SURVIVOR SERIES: Another disappointment.

[Big Brother Val]

I'm glad I didn't get the PPV. Not that I can, because the Direct TV shit or what not that's happening, made it impossible for me to get.

And that's a good thing.

Why?

Well... the ONLY shock of the night... Kurt Angle turned on the Alliance to cost them the win, and give the WWF the victory.

No HHH...
No major changes...
Nothing.

Just a weak card, with a weak ending. I mean... this whole thing was used to help get Kurt Angle over more as a face? Good hell! I know the WWF flopped with the whole invasion angle, but COME ON! If this is supposed to be "THE END" of WCW... why do it like that?

I figure the weak show was because they would have very low buy rate for the PPV, and that everyone would tune in tonight for Raw, to see what happened last night... so they should have a huge show tonight. If not... well... they're gonna be hurtin'.

Rumor has it, Flair might show up tonight. Also rumored are Scott Steiner, Jerry Lawler, HHH.

 

[The Shadow]

I'm glad I didn't get the PPV. Not that I can, because the Direct TV shit or what not that's happening, made it impossible for me to get.

And that's a good thing.

Why?

Well... the ONLY shock of the night... Kurt Angle turned on the Alliance to cost them the win, and give the WWF the victory.

No HHH...
No major changes...
Nothing.

Just a weak card, with a weak ending. I mean... this whole thing was used to help get Kurt Angle over more as a face? Good hell! I know the WWF flopped with the whole invasion angle, but COME ON! If this is supposed to be "THE END" of WCW... why do it like that?

I figure the weak show was because they would have very low buy rate for the PPV, and that everyone would tune in tonight for Raw, to see what happened last night... so they should have a huge show tonight. If not... well... they're gonna be hurtin'.

Rumor has it, Flair might show up tonight. Also rumored are Scott Steiner, Jerry Lawler, HHH.

It sucked BIG TIME.

Word was that McMahon wanted to flip Taker last night over to the Alliance, but the creative team talked him out of it.

I thought RVD was gonna flip to WWF as well??

 

[TheProject]

I saw that HHH was interviewed on WWF.com last night, and he's hinting that he could be back any time.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ric Flair does come in, and lead the WCW in the December Vengeance PPV.

Isn't Steiner still injured? I haven't checked his page lately, but I thought he was still out.

Lawler would be good, but I don't expect him soon. I think he'll ride out his 45 day contract with the XWF.

I dunno, I'm kinda hoping that Flair, Nash, and Hall appear tonight on Raw.

 

[saint808]

I'm praying for Flair... i mean they are in Charlotte... it'd be perfect... As for Steiner... i doubt it but in this biz i've seen stranger things happen and his contract is so close to being over with time warner that i think they will just let it run out first. Lawler is advertised to be at an event here in town on dec 13, so that makes me wonder about him... i was hoping he'd be back tonight too.


Rich

 

[saint808]

Nash is under contract until jan i think. Scott Hall has been in Japan and apparently actually staying sober... wow.


Rich

 

[TheProject]

Nash is under contract until jan i think. Scott Hall has been in Japan and apparently actually staying sober... wow.


Rich

I know both Nash and the WWF have admitted to negotiating a deal, but the WWF wants him to work more dates than he wants to work. I kinda took that to mean he's available now.

It's good that Hall's staying sober. I think it'd be fun to see the two of them make one more run.

 

[Big Brother Val]

From what I understand, Steiner is ready to go. He wanted to tour with a group in Europe, to get back into ring shape... but he's ready to wrestle.

Flair coming back, in Charlotte, makes sense.

VENGEANCE being the next PPV... I'm assuming the next few weeks will be the Alliance trying to find a way back in. I'm not sure how they'd do that.... so tonight is when they have to get the ball rolling.

If they don't have a major show tonight... then the fans are all going to feel they got robbed with the whole invasion angle. We've waited for this for years... and we got no Sting, Hogan, Steiner, Nash, Hall, or Goldberg.

The Outsiders are rumored to be coming in around Feb of 2002. Nash will not join the WWF unless Hall is also hired.

Hulk Hogan has expressed interest in coming to the WWF, for a final run before retiring. His work with the XWF is very minimal, and he even worked their first series of tapings for free. No one knows what that means for sure.

 

[TheProject]

I hope Hogan stays gone, personally. I think he's long past retirement.

It'd kick ass to see Sting come back, but I've heard he's out for good. Goldberg's got another year on his Time Warner deal, from what I understand.

They've gotta do something interesting soon, or they'll start losing fans quickly.

