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Reps!!!
- Thread starter Unit 2005
- Start date
ihateschool243
New member
6-8 rep range.
6_pak said:
Really? iv heard that higher reps tend to work better for the leg muscle groups. makes sense if you consider that they do alot more work in day to day life i guess.
Right now im doing quite low reps, 5 on core exercises and 15 on isolation. Im trying to build up my strength at the moment but wouldnt mind some size at the same time!!
The reason i did this poll is that after i have improved my strength, i want to put on some quality muscle and have been told by alot of people that higher reps are the way to go if you are looking to bulk up.......
depends on which muscle.
calves, forearms, rear delts, traps - 12-20 reps
chest, delts, back, legs - 6-10 reps
biceps, triceps - 8-12 reps
although, always training heavy for strenght with low reps gave me muscle, jsut as well as a traditional bbing routine is meant to do. i just recently switched to a bbing style of training, i like it alot. i still have 1-2 heavy lifts though
calves, forearms, rear delts, traps - 12-20 reps
chest, delts, back, legs - 6-10 reps
biceps, triceps - 8-12 reps
although, always training heavy for strenght with low reps gave me muscle, jsut as well as a traditional bbing routine is meant to do. i just recently switched to a bbing style of training, i like it alot. i still have 1-2 heavy lifts though
Unit 2005 said:
hi everyone'.
my 10 yrs of training is based on this rep range chat'.
> If your goal is gaining strength- train in the rep rang of 2-4rep max.
(for example powerlifting is the only sport where they train in this rep rang coz there goal is to get stronger and stronger- they not gonna go on the stage and show there 6 pakz- its pure strength training)',
>If your goal is gaining strength and Hypertrophy train in the rep range of 6-10rep max.(tatz wat Dorian Yates training comes in-this is wat ive been following for the last 6 yrs- trust me guys it works)
>if your goal is only Hypertrophy (INCREASE IN LEAN MUSCLE MASS)then train in the rep range of 10-15 rep max.
>if your goal is endurance then train in the rep range of 20-25 rep max.
>at last if your rep range exceed more then 25 reps then your are wasting your time in the gym coz training in the rep range of 25+ takes you in aerobic zone- so the bottom line is select a weight which gives you 6-10reps if you looking for strength and Hypertrophy'. PERIOD
SO TILL NEXT TIME KEEP PUMPING- IF YOU GUYS NEED ANY HELP ON TRAINING NUTRITION OR supplements- PLZ FEEL FREE TO ASK ME'. MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS- [email protected]
_______________________________________________________
I hated every minute of training, but i said, "don't quit. Suffer now & live da rest of ur life as a CHAMP|ON."
Last edited:
USMC fighter
New member
12 TO 15 since i got into mixed martial arts- trying to gain more muscular indurance
blut wump
New member
Do you mean reps per set or total reps per bodypart per workout?
Prilepin made a chart based on most effective rep range based on intensity or percentage of 1RM. It's a bit long but there's an interesting article on goheavy about building a workout based on Prilepin's table of weight vs reps.
http://www.goheavy.com/forums/train/index.cgi/noframes/read/1754
Prilepin made a chart based on most effective rep range based on intensity or percentage of 1RM. It's a bit long but there's an interesting article on goheavy about building a workout based on Prilepin's table of weight vs reps.
http://www.goheavy.com/forums/train/index.cgi/noframes/read/1754
C
curgeo
Guest
Powerlifting we train with a variety of rep schemes. You should also do that for mass training. One of the reasons 5x5 works so well for mass and strength is you use a heavy enough weight for strength development due to only being able to complete 5 reps, but you also stress the muscle for enough time for it to be able to grow.
Another excellent article by Louis Simmons talking about prilepin's chart. This article deals with rep schemes. Please read it when you get the chance.
DON’T CHASE YOUR TAIL
As told to Powerlifting USA
by Louie Simmons
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am fascinated whenever my pit bull, Jackie, chases his tail. Round and round he goes, going nowhere fast, until he finally realizes he’s right back where he started. But I will give him credit; at least he knows he’s going nowhere fast. My dog attended obedience school for 4 weeks, so maybe he has an advantage over his human counterparts, i.e., those Ph.D.s in exercise physiology in schools that are still teaching progressive gradual overload.
I recently read an article by a U.S. PhD. He described a yearly plan consisting of four phases. The first phase is designed to increase muscle rnass, i.e., hypertrophy, and to increase the training base.
