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the right way to train

bigp3

New member
I know there is a ton of training programs out there and people say this one is better that one does not work the debate goes on and on. I agree that there are programs that are much more productive then others. I am not going to get into my opinions on what works better and what does not. I know this can spark some major arguments and is not the whole point of what I am talking about. What I am going to do is give the basics that are required to make any program work to its fullest potential.
Okay the bottom line here is that what makes a muscle grow as far as training goes is progressive overload. This is the continual and gradual increase in intensity over the days, months and years that you train. What this translates into is increasing by one rep or adding five pounds each progressive workout. Basically, it boils down to always doing something more than you did before.

How do I insure progressive overload each and every workout? Well first off most guys don’t write down their workouts. I think my partner and I are the only ones I have seen at my gym who do it besides a few girls. Don’t laugh!! I know it drives me fucking nuts at my gym to see guys doing the same weights and reps for years on end. What the hell are they doing and they are the same ones that ask me how I am getting stronger and bigger. My point here is if you don’t write down your workouts, how in the hell are going to know what you did the last workout. I know I can’t remember what I did yesterday much less how many reps I did on the incline bench last Thursday. So, in order to progress you must write down what you do and continually try to top your previous weights. Bottom line here is if you don’t increase and your weights and intensity progressively you will not grow, period. This is an example of attention to detail at its finest. So what if your buddies laugh at you for writing down what you do, it will be you who is laughing in the end.
Overtraining is another problem that I see spreading like a pack of horny cockroaches in my gym. I see knuckleheads who come in and do bench every day the workout and wonder why they are not seeing gains. Come on, get serious. Another thing, just because Markus Ruhl can do 40 sets for one body part does not mean you can and recover from it too. In order to grow all you need to do is overload the muscle more than you did in the previous workout. Bottom line here, there are some freaks out there that can grow from volume training but I am not one of them. I think some of these guys could grow from mowing their lawns. Listen to your body folks, if you are not growing try scaling back your volume and frequency a bit and avoid overtraining like the bubonic plague. Don’t get me wrong, this is not an excuse to workout like a pussy.

Here is another thing I must emphasize about training. Basic compound movements are a must in your quest to get big, bar none. I am not saying that all the machines are bad, there are some great ones out there, but nothing can beat barbell rows, dead lifts and squats. It amazes me that I can count the number of dudes at my gym that I have seen doing dead lifts on one hand. No wonder I am one of the only guys with a big back. Out of the thousands of members there are at my gym only about 5 or 6 do dead lifts and two of them include my partner and myself. All I hear is excuses when it comes to these exercises. They hurt my back, blah blah blah blah. Don’t be a pussy and just do them! They hurt everyone’s back.
Consistency with your training is another key. I don’t mean missing workouts. Most of us are sticklers on not missing. I am talking about picking one program and sticking with if for the better part of a year or indefinitely. How can you possibly expect to progressively increase your weights (i.e. overloading your muscle) if you are constantly changing your exercises. How the fuck are you supposed to be a stronger dead lifter if you rotate this exercise out after a month or two. It is not going to happen jack! When you keep flip flopping things you never get stronger and not getting stronger means not getting bigger. Pick one thing and stick with you will see results! I don’t buy into this tricking the muscle bullshit either. All the muscle knows is stimulus and overload. Like it knows what the fuck you are doing to it. Mr. Muscle says “hey Bob tricked me with those pulldowns today I must grow now”. Bottom line here is simplicity. Keep it simple stupid.
 
too many people overcomplicate their training. If you look at the truely massives guys over the years such as yates and colemen they tend to do pretty basic hard core workouts.
 
what really opened my mind to "abbreviated" training is Stuart McRoberts book BEYOND BRAWN. I believe the basic concept in it is invaluable for everyone interested in weight training.
 
bigp3 said:
I know there is a ton of training programs out there and people say this one is better that one does not work the debate goes on and on. I agree that there are programs that are much more productive then others. I am not going to get into my opinions on what works better and what does not. I know this can spark some major arguments and is not the whole point of what I am talking about. What I am going to do is give the basics that are required to make any program work to its fullest potential.
Okay the bottom line here is that what makes a muscle grow as far as training goes is progressive overload. This is the continual and gradual increase in intensity over the days, months and years that you train. What this translates into is increasing by one rep or adding five pounds each progressive workout. Basically, it boils down to always doing something more than you did before.

