Sorry to hijack, but here's my issue...when I bulk (I always eat clean), I'll gain muscle and overall size and of course fat, typically around the mid-section.... when I diet down to get rid of that mid-section fat, I lose alot of overall size .. in my eyes and in my mind, I've lost alot of muscle... then I see pictures of these guys who have the musculature that I have while bulking, yet at the same time they're nicely shredded... I know you can't grow muscle without gaining fat.... how the heck do you keep that muscle while you try to lose that fat... it's also hard to maintain / gain muscle while you're dieting down.... such a viscious cycle!