Sustanon-- the REAL story

[Andy13]

The above is a graph of single injections of sustanon 250, compared with other single 250mg injections of esters of 5,6,7, and 8 day half lives (using the equation posted on the graph).

The half lives assigned to each ester were:
TP- 3 days
TPP- 3 days
isoC - 7 days
dec- 10 days

I realize that these values for each half life are somewhat arguable.. But these values seem to be the most widely accepted approximations.

From the picture, you can see that the blood levels from a single sustanon injection are 2nd highest, with the highest initial blood levels being seen from the 5 day half life ester.

I should note that molecular weight of the ester was not taken into consideration.. If I had taken this into consideration, sustanon would appear even 'FASTER ACTING' than is shown. This is because the larger esters of testosterone in sustanon comprise a large portion of the T molecule.. What this means is that 100mg of the deconate ester is somewhat misleading since it doesn't amount to all that much (raw test).

I think it's important to realize, as seen from the theoretical model, that SUSTANON, despite it's 4 ester components, STILL resembles an AAS with a single ester.. And, in fact, is much faster acting than most believe.

Andy

 

[The Almighty]

Yet another awesome post by the backstreet boy turned chemist. Good man.

 

[Andy13]

Yet another awesome post by the backstreet boy turned chemist. Good man.

Chemical super-freak, sport..

 

[xsnrg]

thanks for the info........bump^^

 

[THE BOUNCER]

nice post

 

[The Almighty]

Chemical super-freak, sport..

Either way you suck.

 

[Mike P.T.]

Good post.

Sus is still my favorite test.

 

[The Almighty]

Good post.

Sus is still my favorite test.

And Mike is still Golfer's favorite boy-toy.

 

[Mike P.T.]

And Mike is still Golfer's favorite boy-toy.

How did I know you were going to follow me around after I posted. Still not letting it go ehhh bro?

How you been btw? You're boyfriend must have u real busy since I haven't seen you on the boards much lately. hahahaha!!!!

 

[The Almighty]

Been pretty good....in and out of town lately, moved into a new place and got a new job, hence my absence from the boards.

I hate you.

 

[Mike P.T.]

Been pretty good....in and out of town lately, moved into a new place and got a new job, hence my absence from the boards.

I hate you.

 

[ROAD DOG]

hey Andy,
I will be starting my next cycle in a few months,I am planning on doing 1cc ED of sustanon for 2 weeks,then 1/2cc ED for the other 6 weeks.Does this seem like a good plan?Will I benefit from shooting 1/2cc ED vs. 1cc EOD,will it make blood levels steadier?I don't mind injecting everyday so that is not an issue.Some people say you will lose too much juice stuck in the syring with 1/2cc injections ED,but I am planning on putting 2cc in a syringe at a time and injecting 1/2cc at a time to prevent waste.Of course using a new needle each time.What do you think of this idea?

 

[liquidmuscle]

good post we should have a board of nuthin but graphs and charts showing the results..for ex zyg's fina chart your sust chart

 

[Canuck4]

Bump^
Great post bro.
Karma.

 

[2Thick]

Faster than expected. Does that mean you would recommend it over straight enanthate?

 

[Golfer18--old]

And Mike is still Golfer's favorite boy-toy.

 

[Canuck4]

Faster than expected. Does that mean you would recommend it over straight enanthate?

Good question.

 

[Andy13]

Faster than expected. Does that mean you would recommend it over straight enanthate?

I guess it depends on your goals for the cycle... I would use it like enanthate in the beginning of a cycle but not toward the end of a cycle where most (as well as I) would switch to a shorter ester...

I believe someone could make-believe it was enanthate and not know the difference... so long as it's legit 250mg enanthate and not some brovel type.

Andy

 

[Andy13]

hey Andy,
I will be starting my next cycle in a few months,I am planning on doing 1cc ED of sustanon for 2 weeks,then 1/2cc ED for the other 6 weeks.Does this seem like a good plan?Will I benefit from shooting 1/2cc ED vs. 1cc EOD,will it make blood levels steadier?

250mg ED for the first two weeks will be an over-kill...

If anything.. So 250mg for the first week..

Andy

 

[Greek Freak]

can you post that chart full size so non platnum can see it.

 

[P-CURLS]

good info, and some karma too.

 

[C-Steele]

overkill... hehe... that is an understatement. I'd like to see him do 3500mg in the first 2 weeks... he'd have no nuts and huge breasts... maybe a guest shot on Son of the Beach....

j/k

Steele

250mg ED for the first two weeks will be an over-kill...

If anything.. So 250mg for the first week..