How do I insure progressive overload each and every workout? Well first off most guys don?t write down their workouts. I think my partner and I are the only ones I have seen at my gym who do it besides a few girls. Don?t laugh!! I know it drives me fucking nuts at my gym to see guys doing the same weights and reps for years on end. What the hell are they doing and they are the same ones that ask me how I am getting stronger and bigger. My point here is if you don?t write down your workouts, how in the hell are going to know what you did the last workout. I know I can?t remember what I did yesterday much less how many reps I did on the incline bench last Thursday. So, in order to progress you must write down what you do and continually try to top your previous weights. Bottom line here is if you don?t increase and your weights and intensity progressively you will not grow, period. This is an example of attention to detail at its finest. So what if your buddies laugh at you for writing down what you do, it will be you who is laughing in the end.
Overtraining is another problem that I see spreading like a pack of horny cockroaches in my gym. I see knuckleheads who come in and do bench every day the workout and wonder why they are not seeing gains. Come on, get serious. Another thing, just because Markus Ruhl can do 40 sets for one body part does not mean you can and recover from it too. In order to grow all you need to do is overload the muscle more than you did in the previous workout. Bottom line here, there are some freaks out there that can grow from volume training but I am not one of them. I think some of these guys could grow from mowing their lawns. Listen to your body folks, if you are not growing try scaling back your volume and frequency a bit and avoid overtraining like the bubonic plague. Don?t get me wrong, this is not an excuse to workout like a pussy.

Here is another thing I must emphasize about training. Basic compound movements are a must in your quest to get big, bar none. I am not saying that all the machines are bad, there are some great ones out there, but nothing can beat barbell rows, dead lifts and squats. It amazes me that I can count the number of dudes at my gym that I have seen doing dead lifts on one hand. No wonder I am one of the only guys with a big back. Out of the thousands of members there are at my gym only about 5 or 6 do dead lifts and two of them include my partner and myself. All I hear is excuses when it comes to these exercises. They hurt my back, blah blah blah blah. Don?t be a pussy and just do them! They hurt everyone?s back.
Consistency with your training is another key. I don?t mean missing workouts. Most of us are sticklers on not missing. I am talking about picking one program and sticking with if for the better part of a year or indefinitely. How can you possibly expect to progressively increase your weights (i.e. overloading your muscle) if you are constantly changing your exercises. How the fuck are you supposed to be a stronger dead lifter if you rotate this exercise out after a month or two. It is not going to happen jack! When you keep flip flopping things you never get stronger and not getting stronger means not getting bigger. Pick one thing and stick with you will see results! I don?t buy into this tricking the muscle bullshit either. All the muscle knows is stimulus and overload. Like it knows what the fuck you are doing to it. Mr. Muscle says ?hey Bob tricked me with those pulldowns today I must grow now?. Bottom line here is simplicity. Keep it simple stupid.


EXCELLENT post!! Great to have you aboard!!
 
Markus Ruhl?.....don't laugh...I didn't have a clue who this guy is...

Did a google image search....pretty impressive.
 
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I agree, I never grew at all until I scaled back from 12 sets to 9 sets per bodypart. At my gym, I see alot of over-undertraining. Dudes will work their chests and arms 3 times a week, and knock out 2 sets a week on the pussy body squat, or leg extensions; and say their being cautious not to overtrain their legs because they walk all day :rolleyes: .
 
Most people fail to have a plan to their training. They just head into the gym with a ho hum attitude and just wing it every day. I think I will go in and do 3 sets of bench for 8 reps. Come on please! I guarantee if you do this you will look the same next year as you do this.

One thing I can assure you is that most people that are great at anything had a plan of attack for becoming great. They constantly worked towards new and better goals never looking back or becoming content with the level they had acheived. This principle holds true to everything you do in life including training.

So, what we have learned here is that you need to have a plan. You need to track your progress and set goals. If things are not working you make adjustments. It is that simple!!
 
You mean I have to squat to get big?

Can't I just do some leg presses and extensions? I feel the leg presses more in my quads and I use the leg extension to shape my quads as well. The leg curl has relly helped with my development in the hamstring department, especially form a side-chest pose.

B True
 
casualbb said:
Question: How do you define intensity?

There are many ways to describe intensity when training, but we want to focus on what intense means concerning muscle growth. I would say running a marathon would be as intense as it gets, but does that induce muscle growth? No!! You could do 50 sets of barbell curls. Is this intense? Yes it sure is, but it is not going to cause you to get bigger. So, I am sure you can see where I am going with this by now.

