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Tendons pain due to sudden strength

akrama

New member
Hey guys,

This is really pissing me off to no end. My last cycle has put my knees into a lot of pain that I haven't been able to squat. I have gone on cyle that consisted of cyp and fina. My strength has shot through the fucking roof and it seemed like no weight in the gym is heavy enough for me. As a result, my tendons in my knees have been fucked up for weeks now and this shit is setting me back and pissing me off. What do you guys do in this matter?

I have been doing a little homework and found that a cream called MSM (Methylsuphonylmethane) claim to help heal tendons and provide joint support. I am getting ready to spend some money on it but I thought before I do I want to get some input from you guys...

Le'me know ... Le'me know..

BigAk

PS.. I am not blaming my cycle by the way.. I should have known better as I have been training for over a decade now.
 
msm is good for locaized pain.I have had this problem before also i didnt try msm but i used glucosamine and sugar free jello and they both got me feeling good in like 3 weeks.
 
That happened to me about a year ago. I went to the doc and he gave me a corto shot in the elbow and some anti inflammitories. I sometimes still get pains in my elbows or shoulders when I lift extremely hard, but not bad at all. The tendons just have to catch up.

The only OTC stuff I've used is Ibuprofin.
 
Use heat before your workout, stretch out really well, do fewer reps, then ice it after you are done. A warm shower or jacuzzi is also a good idea cuz it will increase the circulation to help healing. DO NOT GET A CORTISONE SHOT. You are asking for a tendon rupture. Use antiinflammatory meds like ibuprofen, or a sportscream/ben gay and massage the area to improve the circulation. Other than that, you need to rest for a bit.

T
 
patella_tendon_1.jpg

I found this while searching on Google... I thought you guys may benefit from it....... Enjoy

****************************************************
THE INJURY
The patella tendon is located just below the knee cap (patella) and is approximately two finger breadths wide. The tendon is where the quadriceps muscles at the front of the thigh converge and attach to the shin bone.



The function of the patella tendon is to transfer the force of the quadriceps muscles which, when they contract, results in the extension (straightening) of the knee. The quadriceps muscles are involved in most activities during sport, including running and kicking the ball, but the most stress is put through the patella tendon during jumping and, just as important, during landing. During jumping a player develops an explosive spring by forceful contraction of the quads muscles which straighten the knees. Together with the calf muscles, the quads push the athlete up into the air. As the athlete thenlands it is the quads that help to control the landing by allowing a small amount of knee bending to take place.

If this type of activity is practiced too much the strain on the patella tendon becomes too great and there is microscopic damage to the tissue that makes up the tendon. At first this damage may be too small to cause the player any problems. But, if the player continues to over do jumping activities, the damage will get progressiveley worse.

At times the problem may flare up and, if the reaction is inflammatory, the condition is classified as Patella Tendonitis. However, as we get older the healing response of our body is diminished and damaged tissue may not completely heal. When it affects tendon tissue this degeneration is known as tendonosis. The breakdown of the tendon is characterised by focal areas of degeneration and a proliferation of weak, immature scar tissue. The result is that the tendon loses it's tensile strength and is prone to rupture.


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SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS
Typical signs include a 'creaking' or 'grating' sound at the front of the knee, pain on sitting for long periods, pain on resisting knee straightening and pain when touching just below the knee cap; this may be exasperated by activity.

As the condition gets worse the pain becomes present all the time. This is a sign of severe tissue damage and it would be very unwise to continue to participate in sports. At this stage the tendon is so weak it is liable to rupture completely. A ruptured patella tendon is a catastrophic injury that requires surgery and a six to twelve month period of rehabilitation.

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TREATMENT
Because Patella Tendonosis is not an inflammatory condition, anti-inflammatory treatments, such as ice packs and NSAID medication, are not appropriate. In fact, NSAIDs may be counter productive as they inhibit natural chemicals that can promote a healing response.

The key to treatment of tendon degeneration is three months rest from sporting activities to allow regeneration to take place. Research has shown that the collagen scar tissue that the body lays down to heal damaged tendon, takes three months to mature to the point where it can cope with increased loads. Treatment by a Chartered Physiotherapist to promote this healing response may include heat treatments or friction massage. Once the pain has settled and enough time has been given to allow the scar tissue to mature, more active rehabilitation can be initiated.

Supervised rehabilitation with a chartered physiotherapist can help to reduce the chances of a recurrence of symptoms. This will take the form of stretching and strengthening of the quadriceps (thigh) muscles. The physiotherapist will prescribe specific exercises where the load and speed of loading are carefully controlled. The key to this rehabilitation is gradually progressing the load and this is achieved by doing what is called 'eccentric' quadriceps work.

Eccentric muscle work refers to a muscle which is lengthening while contracting - a contraction that occurs during movements such as landing and decelerating. Maximal tension is generated in the muscle during the eccentric contraction and this causes the tendon to adapt and get stronger. These are then gradually increased to the point where the tendon is under the same load as during sport. During the rehabilitation period the tendon adapts and gets stronger.

