Standing upright row's tri's or back/shoulders

[X Man]

Do it on shoulder day. The closer your grip the more traps it works. Wider grip and your hitting more delts. I like them for traps personally and use a closer grip.

i like them with a closer grip as well, but sometimes i put a killing on my tendonds

 

[blut wump]

It primarily hits traps and delts. It also puts a lot of strain on your rotator cuffs.

IMO the exercise carries more risk than potential benefit. I dropped it a long while ago.

 

[cranny]

It primarily hits traps and delts. It also puts a lot of strain on your rotator cuffs.

IMO the exercise carries more risk than potential benefit. I dropped it a long while ago.

Agree w/ BW. If you decide to do them, use a wide grip so not to put undue strain on the rotator cuff muscles. You're asking for trouble when using a narrow grip.

 

[mm107]

zomal is supposevly the best of the best......

I heard they give free refils at least lol

 

[njmuscleguy]

Agree w/ BW. If you decide to do them, use a wide grip so not to put undue strain on the rotator cuff muscles. You're asking for trouble when using a narrow grip.

was just going to chime in with the same exact thing.... wide grip is better, less chance of injury.... I do delts and traps on the same day, so I don't have to decide on which day to do this exercise

 

[UA_Iron]

I've never had a problem with upright rows.

Should I not do squats because it might hurt my knees?

 

[blut wump]

Well-performed squats are good for your knees. You'd probably know this already if you went to the training forum.

 

[Madcow2]

I've never had a problem with upright rows.

Should I not do squats because it might hurt my knees?

Dude, neither you nor the original poster on this thread gets to make comments about any training forum being weak. I'll leave it at that.

EDIT - maybe you were joking - I'm not sure, hopefully so /EDIT

Quoted below is the relevant exerpt from Arioch's squat piece complete with the corresponding references. Incidentally, Mike Stone's NSCA paper overviews this topic extensively. He is the head of physiology at Colorado Springs (this US Olympic Training Center). I'd recommend reading the entire article: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5124176&postcount=825
I'd also point you to the ones on the bench, deadlift, and snatch on my site in Section III, exercise descriptions. They are some of the best pieces around on these exercises: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm

I'd also point you to the Training Primer which covers a lot of topics like size vs. strength, overtraining & fatigue, fiber recruitment, program organization etc...http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/Topics/Training_Primer.htm

(Note the Geocities link seems to have exceeded capacity for the moment - but make sure you read the training primer. You will learn more in 10 minutes than you will in the next 2 years on these forums).

There are several schools of thought on squat depth. Many misinformed individuals caution against squatting below parallel, stating that this is hazardous to the knees. Nothing could be further from the truth. (2) Stopping at or above parallel places direct stress on the knees, whereas a deep squat will transfer the load to the hips,(3) which are capable of handling a greater amount of force than the knees should ever be exposed to. Studies have shown that the squat produces lower peak tibeo-femoral(stress at the knee joint) compressive force than both the leg press and the leg extension.(4) For functional strength, one should descend as deeply as possible, and under control. (yes, certain individuals can squat in a ballistic manner, but they are the exception rather than the rule). The further a lifter descends, the more the hamstrings are recruited, and proper squatting displays nearly twice the hamstring involvement of the leg press or leg extension. (5,6) and as one of the functions of the hamstring is to protect the patella tendon (the primary tendon involved in knee extension) during knee extension through a concurrent firing process, the greatest degree of hamstring recruitment should provide the greatest degree of protection to the knee joint. (7) When one is a powerlifter, the top surface of the legs at the hip joint must descend to a point below the top surface of the legs at the knee joint.

