The Thread about Dead(s)............

[JKurz1]

In a previous post, it was brought up that deads may or may not be the best exercise for back (mass) development. It appears to be the consensus that the legs and then the traps take the brunt of most of the work. Agree or disagree? If so, what do you reccomend as the best overall back exericise? Straight bar or T-bar rows? Post you views...........

 

[jcp2]

Maybe not the best, but they sure do work, and i think when it comes to building the back from the waist to the traps they are the best. Now if i was a pure bodybuilder, i probaby would do my deads last, to really blast the back after it has been worked, I have done it before and it works great. Doing sets of 8-10 after a full back workout is probably the hardest i have ever gone on deads, almost vommiting.

 

[Tweakle]

deads, chins, rows... they all work slightly differently but IMO deads are the daddy, followed by weighted chins (for their slightly longer ROM than rows and more weight moved)

 

[cwick0]

deads dont bother my hamstrings one bit. They have helped build up my lower back and define my traps some more, but that's about it. I just do them now because i know they are a full body exercise.

i love wide-grip and close-grip barbell rows the best for my back, then close grip pulldowns. Unfortunately i dont get much out of wide-grip pulldowns.

 

[resonator]

If I had to choose only one movement for back development, deadlifts would be it, no question.

 

[JKurz1]

If I had to choose only one movement for back development, deadlifts would be it, no question.

Maybe for overall BODY development, but I would probably have to disagree for pure back mass.........IMO, str8 bar rows take the cake....or maybe dbell rows.........


Seems like the consensus is (for bodybuilders) to toss in some higher rep deads 3-4 sets, 6-10 reps as a finisher..........something like this:

DBELL ROW X 3
STRAIGHT BAR ROW X 4
PULLOVERS X 3
WIDE GRIP CHINS X 3
CLOSE GRIP PULL DOWNS X 3
HYPERS X 3
DEADS X 4.............................THOUGHTS?

 

[resonator]

Maybe for overall BODY development, but I would probably have to disagree for pure back mass.........IMO, str8 bar rows take the cake....or maybe dbell rows.........

Lately, I've been focusing on really pressing (and holding) my shoulders back at the top of my deadlift. Like a horizontal shrug. Sometimes I'll just do reps of only this movement. This KILLS my upper back without my biceps assisting the movement. Does it put on mass like BB rows? I don't know, but I can feel it working.

 

[cwick0]

Maybe for overall BODY development, but I would probably have to disagree for pure back mass.........IMO, str8 bar rows take the cake....or maybe dbell rows.........


Seems like the consensus is (for bodybuilders) to toss in some higher rep deads 3-4 sets, 6-10 reps as a finisher..........something like this:

DBELL ROW X 3
STRAIGHT BAR ROW X 4
PULLOVERS X 3
WIDE GRIP CHINS X 3
CLOSE GRIP PULL DOWNS X 3
HYPERS X 3
DEADS X 4.............................THOUGHTS?

I really like the idea of doing them at the very end of my back workout, especially since i dont do heavy deads and already do them for sets of 10.

Jkurz,
The deads following the hypers may wrench your back an awful lot...be careful...you have a lot to lose if something goes haywire.

 

[JKurz1]

My hypers are usually weight free.......no additional strain of the lower back.....3 sets of 20-25 reps for the burn............I like the idea of hitting deads and supersetting them with lat pulls............only problem is I don't think I can do my back routine without hitting deads first......I like to get the qorst part out of the way asap, i.e. squats, deads, etc.

 

[cwick0]

Jkurz,
You like wide-grip lat pulls? I just dont feel a good pull when i hit them, too much in the center of my back and not my lats, no matter where i bring the bar down too. I feel a 100% more of a pull when i do close grip pulldowns on the lat tower.

 

[Backlash]

I think it depends on whether you do deads sumo or conventional. I do sumo and it hits my legs more than conventional does, IMO. (Still hits erectors of course, though I never really felt it much in my lats, maybe cause my hands are close together).

I think weighted pullups are the best back exercise, though no one back exercise is enough, they all hit differently.

 

[JKurz1]

Suprised at the responses.....just last week everyone was saying deads werent the meat and potatoes for BACK............now, it appears they are..........not sure

 

[Backlash]

Different people responding then, probably. I doubt a lot of people changed their minds in a week.

 

[GOHVYORGOHME]

I love deads!! I have been doing 5x5 and adding only about 5-10 lbs a week. It's just now getting tough at 345. My lower back is fried for about 2 days after a good dead w/o. I couldn't imagine doing my deads at the end of a workout after BB rows and such.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

Suprised at the responses.....just last week everyone was saying deads werent the meat and potatoes for BACK............now, it appears they are..........not sure

so much for an accurate survey..lol Anyway i have always done BB rows but since ive added deads about 8 months ago i can only say that my overall back has gotten thicker!! Im sure walkingbeast will comment here that deads have not given him any significant mass in his back ( and i know he hits them very heavy)..I always pull from the floor and work towards heavy triples and doubles..regardless of the outcome of this thread i think everyone should give them a try then make a judgement as to whether or not they do any good..To me theyre gold!!!

 

[Debaser]

Romanian deadlifts are the best variation IMO, because they hit the lower back and hamstrings harder (yet still safely).

The best exercise for traps are row and shrug variations.

The best exercise for lats are chins (more notably palms facing each other).

Like I said, deadlifts are great, but they aren't magic. They're more of a lower body exercise than a back exercise. Don't forget which muscles are actually moving the bar...your upper body is merely "holding" the bar. Thanks in part to casualbb for helping me to realize this sooner. I used to be hard-head about deads myself.

