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Sorry to be that guy, but I took my first shot and second guessing

S

Strongman950

New member
Like the title says...sorry I'm that guy but I want to ask a cycle question.

I am 6'1 200 lbs. Relatively lean but never checked my bf%.

The cycle I am planning on doing/started tonight is for 25 weeks, and is my first cycle ever.

I have 3 bottles of test cyp and one of deca. Each bottle should last me 10 weeks at 250mg/week.

What I came up with is this...

Week 1-25 - 250mg Test Cyp
Week 10-20 - 250mg Deca

This might leave me with a little extra test cyp at the end of 25 weeks.

I have liquid tamox from ar-r on the way. Not sure of the dosages to take as of yet.

I over analyze everything and after taking my first injection today i still am looking up more stuff online to worry myself.

My friends (smaller than me) had decent gains on this cycle but I'm reading online that this is a very mild dosage.

So my question...is this cycle mild enough where I won't see much gains and just shut down my natty test for a few weeks?

Is the liquid nolva as bad and outdated as some people are saying on forums? And what dosage should i take of it, or what should i take instead for pct?

Thanks for any responses, and sorry if this question has been asked before...I just enjoy making myself nervous with my first experience with gear.
 
Strongman950 said:
Like the title says...sorry I'm that guy but I want to ask a cycle question.

I am 6'1 200 lbs. Relatively lean but never checked my bf%.

The cycle I am planning on doing/started tonight is for 25 weeks, and is my first cycle ever.

I have 3 bottles of test cyp and one of deca. Each bottle should last me 10 weeks at 250mg/week.

What I came up with is this...

Week 1-25 - 250mg Test Cyp
Week 10-20 - 250mg Deca

This might leave me with a little extra test cyp at the end of 25 weeks.

I have liquid tamox from ar-r on the way. Not sure of the dosages to take as of yet.

I over analyze everything and after taking my first injection today i still am looking up more stuff online to worry myself.

My friends (smaller than me) had decent gains on this cycle but I'm reading online that this is a very mild dosage.

So my question...is this cycle mild enough where I won't see much gains and just shut down my natty test for a few weeks?

Is the liquid nolva as bad and outdated as some people are saying on forums? And what dosage should i take of it, or what should i take instead for pct?

Thanks for any responses, and sorry if this question has been asked before...I just enjoy making myself nervous with my first experience with gear.
Click to expand...

ok my friend i am going to give it to you straight .

you have no idea what you are doing....i repeat no idea.

25 weeks on a first cycle are you fuckin serious ??? what age are you anyway !

you took your first shot tonight and " you are still looking up more stuff online to worry myself " pinning steroids and then researching is about as retarded and dangerous as it gets !


So my question...is this cycle mild enough where I won't see much gains and just shut down my natty test for a few weeks?

you are shutting down your natty test for 25 FUCKING WEEKS whats mild about that ?
why do u think people cycle for 10-12 weeks ? its so they can recover with pct and time off . dont think that because you are only using 250mg that its mild...shut down is shutdown and 25 weeks of shutdown is what i call shutthefuckdown for real.

i,m not even going to ask about deca starting at week 10 ...i'm just not.

the cycle has started and you are waiting on your nolva...yeah thats clever ...and what dosage should you use ??

Listen man you need to get a grip of yourself and drop the juice untill you have some idea what the hell you are doing.

You have done zero research and it is dangerous to spoonfeed info to somebody that does not even bother to learn this shit before they start injecting into their body...

"I just enjoy making myself nervous with my first experience with gear."

^^^^^this quote says it all ,grow the fuck up ....and tell your idiot friend to educate himself too.

This shit makes my blood boil.
 
Strongman950 said:
Like the title says...sorry I'm that guy but I want to ask a cycle question.

I am 6'1 200 lbs. Relatively lean but never checked my bf%.

The cycle I am planning on doing/started tonight is for 25 weeks, and is my first cycle ever.

I have 3 bottles of test cyp and one of deca. Each bottle should last me 10 weeks at 250mg/week.

What I came up with is this...

Week 1-25 - 250mg Test Cyp
Week 10-20 - 250mg Deca

This might leave me with a little extra test cyp at the end of 25 weeks.

I have liquid tamox from ar-r on the way. Not sure of the dosages to take as of yet.