 

[Big Brother Val]

Yeah, Sting is officially retired, unfortunately. I really liked his work.

And yes, Goldberg still gets to sit back and get paid a hefty sum for the next year. I wish the WWF would buy out his contract, or they could make some sort of deal. I know it'd do great for wrestling. Goldberg vs. Austin... the match of the century.

I'd like to see Hogan come back, in a non-wrestling role. I just plain dig the man. I don't get why people hate him so bad. EVERYONE liked him as a kid. And even those people will say "No, I liked Savage, or the Ultimate Warrior". At what point did they turn? When he went heel? He was responsible for the rise of the WWF, and the rise of the WCW. Without him, the WWF would have went bankrupt around the time of Wrestlemania 2. Not saying you hate him, Project. Just people in general.

 

[Longhorn85]

Oh, that Survivor!

Damn! I was wondering what you guys were talking about, I thought you meant Survivor Africa on CBS. I was wondering why noone had mentioned Clarence or Lindsay...

 

[TheProject]

Yeah, Sting is officially retired, unfortunately. I really liked his work.

And yes, Goldberg still gets to sit back and get paid a hefty sum for the next year. I wish the WWF would buy out his contract, or they could make some sort of deal. I know it'd do great for wrestling. Goldberg vs. Austin... the match of the century.

I'd like to see Hogan come back, in a non-wrestling role. I just plain dig the man. I don't get why people hate him so bad. EVERYONE liked him as a kid. And even those people will say "No, I liked Savage, or the Ultimate Warrior". At what point did they turn? When he went heel? He was responsible for the rise of the WWF, and the rise of the WCW. Without him, the WWF would have went bankrupt around the time of Wrestlemania 2. Not saying you hate him, Project. Just people in general.

I was a big Sting fan too.

The problem with buying out the Goldberg deal is that he made a LOT more than the WWF wants to pay, and if they brought him in now, he'd make more than some of the other guys on the roster. Some of those same guys have clauses in their contract that state they have to be in the top percentile of salaries, and the issue just snowballs from there.

My deal with Hogan has to do with a lot of the things I read about the way he was backstage with WCW. Everything I read indicated that he was a major pain in the ass to deal with backstage, refused to job to certain people, etc etc.

I suppose I'd still like him if I hadn't read so much.

 

[saint808]

The problem with Goldberg is that he is an asshole. He even recently said himself that he would be a hypocrit if he were to sign with the wwf after bad mouthing them so much... but like i said wrestling is a fucked up industry. Hogan is just boring in the ring... he's lazy and lives off his name.


Rich

 

[Big Brother Val]

Oh yeah... Hogan played Mr. Power in the back... and bitched and moaned until he got his way. He never was that great in the ring. But back in the day, a lot of ring skill wasn't required. Hogan was charisma... he was a hero. He was an idea. And that's it. He was never a great wrestler... but you couldn't have told me that when I was a kid.

And yeah... he lives off his name. That's all he has.

I'm truly looking forward to tonights show. It's going to give us new hope... or make us turn the channel. It's a big step tonight. I hope they do something with it.

 

[saint808]

My honest opinion on the state of the wwf... fire the fucking writers... they have been stale recently... they need to bring some guys up to the top level... let jericho finally be a main eventer. They should get ther light heavywieght division rolling again.. i'm hoping when they add juvi and rey that they take advantage of the guys in ring ability.

 

[the nature boy]

Did the Alliance get the boot?

If not, I totally saw that coming. Nothing ever gets resolved in wrestling.

Sure they may bring back "The Greatest of All Time" Ric Flair. But what's that gonna do? As much as he will always be my favorite, it's not like he can wrestle anymore. They really need to bring Steiner or something.

 

[danielson]

they cancelled heat over here

it was a pity because right after a PPV, they would show it in the early hours of the morning, so it was easy to just program the VCR

saw the angle thing a MILE off......

so they gonna split into their 3 separate federation huh?......they could have made this so good but they didnt


as for the hulk....i heard he refuses to lose to anyone. that would probably piss of the management

 

[Big Brother Val]

We'll find out tonight if they get the boot or not. I'm not sure how they're going to play it off.

Not that the WCW has a lot of talent to lose, or anything. What... no more Hugh Morris? And what about Sean Stasiak? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Who gives a shit?

Steve Austin, Rob Van Dam, Test, and the Dudley's have immunity... so they have guaranteed jobs. The only person I don't see why they granted immunity was Booker T. Other than that... they can pretty much drop the WCW.

I'm sure Angle will have a job in the WWF, has he helped them win. So they have the top guys from there covered. The rest of them are just a waste of time.

