Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

Reconsidering...

W

Weapon X

New member
Well, I've had some damn fine discussions on this board, and many of them have caused me to rethink some of my long-held beliefs.
Now, most of my beliefs have stood up just fine through all of this. But a recent thread regarding homosexuality has had a major effect on me. And I have flexed1 to thank for that.
I have been considering people like RyanH to be the main representatives of gay people. However, I now believe that most of us only see the most extreme members of the gay community, mainly because people like flexed1 don't lead flamboyant, attention-getting lifestyles. And I am sure that there are thousands of homosexual people who are just like flexed1.

Don't get me wrong - I am still Conservative. In fact, this change in heart only helps to bring me more in line with Libertarianism's views on the righst of the individual.
Now for some thoughts on related topics:

1.) The Bible: Yes, I still believe that the Bible calls homosexual conduct a sin. However, there are other sins which are also called "abominations" in the Bible, yet we do not pay so much attention to them as we do to homosexuality. Why don't we launch campaigns against adulterers and protest the blatant depiction of heterosexual adultery on television?

2.) Marriage: I believe that homsoexuals should be allowed to legally marry in the United States of America. Why? I'll tell ya:

a. Allowing Homosexuals to marry would resolve all of those stupid "domestic partnership" disputes regarding inheritances, etc.

b. Allowing homosexuals to marry would allow them to live the type of life which society obviously prefers (monogamous, settled down), which would actually remove some of the complaints people have about the homosexual life style.

c. Heterosexuals have damaged the meaning and sanctity of the institution of marriage so horribly that they should not fear that allowing gays to marry will erode it any further. Indeed, teh very desire of gay to take part in this institution implies that they take it seriously and respect it.
Would they be monogamous? Probably about as monogamous as married heterosexuals, on average. I have slept with enough heterosexual married women in my youth to know first hand that straights need some help in this area.

3.) Legal: The State or Federal government really doesn't have any business legislating any but the most basic of morality (no murder or theft, & c.)
The gov't shouldn't tell us whether we can masturbate or have sex with whomsoever we wish, so long as both parties are over the age of consent.

4.) Mental: Masturbatory as well as homosexual behaviour has been observed in the animal kingdom, most notably in primates, our closest animal relative. This leads me to believe that homosexuality may not be a human disorder or mental imbalance.

5.) Lifestyle: It is true, in my opinion, that what we see as the "homosexual lifestyle" is a lifestyle of excess and imbalance. I also believe, however, that these excesses may be due to the lack of healthy role-modeling for gays in American society. All of us heterosexuals grew up with all kinds of icons and images modelling marriage, parenthood, and healthy recreation within straight American society. But what role models have gays had?
Thsi is no excuse, but rather what I see as a possible cause for a culture that I see as harmful. Much in the same way I see African-American gangsta culture as a result of the socialisation of the urban black youth.

6.) Choice: I don't believe that I could choose a fetish at will, or give up sex with women. This leads me to think that perhaps teh homosexual preference is something that is either present at birth, or is so embedded in teh individual as to be nigh inextricable.

7.) Adoption: If the backgrounds of prospective gay adoptive parents are checked (just as prospective straight parents' are) and all other standard dsafeguards are performed, I see no reason why a gay couple could not be as good, if not better, parents than my own, who were drug using and physically abusive.

All of the above being said, I am still against preferential treatment for gays in hiring, housing, etc. I am against "hate crimes" legislation. I am for equal protection under the law based on one's humanity, not one's sexual practices.
I am also against the presentation of homosexual practices during open sex ed classes in public schools. This is mainly because a small minority of student swill end up being gay, and they should have their own resources for such education, without needing to discuss anal fissures, rimming, and fisting in front of everyone else.

Just my take. Peace out, yo.
Weapon X
 
good to see to have an open mind and can accept something when its presented to you with logic behind it (unlike RyanH). very well said.
 
I like this guy more and more.