An eccentric strengthening programme forms the basis of the rehabilitation exercises detailed for this injury, and can also help with injury prevention.

Surgery is an option for severe patella tendonosis. If required, the surgeon removes the damaged tissue and reunites the healthy tissue. Sometimes a small piece of bone is removed from the bottom of the patella tendon as this is believed to cause irrritation of the tendon. The surgical intervention produces a healing response and the tendon regenerates to form healthy tissue. Again, the scar tissue should be given three months to mature before more active rehabilitation is undertaken.
 
The problem is aas accelerate muscle (and strength) development far in excess of that of tenonds. To fix the problem, you have to wait till your tendons catch up. anything else will likely just mask the problem aka treat the symptoms
 
I dont think you have tendonosis just from this brief thread, but i could be wrong. I think it is cuz of the high weight. Tendonosis is basically a remodelling of the normal tissue into scar tissue due to chronic inflammation and repetitive injury. It starts to hurt after more repetitive use and keeps hurting for awhile. The normal blood vessells that were there are gone due to the scar tissue in there place. Basically, the pain is due to the tissue not getting enough blood or oxygen. There really isnt any treatment except to treat the symptoms and/or rest for a long time, or sometimes surgery.

It takes a long time to get tendonosis. Examples are young baseball pitchers who throw curveballs at too young an age or tennis players who have medial epicondylitis, before their muscles are strong enough and who continue to play with pain for years and years. Tendonosis isnt something you get over night or even over one year most of the time. The best way to diagnose it is with a tissue biopsy which shows the scar tissue and absence of normal blood vessels. Obviously most people dont go to such lengths, and instead use the usual stuff....physical therapy, NSAID's, heat/ice, rest, etc.

T
 
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Sounds more like you are developing patella femoral disease to me if all that hurts are your knees. This is common when doing heavy squats. Quite a few of our patients have this same problem. Just drop some weight off your lifts, and be sure to wrap your knees. I had to drastically back off the ammount of weight I am using on all lifts due to the ammount of strength gains on my current cycle. The last thing you want to do is rupture a tendon due to doing to much too fast.
 
yes it is the gelatin that helps and it does work.when i need to i take one package a day and its a lot cheaper than buying other supplements you can get 4 for a dollar
 
sausage said:
yes it is the gelatin that helps and it does work.when i need to i take one package a day and its a lot cheaper than buying other supplements you can get 4 for a dollar
I do the same, its hydrolyzed gelatin.

I take Vitamin C, Gucosamine/Chondroitin, MSM, and wash it down ith some SF Jello and I have been feeling great.
 
well... In that case, I'll be adding the jello to my diet. I have been taking Glucosamine/chon./MSM all together and rubbing MSM on my knee. I want to say I am getting better but at a rate that's too slow for me. Gotta be patient..

Today .. I have attempted squats. Even though I could probably do them with some discomfort, I have decided to leave my legs alone for a little longer. I ended up doing lats instead.

Gotta be patient..... :)
 
I use KNOX gelatin. I add a pack to my protein drink in the morning (it's about 8 grams of protein too). You can but it for about $8 for a box of 32 packs.
 
Ditto on the sugar free jello. No carbs, next to zip in the way of calories and the gelatin really helps with joint pain.
 
There seems to be a lot of BS flying around in this thread, so I thought I'd give you some advise from a person that's gone through the same type of problems.

If you're using steroids, by definition you are putting your muscles into a state of hypertrophy during the cycle, which puts added stress on connective tissues. Unfortunately, tendons do not respond to steroids in the same manner as muscles. Instead of strengthening them, steroid use (especially prolonged use in overly long cycles), can weaken tendons.

In this weakened state, they are much more susceptible to micro tears that inflame the tendon and cause the painful symptoms of tendonitis. I had to work through golfers elbow in both arms, which is localized pain on the inside of the elbow, but tendonitis can manifest itself in any joint that you're putting under extreme stress from weightlifting.

That said, improper steriod usage isn't the only impetus for this kind of injury, the natural aging process can also put you at risk. As you age, (40 and beyond) your tendons don't heal as well from these types of injuries, so ignoring the pain and continuing your workout CAN result in long term degenerative tendonosis, scarring & permanent shorting of the tendon, or worse yet a more catastrophic failure like a complete detachment. (Seeing a friend's tricep roll up the back of his arm like a window shade after an elbow detachment was a pretty sobering experience for me). His problem was caused by staying on cycles that were well beyond the published saftey limits.

So... now you know how you got here, what do you do about it?

Well, if you like me, you've put in lots of hard hours at the gym and the last thing you want to do it sit around and watch all that hard work atrophy away from quitting until you're healed.

This is what got me through it.

1. Examine your technique or have an impartial but knowledgable friend watch your lifting movements.

If you're jerking or bouncing your way through the movement just to get that extra plate off the ground, this could be what contributed your problems in the first place. Ensure that you're doing well postured, slow and controlled movements. If that requires taking off a plate or two, then check your ego at the door and lighten up to a load that you can lift using proper form.