Let’s delve into what would be defined as the proper intensity to cause muscle overload and induce growth. Let’s establish the overload principle again here first. The overload principle simply states that muscles grow when the stimulus is increased from the previous workout (i.e. increased intensity). For our definition, increased intensity means more weight or more reps than the previous workout, not more sets. Yes, you say more sets would be more intense. I agree that it would be more work than before, but this does not mean you are getting stronger and we all know that stronger means bigger. You can see the problem with doing more and more sets. If I do one more next week than the week before and do this for a year for increased intensity where am I going to be. Fifty more sets of bench in a year. No way is this is crap going to work at all. I am just going to be one seriously overtrained motherfucker then. What you need to do is do a moderate amount of exercises with an all out balls to the wall work set on each which will cause overload. This set should go at the very least be to complete positive failure and when possible to negative failure. This will be more than enough overload to make you grow. You will find out that going all out like this you will not be able to do a ton of exercises and sets. Now this is what intensity is by weight lifting definition. Hit your muscles hard, go home, rest, eat and grow. Then you do it all over again.
 
b fold the truth said:
You mean I have to squat to get big?

Can't I just do some leg presses and extensions? I feel the leg presses more in my quads and I use the leg extension to shape my quads as well. The leg curl has relly helped with my development in the hamstring department, especially form a side-chest pose.

B True

Man I hope you are not serious about the squats. Yes leg presses and leg extensions do isolate you quads better. I agree with that statement. I would also say that cable flyes isolate your chest better than benches. I think anyone would agree with this. But, I bet also most people would agree some form of barbell pressing is much better for inducing muscle mass in you chest. It is a time tested and proven method that basic compound movements are much better for adding mass than any machine. I would guarantee that you are not going to find any guys that have 30" plus quads that have not squated. It just does not happen. For some reason people are scared to death to do squats and deadlifts. I guess it is because they are a motherfucker to do. If you are serious about bodybuilding then I say squats are a requirement. If you just want to look pretty for the girls then by all means ditch the squats.
 
Also, don't you train under doggcrapp? Or have I mistaken you for someone else.
 
Shew that makes me feel a lot better that he was joking about the squats. Now I feel like a real retard,, lol You never can tell around here though,,, lol. Yes, I do train with doggcrapp. I have tried not to push those ideas on anyone even though they do work amazingly. I am just trying to present the basic principles that I have found that do work, so some of the younger guys on the board can weed through a lot of the crap and train in an effecient manner.
 
Sorry man...I was hoping that everyone would understand that I was joking.

I squat 2x a week and deadlift at least once. My best squat is 800 and my best raw deadlift is 705.5 x 1. My favorite days of the week.

B True
 
bigp3 said:
The overload principle simply states that muscles grow when the stimulus is increased from the previous workout (i.e. increased intensity).
...
What you need to do is do a moderate amount of exercises with an all out balls to the wall work set on each which will cause overload. This set should go at the very least be to complete positive failure and when possible to negative failure. This will be more than enough overload to make you grow.

Okay, I thought this was the case. Just to keep from confusing newbies, let me point out that "balls to the wall" failure training is NOT necessary for progress.

DC's method is one way to do training. For people who buy into the intensity myth, it's great because it forces you to increase the weight frequently, as you should. But it's the increased weight from session to session, NOT increased intensity, that yields the program's results. An important distinction.
 
casualbb said:
Okay, I thought this was the case. Just to keep from confusing newbies, let me point out that "balls to the wall" failure training is NOT necessary for progress.

DC's method is one way to do training. For people who buy into the intensity myth, it's great because it forces you to increase the weight frequently, as you should. But it's the increased weight from session to session, NOT increased intensity, that yields the program's results. An important distinction.

I agree with you about the weight increases. In my definition of intensity I stated that this is done by increasing your weights and or reps from the previous workout. This is why I did not even bring up DC methods since it always seems to stir up things. Whether you agree with him or not is one thing, but I think we can all agree that more weight = more size. By raising your weights on a regular basis you are raising your intensity and I think this is something everyone who is striving to be bigger should work towards.
 
very true casual. it is not intensity per se, but an increased load from session to session that causes growth. For example, say one week i bench press 275x5 and the fifth rep was two short of failure. The next time i do chest, say i add 5 pounds and do 280x5, again two reps short of failure. Both times i could have gotten two more reps, but instead on this particular program, i choose to be able to hit my chest again more frequently by not going to failure. Did my intensity increase? Yes, i would say a little, as that fifth rep with 280 was a little tougher than my fifth rep with 275. But, intensity is not the bottome line here, instead the increased load will serve my means to bigger and stronger muscles. By slowly increasing my lifts like this, i can account for progressive poundage and in turn become bigger and stronger.
 
I guess I should make it clear what I meant. Increase weight = increased intensity in my definition. So, I agree with you guys.
 
Right on bro. I got a little wary when I saw "intensity," which is one of the most ambiguous and mis-used words in the weight training lexicon.
 
bigp3, i knew exactly what you were saying and am in agreement, but i was just giving my view on what it takes to build strength and muscle.
 