 

[Tweakle]

imo the best variation is the one that lets you move the most weight & for me that's trap bar deads and I'm with DC & IA on this one, there's nothing a polite set of shrugs can do that pulling 600+ off the floor for reps wont. If you're deadlifting less than 4 plates then shrugs are a useful addition to build up the support muscles but why bother when deads work so much more muscle. In this case I'll listen to the 'big guys'

I agree they're not a good lat exercise, but theyre the best thing I've found for midback and trap size.

 

[Debaser]

I used to think that too. But here's how you need to look at it.

Which do you think is more conducive to chest growth:

1. A full range weighted dip, with a proper eccentric phase and all that.

2. Getting into a static dip position, with more weight but no movement--merely supporting the weight.

Now really, a shrug movement (I do incline shrugs myself) actually uses the traps as a prime mover to elevate the scapula (or retract, depending on what you're doing). A deadlift is more like #2 for the traps, in that the trapezius is merely supporting the weight, and not moving it.

 

[Tweakle]

the traps are working all the time to pull the shoulders back when you're deadlifting, whereas in an isometric dip lockout the pecs are hardly involved, but I see your point.

Don't agree but I see where you're coming from, personally I've never got anything from shrugs. alternating trap bar and stiff leg deads has really thickened up my midback but if incline shrugs are working for you then that's all the really counts!

 

[WalkingBeast]

Deadlifts seem to have only helped my lower back size and strength, and increase my traps. But thats about it. I love them as far as one of my favorite lifts to perform, but for all of my upper back size, lat pulldowns,dumbell rows, barbell rows, chin-ups, low cable pulley rows,T-bar rows have been the beef of my upper back routine. I never got any measurable upper back increase from deads even with the dramatic increase in strength over 2 years time. I was already plateaud when I started the deads however, but now my routine is going to be changed. I plan to focus more on upper back specific work and deadlift less frequently for a while. After pulling my back out, slightly, again a few days ago, deadlifts seem to be tearing me up more, then the good they are doing at the moment. I may take a break from them for a while and just tear up my upper back with t-bar rows and the other exercises I mentioned. Thats when I put on my back size. Since I am able to sustain my deadlift strength over long lay offs from the exercise, Im thinking of just doing weighted hyper extentions for some maintenance, while I practice squatting and possibly build my strength on that for a while. I can always go back to deads later and come back stronger.

 

[b fold the truth]

I could not imagine life without deadlifts.

B True

 

[view]

In a previous post, it was brought up that deads may or may not be the best exercise for back (mass) development. It appears to be the consensus that the legs and then the traps take the brunt of most of the work. Agree or disagree? If so, what do you reccomend as the best overall back exericise? Straight bar or T-bar rows? Post you views...........

IMO, its between the barbell row and the wide grip chin. I believe bb row is better than tbar row, because the plates on a t-bar kinda limit your ROM.

I also don't do deadlifts.

 

[FistOfCain]

I've been meaning to try deadlifts. Nobody does them at my gym so I am afraid of developing bad form.

 

[Backlash]

I drove about 8 or 9 hours to train with people who could show me how to properly deadlift. (Dallas TX to Kansas City MO).

 

[JKurz1]

Great responses! I did them tonight and will continue to do so every other week (Str8 leg deads on the off weeks).......no matter what the f-they do, there's just something about them that just "makes sense"...lol........we've all lost our minds!

 

[anthrax]

IMO, deadlifts = 70% legs + 20% lower back (spinal erectors) + 10% others (biceps,forearms, shoulders,.....)

 

[b fold the truth]

I drove about 8 or 9 hours to train with people who could show me how to properly deadlift. (Dallas TX to Kansas City MO).

You are a wise man in search of knowledge. It would be hard to respect that much more.

B True

 

[Scaggs]

In my opinion deads and rack deads are the king daddy for the back. and i always do the core moves first. follow deads with chins, t-bar rows or seated rows. take some time off from lifting and then go in the gym and do only 3 sets of deads heavy and watch how much of the body is sore from that. it drives the natural hgh out.

Scaggs

 

[JKurz1]

In my opinion deads and rack deads are the king daddy for the back. and i always do the core moves first. follow deads with chins, t-bar rows or seated rows. take some time off from lifting and then go in the gym and do only 3 sets of deads heavy and watch how much of the body is sore from that. it drives the natural hgh out.

Scaggs

Take a few days off and do just about anything, esp. parking lot lunges, squats, and you'll still be sore for days........For me, nothing targets the back like heavy barbell rows............I think Dorian might agree on this...........

 

[Scaggs]

Take a few days off and do just about anything, esp. parking lot lunges, squats, and you'll still be sore for days........For me, nothing targets the back like heavy barbell rows............I think Dorian might agree on this...........

hey everybody has their own method to their madness. Whatever works stick with it. Thats really all it is. Are you talking about bent over barbell rows?

Scaggs

 

[JKurz1]

hey everybody has their own method to their madness. Whatever works stick with it. Thats really all it is. Are you talking about bent over barbell rows?

Scaggs

NO! DO AS I SAY!!!!!!!!!! Joking and I 100% agree................bent rows are my meat and potatoe!

 

[Scaggs]

Hey bent over rows are a killer exersise no doubt. I have them in a few of my routines. they're almost just as demanding as deads I think anyway.

Scaggs

 

[Debaser]

Rows are of course, a necessity. I do 2 variations:

1. Low row, underhand grip, for a lower trap emphasis...hits the biceps pretty hard too.

2. High row, overhand grip, to focus on the upper traps and rear delts.

I of course do chins as well...rows can't really compare in the lat growth division.