A point that must be made is that after the end of phase 1, in as little as 2 weeks, your muscle size will start to diminish, by 10-15%, causing in a sense, a detraining effect. The stronger the lifter, the faster this will happen. For example, work your lats or abs intensity for 2 or 3 weeks, Then stop completely. You will notice a great decrease in muscle mass. This does not make much sense to me, and I hope it doesn’t make sense to you either.
Raising muscle mass, if that is the goal, or raising GPP is not only a yearly goal but a multi-year goal. It can be accomplished by incorporating a dynamic day, on which just one of a variety of special strengths is refined, and a maximal effort day that occurs 72 hours later rising several sets of well-thought-out exercises for that particular muscle groups that need strengthening. This can also be accomplished by doing extra workouts during the week.
For max strength, weights from 30 to 100%+ of a 1 rep max are used, which causes a restricted blood supply, resulting in a hard muscle contraction, thus providing a strength gain. The extra workouts that use weight or resistance less than 30% will effect restoration by increasing circulation. Ten extra workouts a week is a normal load. Doing special exercises for the classical lifts will increase your strength and perfect form. Concentrate on only the muscle groups that aid in raising the lift or total. For example, don’t squat, but do special exercise for squatting, such as glute/ham raises, pull-throughs, Reverse Hyper, or belt squats, plus ab work, Also do exercises for flexibility.
In place of benching, do triceps extensions with a bar, dumbbells, on bands, delt raises, lats, upper back, and external rotation work. With this method, one never stops building muscle mass. Switch exercises that work the same muscles (the conjugate method). This will allow one to constantly build muscle mass, GPP, and SPP.
According to the article I was reading, phase 2 is the precompetitive phase normally lasting 6 weeks. The Ph.D. now states one must raise top strength or absolute strength. During this phase the lifter concerns himself with raising his squat, deadlift, and bench press using all major exercises, rack work, good mornings, etc.
Let’s look at an alternative method: the maximal effort method. This incorporates the conjugate method: using special exercises that closely resemble the classical lifts. Examples are squatting with special devices, such as the MantaRay or cambered bar, concentric work, good mornings, or dead lifts using the contrast or reactive method. The weights are always 100% plus, depending on your level of preparedness, i.e. how close one is to top lifting form, which incidentally should never drop below 90% of your all-time records.
The maximal effort method is calculated much like the Bulgarian system, meaning always doing the most possible, even when far from contest time. As you can clearly see, this method allows you to lift your current max every week of the year, not just for a few weeks near one or two contests during the year.
Well, so far the PhD’s from the US. advocate building muscle mass, then allowing it to disappear after ceasing the hypertrophy phase. This is not training, but detraining. The same happens after phase 2. The Westside method, however, allows one to become larger sad more muscular and stronger all year long.
The PhD’s classes are now learning phase 3, for explosive strength. This phase again lasts about 6 weeks. For this phase the main goal is to increase bar speed. The weight here reaches 60-85% of a 1 rep max, and they add plyometrics. Then they move into the peaking or contest phase. Here they recommend going from high reps, light weights or high volume, low intensity to heavy weights, low reps, which results in lower volume, but high intensity.
Controlling volume and intensity is very important. When one does sets with 70, 75, 80, and then 85% for doubles, It is impossible for the lifter to understand what task is the goal. How do you determine if you are lifting with the same effectiveness at each percentage? If the weights are moving at the same max rate of acceleration, all is well, But when the weights are raised that high, this is not possible. Rule of thumb train at intensities of 60%, 70%, 80%, or 90-100%+. Prilepin’s studies of more than l000 Olympic, National, and European champions showed that there is an optimal number of reps at certain percentage ranges(see table). If one uses one percent per workout the task is easier to realize. Lighter weights are used for explosive and speed strength (6O-80%) and weights of 90% or more for strength speed. It is not advisable to train for two types of strength in one workout.
Here’s how it’s done. For speed strength use a pendulum wave. During week 1, use 60% for multiple sets: l rep for pulls, 2 reps for the squat, and 3 reps in the bench. Week 2; 65%. Week 3:70%. Then drop back to 60% on week 4 and 65% on week 5. Use 70% on week 6. Then drop bath down again. This is a pendulum wave. This kind of wave is used because one cannot increase in speed or top strength after 3 weeks of increasing the weight. If one continues to increase the weight, the bar speed will suffer dramatically, which must not happen.
What about absolute strength? Three days separate the dynamic workout and the max effort day. The is because the major muscle groups recuperate In 72 hairs. The max effort workout is performed with the conjugate method. This allows one to lift weights of 100%+ each week. This is possible by switching exercises each week.
