roids and genetics

[jigga6]

could being on steroids alter your genetics/ DNA in relation to passing it on to later generations. for example my buddys father was telling me that he used to be average when it came to his build then did a couple cycles when he was about our age 21-23, he blew up and has stayed in decent shape since. So growing up with my friend i noticed he went through a real hard time with acne, but whenever he would hit the gym he would grow faster than everyone else. its nuts how much muscle this kid can put on in a short amount of time if he tries. so my question is if someone were to juice, train hard and get big does that mean it will make it easier for there kid to get big if he gets into working out?

 

[CrazyK]

No, not at all. You can't alter you DNA through use of steroids. lol, my kid is never going to naturally produce tren, deca, adrol, or any of that. He's also not going to hit puberty producing 500mg/test a week.

 

[Clean]

I think so, but it all depends. I have seen families where the father and sons are all pretty built, the father is strong, one son is a body builder, the other is just solid and ripped but wants to have a different look. It obviously runs in the family.

Now, I don't know that if you juice and stay in great shape will mean the same as a dad who is naturally built having kids that are the same way. I think it is possible.

I see alot of fat parents with the same looking kids. I think if you can change your body composition and keep it that way for an extended period of time, whether it be naturally or from the use of steroids, then it will have an affect on the kids.

 

[DJ_UFO]

YES, you can. You can alter genetics generation after generation. Examples, simple. This is something old. When you see a fat woman in her 50's with her hot daughter in her 20's, there's no doubt that girl will be the same as her mom in their 50's. Why? She is genetically ready to get fat easier than other girls. The same at the inverse. When you have an athletic dad and an athletic mom, their sons will be genetically ready to be fit and athletic.

We have other factors like nutrition and excercise. But that's just a complement to genetics. In fact, people that inherit slow metabolism from slow metabolism parents (due to a long chain of bad nutrition habits in their ancestors) have to make double efforts to be fit in these days.

 

[Neo22]

^^^^^

 

[Whiskey]

DJUFO makes a dam good point

Whiskey

 

[Tux]

However, DJUFO's point is wrong. You CANNOT change your genetics via steroids. If the parent gets well-built from steroids, then he had the potential already and that is what is passed on to the child. Steroids simply do NOT affect your actual genetic structure, they don't cause a mutation in your genes guys. Yes, genetics are passed on from generation to generation, but you will NOT change your genetics through steroids, and you won't change your kids.

 

[Clean]

I don't know about steroids changing genetics, but I do think that if you were pre disposed to being fat because of your parents, and you either take steroids or naturally work your ass off to change your body and keep it that way for many years, that if will affect your kids.

I am pretty sure you can change your body, whether it be naturally or from steroids, and have it affect your kids.

If your parents are fat, and your whole family, and you work your ass off, I don't think it matters whether steroids are a factor or not. And I believe that the longer you keep your body changed, the more it will havea bearing on kids.

 

[paul allen]

However, DJUFO's point is wrong. You CANNOT change your genetics via steroids. If the parent gets well-built from steroids, then he had the potential already and that is what is passed on to the child. Steroids simply do NOT affect your actual genetic structure, they don't cause a mutation in your genes guys. Yes, genetics are passed on from generation to generation, but you will NOT change your genetics through steroids, and you won't change your kids.

Correct. Genes cannot been changed. Only through consuming large amounts of carcinogens, laying in the sun all day, and working in a nuclear power plant can you change you DNA sequence, but it would be a bit hit and miss as to changing the muscle building genes, and like in most cases you'll end up altering the P53 gene and getting cancer.

But it is feasible that your kids will be strong and athletic as it boils down to the 'Nature or Nurtue' debate. Although genetics do mean alot the fact that you raise your kid with a excellent high protein diet, lots of activity and a passion to be big and ripped, then that will surely rub off on them.

 

[Tux]

Yep, nature vs nurture. You can't change your genes or your kids genes through steroids. However, that's nature. If you use steroids, obviously you're much more likely to be in good physical shape and have healthier habits, and THAT you CAN pass on to your kids. So in that respect, yes your kids would be more likely to be in better shape, however it still has nothing to do with their genetics or steroids directly, it's simply a change in their lifestyle, or nurture.

 

[Steve The Bluesman]

YES, you can. You can alter genetics generation after generation. Examples, simple. This is something old. When you see a fat woman in her 50's with her hot daughter in her 20's, there's no doubt that girl will be the same as her mom in their 50's. Why? She is genetically ready to get fat easier than other girls. The same at the inverse. When you have an athletic dad and an athletic mom, their sons will be genetically ready to be fit and athletic.

