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deoxycholate is a bile salt, its also a detergent.

J Am Acad Dermatol. 2005 Dec;53(6):973-8. Epub 2005 Oct 19. Related Articles, Links


Lipomas treated with subcutaneous deoxycholate injections.

Rotunda AM, Ablon G, Kolodney MS.

Division of Dermatology, University of California Los Angeles, David Geffen School of Medicine, Los Angeles, California, USA. [email protected]

BACKGROUND: Lipomas are benign neoplasms of mature fat cells. Current treatments are invasive and carry the risk of scarring. Injections of phosphatidylcholine solubilized with deoxycholate, a bile salt, have been used to reduce unwanted accumulations of fat. Recent in vitro and ex vivo investigations indicate that deoxycholate alone causes adipocyte lysis. OBJECTIVE: We sought to report our experience treating lipomas using subcutaneous deoxycholate injections. METHODS: A total of 6 patients presenting with 12 lipomas were treated with intralesional injections of sodium deoxycholate (1.0%, 2.5%, and 5.0%) at intervals of 2 to 20 weeks. Tumor size, cutaneous reactions, and patients' subjective responses were recorded before and after treatment. RESULTS: All lipomas decreased in size (mean area reduction, 75%; range, 37%-100%) as determined by clinical measurement (with ultrasound confirmation in one lipoma) after an average of 2.2 treatments. Several lipomas fragmented or became softer in addition to decreasing in volume. Adverse effects, including transient burning, erythema, and local swelling, were associated with higher deoxycholate concentrations but resolved without intervention. There was no clear association between deoxycholate concentration and efficacy. CONCLUSIONS: Our clinical experience supports our laboratory investigations demonstrating that deoxycholate, rather than phosphatidylcholine, is the active ingredient in subcutaneously injected formulas used to treat adipose tissue. This small series suggests that low concentration deoxycholate may be a relatively safe and effective treatment for small collections of fat. However, controlled clinical trials will be necessary to substantiate these observations.

Dermatol Surg. 2004 Jul;30(7):1001-8. Related Articles, Links


Detergent effects of sodium deoxycholate are a major feature of an injectable phosphatidylcholine formulation used for localized fat dissolution.

Rotunda AM, Suzuki H, Moy RL, Kolodney MS.

Division of Dermatology, University of California Los Angeles, David Geffen School of Medicine, Los Angeles, California, USA.

BACKGROUND: Phosphatidylcholine injections are becoming an increasingly popular technique to treat localized fat accumulation. This formula is composed primarily of phosphatidylcholine and sodium deoxycholate, a bile salt used to solubilize the natural phospholipid in water. The mechanism through which this injectable phosphatidylcholine formulation causes localized fat reduction is unknown. OBJECTIVE: To investigate the active component and mechanism of action of an injectable phosphatidylcholine formulation in clinical use. METHODS: Cell viability and cell membrane lysis assays were performed on cell cultures and porcine skin after treatment with the phosphatidylcholine formula, isolated sodium deoxycholate, or common laboratory detergents Triton-X 100 and Empigen BB. In addition, we described the histologic changes after injection of these substances into porcine tissue. RESULTS: A significant and comparable loss of cell viability, cell membrane lysis, and disruption of fat and muscle architecture was seen in cell cultures and tissue specimens treated with the phosphatidylcholine formula and isolated sodium deoxycholate. These findings were similar to the effects produced after treatment with laboratory detergents. CONCLUSIONS: The phosphatidylcholine formula popularly used in subcutaneous injections for fat dissolution works primarily as a detergent causing nonspecific lysis of cell membranes. Our findings suggest that sodium deoxycholate is the major active component responsible for cell lysis. Detergent substances may have a role in eliminating unwanted adipose tissue. It is advised that physicians use caution until adequate safety data are available.
 
macrophage69alpha said:
yohimburn ES will help you to mobilize stubborn fats- this is technically spot fat reduction

deoxycholate, injected will lyse fat cells, though its indiscriminate in its lysis so great care should be used with it. IMHO its not particularly safe to inject detergents.

there are other things that induce local fat loss GH for instance, as well as pgf2a.

I thought that spot fat reduction with GH was a small site where you inject directly into. For instance, covering a square inch of fatty tissue. That wouldn't be of much advantage if trying to remove fat, from say, an entire area.
 
macrophage69alpha said:
deoxycholate is a bile salt, its also a detergent.

J Am Acad Dermatol. 2005 Dec;53(6):973-8. Epub 2005 Oct 19. Related Articles, Links


Lipomas treated with subcutaneous deoxycholate injections.

Rotunda AM, Ablon G, Kolodney MS.

Division of Dermatology, University of California Los Angeles, David Geffen School of Medicine, Los Angeles, California, USA. [email protected]

BACKGROUND: Lipomas are benign neoplasms of mature fat cells. Current treatments are invasive and carry the risk of scarring. Injections of phosphatidylcholine solubilized with deoxycholate, a bile salt, have been used to reduce unwanted accumulations of fat. Recent in vitro and ex vivo investigations indicate that deoxycholate alone causes adipocyte lysis. OBJECTIVE: We sought to report our experience treating lipomas using subcutaneous deoxycholate injections. METHODS: A total of 6 patients presenting with 12 lipomas were treated with intralesional injections of sodium deoxycholate (1.0%, 2.5%, and 5.0%) at intervals of 2 to 20 weeks. Tumor size, cutaneous reactions, and patients' subjective responses were recorded before and after treatment. RESULTS: All lipomas decreased in size (mean area reduction, 75%; range, 37%-100%) as determined by clinical measurement (with ultrasound confirmation in one lipoma) after an average of 2.2 treatments. Several lipomas fragmented or became softer in addition to decreasing in volume. Adverse effects, including transient burning, erythema, and local swelling, were associated with higher deoxycholate concentrations but resolved without intervention. There was no clear association between deoxycholate concentration and efficacy. CONCLUSIONS: Our clinical experience supports our laboratory investigations demonstrating that deoxycholate, rather than phosphatidylcholine, is the active ingredient in subcutaneously injected formulas used to treat adipose tissue. This small series suggests that low concentration deoxycholate may be a relatively safe and effective treatment for small collections of fat. However, controlled clinical trials will be necessary to substantiate these observations.

