Test...How important is it?

[jcmbbfuture]

So I have been doing some brain storming lately and I have really been questioning the importance of test (mainly in high doses) as a must have to any cycle. It does have its benefits but to me the higher u go with test, the more the problems seem to outweigh the benefits. For years bodybuilders used oral only cycles with great results. Some still do today (I think its stevesmi that likes the d bol /proviron combo). Also everyone knows how suppressive test is. What exactly is wrong with running a tren only cycle if the proper ancillaries are run? Whats wrong with running a tren mast cycle or just a mast cycle for that matter? If test is needed, why in such high doses? (anything over 500 mgs seems a bit too much to me. Especially if u are running other compounds with it.) Just throwing some questions out there. Not taking one side or the other...

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[gatemoney]

Test seems to cover the sides caused by most other compounds .
Mainly the big 3
Loss of libido
Irritability
Lethargy

 

[jcmbbfuture]

Test seems to cover the sides caused by most other compounds .
Mainly the big 3
Loss of libido
Irritability
Lethargy

Yeah... I know it really helps with those effects but there are also ancillaries and other products (including natural ones) that can help with, if not completely eliminate these problems as well.

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[Nelson Montana]

Steroids need an androgenic component to be most effective and test , being pure androgen, used to be considered a good, cheap "filler." Ironically, it's exactly what steroids tried NOT to be!

Steroids were intended to promote the ANABOLIC qualities of muscle growth. The drug that came closest was Primobolin. However, Primo is subtle, slow and does not give the fullness, strength and libido boost that test does. So -- a combination of the two is perfect.

Personally, I think people lean WAAAAAAY too much on the androgenic side -- reason being -- it's more satisfying. The water gains give the impression of faster growth. They're looking at the quick fix and long the long term.

People say test is the best first cycle drug. I say it's the worst. For reasons mentioned.

 

[Judo Tom]

i really think that some test should be in most cycles. at least enough to replace what your body will not be producing.

i do like test only at around 500mg but after that you really have to think about what you are taking and why.. too often people just slap together cycles and start mixing compounds together with little rhyme or reason.

 

[crixus]

Nice thread.. I think there is pros and cons to both sides of thought..

 

[Colstreamer]

Nelson, what do you think is best for a first cycle if you don't like test?


Nulli secundus - second to none

 

[C.K.]

If you wanna look good and not be able to get it up by all means go for it... I look good to get laid so I never run a cycle without a bare minimum 250 mgs test

 

[Nelson Montana]

If you wanna look good and not be able to get it up by all means go for it... I look good to get laid so I never run a cycle without a bare minimum 250 mgs test

250 is enough to replace what is suppressed without going overboard. Some guys do a gram of crap and then add another 500-600 mgs of test to it. It's stupid.

A good first cycle? Hell, a couple of d-bol a day would give you gains faster than you've ever experienced -- if you've actually been training seriously.

 

[rich_89]

Dbol only is a good cycle. It's these stupid myths going round that you lose everything and all that garbage. If you run any steroids properly you keep your gains. I just got off a beast only and i've kepts everything so far.

 

[stevesmi]

testosterone comes with sides as well. and is severely suppressive as much as any other AAS out there.

its just not true you need to run test with a cycle. these silly rules that are bantered online that you have to run test as a base or you have to 'replace' your test in your body .. huh? when you run AAS its all derived from test to begin with.

and its definately not true you need test on cycle for libido. i've crashed harder from test only cycles then any other compound short of deca. you need to run the proper ancillaries on cycle, and you need a PCT .. PERIOD. doesn't matter if you run test only cycle or you run any other AAS.

when you inject testosterone you are still suppressing your own bodies natural production of test. and yes you will get 'shutdown' from test only cycles.

 

[Mh48500]

I personally think people lean on higher doses to compensate for poorer training or diet. Another factor might be low dosed UGLS. SInce I personally have had the chance to run pure pharmacuetical test, and then UGL...I believe there is a mg per ml difference.

Just a thought.

 

[stevesmi]

Dbol only is a good cycle. It's these stupid myths going round that you lose everything and all that garbage. If you run any steroids properly you keep your gains. I just got off a beast only and i've kepts everything so far.

exactly... dbol with proviron is one of the best 4 week cycles that exist. you will get stronger, build mass, and you will have strong libido. you definately don't need test with it. same with a beast only cycle, fantastic strength gains.

anyone who disagrees just try it yourself before hating on something you never tried.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

250 is enough to replace what is suppressed without going overboard.

This is basically what I was going to add. If you want to try tren, masteron, or whatever other stuff you like and just experience those particular AAS and what they will do for you then thats great. Just running a 200-250mg wk base of test Is a good idea to equal things out on both sides. Plus again, it will keep your libido from croaking. Some people dont have the issues others have if they were to run say tren alone or primo alone ect...

 

[jcmbbfuture]

I personally think people lean on higher doses to compensate for poorer training or diet. Another factor might be low dosed UGLS. SInce I personally have had the chance to run pure pharmacuetical test, and then UGL...I believe there is a mg per ml difference.