I over analyze everything and after taking my first injection today i still am looking up more stuff online to worry myself.

My friends (smaller than me) had decent gains on this cycle but I'm reading online that this is a very mild dosage.

So my question...is this cycle mild enough where I won't see much gains and just shut down my natty test for a few weeks?

Is the liquid nolva as bad and outdated as some people are saying on forums? And what dosage should i take of it, or what should i take instead for pct?

Thanks for any responses, and sorry if this question has been asked before...I just enjoy making myself nervous with my first experience with gear.
Click to expand...

Don't do another shot you're finished. Just stay natty and spend the next year...yes year researching

Sent from my VS910 4G using EliteFitness
 
C0LUMB0 said:
ok my friend i am going to give it to you straight .

you have no idea what you are doing....i repeat no idea.

25 weeks on a first cycle are you fuckin serious ??? what age are you anyway !

you took your first shot tonight and " you are still looking up more stuff online to worry myself " pinning steroids and then researching is about as retarded and dangerous as it gets !


So my question...is this cycle mild enough where I won't see much gains and just shut down my natty test for a few weeks?

you are shutting down your natty test for 25 FUCKING WEEKS whats mild about that ?
why do u think people cycle for 10-12 weeks ? its so they can recover with pct and time off . dont think that because you are only using 250mg that its mild...shut down is shutdown and 25 weeks of shutdown is what i call shutthefuckdown for real.

i,m not even going to ask about deca starting at week 10 ...i'm just not.

the cycle has started and you are waiting on your nolva...yeah thats clever ...and what dosage should you use ??

Listen man you need to get a grip of yourself and drop the juice untill you have some idea what the hell you are doing.

You have done zero research and it is dangerous to spoonfeed info to somebody that does not even bother to learn this shit before they start injecting into their body...

"I just enjoy making myself nervous with my first experience with gear."

^^^^^this quote says it all ,grow the fuck up ....and tell your idiot friend to educate himself too.

This shit makes my blood boil.
Click to expand...

Couldn't have put it much better... I'm still blown away that someone would want to cycle for half a year... that is such a risk in my eyes.
 
You have no idea how much good info is on the Internet my friend. You'll be surprised that once you think you've figured it out, you'll research more and find something new that you didn't know. Be smart and please research aas before you lose your balls forever
 
I guess I should have expected such a negative reaction...I left out some info for sake of not making my long post any longer.

I'm 24 years old, I've been working out for about 8 years...went from 150lbs. to 200lbs. And have always played with the idea of taking test.

I have done a decent amount of research on steroids in the past...read enough stuff and differing opinions to make my head spin. I used to be a member on here, as well as isteroids. But I guess you can say that I threw out what I learned and decided to do the same cycle as my 2 friends because of the simple fact that they did it already, had no side effects and gained 15-20lbs.

Got the stuff yesterday and was so damn excited to go I just couldn't hold back.

Again, I was so gung ho about this cycle cuz my two friends guinea pigged it.

I'm just asking for some actual advice, and not just...don't juice. I've been occasionally reading stuff online since I was in college, my brother has TRT (not from steroid abuse), he has clomid in case of emergency.

I guess I deserved the bashing for my post, but I'd like some actual advice please on what my cycle "should" be with what I have/need to get. I have the stuff now...I want to use it.

And as a side note...after one shot of 250mg of test cyp...if I was to not do any more injections...would I need to take anything for pct after just one shot??
 
I prob wouldn't do a pct after one 250 shot, maybe some OTC stuff. Some people might go extreme and suggest a full pct. If you did your research like you claimed, then you'd remember that a standard first timers long ester test cycle is usually 400-500mg a week for 12 weeks run with some Adex for bloat and maybe some letro on hand for estro sides. Pct is normally a serm and ai, test boosters, support supps, etc. (the stuff that helps you keep your nuts). A simple google search will reveal this info 100 times over
 
Jbranken said:
I prob wouldn't do a pct after one 250 shot, maybe some OTC stuff. Some people might go extreme and suggest a full pct. If you did your research like you claimed, then you'd remember that a standard first timers long ester test cycle is usually 400-500mg a week for 12 weeks run with some Adex for bloat and maybe some letro on hand for estro sides. Pct is normally a serm and ai, test boosters, support supps, etc. (the stuff that helps you keep your nuts). A simple google search will reveal this info 100 times over
Click to expand...


thanks jbranken...like i said. i did a fairly solid amount of research in the past but havent in maybe the past year. And felt comfortable jumping on a cycle my friends did with no negative sides.

