week run? Also, what are your goals at this point? Good training is good training, it is just that gains need to be looked at on a curve so to speak if you're on a calorie restricted diet.

Lifts are all relative to the individual, in and of themselves no lifts are bad and none are good, the only thing that is 'bad' or 'good' is the progression of the individual. You've made a lot of progress over the past year r so from what I recall and that is something to be proud of. I remember you saying you put on 30lbs in a year or so, so that tells me you know how to eat and you'll actually do it. No problem taking the time to offer input, you got some flames in the thread, but I think your posts get a little misunderstood many times. You were consistent with the original 5x5 until the injury, so I know you'll follow something through.

Here is the first order of business.....normally, I wouldn't tell a younger lifter this, but it seems necessary here due to the circumstances. STOP thinking of anything you do in the gym as a "routine". Progress isn't made by a layout (doing certain lifts for certain sets/reps on certain days of the week). Progress is made by getting good at certain lifts, the actual layout is just a way to go about things. I'd rather you come in to the gym whenever you feel like it and squat and do one other lift than have you overthink days/sets/reps/percents/exercises. The problem with somebody who isn't an advanced trainee just going on feel and instinct is that they don't know enough about training theory and about their own bodies to set it up and do it effectively, hence "programs" or "cookie-cutters".

The part about not being advanced is a compliment....beginner/intermediate/advanced has NOTHING to do with amount of weight lifted, it has to do with potential left for progress. You're a LEAN 165lbs and look to be pretty much a pure mesomorph, that says to me that those numbers you posted are nowhere near your ultimate potential, so you do have a lot more room for simple progress. I'd suggest upping your calories though and maybe set both short-term and long-term goals.

I still firmly believe that you can keep making fast progress by just putting weight on the bar. Lets do this. YOU pick 4 exercises you want to train for the next 8 weeks or so and tell me if you want to do full body workouts or some type of upper/lower or squat and pull/press split.
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I agree I can make fast progress by putting weight on the bar, and that's what I'm doing. This program is kind of like a 5x5, only pin pointing my weaknesess and working around my injury. Eating is NOT a problem, oh heck no! :) When I had my surgury I was down to 156(:() and it's been 2 weeks now, and I'm back up to 165ishplus minus, you know how it goes. Thanks dude.
Ps. 5x5 burns the shit out of you.
 
Ilovetolift said:
Ps. 5x5 burns the shit out of you.
Click to expand...

There is no golden program, there is no 5x5 (read Glenn's info in the 2nd quote here and sit with it long and hard until it really sinks in: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4658227&postcount=235), what is presented are largely general cookie cutters that tend to be 'about right' for the people likely to use them. They are meant to teach programming not to be idealized routines for everyone at every time - no one has ever said this and it is a sad state of affairs that too many people jump to this horrendouse and erroneous conclusion. Volume may be too high or too low for an individual, their timing may be wrong i.e. they might try using it after a period of very heavy work in a similar range on the same lifts and stall fast, any number of things. So although they are not and will never be likely be perfect bullseyes for any one individual and timed to address everything perfectly (even the best coaches are often making educated guesses that get refined over time) - they tend to at least hit the target. And that's a lot better than most people who have no idea there is a target and are just firing blindly in all over the place hoping to suddenly find the 'right' slice of advice from any random guy that gives some smidgen of hope or direction.
 
ilovetolift......please do not make Madcow leave us again...you will be banned if you don't take his advice....j/k....realize that between Madcow and Biggt you have all the answers you will ever need. Period.

Also - like Perp said, he has been on a liner 5x5 for 2 years. If you can make progress every week just start over evey 9 weeks w/ new numbers.
 
al420 said:
ilovetolift......please do not make Madcow leave us again...you will be banned if you don't take his advice....j/k....realize that between Madcow and Biggt you have all the answers you will ever need. Period.

Also - like Perp said, he has been on a liner 5x5 for 2 years. If you can make progress every week just start over evey 9 weeks w/ new numbers.
Click to expand...
Thats the thing, I stopped, 205x3- missed 2 reps.
 
Ilovetolift said:
Thats the thing, I stopped, 205x3- missed 2 reps.
Click to expand...
Maybe you need to reread that link at the bottom of the last page. Nothing lasts forever, you can't just always ram ahead and never miss a rep. Part of programming is knowing how to deal with that correctly, not just dropping everything and finding the next program. If you got 4 weeks of 2.5% progress before you missed a single rep on any exercise - hell, I know people that would trade their left nut for that. And just out of curiosity - was it the damn flat bench? Tell me you didn't chuck the whole thing because you missed a rep or so on a single exercise (especially the bench).
 
