Speechless

[plornive]

Uh huh.........even now the Chinese and Japanese consider themselves better than us. It all depends on your perspective.

On the whole westerners are incredibly disrespectful to one another.........do little to guide their young along the right path (go to any high school and look at the behaviour to see what I mean)........

I agree with your 1st paragraph. If your 2nd paragraph is just exemplifying the first, then I also agree.

 

[Imnotdutch]

I agree with your 1st paragraph. If your 2nd paragraph is just exemplifying the first, then I also agree. [/QUOTE
Then we agree on something.........

 

[plornive]

Their cultural environment has arisen at least in part due to the physical environment. Hence my comment. Admittedly it doesnt help that their strong religious beliefs advocate strong repercussions for 'inappropriate' behaviour.

Yes. This is probably true of most cultural environments and the actions that result. That doesn't mean a cultural environment should not be judged. And to make a judgement, one needs some kind of context. Taken to the ultimate level, there is no good or bad. Judged in the context of civility and modernity, some cultural environments are better than others.

I reallize that the physical environment in question is kind of harsh. All the more reason to criticize it.

 

[Imnotdutch]

Yes. This is probably true of most cultural environments and the actions that result. That doesn't mean a cultural environment should not be judged. And to make a judgement, one needs some kind of context. Taken to the ultimate level, there is no good or bad. Judged in the context of civility and modernity, some cultural environments are better than others.

I reallize that the physical environment in question is kind of harsh. All the more reason to criticize it.

But IMO the physical environment in which a particular cultural environment is manifested must be given due consideration. a more western approach would likely fail in Pakistan.

 

[plornive]

But IMO the physical environment in which a particular cultural environment is manifested must be given due consideration. a more western approach would likely fail in Pakistan.

Ok, I guess I need to learn to express my ideas better. The physical environment is part of the cultural environment. I am assuming you don't mean the physical environment like the climate, vegetation, etc. I am not criticising the people who commit honour killings. I am criticising the entire environment that led to it. Furthermore, I also am not saying there is anything we can/should do about it (but maybe there is?).

Even so, I also think a western approach could force values down peoples' throats to some extent, good or bad. Not completely, but at least partially. Howerver, this is off-topic, and I am not saying the idea is a good one.

Let me ask you something. Do you think there is a point to defining a "good" or "bad" value? How would you define it? And if not, then why not? Would you replace this with more specific, literal evaluations?

 

[plornive]

Let me add that values exist somewhat independently of the consciousnesses that adhere to them.

 

[Imnotdutch]

Values are relative to your perspective. For instance my values woudl be very different to those of the people who carried out the mercy killings. You can only define them as good or bad within a particular cultural environment. So you can label them if you wish but I dont think that judgement can be carried over into a different environment unless it is re-evaluated.

I think labelling things as good or bad can lead to oversimplifying things. If you dont understand why something is good or bad then it is pointless........and there are grey areas where things could be put into either category (abortion, euthanasia etc.

Ok, I guess I need to learn to express my ideas better. The physical environment is part of the cultural environment. I am assuming you don't mean the physical environment like the climate, vegetation, etc. I am not criticising the people who commit honour killings. I am criticising the entire environment that led to it. Furthermore, I also am not saying there is anything we can/should do about it (but maybe there is?).

Even so, I also think a western approach could force values down peoples' throats to some extent, good or bad. Not completely, but at least partially. Howerver, this is off-topic, and I am not saying the idea is a good one.

Let me ask you something. Do you think there is a point to defining a "good" or "bad" value? How would you define it? And if not, then why not? Would you replace this with more specific, literal evaluations?

 

[plornive]

Values are relative to your perspective. For instance my values woudl be very different to those of the people who carried out the mercy killings. You can only define them as good or bad within a particular cultural environment. So you can label them if you wish but I dont think that judgement can be carried over into a different environment unless it is re-evaluated.

I think labelling things as good or bad can lead to oversimplifying things. If you dont understand why something is good or bad then it is pointless........and there are grey areas where things could be put into either category (abortion, euthanasia etc.

Actually I think we are talking about different things. I am not talking an individual's choice of values. I'm talking about the actual values of a society. I am talking about a cultural environment, as a matter of fact. I agree with your response, by the way.

 

[Imnotdutch]

It is quite likely that we are talking about different things.......I am watching England get all flustered int he rugby........I feel like shit........I'm marking the kid's books and I'm trying to think aobut this topic

Actually I think we are talking about different things. I am not talking about an individual's values. I'm talking about the values of a society. I am talking about a cultural environment, as a matter of fact. I agree with your response, by the way.

 

[plornive]

It is quite likely that we are talking about different things.......I am watching England get all flustered int he rugby........I feel like shit........I'm marking the kid's books and I'm trying to think aobut this topic

And I am procrastinating