And Hogan didn't like to job, unless it helped HIM out. He wasn't much of a team player. He figured if he had an idea, everyone should follow it, because he knows the business better than anyone. If they didn't agree, he just figured they were a know-nothin' punk. But I still think his image is good for wrestling.

 

[talonracer]

You guys are kidding right??

 

[Big Brother Val]

Kidding about which part, Talontracer?

 

[Y_lifter]

You guys are kidding right??

I think they are Serious !

 

[talonracer]

I mean are you guys really getting this worked up over totally fake shit which has a target audience of 8 year old boys??? Or are you just being facetious??

 

[Y_lifter]

I think they are Serious !

 

[AAP]

Ok, this is what is going to happen. Ric Flair is going to show up and over a period of time, Linda McMahon is going to swoon for him and he is going to take her for a ride on Space Mountain that will leave stars in her eyes. WHooooo! Then..... the Alliance on down the road will get another shot at the WWF - thanks to the Nature Boy who is custom made from head to toe - the Alliance is going to have a show down which they will win and as a result of that win, they will receive Smackdown as their own TV televised air time vehicle. And what will happen then is that the WCW guys will start squabbling with the ECW guys over what to call the new show or who gets the credit for winning the air time and before you know it, there will be a federation built around ECW vs. WCW while the WWF works with their in house talent.

 

[freak daddy]

Ok, this is what is going to happen. Ric Flair is going to show up and over a period of time, Linda McMahon is going to swoon for him and he is going to take her for a ride on Space Mountain that will leave stars in her eyes. WHooooo! Then..... the Alliance on down the road will get another shot at the WWF - thanks to the Nature Boy who is custom made from head to toe - the Alliance is going to have a show down which they will win and as a result of that win, they will receive Smackdown as their own TV televised air time vehicle. And what will happen then is that the WCW guys will start squabbling with the ECW guys over what to call the new show or who gets the credit for winning the air time and before you know it, there will be a federation built around ECW vs. WCW while the WWF works with their in house talent.

Ric and Linda sitting in a tree
K--I---S--S--I--N--G
First comes love
Second comes marriage
WOOOO Now theres a little Nature Boy
In a baby carriage
That was classic on Nitro when Flair said that about Liz!

 

[Big Brother Val]

Originally posted by talonracer

I mean are you guys really getting this worked up over totally fake shit which has a target audience of 8 year old boys??? Or are you just being facetious??

Wrestling is fake?

Huh?

But they punch eachother and kick eachother. And do bodyslams.... how can that be faked?

In actuality... it's fun. It's even funner to do. I wrestle in the western U.S. Until you've dislocated your shoulder, been knocked out completely, broken your hand, destroyed disks in your back, broken your nose, had a few concussions, lost a tooth, and taken a chair shot wrong to the head that opens you up and you need stitches... you don't believe it's fake. Then, when all that happens to you... you really understand just how fake it is.

I prefer to call it "choreographed". That ring isn't a trampoline, you know.

 

[freak daddy]

Wrestling is fake?

Huh?

But they punch eachother and kick eachother. And do bodyslams.... how can that be faked?

In actuality... it's fun. It's even funner to do. I wrestle in the western U.S. Until you've dislocated your shoulder, been knocked out completely, broken your hand, destroyed disks in your back, broken your nose, had a few concussions, lost a tooth, and taken a chair shot wrong to the head that opens you up and you need stitches... you don't believe it's fake. Then, when all that happens to you... you really understand just how fake it is.

I prefer to call it "choreographed". That ring isn't a trampoline, you know.

Right on my Brother!!

 

[Big Brother Val]

Also... I'm assuming you watch no TV whatsoever, right? Nothing but sports? No dramas, comedies, cartoons, commercials... nothing, right? Because they're fake..... right?

Because NYPD Blue isn't like COPS, you know. The difference is... COPS is fake. NYPD Blue is an actual documentary on NY Police Officers...

 

[Y_lifter]

I believe the comments regarding 'FAKE or REAL" refer to the MeloDrama occuring.
Not the physical aspects of the events...

 

[freak daddy]

I believe the comments regarding 'FAKE or REAL" refer to the MeloDrama occuring.
Not the physical aspects of the events...

I disagree. People who say it is fake have no apprecciation for the physical part of the business. They don't realize that those bumps can really hurt. Have some idiot drop a knee on your shoulder and dislocate it. That's not fake! There are broken bones, backs, necks,legs ,arms, and anything else you could imagine. I challenge anybody who assumes Wrestling is fake to go get in a ring with a pro. They'll be crying like a little BITCH!