We have other factors like nutrition and excercise. But that's just a complement to genetics. In fact, people that inherit slow metabolism from slow metabolism parents (due to a long chain of bad nutrition habits in their ancestors) have to make double efforts to be fit in these days.

This is an excellent point, but enviroment can also be claimed as the reason. In your examples, wouldn't it be more likely for the two fit parents to raise a fit child by teaching good eating habits and the benefits and fun of sports and exersize? On on the other side, the 50 year old whale mother will not have much to offer the 20 year old except chocolate and donuts, hence the vicious cycle of fat chicks.

In reality, I think it is a little of both - but it takes work to get out of either cycle.

Bluesman

 

[mrplunkey]

You can't alter your genetics with gear.

If you are in good shape as a parent, chances are your kids will want to be "like you" and will be the same way. If some kid grows up watching his dad bang out 315 on the bench, he's not going to rush to the local legwarmers & headband gym and get excited over doing 135 himself.

 

[Makavelli]

Yep, nature vs nurture. You can't change your genes or your kids genes through steroids. However, that's nature. If you use steroids, obviously you're much more likely to be in good physical shape and have healthier habits, and THAT you CAN pass on to your kids. So in that respect, yes your kids would be more likely to be in better shape, however it still has nothing to do with their genetics or steroids directly, it's simply a change in their lifestyle, or nurture.

I agree. You can't alter genetics with AAS.

 

[badslinky]

No, not at all. You can't alter you DNA through use of steroids. .

Actually my biochemistry professor begs to differ. He said that steroids cause the DNA to be replicated incredibly more than usually to produce proteins which would increase errors significantly. One that would be bad if it happened alot would be frame-shift mutations.

 

[toxicsambo]

If the pregnant female takes steroids, then she will alter the development of the fetus. But I don't see any evidence proving genetics can be altered. Unless she walks through Chernobyl and the child is born into "RADIOACTIVE-MAN!!!!"

 

[badslinky]

Well Sambo a mutagen is considered anything that interacts with DNA. Some mutagens are ciggerette smoke, alcohol, and STEROIDS. If a mutation changes the
sequence of DNA in a gene, then the mRNA and protein made from that gene will be
different than it was before the mutation. Most mutations are harmful and lead to the
synthesis of abnormal or non-functional proteins which could cause cell death or cancer.
Its unlikely to happen but there is a 1 in a million chance it could.

 

[Gastroc O'Jenkins]

AAS? No. But I would think in the future with gene therapy that we'll be able to make ourselves healthier (or bigger) and that genetic makeup would be passed down...

 

[badslinky]

When I find my biochemistry book I will try to have more scientific proof. Actually Im seeing my professor tonight Ill ask him and get back to you guys later. I may be wrong but if I am its because my professor was wrong or I miss heard him.

 

[LeanOnMe]

I remember reading how that prolonged and frequent steroid use could permanantly change your bodies ability to protein synthesis. Could this then, if true, be passed along to your kids through heredity? Maybe it wouldn't take a dna change to pass along certain traits.

 

[busamuscle]

Well Sambo a mutagen is considered anything that interacts with DNA. Some mutagens are ciggerette smoke, alcohol, and STEROIDS. If a mutation changes the
sequence of DNA in a gene, then the mRNA and protein made from that gene will be
different than it was before the mutation. Most mutations are harmful and lead to the
synthesis of abnormal or non-functional proteins which could cause cell death or cancer.
Its unlikely to happen but there is a 1 in a million chance it could.

you are correct in in all the above except that i dont think that these have any effect on germ line cells wich produce gametes for reproduction!

 

[Tux]

Badslinky, technically your professor is right, but overall it's still not gonna happen. AAS increase muscle mass, which increases metabolism. The more cells you have, the more overall cell replications you have, and therefore the more chances at one of them mutating. However, there is statistically NO chance that you'll somehow get a mutation which causes your children to have higher test levels, lower myostatin levels, etc, from your usage of steroids. You might increase the % of random frame shift mutations yes, but most of those mutations have no effect and are dealt with by the body before they become a problem. T3 would do the exact same thing by increasing metabolic rate, even caffeine/ephedrine will to some degree. AAS still cannot cause your genetics to change in any meaningful way, nor can you pass your "enhanced" body on to your children, as genetically, you're the same as before you used steroids. Yes, you can reset your bodies "set point", and maintain a higher weight and leaner weight than you could have before steroids, but your actual genetic code will remain unchanged. So, all that rambling aside, AAS will not change your genes or your kids.