That's the clearest that my views on this subject have ever been presented.

here's to ya Weapon_X :beer:
 
nice to see yor open to change. not every gay is flamboyant about his/her sexuality. of course that doesnt mean they dont have the right to be :rolleyes:

but its nice you can have an open mind
 
wow, and thanks. i received three e mails from folks still in the closet on this board with thanks for my stance on the issues presented. let me say to one thing I was born gay. i can't recall as far as i can recall not looking at other males. had i had the option or the ability i would be married and have kids. as it is one day i may have kids and will be a great dad but will have to fight for this. as far as marriage let me say from my standpoint i would never marry my other half. i would register as partners and want his rights to be equal to mine in varoius things we owned together. i would also have in my will that nobody in my family contest what is left for him ( i think this would never be an issue). however i will never walk down the aile with him and this union would be bonded by words between him and i and a ring. as for adoption i think my views have been expressed and everyone knows how i feel.


thanks again for keepining an open mind.
 
WOW X!!!!!!!! INCREDIBLE!! Not only did you reverse one of your views you presented some very good insight on a number of levels. I've always never really cared about other peoples sexual preference, just as long as they don't push it on me. But your logic is very valid and interesting IMO.


Looks like I have to take back the "goose stepping" comment I made about you earlier. So I take it back.

Maybe Ryanh might change his views on something like you have ......... nah.
 
Very well said Weapon X..and Flexed1.

Hopefully more people will follow your example and think about the possibility that they aren't always correct. I know i've been thinking a lot more recently about what i have been saying.
 
I also think it appropriate that I apologize to any persons reading my prior posts whom I may have insulted or hurt with my posts.

Weapon X
 
warning2.jpg
 
Weapon X

When you put it like that, in sensible, tones. A blind man can see where you're coming from. I agree with that post. It made me think logically. Flexed1 has always been a very good example of what a man should strive to present himself, regardless of sexual orientation.

Good post, I'm interested to see whether the disagreeable posts are emotional rants. At least that's about what I'd expect.
 
I'm sincerely glad you've rethought your position, but I don't appreciate your pitting Flex (good homo) against RyanH (bad homo). In fact, I wonder if one of your objectives isn't just to bash Ryan. I hope not, though several people immediately focused on that. Now Ryan is not only a commie, he's a bad homo. (Certainly not in my book.)

Nobody has an obligation to represent a sexual orientation, hetero or homo, like a PR man. I don't think more or less of heterosexuality per se because of a straight person's politics. I hardly think: "WeaponX's politics are too flamboyant, outspoken and conservative. He is therefore a bad representative of men who screw women." Put differently: You are every bit as outspoken and flamboyant as Ryan. I don't see Ryan dissing heterosexuality on that basis.

Much of your argument hinges on the notion that homosexuality needs to be normalized in monogamous relationships and re-closeted in the sense of becoming less "flamboyant" and verbal about sexual practices. Many gay people would agree with you but many would not.

Like Flex, but for probably different reasons, I'm not interested in marrying my partner of 12 years. Nor am I interested in becoming monogamous. Unlike Flex, I was happily married to a woman and I'm not convinced that homosexuality is entirely biological. And my politics make Ryan look like Ronald Reagan. I am in short a very bad rep of the kind of homosexual you approve of -- which, as far as I can tell, is someone who, apart from being gay, subscribes entirely to your own values.

Still, you've taken a step. I appreciate it but back off from Ryan. His politics are no reason to call him a bad fag.
 
i believe this board has thrown a lot of dofferent issues up in our faces and i'm glad people are (at least sometimes) looking at things rationally.

bump!~
 
weapon X:

it takes a lot of moral courage to admit in a public forum that you might have been incorrect in the past.

i support your open minded point of view in this post and agree with 95% of what you have said here.

keep your mind flexible!
 