Its incredibly stupid...i know but I felt like it was time to crap or get off the pot.
 
you know i created a thread....

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/my-friend-told-me-take-1129743.html

we are talking about this right here... this EXACT SITUATION... use your head for christs sake... and then when ur balls are dead, lh is gone to shit fsh is following, pituitary doesnt work, estro is higher than cheech and chong in their prime, and ur a total mental mess trying to figure out how, who, what where and why, ur gonna come back and say "but my friend told me"... ur friends dont know shit. why would you INJECT something in your body u obviously dont know how to handle?
just by saying u "have access to clomid just in case" proves u dont know wtf ur doin... bro welcome back, put the pin down and start reading again before u hurt yourself and ur on here asking why u have nicer tits than ur auntie. be a better friend to yourself. there is a right way and a wrong way. you are doing it wrong there are 100's of "first cycle" threads here with entire layouts of what u should and shouldnt do, all u gotta do is read em. the work is already done for u, all u gotta do is read it bro. smh i just dont get it.... :coffee:
 
you said you did enough research on steroids???

but your planning a 24 week cycle hahahaha this makes me laugh. ..

You are so lucky you made this thread to stop you from fucking yourself up

Research Research Research my friend

Sent from my GT-I9300 using EliteFitness
 
Okay, if you were to continue: (because i hate when people get all mad and angry on here............................)lol

take 500mg of test for 10-12 weeks
wait 2 weeks after your last shot to start PCT
**don't take deca -- bad on a first cycle, terribly hard to recover from
aromasin 12.5 EOD for bloat on cycle, have letro on hand in case gyno appears
when you are waiting those two weeks, it is adviseable to take hcg 1000IU a week (2 times in the week)
then start your pct:
clomid 25mg 1-4 ag-guys.com
DAA 3g
Unleashed/post cycle combo -- ntbm
formastanzol or low dose Aromasin 6.25 EOD
optional: ostarine -- uniquemicals.com

scrap the nolva, see if you can return it and swap for clomid
 
LiftLearnLove said:
you said you did enough research on steroids???

but your planning a 24 week cycle hahahaha this makes me laugh. ..

You are so lucky you made this thread to stop you from fucking yourself up

Research Research Research my friend

Sent from my GT-I9300 using EliteFitness
Click to expand...


i said i did quite a bit of research in the past. My friends did a mild, but lengthy cycle last year and they had no side effects and easy coming off except for a few days of feeling depressed. So I figured i would get in on it this time.

I understand why everyone is getting on me. I get it, theres plenty of info on the net so why would i listen to my "friends"?

I guess because the comfort of doing a cycle that someone i PERSONALLY know has already done before is probably the biggest reason. I know the probability of them knowing fuck all about roids is pretty high. But talking personally to someone you know and them saying...i did this, and i got this...gives you a sense of comfort with what you are about to take. I mean not for nothing, this whole community is based on experience being passed from one user to another, correct?

I am not trying to justify myself jumping into a cycle, or saying its a better idea to listen to the "Bro's" in the gym at all...im just trying to put into words why myself and many others would listen to their friends instead of forums when getting into their first cycle. Cant you at least understand it a little bit? It is the internet after all, where anybody can say anything, right?

I hope nobody takes this post the wrong way...im just trying to express WHY i was so quick to stick a needle in me.
 
Strongman950 said:
i said i did quite a bit of research in the past. My friends did a mild, but lengthy cycle last year and they had no side effects and easy coming off except for a few days of feeling depressed. So I figured i would get in on it this time.

I understand why everyone is getting on me. I get it, theres plenty of info on the net so why would i listen to my "friends"?

I guess because the comfort of doing a cycle that someone i PERSONALLY know has already done before is probably the biggest reason. I know the probability of them knowing fuck all about roids is pretty high. But talking personally to someone you know and them saying...i did this, and i got this...gives you a sense of comfort with what you are about to take. I mean not for nothing, this whole community is based on experience being passed from one user to another, correct?