Knee injuries are one of the most commonly stated problems that come from squatting, however, this is usually stated by those who do not know how to squat. A properly performed squat will appropriately load the knee joint, which improves congruity by increasing the compressive forces at the knee joint. (8,(9) which improves stability, protecting the knee against shear forces. As part of a long-term exercise program, the squat, like other exercises, will lead to increased collagen turnover and hypertrophy of ligaments. (10,11) At least one study has shown that international caliber weightlifters and powerlifters experience less clinical or symptomatic arthritis. (12) Other critics of the squat have stated that it decreases the stability of the knees, yet nothing could be further from the truth. Studies have shown that the squat will increase knee stability by reducing joint laxity, as well as decrease anterior-posterior laxity and translation. (13,14) The squat is, in fact, being used as a rehabilitation exercise for many types of knee injuries, including ACL repair. (15)

1 Stance width and bar load effects on leg muscle activity during the parallel squat. McCaw ST; Melrose DR Med Sci Sports Exerc, 31(3):428-36 1999 Mar

2 Ariel, B.G., 1974. Biomechanical analysis of the knee joint during deep knee bends with a heavy load. Biomechanics. IV(1):44-52.

3 High- and low-bar squatting techniques during weight-training. Wretenberg P; Feng Y; Arborelius UP, Med Sci Sports Exerc, 28(2):218-24 1996 Feb

4 An analytical model of the knee for estimation of internal forces during exercise. Zheng N; Fleisig GS; Escamilla RF; Barrentine SW, J Biomech, 31(10):963-7 1998 Oct

5 Biomechanics of the knee during closed kinetic chain and open kinetic chain exercises. Escamilla RF; Fleisig GS; Zheng N; Barrentine SW; Wilk KE; Andrews JR Med Sci Sports Exerc, 30(4):556-69 1998 Apr

6 A comparison of tibiofemoral joint forces and electromyographic activity during open and closed kinetic chain exercises. Wilk KE; Escamilla RF; Fleisig GS; Barrentine SW; Andrews JR; Boyd ML Am J Sports Med, 24(4):518-27 1996 Jul-Aug

7 Chandler TJ and Stone MH. (1991) The squat exercise in athletic conditioning: a review of the literature. NSCA Journal. 13(5): 58-60.
8 Hsieh, H. and P.S. Walker. 1976. Stabilizing mechanisms of the loaded and unloaded knee joint. Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery. 58A(1):87-93.

9 Uhl, T.L. and P.V. Loubert. 1990. Axial compression effect on anterior displacement of the in vivo tibeofemoral joint. Master’s thesis, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, MI.

10 Shankman, G. 1989. Training guidelines for strengthening the injured knee: basic concepts for the strength coach. NSCA Journal. 11(4):32-42.

11 Tipton, C.M., Matthes, R.D., Maynard, J.A. and Carey, R.A. 1975. The influence of physical activity on ligaments and tendons. Medicine and Science in Sports. 7(3):165-175.

12 Herrick, R.T., Stone, M.H. and Herrick, S. 1983. Injuries in strength-power activities. Powerlifting USA. 7(5):7-9.

13 Panariello, R.A., Backus, S.I., and Parker, J.W. 1994. The effect of the squat exercise on anterior-posterior knee translation in professional football players. American Journal of Sports Medicine. 22(6):768-773.

14 Steiner, M.E., Grana, W.A., Chillag, K., and Schelberg-Karnes, E. The effect of exercise on anterior-posterior knee laxity. 1986. American Journal of Sports Medicine. 14(1): 24-29.

15 Palmitier, R.A., Kai-Nan, A., Scott, S.G., and Chao, E.Y.S. 1991. Kinetic chain exercise in knee rehabilitation. Sports Medicine. 11(6):402-413.

 

[OMEGA]

Never liked upright rows
They seemed to hit my forearms and Traps only

Plus there is way to much room to cheat on them.

Better to do Shrugs super setted with DB laterals

 

[blut wump]

Even better might be power-shrugs or jump-shrugs and some overhead pressing. Strict Military press, Push Press or, even, behind-the-neck pressing. They are all good builders. Many get good benefits from snatches and cleans, too, but those lifts are more technical and not really recommended for beginners without coaching.