muscle good homo bad homo is not what i think the point is about. its educating others ( from my point) that not every gay is the sterotypical that most of you think. i don't think rhyan has ever said he was gay unless i mised something. he just offers a different point of view. its your right to think folks are not born gay and i always respects someones well thought out beliefs. however as i can't you can't walk in my shoes and I yours I am telling you from as far as i can recall i watched boys. my mom would always tell me don't look at boys. this was if i recall correctly around 2 or 3. i would never deny anybody freedom of expression. i however resent some gays putting there personal agenda into the limelight to gain acceptance. i will never change my view that people respect you for who you are and what you ofer and don't judge you on who you sleep with unless you rub it in there faces. i would never dress in drag nor do i understand it but others do it and its there right. i just don't want every person to think thats what we all do. so i guess what i am saying is there is no good gay bad gay just offering an alternative opinion as to what i am as a gay male.

peace
 
musclebrains, I don't care what kind of "homo" you are, and last time I checked, RyanH was big enough to take care of himself. I wasn't pitting anyone against anyone else. I do have more respect for flexed1 than I have for RyanH, but the crux of that matter isn't sexual orientation. How about chilling out.

My point on this post was to reformulate my ideas and to make it known to people that I might have offended.

On the subject of momogamy; I believe that promiscuity is not a good thing for queers or breeders. How's that?

I'm willing to reconsider my points and beliefs, but I probably won't ever reach a point where you and I see eye to eye on social matters.

Peace out.
Weapon X
 
Permit me to quote you:

"I have been considering people like RyanH to be the main representatives of gay people. However, I now believe that most of us only see the most extreme members of the gay community, mainly because people like flexed1 don't lead flamboyant, attention-getting lifestyles. And I am sure that there are thousands of homosexual people who are just like flexed1. "

That is certainly making your consideration of sexual orientation dependent on the character of the person and you have needlessly compared Ryan to Flex, privileging the latter.

I understand it's not your main point. I want you to understand that I don't think a person's right to love should depend on whether he's flamboyant or extreme in his political positions. In other words, if every gay man were like Ryan, we'd still deserve to love whom we want.
 
flexed1 said:
muscle good homo bad homo is not what i think the point is about. its educating others ( from my point) that not every gay is the sterotypical that most of you think. i don't think rhyan has ever said he was gay unless i mised something. he just offers a different point of view. its your right to think folks are not born gay and i always respects someones well thought out beliefs. however as i can't you can't walk in my shoes and I yours I am telling you from as far as i can recall i watched boys. my mom would always tell me don't look at boys. this was if i recall correctly around 2 or 3. i would never deny anybody freedom of expression. i however resent some gays putting there personal agenda into the limelight to gain acceptance. i will never change my view that people respect you for who you are and what you ofer and don't judge you on who you sleep with unless you rub it in there faces. i would never dress in drag nor do i understand it but others do it and its there right. i just don't want every person to think thats what we all do. so i guess what i am saying is there is no good gay bad gay just offering an alternative opinion as to what i am as a gay male.

peace
Click to expand...

Agreed. But I'm sure you will understand that if we give credibility to the argument that our right to love depends on smashing falsely applied stereotypes, we are always subject to re-closeting and criticism just because a thousand dykes on bikes roar through SF or a bunch of drag queens make the news in New Orleans. Gay people, after the fact of fucking members of their own gender, do nothing straight people don't do, so we can't fairly be demonized for "rubbing" anything in anyone's face.

Hets wear fezes and drive golf carts with pink fringe in Shriners' parades. We have gay pride parades. They have a 50-percent divorce rate, mainly because of adultery. Many of us are open about not being monogamous. They get drunk and rub their sex lives in our faces on Bourbon Street. We do the same thing. We fuck in parks and so do they. There's NOTHING we do they don't do and in greater numbers.

I did not mean to suggest, by the way, that every gay person is or isn't born gay. I'm certain some probably are. I'm pretty sure I was born bisexual and moved, under certain internal and external pressures, more toward a gay identity. I'm also sure that what has come to represent "gay identity" is much less interesting to me now than it was 20 years ago....so my own orientation toward the "phenomenon" of homosexuality has shifted yet again. I do not like the "box" of contemporary homosexuality and that is why I prefer the term "queer" to "gay".
 