For example, for the squat and deadlift day, week 1, 10-inch low box with the MantaRay; week 2, bent-over good mornings; week 3, 12-inch low box with the Safety Squat bar. For the bench press, week 1, three-board press; week 2, floor press; week 3, Lightened bend press. There are many core exercises to choose from. For the Olympic lifter, week 1, snatch grip high pulls; week 2, straight leg power cleans; week 3. cleans from above the knee.
This method of training allows one to work on weak areas often overlooked by doing the classical lifts. It will also perfect form and coordination. This type of training also allows one to perform extra workouts for strength restoration, and flexibility.
With the progressive overload method, it is virtually impossible to control the volume. But, if you train at one percent range, it is easily controlled. To squat 600, we. know that a total volume of 7200 pounds is needed. This is arrived at by using a top percent of 60% and a lower percent of 50%. For example, 50% of 600 = 300 x 12 sets of 2 reps=7200 pounds. On week 3 the weight is 60% of 600 = 360 x 10 sets of 2 reps = 7200. A volume of 9600 is used to squat 800. 50% of 800 = 400 x 12 sets of 2 reps = 9600 pounds. 10 sets of 2 reps with 480 (60%) = 9600 pounds. This works for any squat of any weight. This is called flat loading. During the 3-week wave you also rotate special exercises such as glute/ham raises, pull-throughs, and the Reverse Hyper. In week 1, you are unfamiliar with the exercise that will promote a bigger squat, so the volume is understandably low. By week 3 you have grown familiar with the exercise and the volume grows.
Number of Reps for Percentage Training
Percent reps per set optimal total range
55-65 3-6 24 18-30
70-75 3-6 18 12-24
80-85 2-4 15 10-20
above 90 1-2 7 4-10
One cannot succeed by doing only the classical lifts. One will cease to make progress. The greater the lifter, the more tasks you need to stimulate progress.
Progressive gradual overload accomplishes only one goal at a time, while actually detraining the phase you just completed in as fast as 2 or 3 weeks. In addition, after a contest you must start over exactly where you started. But the system Westside has adapted from the old Soviet system allows you to build muscle mass, speed, and absolute strength, perfect form, raise your GPP, increase your flexibility, and provides restoration all year long, year after year. We raise all qualities gradually, never neglecting one for another.
I am in no way criticizing the Ph.D.s in the United Slates. It is the material in the text books that is terribly outdated and perpetuated to be the truth, when - in fact - it leads nowhere, just like my dog Jackie’s tail chasing. I suggest reading books such as Supertraining, which contains, the ideas of many well-respected foreign experts on strength qualities. This book can be purchased from Elite Fitness Systems (888-854-8806). Westside Barbell 614-276-0923
Another excellent article by Louis Simmons talking about prilepin's chart. This article deals with rep schemes. Please read it when you get the chance.
DON’T CHASE YOUR TAIL
As told to Powerlifting USA
by Louie Simmons
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am fascinated whenever my pit bull, Jackie, chases his tail. Round and round he goes, going nowhere fast, until he finally realizes he’s right back where he started. But I will give him credit; at least he knows he’s going nowhere fast. My dog attended obedience school for 4 weeks, so maybe he has an advantage over his human counterparts, i.e., those Ph.D.s in exercise physiology in schools that are still teaching progressive gradual overload.
I recently read an article by a U.S. PhD. He described a yearly plan consisting of four phases. The first phase is designed to increase muscle rnass, i.e., hypertrophy, and to increase the training base.
A point that must be made is that after the end of phase 1, in as little as 2 weeks, your muscle size will start to diminish, by 10-15%, causing in a sense, a detraining effect. The stronger the lifter, the faster this will happen. For example, work your lats or abs intensity for 2 or 3 weeks, Then stop completely. You will notice a great decrease in muscle mass. This does not make much sense to me, and I hope it doesn’t make sense to you either.
Raising muscle mass, if that is the goal, or raising GPP is not only a yearly goal but a multi-year goal. It can be accomplished by incorporating a dynamic day, on which just one of a variety of special strengths is refined, and a maximal effort day that occurs 72 hours later rising several sets of well-thought-out exercises for that particular muscle groups that need strengthening. This can also be accomplished by doing extra workouts during the week.