 

[toxicsambo]

Does Arnold's children look deformed or retarded or superhuman? Or Lee Hnaey's, the list can go on and on. So I say no. It won't effect the genetics of a fetus. Does anyone remember the german "SuperBaby"?
http://www.spartechsoftware.com/dimensions/people/GermanSuperBaby.htm

Muatations run in the childs family. Maybe they were remnants from Hitler's SuperHuman Aryan race where scientists spliced genes. They're keeping the family history very secret. Hmmmmmmm....

 

[badslinky]

Well I should of been more specific to what I was replying to. Alot of people were saying that you can not alter your DNA through steroid use, which technically you can no matter how remote the possibility is.

 

[krishna]

Actually YES! Your DNA is constantly storing and updating who we are. Granted that a lot of your DNA is constant such as eye color and hair color etc., but your genes are constantly sending and receiving messages which it remembers. Glad this thread came up cause I just got done with the genetics section of my biology course.

 

[krishna]

Obviously your offspring won't start producing their own steroids or anything, but the effects it caused to your body will be remembered and stored in your genes. If the father has more muscle mass from steroids, then the potential for higher muscle mass would be passed to the offspring. That would explain your friend gaining so easily.

 

[a-f-x]

interesting thread. and hayabusas are slow.

 

[busamuscle]

Well I should of been more specific to what I was replying to. Alot of people were saying that you can not alter your DNA through steroid use, which technically you can no matter how remote the possibility is.

thats what i was geting at u can change your DNA but i dont think that effects the germ line DNA.

a-f-x you can put your mouth where my cock is!! j/k bro if you have a faster bike lets see a pick with you on it.I do have a busa that has not been touched by any bike around.

 

[a-f-x]

thats what i was geting at u can change your DNA but i dont think that effects the germ line DNA.

a-f-x you can put your mouth where my cock is!! j/k bro if you have a faster bike lets see a pick with you on it.I do have a busa that has not been touched by any bike around.

i do have a zx12r that has not been touched by any bike around.
i wonder how many other people here roll on streetbikes?
props to you though, you do have one badass sport tourer, on the topic of genetics, your hayabusa is genetically related to the suzuki sidekick isnt it?
i fear only turbo.

 

[krishna]

Good point - the germ line probably won't be altered much at all (if any), therefore passing the same information to the child whether or not the father did roids

 

[Fukkenshredded]

Wait wait wait.

If you take steroids, chances are your kids will like pizza.

So if I fry and egg...I can get high?

 

[kahbab]

Well Sambo a mutagen is considered anything that interacts with DNA. Some mutagens are ciggerette smoke, alcohol, and STEROIDS. If a mutation changes the
sequence of DNA in a gene, then the mRNA and protein made from that gene will be
different than it was before the mutation. Most mutations are harmful and lead to the
synthesis of abnormal or non-functional proteins which could cause cell death or cancer.
Its unlikely to happen but there is a 1 in a million chance it could.

this is correct AAS can cause cancer (not to often i think) so it will affect the DNA since cancer is a genetic mutation (uncontrolled cell division). what the question was can it cause a positive change that will breed a more athletic child with better genes. the answer to that is no IMO. the same question could be raised in regards to the negative side affects of AAS like cancer or hair loss. can that be passed on? i think not but you have to consider passing on the good and the bad.

 

[busamuscle]

i do have a zx12r that has not been touched by any bike around.
i wonder how many other people here roll on streetbikes?
props to you though, you do have one badass sport tourer, on the topic of genetics, your hayabusa is genetically related to the suzuki sidekick isnt it?
i fear only turbo.

the zx12 is a fast bike but they are about a few mph slower than the busa at top speed but my bike is not stock my friend!but you and i both know that it more about the rider than the bike!

 

[a-f-x]

i hate to change the subject of this thread, which is an interesting theory, but im surprised to see fellow riders on this board. theres gotta be a few more besides you and me busa. ill send you a pm later, ive gotta get my fat ass to school now.

 

[badslinky]

like cancer or hair loss. can that be passed on? i think not but you have to consider passing on the good and the bad.