Andy

hey Andy,
I will be starting my next cycle in a few months,I am planning on doing 1cc ED of sustanon for 2 weeks,then 1/2cc ED for the other 6 weeks.Does this seem like a good plan?Will I benefit from shooting 1/2cc ED vs. 1cc EOD,will it make blood levels steadier?

 

[MohawkMuscle]

so whats the best way to use sustanon? I cc every 5 days?

 

[panerai]

How come all of them return to baseline at the same time?
I must be missing something...

 

[Andy13]

How come all of them return to baseline at the same time?
I must be missing something...

Because they have similar half lives.. (5,6,7,8 days).. If I graphed test deconate vs TP, you would be able to see the gradual taper of the deconate vs higher spike/quicker drop off of TP.

Andy

 

[panerai]

Andy, I will take your word for it. Although, when I looked at decanoate compared to phenylprop in Minto study, the difference is really big...
Nevertherless, I completely agree with you about Sustanon, it was pretty obvious after your and Zyg's posts about all the esters picking up in first 24hrs after injection.
Great post!

 

[fyrfyter]

Karma 4 U

 

[Andy13]

Andy, I will take your word for it. Although, when I looked at decanoate compared to phenylprop in Minto study, the difference is really big...
Nevertherless, I completely agree with you about Sustanon, it was pretty obvious after your and Zyg's posts about all the esters picking up in first 24hrs after injection.
Great post!

I remember seeing an actual blood chart of deca blood levels after injection... All I remember was that the measured peak was somewhere between 24-48(+?) hrs after injection.. I'm not sure how much we can assume from this... If it was a dilute injection (say, 100mg in 1ml oil), and, depending on the location of the injection, this may mean nothing to us.. Other than, of course, (as you know) ALL esters peak EARLY.. , it's not as if you inject sustanon and then, five days later, BANG..

Andy

 

[Dizzy]

The above is a graph of single injections of sustanon 250, compared with other single 250mg injections of esters of 5,6,7, and 8 day half lives (using the equation posted on the graph).

The half lives assigned to each ester were:
TP- 3 days
TPP- 3 days
isoC - 7 days
dec- 10 days

I realize that these values for each half life are somewhat arguable.. But these values seem to be the most widely accepted approximations.

From the picture, you can see that the blood levels from a single sustanon injection are 2nd highest, with the highest initial blood levels being seen from the 5 day half life ester.

I should note that molecular weight of the ester was not taken into consideration.. If I had taken this into consideration, sustanon would appear even 'FASTER ACTING' than is shown. This is because the larger esters of testosterone in sustanon comprise a large portion of the T molecule.. What this means is that 100mg of the deconate ester is somewhat misleading since it doesn't amount to all that much (raw test).

I think it's important to realize, as seen from the theoretical model, that SUSTANON, despite it's 4 ester components, STILL resembles an AAS with a single ester.. And, in fact, is much faster acting than most believe.

Andy

Sure would like to see that pic.

 

[panerai]

Andy, I think you have typo in the equation, you didn't add 1 to X in second part.

 

[Andy13]

Andy, I think you have typo in the equation, you didn't add 1 to X in second part.

I know..

It's a mistake in how I typed it ON the graph.. But I used to correct equation FOR the graph..

Andy

 

[darkvader111]

good post bro.

 

[slobberknocker]

bump, good info

 

[Lbacker06]

one amp eod is the way to keep blood levels very stable. when i take it this way i do not break out at all bc my levels are not going up and down like typical weekly enathate shots. and if you think about it its not all that much 750-1000mg a week.

 

[Bulk King]

I like to front load it with 5 shots a week then cut back to eod. Works awesome, maybe overkill for some, but test did little for me until trying it this way.

 

[liftsiron]

Good post, I've always felt a quick boost from sus as compared to either enanth or cyp.

 

[sh4dowf4lcon]

Isn't it true that HRT doctors use sust and prescribe it for like 250 mg every20 days. Someone told me this a while back, I was just curious. Not that it really means much usually those HR docs under dose their scripts anyway.

 

[Nico Cujo]

Lbacker06, you have a point there. I'm taking 1 omna EOD for the past 2 weeks and haven't broken out at all.

 

[Juice Authority]

The above is a graph of single injections of sustanon 250, compared with other single 250mg injections of esters of 5,6,7, and 8 day half lives (using the equation posted on the graph).

The half lives assigned to each ester were:
TP- 3 days
TPP- 3 days
isoC - 7 days
dec- 10 days

I realize that these values for each half life are somewhat arguable.. But these values seem to be the most widely accepted approximations.