I think maybe we could lay off X on this thread if you guys don't mind. The man has made a major attitude change which takes a lot of balls to admit, especially if it went BIG TIME against his previous way of thinking. Not only that he made some good points (1-7). I had a change of heart on a hate crimes thread and I never admitted it so in this instance X is a bigger man than me. I'm sure you or I or whomever will find some other topic to disagree with him on.
 
As we as a society move further away from sprituality homosexuality will become increasingly a more popular "option".
(this isn't to say you can't have both)

Which BTW is quite possibly the cause for the high divorce rate as well. On that note, I've heard the divorce rate was high, but not 50%.

Whatever the statistic, as a collective we have adopted a capitalistic life style where there is always a better deal just around the corner.

This will show in the gay community as well however there are no stats to validate this claim due to lack of data. At any rate this argument for same sex marriage was brought up in defense of Ellen DeGeneres and Anne Heche. Just goes to show shit has no barriers.
 
Last edited:
I commend you on your style of argumentation much better than the parroted posts of ongoing current events.
 
flexed1, you mean for us to believe that when you were 3 and 4 you were hawken the same sex, sexually?

That's interesting to me a str8 man, cuz when I was that young girls annoyed me. I didn't really notice them until I got close to puberty. You may be close to a break through.

All I'm getten at is I doubt its genetic. Or entirely genetic, and if so it would be akin to hermaphrodites, and effeminateness. Hardly a reason in my book to change the values of the majority future generations so a minor sub culture can be more comfortable. By making it main stream and popular we have seen an expansion in homosexuals I suspect when the novelty wears off the gay populous will peak then decline. Or a new taboo will arise.

IMO I just think the the "GAY" thing is so irrelevant yet its still an issue. Like gay marriage, and parenthood issue. That abomination is so obvious is makes me wonder why they even ask.
 
Last edited:
"HAWKIN THE SAME SEX" what does that mean? should i assume if you where not looking at girls you where looking at boys? if not does that make you for one second think hmm maybe there is a gay gene? I realize your not saying anything bad but if you where not looking at girls and not looking at boys ( an assumption) that at that your time in your mind there was no difference. i have always looked at boys and as a kid my dad kept me away from the girls as that was all i played with until 10 or so ( hmm are women not gay mens best friends?) when i played sports and hung around more boys it peeked my interest even more. thats the only way i can explain it and to me its a gene your born with. i am not bi and have slept with one women. again just my thought back to you .
 
minion said:
As we as a society move further away from sprituality homosexuality will become increasingly a more popular "option".
(this isn't to say you can't have both)

Which BTW is quite possibly the cause for the high divorce rate as well. On that note, I've heard the divorce rate was high, but not 50%.

Whatever the statistic, as a collective we have adopted a capitalistic life style where there is always a better deal just around the corner.

This will show in the gay community as well however there are no stats to validate this claim due to lack of data. At any rate this argument for same sex marriage was brought up in defense of Ellen DeGeneres and Anne Heche. Just goes to show shit has no barriers.
Click to expand...

Minion,
When you refer to spirituality, are you only considering christianity? Most of my friends are very spiritual. They come from all forms of spiritual growth even christianity. I believe that above all the bible, especially the new testament, preaches the grace of god. Meaning that god loves all and will forgive all no matter what the sin.

I do not believe that homosexuality is a sin, and I believe god made me the way I am. I am also very spiritual though I do not subscribe to all christian beliefs. I believe we are all here for three things, to love, teach, and learn. It is to bad some of us fail at all three.
 
flexed1, exactly when I was 3 and 4 there was no sex. I had not the capacity to see beyond what was presented. I knew boy, girl, man, woman, cat, dog. But the sexual orintation was a non-issue. As it rightfully should be at that age.

In that respect your an oddity indeed.
 
Even infants have sexuality.

Flex's experience is quite ordinary. Some people seem to have a clearer memory of early sexual feelings. One reason many gay people may is that they have to hide their feelings in order to protect themselves. As soon as the feeling arises --as Flex demonstrates with his mother's admonition -- gay people are told to suppress it. What is ordinary for a straight person, the awakening of sexual feeling, is often a cause of trauma, shame and eventual repression (closeting) for a gay person.
 