Can hairloss be passed on...? Yes. Its called MPB. Can cancer be passed on...? Yes most definetly. The chances of this happening... Slim. As far as creating a super child from muscle gains that were aquired from AAS...? I dunno, Im thinking no because steriods simply increase protein synthesis and mineral levels through increased testosterone levels in most cases the do not alter your genes into making you a super human. When you stop taking steroids do you still maintain that high level of protein sysnthesis? I have never heard of this. Is it possible, Who knows, the may be a 1 out of a billion oddity were something bizzare happens but I have no idea... My scientific knowledge stops here. I have had fun debating this topic though, this sort of stuff intrests me.

 

[Tux]

Well, I don't think you can ALTER your genetics themselves via steroids. However, I do believe you can surpass your non-enhanced genetic "max", so to speak, and maintain that. For example, when I first started lifting weights, I was 16, junior in high school. 5'5", and 112lbs. Lean but freakin' tiny. 3 years later, after 2 years of training and a year of serious powerlifting, I weighed in at 123lbs at my heaviest. I simply could not get much above that, 125 maybe on a good day. If that was all the gains I could get at my natural testosterone peak, even when my metabolism slowed down I doubt I'd ever have weighed more than 140-145lbs lean. Did some gear... ok a lot of gear, lol, and now I can maintain 170-175lbs 10% bf at 5'5" without using anything. On cycle I've been as high as 205lbs 11%, I tend to hover around 180-185 these days. Did I change my actual genetic code? No. But did I vastly surpass the maximum development I could have acheived naturally? Hell yes I did. I believe this was due, in some part, to the hyperplasia effects of IGF and tren, in addition to the more general hypertrophy that occurs with most gear. I can't wait for genetic engineering though, just shoot me with a nice retro-virus, and my test levels double, IGF doubles, myostatin drops in half, and I'm a freak inside 3 months baby

 

[Agathe]

Well I know a guy who's father used steroids and was a track star in europe. This guy actually played in the nba for 2 years and now plays ball in europe. The guy is naturally a monster. When he was 18 he dunked over a car in an allstar game. Probobly one of the strongest players in europe. Too slow and bad shot didn't give him a spot in the NBA for too long.

http://www.geocities.com/eraltug81/milic.html

that site is dedicated to him

 

[toxicsambo]

Well, I don't think you can ALTER your genetics themselves via steroids. However, I do believe you can surpass your non-enhanced genetic "max", so to speak, and maintain that. For example, when I first started lifting weights, I was 16, junior in high school. 5'5", and 112lbs. Lean but freakin' tiny. 3 years later, after 2 years of training and a year of serious powerlifting, I weighed in at 123lbs at my heaviest. I simply could not get much above that, 125 maybe on a good day. If that was all the gains I could get at my natural testosterone peak, even when my metabolism slowed down I doubt I'd ever have weighed more than 140-145lbs lean. Did some gear... ok a lot of gear, lol, and now I can maintain 170-175lbs 10% bf at 5'5" without using anything. On cycle I've been as high as 205lbs 11%, I tend to hover around 180-185 these days. Did I change my actual genetic code? No. But did I vastly surpass the maximum development I could have acheived naturally? Hell yes I did. I believe this was due, in some part, to the hyperplasia effects of IGF and tren, in addition to the more general hypertrophy that occurs with most gear. I can't wait for genetic engineering though, just shoot me with a nice retro-virus, and my test levels double, IGF doubles, myostatin drops in half, and I'm a freak inside 3 months baby

Yeah, I think gear altering your genetic code is highly unlikely. If it were that easy then we would see tons of mutated individuals being born, which isn't the case. Someone would just up and use gear for the purpose of creating a freak baby. Development is altogether different and very real. That's the purpose of nutrition, training, and gear. So we can achieve our max potential and then some. But it stops there, and stops with the user. AAS users have well developed delts, back, and forearms. Those are the telltale signs of development, not genetic restructuring.

 

[busamuscle]

Yeah, I think gear altering your genetic code is highly unlikely. If it were that easy then we would see tons of mutated individuals being born, which isn't the case. Someone would just up and use gear for the purpose of creating a freak baby. Development is altogether different and very real. That's the purpose of nutrition, training, and gear. So we can achieve our max potential and then some. But it stops there, and stops with the user. AAS users have well developed delts, back, and forearms. Those are the telltale signs of development, not genetic restructuring.

I will make this simple the more times your cells and DNA replicate the higher the chance for genetic mutation and that is how life has evolved ,mostly through genetic mutation of some sort!!

