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Richard Dawkins

Lestat

Lestat

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Wow. I had never heard of this guy until last week when they had his character on South Park. I've been reading his website and watching a lot of interviews with him on youtube and this guy feels pretty much exactly how I do, but is able to explain it in a way that anyone could understand!

I've know of Sam Harris, a more recent philosopher to write about god vs science, but this Richard Dawkins guy really knows his stuff. I'm going to donate to his Foundation for Reason and Science.

http://richarddawkins.net/
 
Athiest or Christian, fact is your constant anti-God threads are getting old.
 
I believe in god but I love his writings. All knowledge is good knowledge. Science plays a part in my life, so does religion. Both can coexist. Then again I am not an extremist.
 
Lestat said:
Wow. I had never heard of this guy until last week when they had his character on South Park. I've been reading his website and watching a lot of interviews with him on youtube and this guy feels pretty much exactly how I do, but is able to explain it in a way that anyone could understand!

I've know of Sam Harris, a more recent philosopher to write about god vs science, but this Richard Dawkins guy really knows his stuff. I'm going to donate to his Foundation for Reason and Science.

http://richarddawkins.net/
Click to expand...

Try alchemy.
 
jackangel said:
there's no doubt about that.

i wonder if he's all impressed with the selfish gene and meme-related concepts
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i had learned about memes in college bio, had no idea he was one of the most outspoke atheists. Probably a good thing since that shouldn't be mixed with college curriculum, not in bio at least.

And am I bitter towards religion? Not at all. I can see why strong believers would be quick to say that.

Instead I'm frustrated by it, probably the same way they would feel about me. I feel like I see or understand concepts that they can't, just as I am sure they feel "faith" that I don't.

I'm excited to read some of Dawkin's books now.
 
i am an atheist, but i am not as passionate about changing peoples views on god. i think everyone by now should except the fact that god has absolutely no control over the world, since that wouldn't make any sense. also, people need to see that evolution is real, and it is has happened in humans and other animals. this is a fact.
you get no where arguing about the start of the universal. if god started the ball rolling or the big bang happened. there is no way of knowing.
i am glad he is trying to get people to understand that not believing in a god is ok.
 
wakefib said:
i am an atheist, but i am not as passionate about changing peoples views on god. i think everyone by now should except the fact that god has absolutely no control over the world, since that wouldn't make any sense. also, people need to see that evolution is real, and it is has happened in humans and other animals. this is a fact.
you get no where arguing about the start of the universal. if god started the ball rolling or the big bang happened. there is no way of knowing.
i am glad he is trying to get people to understand that not believing in a god is ok.
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Here lies an Atheist: All Dressed Up and No Place to Go

or my personal favorite.

An atheist is a man who looks through a telescope and tries to explain all that he can't see
 
my beliefs (call it faith) tell me that the same thing happens to me when I die as happens to anybody else, regardless of what they believe in.
 
Lestat said:
my beliefs (call it faith) tell me that the same thing happens to me when I die as happens to anybody else, regardless of what they believe in.
Click to expand...

and what would that be? I mean what do you think happens when we die?
 
rykertest said:
It is in reference to an atheists funeral. He is dead, laying thre all dressed up and now what?
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Dressed up? God I hope I don't die in a suit and tie! That's like getting in a fight while wearing a suit.....so unbecoming........ :)
 
medical said:
Dressed up? God I hope I don't die in a suit and tie! That's like getting in a fight while wearing a suit.....so unbecoming........ :)
Click to expand...


They put makeup on you too. You know the fluid they use to embalm you with? It is colord to match your skin tone or ethnicity.
 
rykertest said:
and what would that be? I mean what do you think happens when we die?
Click to expand...
consciousness ends, we cease to exist.

I have no reason to believe that there is such a thing as a "soul"
 
medical said:
Then how do you explain Aretha Franklin?
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lol. good one.

The soul is an interesting proposition. We can't really test to see if there is a soul. We can't affect it in any way. We can't create or destroy it.

When does the soul get created? Was there a soul for me before I was born? Did it exist forever, as long as god did?

Does it get created at conception? If so, when exactly? When the sperm fertilizes the egg?

If so, eggs can split into twins, do two souls get created at conception, or at the split.

Also, two zygotes can merge as well! Were there two souls that get put into one body? Do the souls merge?

