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sounds good in theory...can you give an example?? anyone else have any experience with this as you don't hear too much about this...
WM
test only cycle...
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40butpumpin
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Whatmatters said:
IMO you very well could be producing greater amounts of endogenous test than what you'd be getting from 250mg/wk exogenously. So I'd say what's the point. It's like shutting down your own production for an equal amount of exogenous test. That's just plain dumb. If you're going to do it I'd say do it enough to know you're definitely going to exceed the amount currently produced by your body. That's why I'd suggest 500mg. Just FYI I'm on 200mg ew (HRT) and that's got my test numbers at a little over 800ng/ml. It's not unheard of for bro's to produce more than that naturally, in fact much more.
40butpumpin
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jubei said:
My understanding is that can happen only with excessive use (dose and duration), much beyond what's been discussed here. As far as using it with ndex or clomid, I've used HCG many, many times w/o either of those so that's news to me. I dunno about that one jubei.
40butpumpin. There are guys that use 2 grams of test a week with no anti-e's and never get gyno, but that doesn't mean its a good idea. Here is an exerpt from an article on Hcg:
The downside is that HCG too is suppressive of natural testosterone. Because it takes the place of LH. LH is not the first step in the chain of command, instead its manufactured in the pituitary under the response of Gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) which is secreted from the hypothalamus. And since an LH mimicking agent is supplied exogenously, the negative feedback signal to the hypothalamus will still tell it to stop making GnRH, and so no natural LH is produced. This is why the product is always used in conjunction with a potent estrogen receptor antagonist like clomid or Nolvadex. When the androgen level in the body has dropped, these antagonists will lower estrogenic response creating a steroid deficit that signals the Hypothalamus to start making GnRH. When it does, after HCG therapy, testicle size is up again and shortly thereafter natural testosterone manufacture should return to normal. But therefore its crucial that users note that though HCG is essential after long cycles, it shouldn't be used without clomid or Nolvadex AND HCG should be discontinued at least two weeks before coming off Clomid or Nolvadex or else it will suppress natural testosterone itself.
The downside is that HCG too is suppressive of natural testosterone. Because it takes the place of LH. LH is not the first step in the chain of command, instead its manufactured in the pituitary under the response of Gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) which is secreted from the hypothalamus. And since an LH mimicking agent is supplied exogenously, the negative feedback signal to the hypothalamus will still tell it to stop making GnRH, and so no natural LH is produced. This is why the product is always used in conjunction with a potent estrogen receptor antagonist like clomid or Nolvadex. When the androgen level in the body has dropped, these antagonists will lower estrogenic response creating a steroid deficit that signals the Hypothalamus to start making GnRH. When it does, after HCG therapy, testicle size is up again and shortly thereafter natural testosterone manufacture should return to normal. But therefore its crucial that users note that though HCG is essential after long cycles, it shouldn't be used without clomid or Nolvadex AND HCG should be discontinued at least two weeks before coming off Clomid or Nolvadex or else it will suppress natural testosterone itself.
40butpumpin
New member
Ya know bro now that I read that I have indeed seen that exact information before so my mistake, I have read it before.
In all fairness, however, it doen't say anything about gyno. Sure it can cause a desensitization to test, any test in fact, even your own, however, gyno is from estrogen dominance. I realize this can no doubt results from suppressed test which can occur as a result of excessive hcg use, but to say using hcg alone, w/o ndex or clomid can result in gyno I still say is quite a reach, quite a reach.
I do know that I've never had a problem with the use of HCG alone. Does that make it right? Maybe not, but that makes it useful and that's all that matters to me.
Not as a cop-out, but I honestly get a little frustrated with all of the recovery approache(s) and opinions of approaches. Which is no ones fault, just the way it is.
But I have tried clomid and I felt like shit from it and IMO didn't do one positive thing for me. I've never tried ndex so I cannot comment on that.
No flame bro, I respect your view 100%.
In all fairness, however, it doen't say anything about gyno. Sure it can cause a desensitization to test, any test in fact, even your own, however, gyno is from estrogen dominance. I realize this can no doubt results from suppressed test which can occur as a result of excessive hcg use, but to say using hcg alone, w/o ndex or clomid can result in gyno I still say is quite a reach, quite a reach.
I do know that I've never had a problem with the use of HCG alone. Does that make it right? Maybe not, but that makes it useful and that's all that matters to me.
Not as a cop-out, but I honestly get a little frustrated with all of the recovery approache(s) and opinions of approaches. Which is no ones fault, just the way it is.
But I have tried clomid and I felt like shit from it and IMO didn't do one positive thing for me. I've never tried ndex so I cannot comment on that.
No flame bro, I respect your view 100%.
Alot of people have negative reactions to clomid, and personally I would think nolva would be a better match for Hcg because it is a more potent anti e and has less potential side effects. Here is an exerpt from another article on Hcg:
The side effects from HCG use include gynecomastia, water retention, and an increase in sex drive, mood alterations, headaches, and high blood pressure. HCG raises androgen levels in males by up to 400% but it also raises estrogen levels dramatically as well. This is why it can cause a real case of gynecomastia if dosages get too elevated for that person. Another side effect seen from HCG use is morning sickness (nausea and vomiting). There have been no cases of overdose complications with the use of HCG nor have there been any associated carcinomas, liver or renal impairment. HCG was at one point looked at to see if it could carry the AIDS virus, due to the fact that it is biologically active, but the latest word is that this could not be possible in any way.
The side effects from HCG use include gynecomastia, water retention, and an increase in sex drive, mood alterations, headaches, and high blood pressure. HCG raises androgen levels in males by up to 400% but it also raises estrogen levels dramatically as well. This is why it can cause a real case of gynecomastia if dosages get too elevated for that person. Another side effect seen from HCG use is morning sickness (nausea and vomiting). There have been no cases of overdose complications with the use of HCG nor have there been any associated carcinomas, liver or renal impairment. HCG was at one point looked at to see if it could carry the AIDS virus, due to the fact that it is biologically active, but the latest word is that this could not be possible in any way.
I am on the same boat. I am starting my first cycle of test. Cyp in fact. 200mg.
This is how I have planned my cycle.
1 cc shot every 3 days for 10 weeks. Does that sound right to anyone?
I as well do not want my wife to know so is there anything I can expect for my first cycle other than good gains. And what are your thoughts on my post cycle recovery. Iam hearing about some serious depression and hug e losses at the end is any of this true and if so how can it be avoided?
This is how I have planned my cycle.
1 cc shot every 3 days for 10 weeks. Does that sound right to anyone?
I as well do not want my wife to know so is there anything I can expect for my first cycle other than good gains. And what are your thoughts on my post cycle recovery. Iam hearing about some serious depression and hug e losses at the end is any of this true and if so how can it be avoided?
40butpumpin
New member
nolan64 said:
IMO you will not be able to hide 200mg cyp e3d. No way. Why do double the shots when it isn't necessary, just do 400 1x/wk. I've aleady stated my opinion of proper recovery in this thread.
Whatmatters
New member
why not?
and no one answered my last question.... i want to start with low doses as i was thinkin going with the enanth at 250mg/wk...would the HCG and/or armidex doses change at all with the smaller amounts?? or are you not recommending the 250mg/wk?
WM