Lets set the record straight. Homosexuality is genetic. Gay men have no choie and I hate to see them subjected to hate. Personally the thought of sex with a man is extremely repulsive, I would not do it for all the money in the world. It amazes me when "men" question my sexuality because I don't seize every opportunity to: 1) Bash gays into the ground. 2) Prove that I only think about fucking women 24/7 when I'm not actually doing it. I rarely think about sex though I have a lot it. Olive oil is the best lubricant to anyone who wonders. Works better than the little $20 "sex lubes" some of which have silicone which is bad for you. How I wish we could all just get along. Human nature...its a wonder we have existed this long! I'm so sick of reading and hearing about peoples thoughts on homosexuality EVERY time I turn around. Especially when the thoughts are so full of hate. I've always thought girls were cute but didn't have my first crush until I was 10. I struggle with women I think because I have very little in common with them though they do dominate my life.
 
Bull69 I understand spirituality comes in many packages. However if a homosexual claims Christianity and bends the rules in the process that is between him/her and their perspective God.

For the record Bull even Lucifer has spirituality, its over rated. Might as well say "team spirit". Its alot like working out its only as stong as you train it to be. There should be some restraint on everyone.
 
Last edited:
musclebrains,
"Even infants have sexuality"

-----

So you say? Let look it up shall we. According to http://www.dictionary.com
http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=sexuality

2. Concern with or interest in sexual activity.

I would hope not.

There are many things that a child should be protected from. This is one of them. Its the same as keeping them from sticking hairpens from light sockets, touching fire, running accross the street w/ out lookingh, ect, ect.
 
Before this get any more P/R get this str8, I'm not against gay people. I feel that the aspects that cross over into hetrosexual custom deserve more forethought.
 
May I be as bold to state that IMO the ultimate goal of the gay and Lez coalition is to make homosexuality mainstream. Why the urgency?

Are their rights really infringed upon so much that it warrants this attention? They claim akin to minorities maybe so, but what gay man as been sodomized by a group of NYPD with a plunger in the police station no less? Or dragged for miles with a chain from on old pickup truck until your limbs are torn off and your head rolls?
(I could go on I don't have to stop with that minority either)

What bothers me about the gay community is their constant need to affirm they're gay. (yes we know, heard the last thousand times) It just screems insecurity, and guilt. I don't hate them I actualy just think they're lame. I for one will not insult the community by coddling. Which IMO would only trivialize the issue. Furthermore I believe the blind acceptance is steeped in apathy not an actual concern.
 
minion,
WOULD BEING BEATEN THEN TIED TO A FENCE IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE AND THEN ULTIMATELY SUFFERING AND DYING SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU ARE GAY, BE EQUIVALENT TO BEING DRAGGED TO DEATH BEHIND A TRUCK??
 
I do agree that the dominant desire of the gay and lesbian coalition is to make homosexuality mainstream. Why do they think it is so important to be Boy Scout Masters? Their sexuality absolutley dominates their life...they tend to fuck like rabbits. Then complain about "lack of funding" for AIDS research. I don't care what they do in the bedroom....but I am sick of hearing about what they want EVERY time I turn around.
 
It is clear that you can not be persuaded. I am not a militant homosexual requesting seperate rights, but I do want the same rights. I think it is very ignorant of you to believe that gays are not descriminated against. There are hundreds of fag bashing each year that are mearly overlooked because they are fags. Gays lose their jobs, are overlooked for promotions, and are harrassed in the workplace simply because they are gay. I am not whining about this for myself, because I do not fit the stereotype and refuse to ever be a victim. However, I will fight for those that are to weak or scared to fight.
 
Ever stop to wonder why bother persuading anyone, if we can fundamentally coincide? Why does it have to be ALL or nothing. The Gay and Lez community could learn from the blacks, hispanics, Jews. You will never abolish prejudice to its most minute denominator it is in everyones nature. Since when is preference illegal?