 

[Big Brother Val]

Thanks, Freak. I'm not sure why people bash it so much. It's no more fake than any TV show. But in this, you can actually get hurt. There's no stunt man to take your place here. There's no multiple takes if you fuck up.

And Y Lifter... I understand what you're saying. Even if it was about the drama... refer to my comment above. All tv shows have story plots. People say wrestling is fake... like they're saying something we don't know... and then say it's a bunch of crap. Well... I hope those same people never watch TV, or go to a movie ever... because, I hate to tell you... that's all fake too.

When something explodes on a movie... the explosion itself is not fake. It's simply timed and controlled. Doesn't mean you still don't think it's cool... you just let it entertain you.

Wrestling is the only "fake" show that gets criticized for not being something it never claims to be.

Real.

 

[Y_lifter]

Bros... Read my post again OK...

I believe the physical aspect is real, yet as you stated choreographed..

I find the story lines used between bouts the funny part...

Any of you all ever watch WOW... Women of Wrestling???
Lots of hot bitches smashing each other in skimpy outfits and smashing each other's faces into thier tits...

 

[Big Brother Val]

Originally posted by FreakDaddy

I disagree. People who say it is fake have no apprecciation for the physical part of the business. They don't realize that those bums can really hurt. Have some idiot drop a knee on your shoulder and dislocate it. That's not fake! There are broken bones, backs, necks,legs ,arms, and anything else you could imagine. I challenge anybody who assumes Wrestling is fake to go get in a ring with a pro. They'll be crying like a little BITCH!

Again... thank you, my friend.

It's true.

That ring can hurt. People miss targets. You ever have someone hit you with a spinning heel kick that he undershoots on, so his heel bashes you right in the mouth while you're running straight at him?

I tell you... I've taken more abuse in the ring, than any REAL fight I've ever been in.

 

[freak daddy]

Great reply B.B.V. I always use that analogy with the movies and T.V.

 

[Big Brother Val]

Y Lifter... I do understand what you're saying. I'm glad you can appreciate what a wrestler goes through physically to entertain.

Yeah... the segments can be sort of cheesy. I agree.

I still think it's better than FRIENDS though.

 

[freak daddy]

Bros... Read my post again OK...

I believe the physical aspect is real, yet as you stated choreographed..

I find the story lines used between bouts the funny part...

Any of you all ever watch WOW... Women of Wrestling???
Lots of hot bitches smashing each other in skimpy outfits and smashing each other's faces into thier tits...

I was'nt dissing you by any means. I hope you did'nt take it that way. I just wanted to state my feelings!

 

[talonracer]

Wrestling is fake?

Huh?

But they punch eachother and kick eachother. And do bodyslams.... how can that be faked?

In actuality... it's fun. It's even funner to do. I wrestle in the western U.S. Until you've dislocated your shoulder, been knocked out completely, broken your hand, destroyed disks in your back, broken your nose, had a few concussions, lost a tooth, and taken a chair shot wrong to the head that opens you up and you need stitches... you don't believe it's fake. Then, when all that happens to you... you really understand just how fake it is.

I prefer to call it "choreographed". That ring isn't a trampoline, you know.

Uh yea I know I used to "wrestle" here locally for a few years. You can get hurt but to think that its anything but fun is silly. They decide who's gonna win in advance and you guys follow it?? Its a soap opera. You sould have seen the old ladies when i wrestled, it was a hoot.

 

[freak daddy]

Uh yea I know I used to "wrestle" here locally for a few years. You can get hurt but to think that its anything but fun is silly. They decide who's gonna win in advance and you guys follow it?? Its a soap opera. You sould have seen the old ladies when i wrestled, it was a hoot.

The old ladies are the best! There almost as fun to watch as the matches.

 

[Big Brother Val]

Yeah... I know. Last show we did, it was pretty complicated. Of course you have to know who's going to win.

Just like an episode of Walker Texas Ranger. You have the script first... then the show. You can't write it as you go along. It would be impossible to get the ref, commentators, wrestlers, and people doin' the run-in from the back to know what to do if you didn't plan it ahead.

 

[Y_lifter]

No flame taken.....
My wife and 10 yr old daughter are into WWF Smackdown and know all the storylines and characters.
As a matter of fact, that is one of the shows she get to stay up late and watch on a School night.
My kid grosses out when the big fat guy(rashiki or something) wearing the thong does the butt smash... bwahhhaahh that some funny shit.

 

[Big Brother Val]

And also... why is it such a big deal if it's planned out, Talonracer? Just out of curiosity.

If you've EVER in your life enjoyed a movie... then you have no place to say you shouldn't follow it simply because it's "planned".