If there is a soul, whatever it is, I believe it is much like consciousness, a physical manifestation of the brain, which is physical matter. Once the brain is gone, consciousness is gone, as so is the soul.

You'd think that of all the billions of souls that have existed, we'd have seen one, or been able to study it on some level at this point. Maybe one day we will, but until then I have no reason to believe it exists anymore than I have reason to believe that I have a personal guardian angel with me right now.
 
Lestat said:
lol. good one.

The soul is an interesting proposition. We can't really test to see if there is a soul. We can't affect it in any way. We can't create or destroy it.

When does the soul get created? Was there a soul for me before I was born? Did it exist forever, as long as god did?

Does it get created at conception? If so, when exactly? When the sperm fertilizes the egg?

If so, eggs can split into twins, do two souls get created at conception, or at the split.

Also, two zygotes can merge as well! Were there two souls that get put into one body? Do the souls merge?

If there is a soul, whatever it is, I believe it is much like consciousness, a physical manifestation of the brain, which is physical matter. Once the brain is gone, consciousness is gone, as so is the soul.

You'd think that of all the billions of souls that have existed, we'd have seen one, or been able to study it on some level at this point. Maybe one day we will, but until then I have no reason to believe it exists anymore than I have reason to believe that I have a personal guardian angel with me right now.
Click to expand...

Couple questions for you.

1) Do you beleive in God? (if not, who created you or how do you think you came to be?)

2) Do you beleive in evolution?
 
rykertest said:
would you describe yourself a humanist?
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I'm not familiar with what that means.

I consider myself agnostic, I can't say for certain that there is no god, but all of the evidence I have thus far doesn't point towards there being one.

I believe that all things start off simple, VERY simple and over time through small incremental changes grows into things that are more complex. Much like the evolution of this world.

I consider myself a rational thinker, a logical thinker, and a realist.
 
Lestat said:
I'm not familiar with what that means.

I consider myself agnostic, I can't say for certain that there is no god, but all of the evidence I have thus far doesn't point towards there being one.

I believe that all things start off simple, VERY simple and over time through small incremental changes grows into things that are more complex. Much like the evolution of this world.

I consider myself a rational thinker, a logical thinker, and a realist.
Click to expand...

Here is what a humanist is. I really think this is what you are.

Sorry forgot the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism
 
I would consider myself a secular humanist but they are full of condescending dogmatists like Penn Jillette and Randi the magician. These people are as dogmatic as any 14th century catholic priest, but they will never admit it to themselves. They are really damn annoying too, because they don't even try to debunk things they don't believe in with any real effort anymore. The Penn Jillettes and Amazing Randis of the world are soooo certain that their views and theirs alone are true that they will resort to lies, distortions, myths, harassment and insults rather than intelligent debate.

I personally believe consciousness survives death. There is a book called the afterlife experiments that details a psycholgists attempt to do double blind studies to determine if consciousness survives death, where he gets results that show this is possible. Rather than intelligenty, rationally and open mindedly attempt to examine his evidence, the 'scientist squad' like Randi just ridiculed him and made ad hominem attacks.

http://www.dailygrail.com/node/1311

http://www.psicounsel.com/marius/dearjames2.htm


Watch an episode of Penn & Teller's 'bullshit' if you want more examples of mindless, dogmatic half truths masquerading as science. Anyway, this is off topic. But my point is that even though there are brilliant thinkers like Dawkins, many of the figureheads in the secular humanist movement are just as intolerant, dogmatic and 100% certain that their views (and theirs alone) are correct as any Bin Ladin or Pope Innocent III. Its alot like that episode of southpark, where religious intolerance is replaced with athiest intolerance.
 
Lao Tzu said:
I would consider myself a secular humanist but they are full of condescending dogmatists like Penn Jillette and Randi the magician. These people are as dogmatic as any 14th century catholic priest, but they will never admit it to themselves. They are really damn annoying too, because they don't even try to debunk things they don't believe in with any real effort anymore.