I never said they weren't descriminated that would be a foolish statement. Nevertheless "I am not a militant homosexual requesting seperate rights, but I do want the same rights." as quoted Bull69.
If you really think about it from boths side this is a contradiction of terms. They could be nothing other than seperate rights. They would be the "SAME" if it weren't for the matching chromosomes.

Why should the majority have to redefine their convictions??? This is selfish IMO. It is a subtle difference I propose nothing drastic. IE: Same sex marriage=WRONG, Life Partners (w/ the same right as a conventional married couple)=CORRECT, and so on and so forth. I still think its lame though.
 
How the fuck can u say being a gay is genetic lol. That has never been proved. All though most gay men do have high soft voices and lisps but i always figured they just spoke that way cuz their fruity like that.
 
Minion,
I respected your arguments until your last ignorant post. I would never imply that if you disagree with homosexuality you are homophobic. That is illogical argument.

Bonez,
I can see that by you ignorant uninformed stereotype that you really have not met many gay men. I am positive that the majority are just as masculine and probably more masculine than you.
 
bonez said:
How the fuck can u say being a gay is genetic lol. That has never been proved. All though most gay men do have high soft voices and lisps but i always figured they just spoke that way cuz their fruity like that.
Click to expand...

wow you sound informed... such technical words.

try the studies of brains of gay men for your first hint that it's biological.
 
bonez is an ass that was established by me already. why he continues to post on gay threads shows he is a closet . i respect a person who is straight who can say i think gay sex is repulsive but have no problem with gays. that shows your thoughts are well thought out and you are secure in your sexuality. actually straight sex is something i care not to see but i still respect straight folks and many are my friends. as far as me i never stated i had sexual thoughts at 2-3 only i looked at boys in a different way. how do i explain it otherwise? i was not thinking i want to jump a boys bones at 3 but soemthing made me pay more attention. the bottom line as stated by so many is who fucking cares? we are all the same , put on earth by who knows who, and to serve who knows what purpose. we all must co exist in this world together. i don't understand folks from the middle east or there beliefs but i would never condone them for there way of thinking or living. i applaud most of you for your openess and well thought out views. you have earned my respect except bonez who's ass i would love to kick up and down the street so he can say i got whipped by a fag.
 
i'll ditto bull69... i don't know how to classify myself... i guess i'm bi curious.. since i haven't gone all the way with a woman. but i like sex with men.

i'm just open-minded and i agree with how you bridged your statement to refer to middle-eastern people. i feel the same way.
 
i dont see that happening girly man. You'd probably really wanna rape me. OH and i love how fags say that anyone that doesnt like em must be a closet ohhhhhh. ANd i think its great that u have the curtesy to not be offended by straight people i mean even though its natural and without people being straight u couldnt be here. Not to mention the fact that animals are straight and we have a maternal and paternal instincts as humans. Ya and your only bi smallmovesal cuz its fashionable. Like 90% of the girls i know will kiss if i ask em to.
 
Last edited:
well i've felt that way since i was about 12 at a catholic school.. so that's not very fashionable... i have mostly kept my feelings to myself.

i guess ignorance is bliss for you bonez... so why bother trying to post on every gay thread? what do you personally get out of it?
 
and just what am i ignorant about? Oh and from my experience catholic school girls are the biggest sluts so that doesnt mean shit.
 
smallmovesal said:
i'll ditto bull69... i don't know how to classify myself... i guess i'm bi curious.. since i haven't gone all the way with a woman. but i like sex with men.

i'm just open-minded and i agree with how you bridged your statement to refer to middle-eastern people. i feel the same way.
Click to expand...


i thought you said you were a virgin?
 
it was a late night silly joke that i said i was kidding about later in that thread... winny and salami are just really gullible.
 
smallmovesal said:
it was a late night silly joke that i said i was kidding about later in that thread... winny and salami are just really gullible.
Click to expand...


my bad, i didnt finish the whole thread, it was late.
 
Minion, I think many gay people feel that since discrimination does exist, there has to be some kind of outward, even vocal response to it, or it will surely continue. And I think there is merit to that. One could argue all day about the degree of that response, but that's not really my point. You really can't expect gay people to just sit quietly and not make waves.