 

[the nature boy]

I watch wrestling... who cares if I do? I guess I have a white trash streak in me, I could care less. I personally think some of they guys are real funny, and a lot of those guys take some seriuos bumps. I mean, one of the most common moves in the ring is a clothsline (aka lariat), and that move can seriously hurt someone. I know those guys know how to take a fall properly, but the amount of abuse the neck area recieves is amazing.

One of my ex's used to give me shit about watching wrestling, I then put her in a figure four and she shut up real quick.


And for my fellow Ric Flair fans out there:

<To Randy Savage>
Macho Man..... Macho Man! In closing, when we put you and Hogan in the hospital, I'll bring Elizabeth to see you......... After she rides Space Mountain all nite long!!! Whoooooo!!

 

[Big Brother Val]

Nature Boy... my favorite all time Flair quote:


"PIPER! ... to be the best.... you gotta beat me.

.....And I'm sayin'.... it can't.... be done.

WHOOOO!"

 

[freak daddy]

One of my ex's used to give me shit about watching wrestling, I then put her in a figure four and she shut up real quick.


[/B]

BWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAA!! That's hilarious. I do the same shit. I'll put a chic in the abdominal stretch or something.LOL!

 

[saint808]

Wrestling hurts... trust me hehe... and just try and do a shooting star press and wind up knocking yourself out.


Rich

 

[Big Brother Val]

Actually, Saint... if I tried a Shooting Star Press... I'd end up dead. But hey... I've taken a Release German Suplex from the top rope before... over-rotated slightly, landing on the back of my head, and my right knee went right into my face, and bloodied my nose and lips... and that almost knocked me out.

I won't do that again.

 

[the nature boy]

The german suplex is plain nasty. The suplex angle does is nasty too. I'm really surprised that nobody has gotten seriously hurt doing that.

 

[saint808]

Dragon suplex is my favorite... i have tons of respect for both guys who are able to perform and take that move... and i had no business on the top rope either... hehe but i could do a senton pretty easy so i figured, what the hell... i was wrong hehe.


Rich

 

[Big Brother Val]

Nature Boy... I was hurt from it.

Seriously I was.

 

[saint808]

What's funny is how you start to take some stuff for granted... i overcompensated on a hip toss and ended up ass on ankles... ouchies.


Rich

 

[the nature boy]

Nature Boy... I was hurt from it.

Seriously I was.

I don't doubt that man. What's real fucked up is when Benoit would do like 3 or 4 in a row on somebody.

I mean, you can train your neck and traps and all that but putting all that pressure on ones neck is very dangerous.

 

[Big Brother Val]

Saint... Ouch. I hear you. Kicked my legs up a bit too high in selling a choke slam... landed on my head/neck/shoulders.

Nature Boy... I was being facetious. You said someone could get hurt seriously... I was saying I was hurt... seriously. Like it seriously hurt... but I wasn't hurt seriously... okay... just fuckin' forget it.

I would take Benoit's... as he lands your lower back on his shoulder... taking a lot of the impact on himself. There's minimal pressure on the head with his German... but you can rotate over, to where you land square on your neck/head/shoulders... and your legs about smack you in the mouth...

But wait... it can't hurt me... because the move was "planned" and "fake"...

 

[Your_Moms_Kneepads]

I saw that HHH was interviewed on WWF.com last night, and he's hinting that he could be back any time.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ric Flair does come in, and lead the WCW in the December Vengeance PPV.

Isn't Steiner still injured? I haven't checked his page lately, but I thought he was still out.

Lawler would be good, but I don't expect him soon. I think he'll ride out his 45 day contract with the XWF.

I dunno, I'm kinda hoping that Flair, Nash, and Hall appear tonight on Raw.

Steiner is apparently almost ready to go. Thing is he was going to tour australia with the WWA (?) some group affiliated with Vince Russo or something. Alot of the WCW guys not picked up have gone down there to wrestle for tours of a few weeks and some PPV's.
Check his website. Im not 100% on this.

 

[talonracer]

The old ladies are the best! There almost as fun to watch as the matches.

Dude I was a "bad guy" and after one match I was strutting off yelling at the crowd and this little old lady heaved her chair at me, its unreal how worked up they get. Me and my "hated opponants" used to share alot of beer together. Its alot of fun but VERY rough on your body for damn sure, hell i'm 34 now and there's NO freaking way I could do it.

 

[Longhorn85]

I used to watch wrestling as a kid. I saw some of the guys you are talking about on the Weakest Link last week, and now I kind of want to check it out to see how they fight.