I personally believe consciousness survives death. There is a book called the afterlife experiments that details a psycholgists attempt to do double blind studies to determine if consciousness survives death, where he gets results that show this is possible. Rather than intelligenty, rationally and open mindedly attempt to examine his evidence, the 'scientist squad' like Randi just ridiculed him and made ad hominem attacks.

http://www.dailygrail.com/node/1311

Watch an episode of Penn & Teller's 'bullshit' if you want more examples of mindless, dogmatic half truths masquerading as science. Anyway, this is off topic. But my point is that even though there are brilliant thinkers like Dawkins, many of the figureheads in the secular humanist movement are just as intolerant, dogmatic and 100% certain that their views (and theirs alone) are correct as any Bin Ladin or Pope Innocent III. Its alot like that episode of southpark, where religious intolerance is replaced with athiest intolerance.
Click to expand...
And I will eat the entrails of the time-child on my belly!
 
Your soul is like the energy in a battery. Once the energy is gone, the battery is no good. Once your soul (energy) is gone, just a shell is left. We have not yet mastered how to recharge that shell with additional energy (soul).
 
rykertest said:
Couple questions for you.

1) Do you beleive in God? (if not, who created you or how do you think you came to be?)

2) Do you beleive in evolution?
Click to expand...
Do I believe in a god? No. What is there to believe in? I'd believe that there was intelligent life elsewhere before I believed in a god. Why? Because I can understand exactly how life can thrive in the right conditions.

Do I believe in evolution, absolutely! Its been proven just as much as things like the theory of Gravity, or relativity have.

That is what many religious zealots do not graps or understand about theories. Theories are models to explain and predict things. You take all of the KNOWN facts about something, and you use them to construct a theory. Just like Christians take the Bible, an anectdotal stories passed down from others, mix in a few human emotions and elements and come up with their own theory. The difference is, there is hard evidence for evolution that can be reproduced, and tested. We see DNA mutations right now in today's world. A single human can underdo thousands if not millions of them in a lifetime, imagine those little incremental changes spread over millions if not billions of years?

We can also look at DNA and trace back common pieces of our DNA through most species of life no this planet. Its not hard to see how certain species have been selected for specific traits that allowed them to survive in specific environments, time periods, climates, etc.
 
Lestat said:
Do I believe in a god? No. What is there to believe in? I'd believe that there was intelligent life elsewhere before I believed in a god. Why? Because I can understand exactly how life can thrive in the right conditions.

Do I believe in evolution, absolutely! Its been proven just as much as things like the theory of Gravity, or relativity have.

That is what many religious zealots do not graps or understand about theories. Theories are models to explain and predict things. You take all of the KNOWN facts about something, and you use them to construct a theory. Just like Christians take the Bible, an anectdotal stories passed down from others, mix in a few human emotions and elements and come up with their own theory. The difference is, there is hard evidence for evolution that can be reproduced, and tested. We see DNA mutations right now in today's world. A single human can underdo thousands if not millions of them in a lifetime, imagine those little incremental changes spread over millions if not billions of years?

We can also look at DNA and trace back common pieces of our DNA through most species of life no this planet. Its not hard to see how certain species have been selected for specific traits that allowed them to survive in specific environments, time periods, climates, etc.
Click to expand...

i find it is easier for people to see how evolution works if you give them examples that they can see. for example: different coloured people is a traited that allowed people to survive in their climate, along with other traits.
 
wakefib said:
i find it is easier for people to see how evolution works if you give them examples that they can see. for example: different coloured people is a traited that allowed people to survive in their climate, along with other traits.
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I thought that was a given?

Giraffes have long necks to reach the high food. Bats have eyes that do them no good because they live in the dark. I think even the most religious will agree that no perfect being created animals with non functioning eyes. It was something that evolved over time.

During human devleopment we grow a tail, gill sacks, and at one point have a full body coat of hair. Things that really serve no purpose during our neo natal development. The world is full of inconsistencies and inefficiencies like that.
 
Lestat said:
I thought that was a given?

Giraffes have long necks to reach the high food. Bats have eyes that do them no good because they live in the dark. I think even the most religious will agree that no perfect being created animals with non functioning eyes. It was something that evolved over time.

During human devleopment we grow a tail, gill sacks, and at one point have a full body coat of hair. Things that really serve no purpose during our neo natal development. The world is full of inconsistencies and inefficiencies like that.
Click to expand...
i totally agree, but for people that don't believe in evolution. what can they say about proof of evolution they see everyday and in humans?
 