For max strength, weights from 30 to 100%+ of a 1 rep max are used, which causes a restricted blood supply, resulting in a hard muscle contraction, thus providing a strength gain. The extra workouts that use weight or resistance less than 30% will effect restoration by increasing circulation. Ten extra workouts a week is a normal load. Doing special exercises for the classical lifts will increase your strength and perfect form. Concentrate on only the muscle groups that aid in raising the lift or total. For example, don’t squat, but do special exercise for squatting, such as glute/ham raises, pull-throughs, Reverse Hyper, or belt squats, plus ab work, Also do exercises for flexibility.
In place of benching, do triceps extensions with a bar, dumbbells, on bands, delt raises, lats, upper back, and external rotation work. With this method, one never stops building muscle mass. Switch exercises that work the same muscles (the conjugate method). This will allow one to constantly build muscle mass, GPP, and SPP.
According to the article I was reading, phase 2 is the precompetitive phase normally lasting 6 weeks. The Ph.D. now states one must raise top strength or absolute strength. During this phase the lifter concerns himself with raising his squat, deadlift, and bench press using all major exercises, rack work, good mornings, etc.
Let’s look at an alternative method: the maximal effort method. This incorporates the conjugate method: using special exercises that closely resemble the classical lifts. Examples are squatting with special devices, such as the MantaRay or cambered bar, concentric work, good mornings, or dead lifts using the contrast or reactive method. The weights are always 100% plus, depending on your level of preparedness, i.e. how close one is to top lifting form, which incidentally should never drop below 90% of your all-time records.
The maximal effort method is calculated much like the Bulgarian system, meaning always doing the most possible, even when far from contest time. As you can clearly see, this method allows you to lift your current max every week of the year, not just for a few weeks near one or two contests during the year.
Well, so far the PhD’s from the US. advocate building muscle mass, then allowing it to disappear after ceasing the hypertrophy phase. This is not training, but detraining. The same happens after phase 2. The Westside method, however, allows one to become larger sad more muscular and stronger all year long.
The PhD’s classes are now learning phase 3, for explosive strength. This phase again lasts about 6 weeks. For this phase the main goal is to increase bar speed. The weight here reaches 60-85% of a 1 rep max, and they add plyometrics. Then they move into the peaking or contest phase. Here they recommend going from high reps, light weights or high volume, low intensity to heavy weights, low reps, which results in lower volume, but high intensity.
Controlling volume and intensity is very important. When one does sets with 70, 75, 80, and then 85% for doubles, It is impossible for the lifter to understand what task is the goal. How do you determine if you are lifting with the same effectiveness at each percentage? If the weights are moving at the same max rate of acceleration, all is well, But when the weights are raised that high, this is not possible. Rule of thumb train at intensities of 60%, 70%, 80%, or 90-100%+. Prilepin’s studies of more than l000 Olympic, National, and European champions showed that there is an optimal number of reps at certain percentage ranges(see table). If one uses one percent per workout the task is easier to realize. Lighter weights are used for explosive and speed strength (6O-80%) and weights of 90% or more for strength speed. It is not advisable to train for two types of strength in one workout.
Here’s how it’s done. For speed strength use a pendulum wave. During week 1, use 60% for multiple sets: l rep for pulls, 2 reps for the squat, and 3 reps in the bench. Week 2; 65%. Week 3:70%. Then drop back to 60% on week 4 and 65% on week 5. Use 70% on week 6. Then drop bath down again. This is a pendulum wave. This kind of wave is used because one cannot increase in speed or top strength after 3 weeks of increasing the weight. If one continues to increase the weight, the bar speed will suffer dramatically, which must not happen.
What about absolute strength? Three days separate the dynamic workout and the max effort day. The is because the major muscle groups recuperate In 72 hairs. The max effort workout is performed with the conjugate method. This allows one to lift weights of 100%+ each week. This is possible by switching exercises each week.
For example, for the squat and deadlift day, week 1, 10-inch low box with the MantaRay; week 2, bent-over good mornings; week 3, 12-inch low box with the Safety Squat bar. For the bench press, week 1, three-board press; week 2, floor press; week 3, Lightened bend press. There are many core exercises to choose from. For the Olympic lifter, week 1, snatch grip high pulls; week 2, straight leg power cleans; week 3. cleans from above the knee.
This method of training allows one to work on weak areas often overlooked by doing the classical lifts. It will also perfect form and coordination. This type of training also allows one to perform extra workouts for strength restoration, and flexibility.
