The Reaganomics Fraud:

[mrplunkey]

Also keep in mind that those numbers dont include state taxes. When you factor in local income, sales, and property taxes, the middle class gets boned even futher - state taxes are much more regressive than federal taxes.

That's not true at all. Property taxes go up with property value. If a top earner doesn't want a high-end piece of real estate, there's no reason they should pay higher taxes.

And the same can be said for sales taxes.

Plus, state taxes are graduated and in loony states like CA, include additional penalties for $1M+ earners.

 

[75th]

That reduction in the top rate isn't a gift -- it's the top earners pushing-back against repressive tax rates. And every time Barry opens his mouth with his class warfare rhetoric, the top earners plan to reduce their tax burden further.

lol

The top earners dont need an excuse to try and reduce their tax burden. It's only natural - I dont blame them for it. IF I made $1 million per year I'd make sure my accountant had me pay as little as possible too.

Its worth noting, however, that depending on which polling company you look at (Rasmussen, Gallup, etc) between 63-68% of the top 1% support a tax increase on the wealthy. The folks who despise the idea, for some reason, are the top .01%. Unfortunately, they are the folks with the lobbyists and the ability to constantly feed misinformation on the benefit (or lack thereof) of tax breaks for the wealthy.

And based on your numbers (I'd still like to see your source), what's the total effective tax rate for the middle class? Maybe it did only drop 1% -- but what's the base number?

My source is the only place you can get these numbers - the CBO. What was your source?

The aforementioned middle class effective tax rates fell from 27.7% to 25.7%.

 

[75th]

That's not true at all.

Youre kidding, right?

Even if we didnt have numbers to back it up (which we do via a study done by the Institute on Taxation & Economic Policy in 2007) it's not hard to believe that those with lower incomes pay a greater % of their income via taxes levied through local and state channels.

ETA from the study:

The average state and local tax rate on the best-off one percent of families is 6.4 percent
before accounting for the tax savings from federal itemized deductions for state and local
taxes. After accounting for this tax savings — an effect commonly referred to as the “federal
offset” — the effective tax rate on the top one percent is a mere 5.2 percent.

The average tax rate on families in the middle 20 percent of the income spectrum is 9.7
percent before the federal offset and 9.4 percent after — almost twice the effective rate that
the richest people pay.

The average tax rate on the poorest 20 percent of families is the highest of all. At 10.9
percent, it is more than double the effective rate on the very wealthy. This group generally
derives no benefit from the federal offset.

 

[musclemom]

That's not true at all. Property taxes go up with property value. If a top earner doesn't want a high-end piece of real estate, there's no reason they should pay higher taxes.

That's not always the case. I told you my property taxes (that includes school taxes, garbage and sewer rental) are $6,000-odd. My home's value has NOT increased in 20 years. In fact, properties in my neighborhood, when they DO sell, are going for about what they went for 20 years ago. The taxes have crept up every year, though and have never been reduced. And ain't no way my property is in any way considered "high end."

And I don't even have it the worst, proportionately the highest property taxes in the country are paid by any given homeowner in New York or New Jersey, even a putz like me knows that.

 

[mrplunkey]

lol

The top earners dont need an excuse to try and reduce their tax burden. It's only natural - I dont blame them for it. IF I made $1 million per year I'd make sure my accountant had me pay as little as possible too.

Its worth noting, however, that depending on which polling company you look at (Rasmussen, Gallup, etc) between 63-68% of the top 1% support a tax increase on the wealthy. The folks who despise the idea, for some reason, are the top .01%. Unfortunately, they are the folks with the lobbyists and the ability to constantly feed misinformation on the benefit (or lack thereof) of tax breaks for the wealthy.


My source is the only place you can get these numbers - the CBO. What was your source?

The aforementioned middle class effective tax rates fell from 27.7% to 25.7%.

Link to the Rasmussen or Gallup poll please.

 

[75th]

I'll find em when I get home. While were at it, link to source of aforementioned claim that the top pay 38% compared to near 30% according to the CBO. And to the claim that state taxes are more progressive as opposed to regressive.

ETA here's some polls covering most Americans - I'll find the wealthy specific ones when I can:

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-mon...icans-support-ending-tax-cuts-for-the-wealthy

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/...cans-support-raising-taxes-on-the-wealthy.php

Notice that in both, taken months apart, a majority of Republicans favor higher taxes for the rich as well.

Must be those republicans that are actually serious about cutting the deficit.

 

[mrplunkey]

lol

The top earners dont need an excuse to try and reduce their tax burden. It's only natural - I dont blame them for it. IF I made $1 million per year I'd make sure my accountant had me pay as little as possible too.

The lengths the top earners are willing to go depend on the overall tax climate. Once you get past the simple ways to defer taxes, the remaining ways are less convenient. We're already working on ways to mitigate the upcoming 2.3% medical device tax in 2013 and the only way we can do it is to place EtO sterilization in countries like Guatamala and DR so the product never makes entry into the US. It's not cheap and an improperly managed gas sterilizer becomes a bomb -- but in the face of a 2.3% top-line tax, it's worth it.

At GE, we spent (I'm guessing a least a few hundred million) on lobbyists, tax consultants and tax vehicles because the return on investment was worth it.

Barry's class warfare rhetoric just fires-up the anti-tax crowd and will result in less US jobs and lower US tax revenues.

 

[mrplunkey]

I'll find em when I get home. While were at it, link to source of aforementioned claim that the top pay 38% compared to near 30% according to the CBO. And to the claim that state taxes are more progressive as opposed to regressive.

ETA here's some polls covering most Americans - I'll find the wealthy specific ones when I can:

Gallup poll finds majority favor ending tax cuts for the rich - The Hill's On The Money

Large Majority Of Americans, Including Most Republicans, Support Raising Taxes On The Wealthy | TPMDC

Notice that in both, taken months apart, a majority of Republicans favor higher taxes for the rich as well.

Must be those republicans that are actually serious about cutting the deficit.

Neither of those links say anything about 63%-68% of the top 1% supporting a tax increase on the wealthy.

I'm dying to see this poll. I'll sit tight.

 

[75th]

Neither of those links say anything about 63%-68% of the top 1% supporting a tax increase on the wealthy.

I'm dying to see this poll. I'll sit tight.

ETA here's some polls covering most Americans - I'll find the wealthy specific ones when I can:

I'm dying to see the source(s) of your previous claims as well. I'll sit tight for that.

 

[Mr. dB]

The class warfare card is easier to play than the race card because it transcends all ethnicity. Lets repeal the sixteenth amendment which allows wealthy people to pay for lobbyists to modify the tax code for their benefit and have a flat tax that excludes basic necessities. Nobody will be taxed on what they need to live which frees up capital for investment.

Any capital that is "freed up" will be from shifting the burden to the lower and middle classes, right?

How is that not also class warfare?