Lestat
I agree with you on many facets. The only perspective you seem to be missing is this. You are trying to explain that which is infinite, beyond form and definition, prime power, formless awareness and infinite potential using something as finite as "science".
Unfortunately this is not possible. There are realms in the astral and celestial planes that operate within laws that do not coincide with that of the physical realm. It is smply a matter of subjective reality vs. objective reality. Objectively, unless it is a well hidden governement secret, one cannot travel through time. Yet subjectively we can put ourselves back or in any future event or moment we wish with a mere thought.
The proposition of a soul is an interesting one. Do this simple test and see what answer you come up with?
Close your eyes and imagine the impression of an apple. Got it? Good, now who is looking @ the apple? Since your eyes are shut you cannot say it was them. Maybe it was your brain? well if so who was looking through your brain looking @ the apple?
you are on the right track though bro..try to suspend judgement for awhile and really LOOK inwards and outwords, trust your intuition and feel. :beer:
 
Wulfgar said:
Lestat
I agree with you on many facets. The only perspective you seem to be missing is this. You are trying to explain that which is infinite, beyond form and definition, prime power, formless awareness and infinite potential using something as finite as "science".
Unfortunately this is not possible. There are realms in the astral and celestial planes that operate within laws that do not coincide with that of the physical realm. It is smply a matter of subjective reality vs. objective reality. Objectively, unless it is a well hidden governement secret, one cannot travel through time. Yet subjectively we can put ourselves back or in any future event or moment we wish with a mere thought.
The proposition of a soul is an interesting one. Do this simple test and see what answer you come up with?
Close your eyes and imagine the impression of an apple. Got it? Good, now who is looking @ the apple? Since your eyes are shut you cannot say it was them. Maybe it was your brain? well if so who was looking through your brain looking @ the apple?
you are on the right track though bro..try to suspend judgement for awhile and really LOOK inwards and outwords, trust your intuition and feel. :beer:
Click to expand...
wulfgar:

The image of the apple is being processed by my brain, yes, my physical brain. That is a simple test. You can see all sorts of things with your eyes closed or even without either optic nerve functioning.

And you say I am trying to use "science" the study of the physical world, to describe something infinite, prime power, formless, etc. You use these human adjectives to describe something you have no proof or evidence of, and by definition would never need proof of evidence of. Anyone can do that, children frequently, they are called imaginary friends. Can you prove that childhood imaginary friends do not exist?
 
Lestat said:
wulfgar:

The image of the apple is being processed by my brain, yes, my physical brain. That is a simple test. You can see all sorts of things with your eyes closed or even without either optic nerve functioning.

And you say I am trying to use "science" the study of the physical world, to describe something infinite, prime power, formless, etc. You use these human adjectives to describe something you have no proof or evidence of, and by definition would never need proof of evidence of. Anyone can do that, children frequently, they are called imaginary friends. Can you prove that childhood imaginary friends do not exist?
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Then who is looking through your brain processing the image of the apple?


Also, with your example of using childhood friends. First you need to define what does the term "exist" mean? Do your thoughts exist? do they have form and structure? Does love "exist" or any other emotion for that matter? and how do you measure those?
Im asking how do you define that which has no definition? How do you encapsulate something infinite with something finite? and for that matter, where did original thought come from anyhow? How does one create something from which there was nothing?
 
Wulfgar said:
Then who is looking through your brain processing the image of the apple?


Also, with your example of using childhood friends. First you need to define what does the term "exist" mean? Do your thoughts exist? do they have form and structure? Does love "exist" or any other emotion for that matter? and how do you measure those?
Im asking how do you define that which has no definition? How do you encapsulate something infinite with something finite? and for that matter, where did original thought come from anyhow? How does one create something from which there was nothing?
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No one is looking through my brain processing the image of the apple, its happening IN my brain, where everything you see, touch, taste, hear, or feel is processed. Nerves fire in specifc places, in the example you described the are firing in various areas of the brain.

So emotion and thoughts exist as we subjectively experience them. We do not use them to define physical properties of the universe, but the universe can certainly influence them. Again these are taking place in the brain and can be stopped and will immediately cease if you were to "kill" the brain. As the brain died, so would these.

Your last part starts talking about the meta physical again, which is fine, its great to explore the spiritual side of human consciousness. Its when people start trying to take that non tangible feeling, and turn that into real world physical facts that are nothing more than lies, that is when that exploration starts to become a problem. The brain is powerful, it can be manipulated in a variety of ways.
 
