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Should I Do It?

liftr486

liftr486

New member
I'm 21 and have low test/sperm levels. I have done a few messed up cycles early on and i think i might have fucked myself up. The doc put me on clomid for like 6 months to try and get my levels up. They went up to 600 and then once i stopped it, it dropped down to around 200. they decided to put me on a higher dosage and longer time and i just got my bloods back and they are in the 600s again. im sure my levels will drop once i stop the clomid (i stopped today). im getting another blood test in a month to see where i am.

i'm thinking that if my levels go down again i wanna jump on hrt because i dont think its ever gonna get better and i feel like shit when my levels are anything below 500.

what are your thoughts on this? what should i do?


thanks to everyone!
 
Yikes.....when you came off of the clomid the first time and your levels dropped to around 200, did your doctor suggest that if another go round of clomid doesn't help that he'd be willing to put you on hrt? Sounds like you have a lot to consider, especially since you're still so young......
 
he actually put me on androgel but before i filled the script we decided to try the clomid one more try. i think i can get him to come around to let me do an injectable test instead.
 
ouch, id go get a 2nd opinion hrt before the age of 40 is kinda scary, really scary before the age of 25.

maybe try 10 mgs of nolvadex with the clomid or perhaps after the clomid, id rather experiment than start hrt. Hrt should be after all alternatives are exhausted.

also try taking aventa sativa from beyond a century.com(google for exact link)

it can work great at raising test for some people, zinc and arginine could at least potentially help the sperm count.

GL!
 
ive tried clomid for two 6 month cycles and whenever i stop my levels drop. i just stopped the clomid so i have to wait a little while to see the drop but im sure its gonna come. im just sick of the ups and downs in between clomid cycles. plus the sides of clomid sucks
 
my t levels came back around 289 which was really low for a healthy, active and fit guy in his mid twenties. Some people just need it bro, reguardless of past cycle history.
 
so i guess i have no choice but to go on hrt. even with clomid the most i can get my test level is 600 which is where it should be normally.

should i go through a doc or jus do my own w/ some test e?
 
should i go through a doc or jus do my own w/ some test e?



Im 39 and on test for life. My doc said my levels were really low. But Im in canada and there is still alot of reservations about TRT. But I did it myself at my expence and it is the best health choice I have made in my life. So if you are low 200's your going to feel great at a 250mg/week test dose. I was in the low 100's and am taking 250mg/weekall year round and Illl cycle a couple times a yeaar for size gains by rising my test and including another compound. Youll feel great and in your20's you should... good luck man.....
 
Shit, id rather take test than clomid... legit test for the rest of your life? Why not? Make sure you have a steady health insurance though.

And like 38 said, you should feel good at that age. Just make sure there isnt something else contributing to it, depression, tumor, etc....
 
Try to get your natural test levels back up, don't touch steroids for at least 3-5 years.
 
mr x- what other method would u use to get my own levels back up?

i also think that i had ow levels to begin with when i was younger but they couldnt do ne thing because it was still considered "low normal range".
 
sorry to hear that man, looks like youve got some deciding to do. If it were me id try to get the doc to write you a script for test because that way you'll have your name on it you know? and if your going to be on test the rest of your life you dont want johnny law hassling you about something you need to live on.

have you guys tried HCG? Aromasin? what was your free testosterone, estrogen, and cortisol levels? alot of those things can affect your levels. But the again, you said clomid jumped you up to 600 but after you stopped it dropped back down so i doubt estrogen or cortisol is the problem.

no way would i take 3 -5 years off. i ran a cycle awhile ago and my source got popped so i had no way of getting pct. just tribulus with didnt do shit. i felt like absolute hell for 6 months. imagine that for 3-5 yrs? i would just go hrt if you cant get things going again.
 
trowsersnake98 said:
sorry to hear that man, looks like youve got some deciding to do. If it were me id try to get the doc to write you a script for test because that way you'll have your name on it you know? and if your going to be on test the rest of your life you dont want johnny law hassling you about something you need to live on.

have you guys tried HCG? Aromasin? what was your free testosterone, estrogen, and cortisol levels? alot of those things can affect your levels. But the again, you said clomid jumped you up to 600 but after you stopped it dropped back down so i doubt estrogen or cortisol is the problem.