I am not trying to justify myself jumping into a cycle, or saying its a better idea to listen to the "Bro's" in the gym at all...im just trying to put into words why myself and many others would listen to their friends instead of forums when getting into their first cycle. Cant you at least understand it a little bit? It is the internet after all, where anybody can say anything, right?

I hope nobody takes this post the wrong way...im just trying to express WHY i was so quick to stick a needle in me.
Click to expand...


i get it... so listen, stop pinning now and lay out what you want to do and u can do it the right way having a better understanding of what your doing, why, and what to expect. thats the right thing to do...
or you can do the bone head thing and keep going and say ill piece it together as i go... up to u bro.
 
Reasons like OP is why its taken me 8 months of researching before my first pin, i'm just happy asoon as i read 25wk's, i stopped and thought "dafuq is this guy thinking..".
 
ballslee said:
Okay, if you were to continue: (because i hate when people get all mad and angry on here............................)lol

take 500mg of test for 10-12 weeks
wait 2 weeks after your last shot to start PCT
**don't take deca -- bad on a first cycle, terribly hard to recover from
aromasin 12.5 EOD for bloat on cycle, have letro on hand in case gyno appears
when you are waiting those two weeks, it is adviseable to take hcg 1000IU a week (2 times in the week)
then start your pct:
clomid 25mg 1-4 ag-guys.com
DAA 3g
Unleashed/post cycle combo -- ntbm
formastanzol or low dose Aromasin 6.25 EOD
optional: ostarine -- uniquemicals.com

scrap the nolva, see if you can return it and swap for clomid
Click to expand...

thank you for the input lee...its really appreciated. I have a few more questions tho.

-I know one person weighed in on this already, but id like more opinions. If i was to stop injections cold turkey right now after just one of 250mg yesterday, do i need to take anything else to get everything running smooth again?

-why scrap the nolva? is it personal preference? i read some places online that say use nolva over clomid and vice versa.
 
noodles1010 said:
i get it... so listen, stop pinning now and lay out what you want to do and u can do it the right way having a better understanding of what your doing, why, and what to expect. thats the right thing to do...
or you can do the bone head thing and keep going and say ill piece it together as i go... up to u bro.
Click to expand...


thanks for the input. Like i said in a previous post...i have prescription clomid easily available, even tho it is not mine. Should i take any of that after just one injection to be safe?

I had minor gyno as a child that i had removed surgically about 3 years ago. So i might be sensitive, even tho it was a very little amount.
 
Least you have relised you wernt up to it and came on here for help. Good on you bro.
I am currently on my second week of a test cycle (first cycle) and i too had second thought after my first pin. Maby u will relax and enjoy it more if ya just do a 12 week test cycle with a good pct?.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using EliteFitness
 
Strongman950 said:
thanks for the input. Like i said in a previous post...i have prescription clomid easily available, even tho it is not mine. Should i take any of that after just one injection to be safe?

I had minor gyno as a child that i had removed surgically about 3 years ago. So i might be sensitive, even tho it was a very little amount.
Click to expand...

Just stop, after just one injection no PCT is needed, just let your body recover.
 
Strongman950 said:
thanks for the input. Like i said in a previous post...i have prescription clomid easily available, even tho it is not mine. Should i take any of that after just one injection to be safe?

I had minor gyno as a child that i had removed surgically about 3 years ago. So i might be sensitive, even tho it was a very little amount.
Click to expand...

Nah. Like my man radar said. Not necessary after 1 pin. Just stop everything and let's start over here.

List all ur stats, include what u wanna achieve as far as goals, and the fact that u had Gyno removed surgically I'd say is def a need to know lol. So start over now
 
ok, i have to run out for a few hours now. Ill be back on later tonight and post all my stats from top to bottom.

thanks again for all the help guys. It means alot.
 
noodles1010 said:
Nah. Like my man radar said. Not necessary after 1 pin. Just stop everything and let's start over here.

List all ur stats, include what u wanna achieve as far as goals, and the fact that u had Gyno removed surgically I'd say is def a need to know lol. So start over now
Click to expand...

Sorry, got home late last night from a local boxing match and was too tired to hop back on here.

My stats/goals are as follows:

6'1 200lbs.
not sure my bodyfat % but i was always a skinny kid...never gained much fat and always ate reasonably healthy, even when i would gorge myself to try to gain weight at times.

