The Reaganomics Fraud:

[javaguru]

wealthy guy paying disproportionate level of incum tax = knot good

wealthy guy owning a company and funneling his assets through the company and escaping tax = knot good

there has to be an across the board proportional tax assigned to everyone that doesn't hide under the labels of "federal", "state", or "local" tax, nor "corporate" or "personal".




just sayin'

Reagan tried a two tiered tax system with one deduction, housing interest because everyone had it for so long it wasn't politically viable to eliminate it. That has evolved from the previous convoluted system into our current convoluted system due to political patronage. Microsoft learned the hard way that paying indirect money to the government through lobbyists was more beneficial than investing in research and development. What is a corporation to do?

 

[javaguru]

There was a time in my life when my parents were both in seminary (which in the episcopal church is basically like getting a masters degree in divinity....it's a three year program, and VERY expensive). Previous to that, my mom was the head of the nursing department at her hospital, my dad was an opera singer. We went from doing pretty well, to being poor enough to get food stamps if we wanted them (we never got them...meal plans were part of tuition). My parents are two of the hardest working people I know, and we were damn poor for a little while...I wouldn't say they made a bad life choice.

My sister qualifies for food stamps and uses them. She's a social worker raising three kids on her own (two of which are special needs) and makes maybe 35,000 a year. She works all day with mentally disabled people, still finds time to go to all her two sons various sports games, volunteers with her church, etc. She's barely making ends meet and I know for a fact she tightly budgets herself (every time she asks me for money I ask to see her bank statements so I make sure I'm not enabling any kid of bad behavior). She made a bad choice in basically marrying a deadbeat who couldn't contribute a thing financially, but I don't think there's anyone alive who doesn't have at least one mistake relationship. She would not be able to manage if not for the help she gets.

Just saying...not everyone who barely scrapes by or who uses govt. assistance is there because they did anything wrong. Granted, that's the minority, not the majority.

There are consequences to choices and they can be serious consequences. I've made a number of bad choices in my life and had serious consequences but family should be the first resort for difficult times followed by the local community charities as the last resort. Government programs create dependence because those receiving the benefits are never directly accountable to the people providing them. We may not like it but we are our brothers/sisters keepers on a local level but not on a national welfare state level.

 

[Mr. dB]

1. people forget that the income tax is less than half of federal taxes and only one-fifth of taxes at all levels of government.

They don't "forget", they hope that we forget so that they can spin it their way. Totally disingenuous.

 

[javaguru]

They don't "forget", they hope that we forget so that they can spin it their way. Totally disingenuous.

The class warfare card is easier to play than the race card because it transcends all ethnicity. Lets repeal the sixteenth amendment which allows wealthy people to pay for lobbyists to modify the tax code for their benefit and have a flat tax that excludes basic necessities. Nobody will be taxed on what they need to live which frees up capital for investment.

 

[mrplunkey]

They don't "forget", they hope that we forget so that they can spin it their way. Totally disingenuous.

Oh, we certainly don't forget. We're reminded that we pay the most income taxes, inheritance taxes, property taxes, sales and use taxes, usage fees, payroll taxes and every other tax out there.

 

[75th]

Oh, we certainly don't forget. We're reminded that we pay the most income taxes, inheritance taxes, property taxes, sales and use taxes, usage fees, payroll taxes and every other tax out there.

When all taxes are considered, you (ie the top 1%) pay less today than you have at any time over the past 50 years, and only a teeny weeny bit more than the folks in the top 20%.

The only reason the wealthy are paying a greater share than they used to is because they are the only group who's income has actually risen substantially over that time.

 

[mrplunkey]

When all taxes are considered, you (ie the top 1%) pay less today than you have at any time over the past 50 years, and only a teeny weeny bit more than the folks in the top 20%.

The only reason the wealthy are paying a greater share than they used to is because they are the only group who's income has actually risen substantially over that time.

The top 1% account for 20% of all gross adjusted incomes yet pay 38% of income taxes.

And even that is deceptive, since a huge portion of that 1% are owner-operated businesses structured as LLC's. So that 38% is money that is being diverted from new equipment, new products and new jobs.

And it is even further skewed since the top 1% is also paying capital gains. While taxed at a lower rate, these are gains from money that was already made and taxed, then risked again. That rate should be zero (or near-zero) and is instead at 20% (15% thanks to Bush).

 

[75th]

The top 1% account for 20% of all gross adjusted incomes yet pay 38% of income taxes.

And even that is deceptive, since a huge portion of that 1% are owner-operated businesses structured as LLC's. So that 38% is money that is being diverted from new equipment, new products and new jobs.

The total effective tax rate (income, payroll, capital gains, etc) for the top earners is about 31.5%. That's down from 41% in 1995.

Meanwhile, for upper middle class folks (eg incomes of $125k-200k) the same tax liability has fallen about 1% during the same time frame. Since 1979 the rate has only fallen 2%.

Rich folks = 10% drop in 10 years. Middle class folks = 1% drop in 10 years, and 2% in 30 years. Jebus.

I loves me some Reagan, but he royally fucked over the middle class and it continues to this day.

 

[75th]

Also keep in mind that those numbers dont include state taxes. When you factor in local income, sales, and property taxes, the middle class gets boned even futher - state taxes are much more regressive than federal taxes.

 

[mrplunkey]

The total effective tax rate (income, payroll, capital gains, etc) for the top earners is about 31.5%. That's down from 41% in 1995.

Meanwhile, for upper middle class folks (eg incomes of $125k-200k) the same tax liability has fallen about 1% during the same time frame. Since 1979 the rate has only fallen 2%.

Rich folks = 10% drop in 10 years. Middle class folks = 1% drop in 10 years, and 2% in 30 years. Jebus.

I loves me some Reagan, but he royally fucked over the middle class and it continues to this day.

That reduction in the top rate isn't a gift -- it's the top earners pushing-back against repressive tax rates. And every time Barry opens his mouth with his class warfare rhetoric, the top earners plan to reduce their tax burden further.

And based on your numbers (I'd still like to see your source), what's the total effective tax rate for the middle class? Maybe it did only drop 1% -- but what's the base number?