There are MANY ways to increase intensity. Recently...I've decreased the weight used and increased the intensity in other ways to get the desired results. Intensity can be increased by:
Less rest
Super sets
Giant Sets
more reps
forced reps
more volume
etc...

Moving more weight does not always mean that you will be bigger...not always. I am always increasing my intensity in one way or another...always.

B True
 
to a certain extent b fold the truth i see what your saying. but in the end, the stronger muscle, will be a bigger one. i can superset, giant set, drop-set etc. to my heart's content, but the bottom line for me, is an increase in weight in good form. Sure, i'm aware of these ways to increase intensity, but that wasn't the point i was trying to make. What i'm trying to say is that constant weight progression in safe form is what yields the most strength and muscle. THEN, i can start to manipulate my set procedure if all is going well with my progression of weights.
 
I understand you, and what you are saying.

Just wanted to point out that when you get bigger, you will not always be stronger on the core exercises. I get bigger from doing higher reps but I don't get stronger from them.

B True
 
It all goes back to science and the overload principle. "Progressive overload induces muscular hypertrophy" these words are not mine, but from an A&P text book and are a pretty widely accepted scientific notion. Now granted, there are many ways to cause progressive overlods (i.e. supersets, giant sets and so on) but more weight seems to be the most obvious way. I would bet my left nut that someone who can squat 495 has bigger legs than someone who can squat 225 and so the debate continues.
 
bigp3 said:
It all goes back to science and the overload principle. "Progressive overload induces muscular hypertrophy" these words are not mine, but from an A&P text book and are a pretty widely accepted scientific notion. Now granted, there are many ways to cause progressive overlods (i.e. supersets, giant sets and so on) but more weight seems to be the most obvious way. I would bet my left nut that someone who can squat 495 has bigger legs than someone who can squat 225 and so the debate continues.

I think that your example of 225 and 495 is a little big in the jump to make the example. I know guys with tiny legs who can squat 400+...and guys with much bigger legs who can squat 315.

Trust me though...I push myself to always get stronger every week. I'm not concerned with size though...at all.

B True
 
b fold, I agree with you bro and I know my example is a little drastic. There is a guy in my gym that puts up 455 on the bench with ease and he looks like it would break him in half.

My point here was to give the newbies some direction. I just sick and tired of seing guys in the gym doing the same shitty weights week after week and asking me why they are not getting bigger. You know the knuckleheads I am talking about. Most of these guys think it is some kind of drug not hard work that gets you there. Obviously you have worked hard to get where you are at and maybe it can rub off on some of the new guys around here. Thanks for the discussion bro, I enjoy the wealth of information I have learned on here from everyone and best of luck in your competitions.
 
I gotcha...and agree with you. It takes heavy weights to get anywhere in either of our sports.

I wish that it didn't...I wouldn't hurt so much so often.

B True
 
When you flex a muscle, not all of the fibers are really contracting. Through certain methods of training you can increase the number of fibers that are flexing each time, thereby giving you greater strength. But by doing so you haven't really gained mass. You've just become more efficient. Max work and dynamic work are two ways of becoming more efficient.

Big ain't strong. Strong is strong.
 
bigp3 said:
I would bet my left nut that someone who can squat 495 has bigger legs than someone who can squat 225 and so the debate continues.


Looks like you're gonna lose a nut.


495 guy: 70 fibers and 60 of them fully flex with each contraction

225 guy: 100 fibers and 30 of them fully flex with each contraction


Just to illustrate the point that strength and size are not words that can be used interchangeably.
 
JT Iron said:
And I'm not trying to nitpick, I just enjoy being a pain in the ass. :D

You ever think about lifting weights?

Maybe you would get a better grasp on things if you ACTUALLY lifted...

:qt: :qt: ;)

B True
 
casualbb said:
B that wasuncalled for. Do you personally know jt and know that he doesn't lift at all?


Clint's just mad because I stole his Lynyrd Skynyrd collection and won't give it back.

;)
 
lol

Yes...he is a buddy of mine who can deadlift nearly 800...RAW!.

B True
 
that is a strong DL raw, I bow down. I also have to say I opened up a can of worms with this post huh,,,, lol.
 
this post seemed to stir up some shit for sure even though I did not intend it to,,, lol
 
bigp3 said:
this post seemed to stir up some shit for sure even though I did not intend it to,,, lol

No way man...I don't think that you stirred up anything (unless I missed a string of posts somewhere).

I just train different with different goals in mind.

B True
 
great posts.....everyone. this would be a good post to paste to the people who just get here with a vague idea of what to do
 
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