no way would i take 3 -5 years off. i ran a cycle awhile ago and my source got popped so i had no way of getting pct. just tribulus with didnt do shit. i felt like absolute hell for 6 months. imagine that for 3-5 yrs? i would just go hrt if you cant get things going again.
Click to expand...


yea ive tried hcg aromasin aifm etc but nothing permanately helps me...its only temporary. before i went back on the clomid my levels were so low and i was extremely depressed (didnt wanna workout, get outta bed) i cant imagin feeling that way again once i come off the clomid.
 
the last serious one was like 3yrs ago. then last year i was so desperate i went on for like a month and i felt great but my doc said to try clomid again.
 
liftr486 said:
the last serious one was like 3yrs ago. then last year i was so desperate i went on for like a month and i felt great but my doc said to try clomid again.
Click to expand...

Not trying to joke, but when you took the three year break did you ever wake up with morning wood?

I use to compete when I was a teenager so I did gear young in life also. when I was 21 I decide to take a break from the sport, but I quite cold turkey with no PCT. I did not have morning wood and it took me forever to get excited even if I was very attracted to the woman. But after about a year and half of being off gear, morning wood and all normal function came back. I used supplements like zinc, natural test booster, creatine.
 
jcmule said:
Not trying to joke, but when you took the three year break did you ever wake up with morning wood?

I use to compete when I was a teenager so I did gear young in life also. when I was 21 I decide to take a break from the sport, but I quite cold turkey with no PCT. I did not have morning wood and it took me forever to get excited even if I was very attracted to the woman. But after about a year and half of being off gear, morning wood and all normal function came back. I used supplements like zinc, natural test booster, creatine.
Click to expand...


i have not gotten morning wood in years. i dont have a problem functioning sexually because ive been taking clomid....once i stop it my sex drive and everything goes down dramatically.
 
liftr486 said:
i have not gotten morning wood in years. i dont have a problem functioning sexually because ive been taking clomid....once i stop it my sex drive and everything goes down dramatically.
Click to expand...

How were you before your first cycle? It almost sounds like you might of had a low test count before you ever did any gear. Normally after a year or two of being off normal functions return. I know some 20 year old people who have normal low test counts and they live on the test patch.

I feel for you bro, for that year and half before I returned to normal function I lived on sexual performance enhancers. There is nothing worst than explaning to a girl its not her.
 
jcmule said:
How were you before your first cycle? It almost sounds like you might of had a low test count before you ever did any gear. Normally after a year or two of being off normal functions return. I know some 20 year old people who have normal low test counts and they live on the test patch.

I feel for you bro, for that year and half before I returned to normal function I lived on sexual performance enhancers. There is nothing worst than explaning to a girl its not her.
Click to expand...


i think my levels peaked when i was like 13/14. i was horny as anything then and ever since then its was pretty bad. my original levels were low but they were considered low-normal so they didnt want to help me.
 
this only lowered it more. From my experience, after three years the outside source test is out of your system. Since you were low to start with, its not a bad idea to let the doctor prescribe you test
 
jcmule said:
this only lowered it more. From my experience, after three years the outside source test is out of your system. Since you were low to start with, its not a bad idea to let the doctor prescribe you test
Click to expand...


i think i mght have to at this point...i cant stand being on clomid everyday. im like a mess. im thinking of getting a script for cyp from my doc and bumping up the dose for a few weeks every couple of months.
 
liftr486 said:
i think i mght have to at this point...i cant stand being on clomid everyday. im like a mess. im thinking of getting a script for cyp from my doc and bumping up the dose for a few weeks every couple of months.
Click to expand...

then you can keep growing at the same time.
 
advanced-stealth said:
I would get a 2nd opinion.
Click to expand...


got a second opinion. one doc says my test levels prob won't stay up after the clomid and wanted to put me on androgel and the other doc said he was happy that my levels were in the low 200s after clomid.
 
liftr486 said:
got a second opinion. one doc says my test levels prob won't stay up after the clomid and wanted to put me on androgel and the other doc said he was happy that my levels were in the low 200s after clomid.
Click to expand...

What was their take on you being reproductive in a low 200 level?
 
jcmule said:
What was their take on you being reproductive in a low 200 level?
Click to expand...

the one doc had me freeze sperm so that if he put me on hrt i would be able to have kids. my sperm levels are low to begin with b/c i have some sort of y-chromosome deficiency.
 
liftr486 said:
the one doc had me freeze sperm so that if he put me on hrt i would be able to have kids. my sperm levels are low to begin with b/c i have some sort of y-chromosome deficiency.
Click to expand...