From the picture, you can see that the blood levels from a single sustanon injection are 2nd highest, with the highest initial blood levels being seen from the 5 day half life ester.

I should note that molecular weight of the ester was not taken into consideration.. If I had taken this into consideration, sustanon would appear even 'FASTER ACTING' than is shown. This is because the larger esters of testosterone in sustanon comprise a large portion of the T molecule.. What this means is that 100mg of the deconate ester is somewhat misleading since it doesn't amount to all that much (raw test).

I think it's important to realize, as seen from the theoretical model, that SUSTANON, despite it's 4 ester components, STILL resembles an AAS with a single ester.. And, in fact, is much faster acting than most believe.

Andy

Posted by StoneColdNTO:

There seems to be two different and distinct trains of thought concerning Sustanon on the boards these days.

The first one is; Because of the 4 different esters, you have to inject frequently (EOD) in order to maintain stable blood levels. This makes sense as you would think the prop would be the first to release and the first to clear, then the phenyleprop and so on.

The second one is; Sust in reality acts more like a single ester Test, providing stable blood levels from the start. This makes sense if you think of the reason it was invented, for HRT and infrequent injections, up to 3 weeks. They certainly would not want you test levels fluctuating all over the place between injections.

 

[Juice Authority]

I look at Sust, for what it is... a LOOOONG acting ester.

Testosterone propionate 30 mg
Testosterone phenylpropionate 60mg
Testosterone isocaporate 60 mg
Testosterone decanoate 100 mg

It is really a synergetic steroid... giving better results than probably all the others (cyp, prop, and enth)... Because of the prop... it will get into the system fast, within a day... and because of the deconate, it will remain active for 3-4 weeks.

With THIS combination of esters... it is LONG acting... you cannot base your shot on JUST the propionate... sorry. You can take 500mg in one shot a week... you could even strech it to 10 days, if you wanted. I'd stick to one injection, per 7 days. You COULD take these shots mixed up 3-4 days apart... I don't think it will make much of a difference, however... especially if you mix it with an oral...

 

[slobberknocker]

I guess if I took omna or sust again, I'd just treat it like enanthate and shoot it twice a week.

 

[Goldprospector]

Great info...

 

[Texas Ranger]

I've been trying to tell guys about this for over a year now. Thanks for the valuable info you provided, Andy!!

 

[sk*]

I guess if I took omna or sust again, I'd just treat it like enanthate and shoot it twice a week.

5g per injection?

-sk

 

[slobberknocker]

5g per injection?

-sk

LOL


1g per shot, for now...

 

[Texas Ranger]

Up for people spreading misinformation.....

 

[Texas Ranger]

Up for the truth....

 

[papucho]

Can the graph be posted for non plats?

 

[trinidad]

Great post! I wondered how those esters really worked out!
Karma to you!

 

[Texas Ranger]

Still one of the GREATEST posts of all time!!!

 

[rjl296]

Still one of the GREATEST posts of all time!!!

i concur

 

[Themachine01]

can someone please post the chart for non-plats please or email it to me.

 

[Olsen Twins Banger]

^^^

 

[Gunner9043]

I am very confused about the amt to take. In the past I have taken it twice a week and had great results. Now I see people talking about a shot every day?

 

[Themachine01]

someone please post this for non-plats.

 

[bicepts101]

i shoot E3D

working great for me

 

[Nighthawkk]

Sust works, twice a week or more, it will do you right... Believe the hype lol

 

[Andy13]

=Juice Authority]I look at Sust, for what it is... a LOOOONG acting ester.

Testosterone propionate 30 mg
Testosterone phenylpropionate 60mg
Testosterone isocaporate 60 mg
Testosterone decanoate 100 mg

It is really a synergetic steroid... giving better results than probably all the others (cyp, prop, and enth)... Because of the prop... it will get into the system fast, within a day... and because of the deconate, it will remain active for 3-4 weeks.

Sustanon is faster than expected. Take a look at the deconate ester-- 100mg means nothing when the weight of the ester is taken into consideration..