2.DON'T ICE the affected tendon.

Icing is to be done right after the original injury when swelling is apparent. It does nothing to help a tendon that isn't accompanied by swelling. In some cases it can even increase the pain by causing the inflamed tendon to constrict even further.

3. Feel free to add warmth from something like a heating pad or Icy Hot to the affected joints before and after your workout if it makes you feel better.

This will stimulate blood flow in and around the tendon and may provide some measure of relief although I found heat to be more of a placebo than an actual cure to my particular injury.

4. Buy yourself an industrial sized bottle of MOTRIN.

Motrin is an anti inflamatory, which WILL give you noticeable relief from the pain that you're experiencing and you may need to be on it for a while to work through your injury. I found that taking it and hour or so before my workout and before I went to bed produced the best results. But in the beginning when things really hurt all the time, I was taking it during the day too until the discomfort subsided.

5. Don't waste your money on Glucosamine and Chondroitin.

The combination of the two is supposed to work a little like creatine for your tendons by making them absorb more water. But in my experience, I found that they didn't produce any noticeable results other than lightening my wallet. These supplements (especially the latter) are very expensive if they're made by reputable supplement companies. A recent study showed that the majority of supplements claiming to have Chondroiton in them had little more than trace amounts. The study speculated that the high cost of manufacturing for Chondroiton may be the reason why so little of it is actually turning up in supplements.

As far as Sugar free jello goes... That hardly even deserves a response. The animal based gelatin in these products might be good for making your hair and your fingernails grow, but it's going to do absolutely nothing for an injured tendon.

6. Lighten Up (in the gym).

You've injured yourself, that's got to be painfully obvious by now. So forget your peak cycle weight lifting maximums. Back yourself down to a maintenance weight when working muscles that surround the affected tendon(s). What I mean here is, use a weight that will maintain your muscle gains and tone, but forget making any new gains for a couple months. This isn't an injury that you can just push through. If you don't back off a little, you run the risk of major damage that can in some cases become irrepairable.

7. Try different angles.

What I found during my recovery was that certain movements caused extreme pain to the affected joints while others allowed me to continue working with heavier weights without stressing the tendon. In my case, doing straight bar curls felt like someone was sticking an icepick into my elbow, but I could do cross body and hammer dumbell curls with little or no pain. This allowed me to keep working the muscles (albeit not all of them), while giving the tendons a chance to heal.

In your case, if your injury came from doing free squats, try doing isolating movements on the hack squat machine or on a quad extension machine. Try to minimize the movement that you were doing most often when you originally injured yourself.

8. DON'T GET A CORTICOSTERIOD SHOT.

This is the stuff they used to shoot into football players knees so they could play injured for a little while longer. This is absolutely a last resort that should NEVER be used to allow you to continue working out. After this type of shot, the affected tendon should be stretched to maintain mobility and rested, but NEVER stressed. (Remember what I said about steroids weaking tendons). This type of procedure makes the tendon more pliable and MORE PRONE TO INJURY if you keep trying to use it.


Hope this helped a little.
 
houseofpain said:


5. Don't waste your money on Glucosamine and Chondroitin.

The combination of the two is supposed to work a little like creatine for your tendons by making them absorb more water. But in my experience, I found that they didn't produce any noticeable results other than lightening my wallet. These supplements (especially the latter) are very expensive if they're made by reputable supplement companies. A recent study showed that the majority of supplements claiming to have Chondroiton in them had little more than trace amounts. The study speculated that the high cost of manufacturing for Chondroiton may be the reason why so little of it is actually turning up in supplements.


Gonna have to disagree here. I use Glucosamine and Chondroitin for knee pain due to cartilage problems and it is the only thing that helps. You have to take it like the bottle recommends and take it daily. My normally constant knee pain is gone while taking this supplement. If I happen to run and have to order more and don't take it for even a week, my knee starts nagging me again. I have avoided knee surgery by using glucosamine and chondroitin. My knee problem is not something that will worsen without surgery. In fact my doc suggested that if I can deal with the pain, to not get surgery b/c of arthritis issues is would cause down the road. When my grandmother broke her collar bone this helped to reduce her pain also.

Additionally, it also works in animals quite well. I know many people with dogs that are getting old that used to be very playful. It had gotten to a point where they could barely run... the vet put them on glucosamine and chondroitin and these dogs are running around again with barely any problems.

I would recommend buying a bottle and giving it a try. I used to buy mine at GNC, but it got too expensive and they weren't offering higher dosages of the product. Now I get it on www.dpsnutrition.com, the price isn't so bad and the dosage is higher.
 
Nico Cujo said:
I use KNOX gelatin. I add a pack to my protein drink in the morning (it's about 8 grams of protein too). You can but it for about $8 for a box of 32 packs.

same here

the protein is not usable for muscle building though. it's hydrolyzed collagen. only good for rebuilding connective tissue.
 
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