I feel like we are in a bad poker situtation here with no outs. Its looks like packing in the test is the only way. I am not a big fan of the cream, tell the doc to shove that sh*t up his A$$. I have seen the patch work well on friends of mine. I can't remember the name off the top of my head. Here is a question, do you ever plan on doing another cycle again? Honestly?
 
jcmule said:
I feel like we are in a bad poker situtation here with no outs. Its looks like packing in the test is the only way. I am not a big fan of the cream, tell the doc to shove that sh*t up his A$$. I have seen the patch work well on friends of mine. I can't remember the name off the top of my head. Here is a question, do you ever plan on doing another cycle again? Honestly?
Click to expand...


if im gonna be getting test from the doc id rather get injectables than the patch or gel and if i go on hrt theres no reason in my mind not to do cycles and then after drop down back to my normal hrt maintenance dose
 
Hey Liftr,

Did you get any other bloodwork done apart from tests levels?

Your LH levels will give good info about where the problem is:
If LH is normal-high (while off clomid and test levels 200s) then you have primary hypogonadism ie your balls aren't working
If LH levels are low (while off the clomid) then you have secondary hypogondism. This can be caused by relatively high estrogen giving the negative feedback to your test production, and can be fixed with AIs. If not caused estrogen, the diagnosis is more difficult, and HRT may be the option.

Really, since your dealing with something that is going to affect the rest of your life, you want a good endo who will take full panel of blood tests and take action.

Test, free test, LH, FSH, estrogen, prolactin especially
 
pursuit said:
Hey Liftr,

Did you get any other bloodwork done apart from tests levels?

Your LH levels will give good info about where the problem is:
If LH is normal-high (while off clomid and test levels 200s) then you have primary hypogonadism ie your balls aren't working
If LH levels are low (while off the clomid) then you have secondary hypogondism. This can be caused by relatively high estrogen giving the negative feedback to your test production, and can be fixed with AIs. If not caused estrogen, the diagnosis is more difficult, and HRT may be the option.

Really, since your dealing with something that is going to affect the rest of your life, you want a good endo who will take full panel of blood tests and take action.

Test, free test, LH, FSH, estrogen, prolactin especially
Click to expand...

the doc did run that full battery of tests. from what i remember all my levels (including LH, FSH, and estrogen) were all good/normal and thats y the doc was happy with my 200 level.
 
for the experenced bros on here.. would a big cycle followed by a really good PCT be of any help to liftr486??
 
xrsist said:
for the experenced bros on here.. would a big cycle followed by a really good PCT be of any help to liftr486??
Click to expand...


i think the next time i go on it will be permanately because i dont think i could ever recover to any degree.
 
liftr486 said:
the doc did run that full battery of tests. from what i remember all my levels (including LH, FSH, and estrogen) were all good/normal and thats y the doc was happy with my 200 level.
Click to expand...

Do you know the actual levels? Your doc saying the other levels were good/normal is quite subjective. If your estrogen levels were even in the middle of the normal range, then (as your test levels are way below range) your estrogen:testosterone ratio is too high and will benefit from an AI.
Even someone with normal levels all round will get a significant increase in testosterone from taking an AI at a reasonable dose, like 200% while cutting estrogen levels by just a third (don't have a study on hand). Of course you don't want to cut estrogen levels too much because that may have as much effect on your sex drive as low test.

Bear it mind that taking an AI is an option long term while taking clomid is not really.
 
liftr486 said:
I'm 21 and have low test/sperm levels. I have done a few messed up cycles early on and i think i might have fucked myself up. The doc put me on clomid for like 6 months to try and get my levels up. They went up to 600 and then once i stopped it, it dropped down to around 200. they decided to put me on a higher dosage and longer time and i just got my bloods back and they are in the 600s again. im sure my levels will drop once i stop the clomid (i stopped today). im getting another blood test in a month to see where i am.

i'm thinking that if my levels go down again i wanna jump on hrt because i dont think its ever gonna get better and i feel like shit when my levels are anything below 500.

what are your thoughts on this? what should i do?