Lestat said:
No one is looking through my brain processing the image of the apple, its happening IN my brain, where everything you see, touch, taste, hear, or feel is processed. Nerves fire in specifc places, in the example you described the are firing in various areas of the brain.

So emotion and thoughts exist as we subjectively experience them. We do not use them to define physical properties of the universe, but the universe can certainly influence them. Again these are taking place in the brain and can be stopped and will immediately cease if you were to "kill" the brain. As the brain died, so would these.

Your last part starts talking about the meta physical again, which is fine, its great to explore the spiritual side of human consciousness. Its when people start trying to take that non tangible feeling, and turn that into real world physical facts that are nothing more than lies, that is when that exploration starts to become a problem. The brain is powerful, it can be manipulated in a variety of ways.
Click to expand...
lol, your actually right and that was about the best answer you could give!! There is more truth to that answer than you know bor.
But your 2nd paragraph completely contradicts itself. You are saying emotion and thoughts exist as we subjectively expereince them right? But we do not use them to define physical properties of the universe? that is a fallacy. Take 2 people looking @ a painting, one of the people thinks it is the most hideous thing they have ever seen and for the other, it moves them to tears. These are both subective experiences being manifested through the physical focal point(the body) by way of emotion. One FEELS disgust and revulsion, which are coupled by millions upon millions of chemical reactions all taking place in the PHYSICAL and not just in the brain. Same with the person who is weeping @ the beauty. Both are examples of the subjective influencing the objective and vice versa.
And it is good you acknowledge the spiritual. It is the part of U that influences self, other, groups, species, nature and physcial law on all levels.
To truly regain your own self-determinism, it is important to discern your personal lifes path from someone elses path of truth, methodology, system, religion, modality, philosophy, technology, etc. and then be courageous enough to follow it. As you begin to awaken and listen to the guidance of your true self(hint, it AINT just gray matter), you will distinguish your path. You will begin to realzie that systems are just tools or guides to aid you in your own discoveries.
 
Wulfgar said:
lol, your actually right and that was about the best answer you could give!! There is more truth to that answer than you know bor.
But your 2nd paragraph completely contradicts itself. You are saying emotion and thoughts exist as we subjectively expereince them right? But we do not use them to define physical properties of the universe? that is a fallacy. Take 2 people looking @ a painting, one of the people thinks it is the most hideous thing they have ever seen and for the other, it moves them to tears. These are both subective experiences being manifested through the physical focal point(the body) by way of emotion. One FEELS disgust and revulsion, which are coupled by millions upon millions of chemical reactions all taking place in the PHYSICAL and not just in the brain. Same with the person who is weeping @ the beauty. Both are examples of the subjective influencing the objective and vice versa.
And it is good you acknowledge the spiritual. It is the part of U that influences self, other, groups, species, nature and physcial law on all levels.
To truly regain your own self-determinism, it is important to discern your personal lifes path from someone elses path of truth, methodology, system, religion, modality, philosophy, technology, etc. and then be courageous enough to follow it. As you begin to awaken and listen to the guidance of your true self(hint, it AINT just gray matter), you will distinguish your path. You will begin to realzie that systems are just tools or guides to aid you in your own discoveries.
Click to expand...
Again, two people looking at a painting can be boiled down to very specific physical properties. It doesn't matter if the painting moves you to tears or makes you laugh, its physical properties and matter are unchanged. Those emotions are manifesting themselves in a physical nature. Once you start talking about the effects on the physical form of the body, they can all be traced back to the brain or some other system that acts upon our body.

Could there be something more to it, sure! Its possible. Would I like to think there is, sure, that is a nice though. If it brings someone joy is it ok? Yes, that is fine. But just because a thought of belief, or even an action makes someone happy, it doesn't mean its the truth. Self explore all you want, but don't start defining the properties of the universe based on principles and beliefs that are no more probably that millions of other similar thoughts and beliefs and using those to define certain truths of the world and universe. For example: There will be an Armagedon. Some people are going to Heaven. Some people are going to hell. You make a very big jump when you go from tryin to find your "path of truth" to telling someone they are immoral for behaving in a certain way, and because of that they will eventually end up in hell.
 