With the progressive overload method, it is virtually impossible to control the volume. But, if you train at one percent range, it is easily controlled. To squat 600, we. know that a total volume of 7200 pounds is needed. This is arrived at by using a top percent of 60% and a lower percent of 50%. For example, 50% of 600 = 300 x 12 sets of 2 reps=7200 pounds. On week 3 the weight is 60% of 600 = 360 x 10 sets of 2 reps = 7200. A volume of 9600 is used to squat 800. 50% of 800 = 400 x 12 sets of 2 reps = 9600 pounds. 10 sets of 2 reps with 480 (60%) = 9600 pounds. This works for any squat of any weight. This is called flat loading. During the 3-week wave you also rotate special exercises such as glute/ham raises, pull-throughs, and the Reverse Hyper. In week 1, you are unfamiliar with the exercise that will promote a bigger squat, so the volume is understandably low. By week 3 you have grown familiar with the exercise and the volume grows.
Number of Reps for Percentage Training
Percent reps per set optimal total range
55-65 3-6 24 18-30
70-75 3-6 18 12-24
80-85 2-4 15 10-20
above 90 1-2 7 4-10
One cannot succeed by doing only the classical lifts. One will cease to make progress. The greater the lifter, the more tasks you need to stimulate progress.
Progressive gradual overload accomplishes only one goal at a time, while actually detraining the phase you just completed in as fast as 2 or 3 weeks. In addition, after a contest you must start over exactly where you started. But the system Westside has adapted from the old Soviet system allows you to build muscle mass, speed, and absolute strength, perfect form, raise your GPP, increase your flexibility, and provides restoration all year long, year after year. We raise all qualities gradually, never neglecting one for another.
I am in no way criticizing the Ph.D.s in the United Slates. It is the material in the text books that is terribly outdated and perpetuated to be the truth, when - in fact - it leads nowhere, just like my dog Jackie’s tail chasing. I suggest reading books such as Supertraining, which contains, the ideas of many well-respected foreign experts on strength qualities. This book can be purchased from Elite Fitness Systems (888-854-8806). Westside Barbell 614-276-0923
blut wump
New member
I don't see from the article where the factor of 12 comes from. I'm guessing that it comes from the optimal 24 reps for the range 50-70 taken as applied to a 50% weight. Thus 24 * .5 = 12.
If so, then why choose 50% rather than 55%, being the average of 50 and 60? Maybe you would choose that higher value if you just wanted to work a bit more? Maybe it's so as not to overwork while at the 50% mark?
If so, then why choose 50% rather than 55%, being the average of 50 and 60? Maybe you would choose that higher value if you just wanted to work a bit more? Maybe it's so as not to overwork while at the 50% mark?
10-15 (often 12-15) seems to be my best range for growth. The low reps like 5X5 dont seem to do much of anything for me in terms of growth. So Ill mix low reps in with higher reps as well to get the full spectrum of ranges. Incorporating some 5X5 was helpful in regaining much of my lost bench strength, but not in getting any stronger then I was previously. Though I like incorporating it alot into my bench routine from time to time for a change.
Singleton
New member
For some reason, I grow really well in low rep range.
I think it may be that I do progressive overload, similar to DFHT or HST, and that when I go to the 5's, the volume is less, allowing my body to catch up from the higher reps and also recover from the (new) higher intensity in the lower rep ranges.
I always do best with lower reps.
I think it may be that I do progressive overload, similar to DFHT or HST, and that when I go to the 5's, the volume is less, allowing my body to catch up from the higher reps and also recover from the (new) higher intensity in the lower rep ranges.
I always do best with lower reps.
GoldenDelicious
New member
mostly in the 6-8 range, but i do a few heavy sets everyday (ie 4 reps or less) and figure, if i can do something 5 times or more, its time to up the weight
seems to work well for me, since i have well and truly outpaced everyone in a similar position at my gym
seems to work well for me, since i have well and truly outpaced everyone in a similar position at my gym
NorgePrecision
New member
The legs like deep squats in the 6-10 rep range. Chest likes the 4-8 rep range. I switch arms every workout. Back depends on how I feel that day. It could be 4-8, it could be 10-15.
deltreefitness
New member
I read (Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research) that to stimulate muscle growth you need to use at least 60% of your max weight for that exercise and keep sets within 40-60 seconds. It's based on some studies. I'm not sure of the details but it sounds about right to me. For many exercises I can hardly break the 30 sec. mark a set but I try and it seems to work all right.
Here's a thread I made about it: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=411111
But basically I stay around 8-12. If I can do any more comfortably using proper form I up the weight as it's usually lower than the 60% of my max.
Here's a thread I made about it: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=411111
But basically I stay around 8-12. If I can do any more comfortably using proper form I up the weight as it's usually lower than the 60% of my max.