Looking back at my log for my main lifts, my best #'s are

Bench - 280lbs. x 1
Deadlift - 405lbs. x 3 (havent gone for a true 1RM in a while)
Military - 175lbs. x 1
Squat - 345lbs. x 2

My goals: Id like to increase my strength overall...ive been doing mostly strength training the past 2-3 years. And AS OF NOW, would like to put on around 25lbs. of muscle eventually...i know it wont come with just one cycle. Would just like to fill out a little more. I feel i am in pretty good shape and am always complimented by friends and co-workers on my commitment to training and my physical condition, but I want to fill out a little more. Being 6'1 and weighing 150lbs. back in highschool 6 years ago it hasnt been easy to gain weight, but ive been diligent. Pretty much all of my lifts have barely improved over the past 4 or 5 years.

For me, roids have always been a matter of "when", not "if" i would take them. Ever since i was a kid and realized the big musclebound guys on tv were on the sauce, i wanted to do it too when i was old enough. I did some research in the past, searching forums and looking up cycles and different types, etc. But havent done any research in about a year. Some of the stuff ive seen on forums seemed a little intimidating with all the different things guys were throwing in for PCT and this and that. There was never a simple blueprint on how to acquire everything i would need and go through with it. So two of my friends did a cycle last year...it consisted of:

Week 1-20: Deca (300mg/wk)
Week 11-20: Test Cyp (250mg/wk)
PCT: Nolvadex (not sure of the particulars they took but started from week before the last shot)

it seemed off to me at the time to run Deca for the whole cycle and Test for only the last half.

One friend had no side effects besides a little acne, and the other only had a few days of minor depression while coming off.

This cycle that i planned on taking (started) was going to be:

Week 1-25: Test Cyp (250mg/wk)
Week 11-20: Deca (300mg/wk)
PCT was going to be the same as their previous cycle.

I felt comfortable taking stuff that my friends had already taken and had little to no side effects. It was the blueprint i wanted..."i took this, did this and got this".

I was also told that you only start REALLY noticing the gains around week 7 or so (dont quote me), and that cutting off at 10-12 weeks will be when you are at your peak.

So there you have it...it seemed pretty plain and dry what i needed to do and thats why i took the plunge.

As far as my childhood gyno...it was very minor, just around the areola, a slight puffiness i got around puberty and never went away. Had surgery on it twice because the first doctor, while highly recommended, was not experienced with gyno surgery. So it ended up costing me a whopping $12,000 for the two surgeries combined. But i would do it all over again if i had to.

You wanted all my stats, and info. You got it! lol
 
Strongman950 said:
Sorry, got home late last night from a local boxing match and was too tired to hop back on here.

My stats/goals are as follows:

6'1 200lbs.
not sure my bodyfat % but i was always a skinny kid...never gained much fat and always ate reasonably healthy, even when i would gorge myself to try to gain weight at times.

Looking back at my log for my main lifts, my best #'s are

Bench - 280lbs. x 1
Deadlift - 405lbs. x 3 (havent gone for a true 1RM in a while)
Military - 175lbs. x 1
Squat - 345lbs. x 2

My goals: Id like to increase my strength overall...ive been doing mostly strength training the past 2-3 years. And AS OF NOW, would like to put on around 25lbs. of muscle eventually...i know it wont come with just one cycle. Would just like to fill out a little more. I feel i am in pretty good shape and am always complimented by friends and co-workers on my commitment to training and my physical condition, but I want to fill out a little more. Being 6'1 and weighing 150lbs. back in highschool 6 years ago it hasnt been easy to gain weight, but ive been diligent. Pretty much all of my lifts have barely improved over the past 4 or 5 years.

For me, roids have always been a matter of "when", not "if" i would take them. Ever since i was a kid and realized the big musclebound guys on tv were on the sauce, i wanted to do it too when i was old enough. I did some research in the past, searching forums and looking up cycles and different types, etc. But havent done any research in about a year. Some of the stuff ive seen on forums seemed a little intimidating with all the different things guys were throwing in for PCT and this and that. There was never a simple blueprint on how to acquire everything i would need and go through with it. So two of my friends did a cycle last year...it consisted of:

Week 1-20: Deca (300mg/wk)
Week 11-20: Test Cyp (250mg/wk)
PCT: Nolvadex (not sure of the particulars they took but started from week before the last shot)

it seemed off to me at the time to run Deca for the whole cycle and Test for only the last half.