Lestat said:
Again, two people looking at a painting can be boiled down to very specific physical properties. It doesn't matter if the painting moves you to tears or makes you laugh, its physical properties and matter are unchanged. Those emotions are manifesting themselves in a physical nature. Once you start talking about the effects on the physical form of the body, they can all be traced back to the brain or some other system that acts upon our body.

Could there be something more to it, sure! Its possible. Would I like to think there is, sure, that is a nice though. If it brings someone joy is it ok? Yes, that is fine. But just because a thought of belief, or even an action makes someone happy, it doesn't mean its the truth. Self explore all you want, but don't start defining the properties of the universe based on principles and beliefs that are no more probably that millions of other similar thoughts and beliefs and using those to define certain truths of the world and universe. For example: There will be an Armagedon. Some people are going to Heaven. Some people are going to hell. You make a very big jump when you go from tryin to find your "path of truth" to telling someone they are immoral for behaving in a certain way, and because of that they will eventually end up in hell.
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Im not makin your wrong bro. Or attacking you. Im just giving you some other perspectives. You seem to have grounded yourself pretty heavily in alot of athiestic methodologies. And again, there is nothing wrong with that. Like I said before, everyone has thier own path.
I beleive the greatest tradjedy that has befallen us is that we have lost faith in OURSELVES. Instead we look to others to make choices for us, tell us our truths, define us, lead us, propogate us, ect. Im not defining the universe bro. Im undefining it. That, truly is the only way to freedom from the fears and limitations that blind us to who we really are.

But bro, I can understand your frustration @ religion, you and many others are upset with the perpetuating dogma. It is the same for those tired of tyranny and oppression, and you have the right to question it all and find your own answers. Just keep an open mind that there is more, much more out there than u know.
 
Lestat said:
Do I believe in a god? No. What is there to believe in? I'd believe that there was intelligent life elsewhere before I believed in a god. Why? Because I can understand exactly how life can thrive in the right conditions.

Do I believe in evolution, absolutely! Its been proven just as much as things like the theory of Gravity, or relativity have.

That is what many religious zealots do not graps or understand about theories. Theories are models to explain and predict things. You take all of the KNOWN facts about something, and you use them to construct a theory. Just like Christians take the Bible, an anectdotal stories passed down from others, mix in a few human emotions and elements and come up with their own theory. The difference is, there is hard evidence for evolution that can be reproduced, and tested. We see DNA mutations right now in today's world. A single human can underdo thousands if not millions of them in a lifetime, imagine those little incremental changes spread over millions if not billions of years?

We can also look at DNA and trace back common pieces of our DNA through most species of life no this planet. Its not hard to see how certain species have been selected for specific traits that allowed them to survive in specific environments, time periods, climates, etc.
Click to expand...


Why are we the only species that squints at the sun???
Did we de-evolutionize the thick brow line our neanderthal ancestors once had? Well evolution doesn't go backwards. And were is the missing link?
 
Wulfgar said:
There are realms in the astral and celestial planes that operate within laws that do not coincide with that of the physical realm.
Click to expand...

What evidence is there that these planes even exist?
 
reaper99 said:
Why are we the only species that squints at the sun???
Did we de-evolutionize the thick brow line our neanderthal ancestors once had? Well evolution doesn't go backwards. And were is the missing link?
Click to expand...
Why would you consider the ability to squint an evolutionary regression? You are substituting a fixed structure for one that is more adaptive and flexible in its environment. I would cal that an advancement. The thick brow would block your viewing radius, eliminating as much facial obstruction as possible in relationship to the eye's range of vision would be an improvement, not a disadvantage. To compensate for giving up the brow to gain greater visual range we develop the ability to squint.

Wow..win, win.
 
Mr. dB said:
What evidence is there that these planes even exist?
Click to expand...
they exist here and now, along with the physical
they are mearly the realms of dreams, thoughts, feelings, and pretty much everything NOT physical
 
reaper99 said:
Why are we the only species that squints at the sun???
Did we de-evolutionize the thick brow line our neanderthal ancestors once had? Well evolution doesn't go backwards. And were is the missing link?
Click to expand...
What do you mean evolution doesn't go "backwards."

Humans have LESS body hair than their ancestors. It was needed before we wore clothing (fur and animal hides were worn by some early humans, others wore vegetation).