I absolutely agree with you that prejudice is human nature. It will always be there.
 
BONEZ IN FRONT OF THIS ENTIRE BOARD TEL ME WHERE TO MEET YOU AND I PROMISE I WILL BE THERE. YOU CAN THAN SAY ALL YOU WANT TO MY FACE. TAKE THE CHALLENGE AND BACK YOUR WORDS UP.


I AM SERIOUS.
 
BONEZ I SEE YOUR IN NEW YORK MY HOME TOWN. YOU'LL BE EASY TO FIND SO LET ME COME TO YOU AND WE CAN "TALK". KEEP IN MIND MANY GAYS WORK FOR TIME WARNER AND I HAVE MANY FRIENDS.
 
He's pulled this shit before. He adds no value to the baord you are correct. However some folks need to be put into place and trust me i will do so.
 
Bonez does not accept pms but sends them. You don't scare me and you have on this post as well as others made stupid ass remarks opening yourself up. If your so tough say it to my face. sorry you now feel threatened as you said in your pm. learn to speak with respect and you'll be treated with it. you have responded to another post which i saved so you have brought this upon yourself. open up your pm and i will be more than happy to discus this others wise shut up.
 
minion said:
musclebrains,
"Even infants have sexuality"

-----

So you say? Let look it up shall we. According to http://www.dictionary.com
http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=sexuality

2. Concern with or interest in sexual activity.

I would hope not.

There are many things that a child should be protected from. This is one of them. Its the same as keeping them from sticking hairpens from light sockets, touching fire, running accross the street w/ out lookingh, ect, ect.
Click to expand...

I did not say infants should have sex. I said they have sexuality, meaning they experience sexual/genital pleasure. Tickle a baby's cock and it grows hard. There is a huge tradition of Rennaissance painting of the saints teasing the dick of the infant Jesus. Many of Freud's theories are predicated on the idea of infant sexuality.

One of the theories of homosexuality's origin is that it's rooted in a sexual triangle involving the mother, father and child (the Oedipus Complex). It's a dubious idea but it's arguably an effort to explain the easily demonstrable sexuality of infants and children.
 
Last edited:
minion said:
Are their rights really infringed upon so much that it warrants this attention? They claim akin to minorities maybe so, but what gay man as been sodomized by a group of NYPD with a plunger in the police station no less? Or dragged for miles with a chain from on old pickup truck until your limbs are torn off and your head rolls?
(I could go on I don't have to stop with that minority either)

What bothers me about the gay community is their constant need to affirm they're gay. (yes we know, heard the last thousand times) It just screems insecurity, and guilt. I don't hate them I actualy just think they're lame. I for one will not insult the community by coddling. Which IMO would only trivialize the issue. Furthermore I believe the blind acceptance is steeped in apathy not an actual concern.
Click to expand...

Matthew Shepard and Billy Jack Gaither for two recent examples were muderously tortured for being gay. Did you not read about them?

Your second paragraph makes no sense to me but we appreciate that, instead of hating us, you find us lame. I think that you, similarly, are not stupid, just a bit lame-brained. Does that make yoiu feel better?

I thought it would.
 
Next it will be, "IF YOU DON'T SMOKE ROPE, YOU'RE A HOMOPHOBE!!!"
LOL



Bull69 my previous comment was ment to lighten the mood of this hopeless SLANTED thread.

Bonez has some valid and discussion worhty points, I think its hipocritical to turn him away but demand YOUR social acceptance.
The road to understanding is a two way street, no matter how repulsed you may be.

Bonez-----
"Not to mention the fact that animals are straight and we have a maternal and paternal instincts as humans. Ya and your only bi smallmovesal cuz its fashionable. Like 90% of the girls i know will kiss if i ask em to."

Both points are valid Bones, I acknowledge them. Also I would like to add that in the future this trend that as set in the females will transcend that gender. Hence my belife that homosexuality is not ENTIRELY genetic.
 