Madcow2 said:
Maybe you need to reread that link at the bottom of the last page. Nothing lasts forever, you can't just always ram ahead and never miss a rep. Part of programming is knowing how to deal with that correctly, not just dropping everything and finding the next program. If you got 4 weeks of 2.5% progress before you missed a single rep on any exercise - hell, I know people that would trade their left nut for that. And just out of curiosity - was it the damn flat bench? Tell me you didn't chuck the whole thing because you missed a rep or so on a single exercise (especially the bench).
Click to expand...
Well yes it was the flat bench, but i wasnt going anywhere over my 210x5 squat or 170 bbell row. But you made a very good point. SHould I just give this program Im on a try?
Tuesday

June 27th, 2006 (Lbs)
July 5th, 2006
Lower - Rear Squat- 60x12, 90x12, 120x10, 170x6/ 65x12, 95x10, 125x8, 175x6
GM's- 60x12, 90x12, 130x12/ 65x12, 95x12, 135x12
Ham Curl- (6)x12, (7)x12, (8)x12/ (7)x12, (8)x12, (9)x12
Standing Calves- 60x15, 90x15, 120x15, 150x15, 180x15/ 65x15, 95x15, 125x15, 155x15, 185x15
Leg Raises- 3x10/ 3x12
Decline Sit Up- 3x10 (First weighted 10lbs)/ 3x12(10lbs)
June 29
Upper - Decline Bench 60x8, 90x8, 130x8, 170x8
Front Delt Raise 15x12, 20x12, 25x12
Tri Extension (kb) 10x12, 12x12, 15x12, 20x12, 25x12
Chainsaws 50x6, 55x6 ,60x6, 65x6, 70x6
Hammer 15x12, 20x12, 25x12, 25x12
July 1
Lower - Stiff Legged Dead 60x10, 80x10, 110x10, 140x10
Front Squat 60x10, 90x8, 110x6, 130x6
Quad Extensions (7),(8),(9),(10),(11) x12
Decline Sit Ups 3x10 (10lbs)
Knee Tos or Ups 3x12
July 3
Upper - Close Grip Bench 60x12, 80x12, 120x12, 140x12
High Pull Rows 40x10, 50x10, 60x10, 70x10
Tricep Extensions (8)x12, (9)x12, (10)x12, (11)x12
Barbell Bi Curl 35x12, 40x12, 40x12, 40x12
 
upper/lower splits are how I do my thing, but you have all kinds of fluff in that routine. Cut it back to compounds only and see how much weight you can add to the bar

the other stuff ultimately just prevents you getting up to meaningful weight on the exercises that count
 
yeah, ilovetolift, upper/lower splits are fine, anything is fine if your compound lifts are moving up. You really need to watch the clutter though, leg extensions won't make you a better squatter and they won't grow muscle, upping your squat and eating grows muscle.

Just don't lose focus of what you're trying to do and don't start training to "get sore". Keep the squats and presses moving up.

Also, once more, there are no 'programs'...all a program is, is a picture of temporary time, it is ideal for a finite period and no more and no less. If you get stuck or hit a plateau, you need to handle it, you can't let it derail everything you're doing and go searching for a "new routine", the new, better, perfect routine doesn't exist. In my opinion, the idea of a magic component is what holds back just about everyone who claims to be 'plateaued'.
 
Ilovetolift said:
Well yes it was the flat bench, but i wasnt going anywhere over my 210x5 squat or 170 bbell row. But you made a very good point. SHould I just give this program Im on a try?
Tuesday

June 27th, 2006 (Lbs)
July 5th, 2006
Lower - Rear Squat- 60x12, 90x12, 120x10, 170x6/ 65x12, 95x10, 125x8, 175x6
GM's- 60x12, 90x12, 130x12/ 65x12, 95x12, 135x12
Ham Curl- (6)x12, (7)x12, (8)x12/ (7)x12, (8)x12, (9)x12
Standing Calves- 60x15, 90x15, 120x15, 150x15, 180x15/ 65x15, 95x15, 125x15, 155x15, 185x15
Leg Raises- 3x10/ 3x12
Decline Sit Up- 3x10 (First weighted 10lbs)/ 3x12(10lbs)
June 29
Upper - Decline Bench 60x8, 90x8, 130x8, 170x8
Front Delt Raise 15x12, 20x12, 25x12
Tri Extension (kb) 10x12, 12x12, 15x12, 20x12, 25x12
Chainsaws 50x6, 55x6 ,60x6, 65x6, 70x6
Hammer 15x12, 20x12, 25x12, 25x12
July 1
Lower - Stiff Legged Dead 60x10, 80x10, 110x10, 140x10
Front Squat 60x10, 90x8, 110x6, 130x6
Quad Extensions (7),(8),(9),(10),(11) x12
Decline Sit Ups 3x10 (10lbs)
Knee Tos or Ups 3x12
July 3
Upper - Close Grip Bench 60x12, 80x12, 120x12, 140x12
High Pull Rows 40x10, 50x10, 60x10, 70x10
Tricep Extensions (8)x12, (9)x12, (10)x12, (11)x12
Barbell Bi Curl 35x12, 40x12, 40x12, 40x12
Click to expand...

Do you actually read what these people are saying in this thread?
 
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