 

[Tux]

And I will KEEP it simple for ya busa. Those are RANDOM mutations. Taking steroids isn't going to change your genes to reflect the changes in your phenotype. Just b/c your dad took lots of gear and slightly, VERY SLIGHTLY, increased his rate of random mutations, does not mean in ANY way, that your genes will somehow have been improved on b/c of that. You might get a random mutation that helps you, you might have gotten it anyway. You might also get trisomy of the 21st chromosome and be fucked lol. Point is, yes you do increase the rate of random mutations, but they're just that, random. No overall change in your genetic structure. If a fetus incurs any serious changes to it's genes, it very rarely survives the first trimester of pregnancy, much less survives to be born. Sorry, but ya can't load up on gear and then have super-kids... though it'd be a sweet racket if you could

 

[Outtlaw]

this is correct AAS can cause cancer (not to often i think) so it will affect the DNA since cancer is a genetic mutation (uncontrolled cell division). what the question was can it cause a positive change that will breed a more athletic child with better genes. the answer to that is no IMO. the same question could be raised in regards to the negative side affects of AAS like cancer or hair loss. can that be passed on? i think not but you have to consider passing on the good and the bad.

Come on man, you cant make claims like that without scientific backup. I havent seen anyone prove that AAS by itself can directly cause cancer in a healthy individual. Sure, AAS may increase the odds of getting cancer in people who are at high risk or have cancer that runs in their family, but you cant turn that around and say that its the AAS that caused them to get the cancer when they may have gotten it regardless in the 1st place.

Same thing with hairloss. I never get any hairloss as a side effect, but Im not prone to it and it doesnt run in my family.

 

[kahbab]

Come on man, you cant make claims like that without scientific backup. I havent seen anyone prove that AAS by itself can directly cause cancer in a healthy individual. Sure, AAS may increase the odds of getting cancer in people who are at high risk or have cancer that runs in their family, but you cant turn that around and say that its the AAS that caused them to get the cancer when they may have gotten it regardless in the 1st place.

Same thing with hairloss. I never get any hairloss as a side effect, but Im not prone to it and it doesnt run in my family.

i am not makeing any personal claims about hairloss or cancer but there is plenty of proof that AAS contributes to those problems. it is to broad of a subject to discuss if a person will get cancer or a genetic diseases because it is many! combined factors that bring those things together. it is not one mutation that causes cancer it is more than a few combined. imo it is in the genes weather a person will be affected by AAS, smokeing, pollution, or the sun. it is very possible for a person to use AAS all his life, get cancer, and blame it on the juice when in reality it was his garden fertilizer that he used for years.

 

[busamuscle]

And I will KEEP it simple for ya busa. Those are RANDOM mutations. Taking steroids isn't going to change your genes to reflect the changes in your phenotype. Just b/c your dad took lots of gear and slightly, VERY SLIGHTLY, increased his rate of random mutations, does not mean in ANY way, that your genes will somehow have been improved on b/c of that. You might get a random mutation that helps you, you might have gotten it anyway. You might also get trisomy of the 21st chromosome and be fucked lol. Point is, yes you do increase the rate of random mutations, but they're just that, random. No overall change in your genetic structure. If a fetus incurs any serious changes to it's genes, it very rarely survives the first trimester of pregnancy, much less survives to be born. Sorry, but ya can't load up on gear and then have super-kids... though it'd be a sweet racket if you could

I already stated that steroids would not affect germ line cells tux if you would take the time and read you would know this!!

 

[Outtlaw]

i am not makeing any personal claims about hairloss or cancer but there is plenty of proof that AAS contributes to those problems. it is to broad of a subject to discuss if a person will get cancer or a genetic diseases because it is many! combined factors that bring those things together. it is not one mutation that causes cancer it is more than a few combined. imo it is in the genes weather a person will be affected by AAS, smokeing, pollution, or the sun. it is very possible for a person to use AAS all his life, get cancer, and blame it on the juice when in reality it was his garden fertilizer that he used for years.

I completely agree, but in your previous post you clearly stated that AAS "caused" cancer.

 

[*spencer*]

you are correct in in all the above except that i dont think that these have any effect on germ line cells wich produce gametes for reproduction!

Now that I can agree with.

However the original question was whether you could get a predictable change making the son more muscular just like the father. The answer to that is ASOLUTELY POSITIVELY NO. PERIOD.

Honestly the fact that this post has gone on this long is actually pathetic. But here I am adding to it so what does it say about me?