Just a thought.

I agree with your first point completely!! Its like I must have super high test doses to grow when all is needed is an actual legit training program and diet. Great responses guys. I have been thinking about experimenting with some other things besides test and I dont see the problem with it. If I do use it (like I am now) I will keep the doses low. I really want to run the d bol proviron cycle! Sounds great!

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[deejleos]

Love test will never run a cycle without it, except maybe a dbol only cycle


Sent from my iPhone punk!

 

[jcmbbfuture]

I think some people just want more faster. Plain and simple. To me each person can reach their limit adding more gear isn't the way to get more gains. When some one is 200 lbs and taking multiple grams of gear...something is not right period.

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[burnthiscorpse]

I think some people just want more faster. Plain and simple. To me each person can reach their limit adding more gear isn't the way to get more gains. When some one is 200 lbs and taking multiple grams of gear...something is not right period.

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Bingo!

Unles they are 200 lb and 5'6"

 

[calpoly]

Low test, high anabolics is the way to go

 

[stevesmi]

Bingo!

Unles they are 200 lb and 5'6"

well Samir Bannout was 5 7 and 195 pounds and he was mr. olympia.

its not easy being that height and having a lot of weight on your body. trust me I am 5 6.. the most i got up to was 193, but i also was 17% body fat.

you 6 foot guys have a lot more frame to hang meat on!!

 

[burnthiscorpse]

well Samir Bannout was 5 7 and 195 pounds and he was mr. olympia.

its not easy being that height and having a lot of weight on your body. trust me I am 5 6.. the most i got up to was 193, but i also was 17% body fat.

you 6 foot guys have a lot more frame to hang meat on!!

Damn bro when i saw your pic I figured you were 6'0" or so.

IIRC Shawn Ray never got much over 200 either. He was a monster for his height.

 

[MBdominate66]

I do not believe in mega dosages especailly if your the average guy just tyring to be healthy and lookn good but test is definitely a must... you natural levals begin to dip after the ages 20 21 depending on the person. It also helps you in the bedroom as well especailly in your on harsh androgenics like a tren

 

[stevesmi]

Damn bro when i saw your pic I figured you were 6'0" or so.

IIRC Shawn Ray never got much over 200 either. He was a monster for his height.

yeah he is a beast at just 5 7... his legs were huge. thats one advantage to us shorter guys, we have less knee and joint problems then the taller dudes. so we can really go all out with squats and cleans. i never had a problem with knees or elbows.. some of the taller guys i workout with always bitch about their joints.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

yeah he is a beast at just 5 7... his legs were huge. thats one advantage to us shorter guys, we have less knee and joint problems then the taller dudes. so we can really go all out with squats and cleans. i never had a problem with knees or elbows.. some of the taller guys i workout with always bitch about their joints.

Elbows bro...thats me.

 

[jcmbbfuture]

Samir was a beast though and looked great! Some of the shorter guys are some of my favorites. Lee labrada competed in the upper 170s-lower 180s and u never would have known. I understand the joint problems though. I am only a bit over 5'8 but I have gorilla long arms and my elbows take a pounding. Stevesmi...to be at that weight at your height is pretty damn good! I know I was a little generic about the 200 lb statement. Lol. Of course if u are 5'5 - 5'7 and pretty lean at 200 lbs u are a beast. Ha ha.

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[jcmbbfuture]

How do u guys think a tren/mast cycle would be? No test. Just the two and proper ancillaries.

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[MBdominate66]

Fair warning bro do not run tren without test. i repeat do not run tren without test...Tren will shut you down and for some people completey. Test would help combat this

 

[jcmbbfuture]

Fair warning bro do not run tren without test. i repeat do not run tren without test...Tren will shut you down and for some people completey. Test would help combat this

Just throwing it out there as a suggestion. A good few people have run pretty successful tren only cycles. I dont see how running this cycle will shut u down any much more than running tren with test.

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[DtownG]

Have a buddy 24yrs old already in his 5th week of pct and his cycle was Tren, test and winny! He still feels like complete shit!!!!!! Still shut down hardcore and he's taking everything for pct except hcg which is maybe why! He said he's giving himself 1 more week and if he's not recovered he's decided to go on trt on his own I told him Tren takes a long time to recover you need more time but he won't listen! Tren is no joke perfect example it can make you or break you forever!

 

[Judo Tom]

again test does not prevent shutdown/suppression.. all roids cause suppression test just adds test to your system.

you can function in the bedroom by taking test or a lot of different supps

some people grow titties off of just 300mg of test.


to recover from tren you need to take something while on to deal with the progesterone. forma/caber/prami. that will help

hcg / hcegenerate should be used

hmg should be used.

everyone should read the good threads or stickies on pct especially the ones that deal w/ tren/deca.

 

[jcmbbfuture]

Exactly Tom! Saying test is gonna help with suppression is like saying gas is gonna calm this fire. Just doesn't make sense. Pretty much any cycle is gonna suppression u regardless of what u take. The most important thing is what u take during your cycle (proper ancillaries) and your pct!

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