Andy

 

[flex2win]

"That's heavy Oger"

 

[babbabuee]

I'd also love to see that chart. non-plat

 

[Armbreaker]

Many here seems to take a little of sustanon but where I live most guys take around 2000 mg/week. This really make results.
Are there any guys here with same experience.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

for those of you guys interested in knowing what the graph looks like, all you will see is taht following a dose of sustanon you will get a rapid increase in blood test levels (due to the two esters with a 3 day half life) and then a relatively stable amount of test for a week or so, and then a slow decline in test after about 2 weeks, and then quite a rapid decline after 3 weeks.

i dont think sustanon is a good choice for BBers on its own, because it is designed for HRT where you want to achieve relatively stable test levels which slowly decrease over about a month, and then you give another shot...and again, and again, and again...forever.

bodybuilders on the other hand want a rapid increase in test levels (ok sust does this) which we want to remain high for the length of the cycle (ok sust can do this too), and then rapidly drop off (sust does NOT do this), so we can start pct and get our endogenous test back on track. this is where sust falls on its face- it is designed for a slow decrease over a month or so, and so using it alone, you wont get that rapid drop in test that you ideally want (when i say rapid, i mean a week or two) itll take too long.

dont get me wrong, it is convenient if you are on all the time. it is convenient if you dont like lots of shots. but ideally you want to only use it for the first month MAX out of a 10 week cycle, and switch to another shorter half life anabolic afor the last part of the cycle so that you can control the drop in test levels making it nice and quick, preparing yourself for pct

like i said, sust used alone all the way through on the once a week style dosing regimes we see all the time will give you great gains...but a godawful crash at the end because pct is not as effective. actually this is probably why sust is so popular with older BBers who did not use pct- they thought they were doing an 8 week cycle when in fact, in essence, they were doing a 12 week one, and also, in the absence of proper pct with an anti e, a soft drop in test levels over time is probably what you are aiming for. (ie its a good product to use if you arent doing pct). this of course makes you say "why wouldnt anyone do pct?" well in this day and age, everyone wants to do pct. its the people 20 years ago who didnt know how to do pct that would have benefitted most from this product.

this is all hypothetical of course, im not telling people to go out and use sust witout a doctors script for muscle building. im jus trying to adress all the "wow!!" replies and the people thinking that sust is the answer for an effective cycle.

short version: sust alone = good test levels, good gains on cycle, but shitty pct, meaning a harder crash whether you like it or not (for the most part).

cheers

 

[glennds]

good post GD. can you elaborate on what a "godawful crash" means?

 

[GoldenDelicious]

by godawful crash i mean that there will be a longer period that your natural test production is offline. during this time, dose of synthetic test is so low that it doesnt stop catabolism or oppose estrogen related side effects (possible gyno, water retention, fat deposition, muscle softening) and your natural test isnt there to do its job

in the perfect cycle with perfect pct, you get a full 10 weeks (or whatever) of lots and lots of test floating around in your blood making you grow like a weed. at the end of the perfect cycle, you have a period in which your synthetic test has to be stopped in such a way that the administration of anti estrogens like nolvadex or clomid will perfectly stimulate natural test production, increasing natural test to such a degree that your body goes back to how it used to be. ie you keep all the gains after that point.

now the success of this transition will depend on 2 things: 1) how supressed your test production is (which mostly depends on how long you were supplementing synthetic test for- the longer, the worse the supression) and 2) how well you time the dose of nolva or clomid to coincide with that exact point in time where the levels of synthetic test are equal to the levels normally seen in your body (if you use nolva/clomid too late, you will have experienced a short interval where your overall test is very low, and so you will get the symptoms of "crashing"- muscle loss etc etc)

now if you have a nice, rapid drop off of synthetic test, then you can guess pretty accurately when your synthetic test will be about equal to normal endogenous test. therefore you will stimulate your testes just when you need to, and things will return to normal nice and fast, with minimum crashing.

if you use sustanon or something, it drops down so slowly that you have no idea just when your synthetic test levels will drop to a level equivalent to normal test levels. so when the hell are you supposed to start pct? unless you have access to a lab, you have a good chance of timing it wrong. therefore, logically, you will likely go for a much longer time with sub normal test levels before doing pct (you will do it late and therefore crash harder) OR, even worse, you will do your pct way too early, while your synthetic test levels are very high, making the pct ineffective, and making your end of cycle to pct transition similar to not doing pct at all.

timing is everything gentlemen. the smoother the transition between synthetic test being all that is in your body to natural test once again being the test in your body, the less time you will have to endure havnig low low test and high high estrogen, and so the less time you will have where you are crashing, and burning all the benefits of your cycle

if thats not clear enough, post up ill try to clarify

by the way, if there is a mod about, how do you feel about giving me the title "pharmacist" or something. not because i want a cool (lol!) title, but so that i can stop having to say it all the time.

cheers

 

[bicepts101]

if you're using sust you can just switch to prop for the last 4 weeks of your cycle and problem solved GD

 

[GoldenDelicious]

yep, thats the basic idea. maybe a tad less than 4 weeks

if i had some more detailed pharmacokinetic data i could tell you exactly when and how much, but i dont right now