thanks to everyone!
Click to expand...
you should try this

http://prweb.com/releases/2007/2/prweb504676.htm

you can get it here.http://www.primordialperformance.com/
 
pursuit said:
Do you know the actual levels? Your doc saying the other levels were good/normal is quite subjective. If your estrogen levels were even in the middle of the normal range, then (as your test levels are way below range) your estrogen:testosterone ratio is too high and will benefit from an AI.
Even someone with normal levels all round will get a significant increase in testosterone from taking an AI at a reasonable dose, like 200% while cutting estrogen levels by just a third (don't have a study on hand). Of course you don't want to cut estrogen levels too much because that may have as much effect on your sex drive as low test.

Bear it mind that taking an AI is an option long term while taking clomid is not really.
Click to expand...

im slowly lowering my clomid dosage this week and next and after next week ill be off totally. the only blood results i have in my hands are while i was taking the clomid so i will have to wait till next month to see exactly where all my levels are.

i do remember tho, asking my doc if arimidex or something similiar would help me and he said i have no need to reduce estrogen so i was assuming it was where it was supposed to be. i guess i jus gotta wait and see.
 
Mr.X said:
Try to get your natural test levels back up, don't touch steroids for at least 3-5 years.
Click to expand...

I have to agree, though I'd make it even longer. It's a sin for someone so young to have to be on HRT.

I hate to do any "finger pointing" but this is one of those regretable reprecussions of doing cycles in your teens when your HPTA is still developing. A big price to pay.

I know it sucks but I'd suggest trying to get your levels back naturally. In all honesty, it might take up to 6 months. Maybe longer -- but at least you can live a normal life afterward. Of course, I'd recommend two of the supps listed below, as well as Anthony's MyogenX formula. Do not use tribulus.

I'm surprised the doc gave you clomid and androgel. Anyone who knows me here knows that I think Clomid is a horrible f*cking drug. And to put a young man on Androgel without the intention of staying on is flat out ignorance. That's like putting someone on insulin and then taking them off.

If you go on HRT now, expect to have lower ejaculate and very small testicles for the rest of your life. Sorry -- not trying to scare or disuade you. It's just the way it is.
 
I was about 16 when I did my first cycle.

I understand where ur coming from nelson but have u ever been shut down for three years? I felt like shit. I think if my levels were gonna come back naturally they wouldve during that time....i took nothing at all for three years. and the doc didn't have any intention of taking me off androgel. it was going to b permanate but I never started it.
 
these were my bloods from last week (i was on 100mg clomid ed):

FSH 17.5 (1.4-18.1)
LH 6.63 (1.50-9.30)
Estradiol 44 (less than 52)
Test 673 (241-827)
 
Those levels are perfect. Your LH, estradiol and testosterone levels are all mid-high range and in good proportion to each other.

Of course (as you know) the problem is that you needed to take 100mg of clomid for a long period to achieve these levels. Expected levels for someone who is taking clomid 100mg would be like:
FSH 17.5 (1.4-18.1)
LH 18 (1.50-9.30)
Estradiol 55 (less than 52)
Test 1000 (241-827)

IMO, the problem boils down to the fact you are not producing enough LH to stimulate test production (secondary hypogonadism). I bet that when you come off the clomid, your LH levels go down to the bottom of the range, and test and estrogen will come down with it. It would be interesting to see test results for this.

To rule out other hormonal causes for your low LH levels, also look at prolactin levels, (hyperprolactemia) as they can cause negative feedback to LH levels.

(On a side note - LH levels vary alot throughout the day, even more than test levels so one reading may not be ideal.)

Another question to ask is whether you have ever produced normal test levels (while not on clomid). If you have low facial/body hair, weak jawline, or a light voice, this might suggest that your test levels weré also low while you were developing during puberty.
 
I forgot to mention that my prolactin levels were also good (a little low actually) I jus don't have the numbers in front of me.

now that u mention it I actually do have characteristics of someone w low test. I can go w/o shaving for a week and have very little facial hair.

I am going to do another blood test mid april to see where i am. this weeks my last week of clomid ( i reduced the dosage from 100-50-25ed)
 
Last edited:
just an update:

my doc called this am with my new blood results...its been about a month since im off the clomid.

my test levels were at 673 last month and have dropped to 510. Did not get a chance to speak with him re: FH/LH etc.
 