One friend had no side effects besides a little acne, and the other only had a few days of minor depression while coming off.

This cycle that i planned on taking (started) was going to be:

Week 1-25: Test Cyp (250mg/wk)
Week 11-20: Deca (300mg/wk)
PCT was going to be the same as their previous cycle.

I felt comfortable taking stuff that my friends had already taken and had little to no side effects. It was the blueprint i wanted..."i took this, did this and got this".

I was also told that you only start REALLY noticing the gains around week 7 or so (dont quote me), and that cutting off at 10-12 weeks will be when you are at your peak.

So there you have it...it seemed pretty plain and dry what i needed to do and thats why i took the plunge.

As far as my childhood gyno...it was very minor, just around the areola, a slight puffiness i got around puberty and never went away. Had surgery on it twice because the first doctor, while highly recommended, was not experienced with gyno surgery. So it ended up costing me a whopping $12,000 for the two surgeries combined. But i would do it all over again if i had to.

You wanted all my stats, and info. You got it! lol
Click to expand...

How do you know your friends were ok after the cycle? Did they get full blood work panel done? You cant just go by acne and mood change to judge whether or not everything is fine after a cycle. And yes, its more than just a little off to run a 20 week cycle with deca solo for the first 10 weeks, ive actually never heard of something that bad.
 
-SD- said:
How do you know your friends were ok after the cycle? Did they get full blood work panel done? You cant just go by acne and mood change to judge whether or not everything is fine after a cycle. And yes, its more than just a little off to run a 20 week cycle with deca solo for the first 10 weeks, ive actually never heard of something that bad.
Click to expand...

No, they didnt get blood work done...when i say they were ok, i meant their balls came back to full speed, no signs of gyno, balding, etc.

i know, the damage can be more than skin deep.
 
Strongman950 said:
*bump* for noodles and columbo
Click to expand...

Ok read all your stats.
First thing that sticks out and a lot of guys make the same mistake is taking nolvadex with deca. Nolvadex upregulates prolactin. Nolvadex and 19nors dont mix. You would have to run adex or aromasin as well as caber or prami with 19nors. Steve can teach you a lot about 19nors. That's who I learned from. Read his threads in regards to deca and tren.
For a first cycle, you want to do a test only cycle no more than 10-12 weeks and see how your body takes or reacts to the new hormones. Having Gyno previously your estrogen, prolactin, control would be a big focal point. You COULD gain a shit load if the diet and training is right and of course the determination. If you want a big chest, than you work chest every fuckin day. If you want big arms than u bang arms every fuckin day. U want strength that u push the limits every fuckin day. U make it your perfect obsession and run with it. Fuck what people say u should would or could do. You just do it and over time u will get it. Determination and commitment. That's all. The test will take you to the next level. Make sure you have naturally plateaued. That's my advice. If u haven't plateaued than your body can and is still growing naturally. I only run a cycle when I'm at a brick wall and not moving and I'm trying my hardest. Then and only then will I jump on. To me it's a waste to do otherwise then your just speeding up the process (taking or creating a shortcut) and not what it should be used for IMO. It's a shortcut for all of us in one way or another, I try to justify it tho. Some don't.
Diet... My weak point... I suck at diet. Probably the main reason I'm not going where I want to, so if your good with diet then it will happen that much faster. Eating clean helps, i know this but balanced diet is much more effective. It's not supposed to taste good. It's just fuel so u can do what u gotta do in the gym. My rule of thumb is, if it tastes good it's not good for u. Plain n simple. If your interested in satisfying your taste buds, this might not be for u lol.
Third... Ask questions... I keep saying it here, the stupid questions are the ones u don't ask. Ask questions. Know all u can know. U can never ever know too much about anything. Altho some people on here like my man Dylan have yelled at me repetitively that I over think too much lol. No such thing!!! Know all u can. Read, research, read, and research. If u don't know what it means, google that shit. Google is an amazing tool. Use it.
So u wanna cycle? Look at your test, then research it and ask questions. Kay out a possible cycle and let us critique it but for gods sake man KNOW WHAT YOU'RE INJECTING. This shit will mess u up if u don't know what you're doing or what sides to be aware of or keeping a eye open for.
Hope this helps give some insight and direction.
 
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