Why do we squint in the sun? I would theorize that it is because the environment has undergone changes in the past few thousand years that allows MORE UV light than even to penetrate our sky, the human body does not evolve dramatically over that short of a time span, so we haven't caught up and likely never will because of things like sunglasses.
 
WODIN said:
Why would you consider the ability to squint an evolutionary regression? You are substituting a fixed structure for one that is more adaptive and flexible in its environment. I would cal that an advancement. The thick brow would block your viewing radius, eliminating as much facial obstruction as possible in relationship to the eye's range of vision would be an improvement, not a disadvantage. To compensate for giving up the brow to gain greater visual range we develop the ability to squint.

Wow..win, win.
Click to expand...

HOGWASH!!
 
Evolution is def real. It's just humans didn't evolve from monkeys or neanderthals. Humans have squinted since day one its not a recent thing. It has nothing to do with the sun and the heavy brow line our so called ancestors had did not obstruct vision. Why would we evolve to have to squint thats just a disadvantage. Homo sapiens are a hybrid of neanderthals and the ancient Anunnaki. Aliens baby aliens, it would be just plain dumb and ignorance to think there are no other living creatures in the many galaxies in this universe. All life sustaining elements and properties come from the stars, which is obviously how Earth and the creatures on here were started.
 
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reaper99 said:
Evolution is def real. It's just humans didn't evolve from monkeys or neanderthals. Humans have squinted since day one its not a recent thing. It has nothing to do with the sun and the heavy brow line our so called ancestors had did not obstruct vision. Why would we evolve to have to squint thats just a disadvantage. Homo sapiens are a hybrid of neanderthals and the ancient Annukai. Aliens baby aliens, it would be just plain dumb and ignorance to think there are no other living creatures in the many galaxies in this universe. All life sustaining elements and properties come from the stars, which is obviously how Earth and the creatures on here were started.
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I can't verify that "humans have squinted since day 1"

I also do not believe that it is neccesarily a disadvantage or an example of de-evolving.

I have no proof of intelligent life elsewhere, but I believe that there is a strong possibility of it at some point in time, if not now then in the future, or possibly in the past.
 
Lestat said:
I can't verify that "humans have squinted since day 1"

I also do not believe that it is neccesarily a disadvantage or an example of de-evolving.

I have no proof of intelligent life elsewhere, but I believe that there is a strong possibility of it at some point in time, if not now then in the future, or possibly in the past.
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Let me show you the way. I must say I like your points of view and your not the typical conformist that preach's propaganda bullshit. A real free thinker which all humans should be not conforming to what one person originaly thought was right (christians and other religions). All religions have there points but most take the bible and other religous books as documentation and manuscripts when really it has some truth but it is all obscured, its taken out of context. I like to consider myself a radical thinker. It should be about divinity and faith rather then religion as long as one believes and stives to personal divinity then all is well.
 
And the ancient egyptians is where its at. They were beyond there time and believed in a after life but more on a science level all about cosmos and stars. Isn't it wierd that we can find dinasaur bones from millions of years ago yet we can't find no species that is the missing link? Or better yet there has been no findings of a body or remains of any ancient pharaohs or the ancient egyptian kings. Where did they go?
 
reaper99 said:
Let me show you the way. I must say I like your points of view and your not the typical conformist that preach's propaganda bullshit. A real free thinker which all humans should be not conforming to what one person originaly thought was right (christians and other religions). All religions have there points but most take the bible and other religous books as documentation and manuscripts when really it has some truth but it is all obscured, its taken out of context. I like to consider myself a radical thinker. It should be about divinity and faith rather then religion as long as one believes and stives to personal divinity then all is well.
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Thank you bro I appreciate that. Life is all about learning.
 
reaper99 said:
And the ancient egyptians is where its at. They were beyond there time and believed in a after life but more on a science level all about cosmos and stars. Isn't it wierd that we can find dinasaur bones from millions of years ago yet we can't find no species that is the missing link? Or better yet there has been no findings of a body or remains of any ancient pharaohs or the ancient egyptian kings. Where did they go?
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what about King Tut?
 
wakefib said:
i am an atheist, but i am not as passionate about changing peoples views on god. i think everyone by now should except the fact that god has absolutely no control over the world, since that wouldn't make any sense. also, people need to see that evolution is real, and it is has happened in humans and other animals. this is a fact.
you get no where arguing about the start of the universal. if god started the ball rolling or the big bang happened. there is no way of knowing.
i am glad he is trying to get people to understand that not believing in a god is ok.
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I have the same beliefs, but I don't think it's right to put others down for what they believe.
 
jnevin said:
I have the same beliefs, but I don't think it's right to put others down for what they believe.
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I'm working on trying not to belittle the individual, but we've been trained to think that religious beliefs are somehow protected. You can say anything you want, no matter how outlandish, how improbable, how insane and if someone calls you on it, then the person who calls you on it is the asshole.