Re: Should I Do It?---UPDATE

new blood test....

it's been about 3 months off clomid:

Testosterone--177

FSH--5.7 (1.4-18.1)

LH--1.59 (1.50-9.30)

Estradiol--18 (<52)

I feel like total shit.

What do you guys think?
 
Last edited:
One thing is for sure, the Clomid didn't help (your e is fine) and may have supressed you for more time. If there is no logical reason why your levels are so low, such as emotional trauma, I'd use every supplement under the sun -- UNLEASHED, MyogenX, Dermacrine, POST-CYCLE. (Actually those are the only ones that would do anything). Maybe because of your youth, it'll make a difference and you can turn this around. But if it turns out you need HR T, then just go on. Hope it works out for you bro.
 
Nelson Montana said:
One thing is for sure, the Clomid didn't help (your e is fine) and may have supressed you for more time. If there is no logical reason why your levels are so low, such as emotional trauma, I'd use every supplement under the sun -- UNLEASHED, MyogenX, Dermacrine, POST-CYCLE. (Actually those are the only ones that would do anything). Maybe because of your youth, it'll make a difference and you can turn this around. But if it turns out you need HR T, then just go on. Hope it works out for you bro.
Click to expand...


so ur saying that the only thing that will help me are the supplements that you recommended?
 
What did the doctor suggest after this last round of bloodwork?

So you've ruled out C lomid... H RT (test) is still an option... you might want to give those supplements a try for a month or two... what have you got to lose? I'm in a similar situation as you... I ran Sustain for 2 months and Myogenx for 1 month... not sure how much they've helped with my numbers (got bloodwork this morning), but I know I didn't feel as crappy as I have in the past. If nothing else, they can help you out of that rut of feeling lousy. If in a couple months you're still not feeling any better or more recovered, then just do the H RT. At least then you'll know you gave everything else a fair shake.
 
liftr486 said:
so ur saying that the only thing that will help me are the supplements that you recommended?
Click to expand...

I'm saying they're the only supplements that are effective is actually raising testosterone. Weather they help or not is hard to say because they work within your own system and you may not be producing enough on your own to make a difference. In other words, even if your LH and free T double, it may still be too low. UNLEASHED and MyogenX are definetely worth a try for a couple of months. See how you feel. If improvement is jusy slight, talk to your doc about HR T. You may still want to take the supps along with the HR T. That's what a lot of older guys do.
 
the last time i went on the clomid i got up to 673 and that was at 25mg/day for three months. im wondering if i used it for a longer period if that would help jumpstart my system? i rather not go with otc supplements that i am not really familiar with.
 
Nelson Montana said:
I have to agree, though I'd make it even longer. It's a sin for someone so young to have to be on HRT.

I hate to do any "finger pointing" but this is one of those regretable reprecussions of doing cycles in your teens when your hpta - hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis - is still developing. A big price to pay.

I know it sucks but I'd suggest trying to get your levels back naturally. In all honesty, it might take up to 6 months. Maybe longer -- but at least you can live a normal life afterward. Of course, I'd recommend two of the supps listed below, as well as Anthony's MyogenX formula. Do not use tribulus.

I'm surprised the doc gave you clomid and androgel. Anyone who knows me here knows that I think Clomid is a horrible f*cking drug. And to put a young man on Androgel without the intention of staying on is flat out ignorance. That's like putting someone on insulin and then taking them off.

If you go on HRT now, expect to have lower ejaculate and very small testicles for the rest of your life. Sorry -- not trying to scare or disuade you. It's just the way it is.
Click to expand...

i thought hcg would be able to take care of the decreased testicle size during hrt?
 
try another doctor man, i had a friend which went to the doctor with low test in his 30s and his docotr put him on gh vit E and other stuff.....but i dont think your doctor would put u on gh at ur 20s anyway...
 
liftr486 said:
he actually put me on androgel but before i filled the script we decided to try the clomid one more try. i think i can get him to come around to let me do an injectable test instead.
Click to expand...

A lot cheaper.....
 
i did get a script for test cyp and filled it, but am hesitant to start. i dont want to go this route if theres ne possibility that i could recover? last time i did about 3-4 months of clomid and im thinking maybe i should try a 6 month run with some aifm and see what happens then? i just dont know about the safety of clomid for such long periods.
 
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