Dermatol Surg. 2004 Jul;30(7):1001-8. Related Articles, Links


Detergent effects of sodium deoxycholate are a major feature of an injectable phosphatidylcholine formulation used for localized fat dissolution.

Rotunda AM, Suzuki H, Moy RL, Kolodney MS.

Division of Dermatology, University of California Los Angeles, David Geffen School of Medicine, Los Angeles, California, USA.

BACKGROUND: Phosphatidylcholine injections are becoming an increasingly popular technique to treat localized fat accumulation. This formula is composed primarily of phosphatidylcholine and sodium deoxycholate, a bile salt used to solubilize the natural phospholipid in water. The mechanism through which this injectable phosphatidylcholine formulation causes localized fat reduction is unknown. OBJECTIVE: To investigate the active component and mechanism of action of an injectable phosphatidylcholine formulation in clinical use. METHODS: Cell viability and cell membrane lysis assays were performed on cell cultures and porcine skin after treatment with the phosphatidylcholine formula, isolated sodium deoxycholate, or common laboratory detergents Triton-X 100 and Empigen BB. In addition, we described the histologic changes after injection of these substances into porcine tissue. RESULTS: A significant and comparable loss of cell viability, cell membrane lysis, and disruption of fat and muscle architecture was seen in cell cultures and tissue specimens treated with the phosphatidylcholine formula and isolated sodium deoxycholate. These findings were similar to the effects produced after treatment with laboratory detergents. CONCLUSIONS: The phosphatidylcholine formula popularly used in subcutaneous injections for fat dissolution works primarily as a detergent causing nonspecific lysis of cell membranes. Our findings suggest that sodium deoxycholate is the major active component responsible for cell lysis. Detergent substances may have a role in eliminating unwanted adipose tissue. It is advised that physicians use caution until adequate safety data are available.

Great read - thanks MAC, i thought you were referring to my Helios
 
MAC


Would you say that Phosphatidylcholine is more effective than Helios?
 
A hard stomach is a clear sign of dedication to your body. The only reason lard asses don't do them is because they are too lazy. They come in get a pump in one muscle group then leave. Wow, you can have big muscles in 45 mins a day with juice. The people that cardio and do abs seperate themselves from the bodies that don't. Period

rnch said:
i realize my point of view will be flamed by many people here, but here goes:

4/6/8 packs don't impress me. never did, never will.

Pumped Up Pecs, Bis, Traps, Deltoids, Glutes, Quads, Calves and an overall symetric, pleasing to the eye balanced overall build catches my eye (and envy) more than some naturally lean guy with pecs the same size as his waist or (even worse yet) a 6 pack that sticks out farther than his chest does. :rolleyes:
 
natty4life said:
Would you say that Phosphatidylcholine is more effective than Helios?

I have Clen and Yohimbine and I am curious to try injectable Helios. I was wondering if you made your own out of your existing products, or did you have to find sterile versions of these? Does it really work well for spot reduction?
 
ABS are built in the kitchen this is a NO BRAINER. And cardio dude NEVER DO CARDIO after you lift. You would be fuckin up your shit. You eat right after you lift. You need all the nutrients you can to grow. Whoever said 20mins after lifting is a dumb fuck I am sorry to say this but it is the truth they are a dumbfuck. =D
 
P01NTBL4NK said:
ABS are built in the kitchen this is a NO BRAINER. And cardio dude NEVER DO CARDIO after you lift. You would be fuckin up your shit. You eat right after you lift. You need all the nutrients you can to grow. Whoever said 20mins after lifting is a dumb fuck I am sorry to say this but it is the truth they are a dumbfuck. =D

???

Do you realize working out, depletes your glycogen storage for energy? And also did you know that when you are out of glycogen, your body starts finding other sources of energy.....

and you do know that FAT contains more calories(energy) per gram right? While Carbs only have 4 right?

This is why we do AM cardio, to do your cardio with low glycogen/energy levels so your body will tap into its FAT source for it.

45 mins after working out could be negative, but 15-20........c'mon

Also, if you would like to comeBACK and answer this post, please explain WHY 20 minutes dumb after weight training? I do know that your body needs nutrients to grow, but it seems you are repeating stuff you read.........

so you must have read that the window of opportunity after working out is about 30-45 mins right?

And i hope you dont come back with an aswer, because after 45 mins your testosterone is low, because on SAT's i go in and train 8-12 Powerlifting, and 12-230 Sparing Muy Thia.........SOOOOO my cardio on SAT is WAY longer then 20-30 mins, but i DO EAT before fighting.....

I do agree with you one one point, Abs are made in the kitchen...i was told that one time by a special bunny here and havnt stoped thinking that way since
 
i am what i am said:
I hate to disagree with you about spot reduction, but your body naturally does it all the time. When you lose wight its not always proportional. Some will lose it around their chest, some around their stomach, and some around the love handles. There are products out there like creams that are meant to be applied transdermally to the area you wish to reduce to help liquify the fat in that area. Only problem with this is that if you dont do cardio then the fat can deposit itself else where.


Yes, your body does spot reduce itself, but the question is about making it spot reduce where YOU want it too. In my opinion, it cannot be done. You diet, cardio, workout and your body is going to burn the fat where it does. for me, my love handles are the last to go, but they do go.
 
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