In every other area of life that is just not so. If you saw someone going around saying 2+2 = 5 you'd correct them and no one would think you were an asshole for it.
 
Lestat said:
I'm working on trying not to belittle the individual, but we've been trained to think that religious beliefs are somehow protected. You can say anything you want, no matter how outlandish, how improbable, how insane and if someone calls you on it, then the person who calls you on it is the asshole.

In every other area of life that is just not so. If you saw someone going around saying 2+2 = 5 you'd correct them and no one would think you were an asshole for it.
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For the record, you and I have basically the same beliefs. My idea of god is just as the thing that made all our shit. Same as a kid makes sea monkeys. Everything else is on cruise control.
 
jnevin said:
For the record, you and I have basically the same beliefs. My idea of god is just as the thing that made all our shit. Same as a kid makes sea monkeys. Everything else is on cruise control.
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This is about as simplified as anything I've ever said, but whatever.
 
jnevin said:
For the record, you and I have basically the same beliefs. My idea of god is just as the thing that made all our shit. Same as a kid makes sea monkeys. Everything else is on cruise control.
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you always struck me as a pretty rational dude.
 
reaper99 said:
Evolution is def real. It's just humans didn't evolve from monkeys or neanderthals. Humans have squinted since day one its not a recent thing. It has nothing to do with the sun and the heavy brow line our so called ancestors had did not obstruct vision. Why would we evolve to have to squint thats just a disadvantage. Homo sapiens are a hybrid of neanderthals and the ancient Anunnaki. Aliens baby aliens, it would be just plain dumb and ignorance to think there are no other living creatures in the many galaxies in this universe. All life sustaining elements and properties come from the stars, which is obviously how Earth and the creatures on here were started.
Click to expand...

no one ever said we evolved from monkeys. we have a common ancestor with APES.
 
reaper99 said:
And the ancient egyptians is where its at. They were beyond there time and believed in a after life but more on a science level all about cosmos and stars. Isn't it wierd that we can find dinasaur bones from millions of years ago yet we can't find no species that is the missing link? Or better yet there has been no findings of a body or remains of any ancient pharaohs or the ancient egyptian kings. Where did they go?
Click to expand...

There have been plenty of mummified Pharoahs found. We have both Ramses I and II, for example. And Tut-ankh-amen, of course.

Define "missing link"? There are lots of fossilized specimens of species that appear to be transitional between ape and human, and they form a distinct time line.
 
Mr. dB said:
There have been plenty of mummified Pharoahs found. We have both Ramses I and II, for example. And Tut-ankh-amen, of course.

Define "missing link"? There are lots of fossilized specimens of species that appear to be transitional between ape and human, and they form a distinct time line.
Click to expand...

Not all Pharoahs just the ones from the old kindom ancient egypt.
 
So what if ancient pharoahs are not found? I am not sure the relevance? Bodies decompose, even ones people meant to preserve.
 
If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses.-Lenny Bruce
 
reaper99 said:
Just stating that it was wierd.
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no more weird than the fact that we can't find many physical things mentioned in ancient books (like the bible)s
 
mightymouse69 said:
when you die, we will have a nice prayer session for you bro here among the EF Christians.
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thanks bro, i appreciate the thought.
 
mightymouse69 said:
Anytime, let's hope its when we are all old and grey...do you have a favorite prayer? we can say it?
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yeah I hope we all live long and fulfilled lives.

I don't have a favorite prayer, just somehow incorporate "good bro" into it
 
mightymouse69 said:
Anytime, let's hope its when we are all old and grey...do you have a favorite prayer? we can say it?
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They have Dial-a-Prayer for atheists now.

You call up and it rings and rings but nobody answers
 
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