I am not demanding socail acceptance so that comments was not aimed at me I am sure. Everyone has valid points here. Bonez has made a point in another thread of attacking gays in a way that is not accepatble. He continues to egg on in this post as well. Though some of his points maybe valid he will never gain respect as his lack of knowledge in general far exceeds his ability to make those points. It all comes down to respect for each other. You don't need to agree or understand someones lifestyle or beleifs. but in the same token and I am not saying you we have no right to hate or judge another human regardless of sex, creed, religion, beleifs, or anything else. We will all be judged if thats the case by whomever you think judges you. ( in my case god)
 
musclebrains, so you didn't understand the 2nd paragraph huh?

Look I'm not a "gay basher" I just feel they don't warrant the attention and subsequent solicitation. To me a gay person is just a person that would rather sleep with the same sex. I don't understand it, by why does the gay community evangelize so? I follow the law and that's all that should matter, you could be a homsexual, satanist, beastial necropheliac for all I care. So long as the law is followed were kewl.

Dig?

Just because I think its lame dosn't mean you must contend for my confirmation, its an insecure notion. You can call me whatever you want at the end of the day my ego will still be intact becase I'm "comfortable with my sexuality". Are you? If so why are you vying with the hetro's?

If your gay then be gay, but be humble. No one likes a fanatic anything.
 
Last edited:
minion said:
gymtime, I listed two in that post you made reference to. Take your pick. Challenge them if you like.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, are these the points you're referring to?

Bonez-----
"Not to mention the fact that animals are straight and we have a maternal and paternal instincts as humans. Ya and your only bi smallmovesal cuz its fashionable. Like 90% of the girls i know will kiss if i ask em to."
 
Re: weapon X:

rnch said:
it takes a lot of moral courage to admit in a public forum that you might have been incorrect in the past.

i support your open minded point of view in this post and agree with 95% of what you have said here.

keep your mind flexible!
Click to expand...
Ditto. Extremely well and eloquently expressed.
 
Flexed, perhaps you and others can give me some insight into your views on this topic...

One thing that has continued to bother me thoughout is this:

What's with all the gay pride, rainbow stickers, etc...?

The party line statement is that heterosexuals don't "flaunt" it, I don't see bumperstickers that say "Hetero and proud!" Why do some homosexuals appear to feel such a need to shove it in everybody's face? I'm not saying "don't ask, don't tell", that's bullshit, but why this seeming overcompensation?

What do you think about this?
 
re:thebabydoc

thank you for your kind words and compliments.



to all:

why is everyone so hung up on this gay/straight sex issue? what are you so terrified of?

are you afraid that if you are exposed to something other that what was drilled into you head by pious clergymen and terrified homophobic heterosexuals tht you will "turn" gay?

the world is what it is, and you are what you are.

you love........who you love.

in your heart of hearts, does it matter that you and the person you have feelings for for is gay or straight?

recent world events should make us all realize that there is too much hatred and intolerance and misunderstanding going on on this planet. warmth, affection and true love is nearly impossible to find, no matter in what form it appears to you in. treasure and enjoy what you are fortunate to have offered to you.
 
I find it interesting (as some in this thread have alluded to) that society choses to highlight the "bad homos" and this is where the stereotypes have come from. While I am not entirely comfortable with the idea and I don't wish to/can't really picture 2 men making "love", that dosen't exclude the possibility that it is possible. Why can I picture 2 women making love? This is the ABSOLUTE PROOF that society has put these images into our heads from childhood. It's way more than a double standard.

rnch, once again right on the mark, why should we care what other people are doing if it makes them feel good and harms no one? I 100,000% hold fast that what people do in the privacy of their home, etc... is their own business and should be free from judgement.
 
Weapon X said:
1.) The Bible: Yes, I still believe that the Bible calls homosexual conduct a sin. However, there are other sins which are also called "abominations" in the Bible, yet we do not pay so much attention to them as we do to homosexuality. Why don't we launch campaigns against adulterers and protest the blatant depiction of heterosexual adultery on television?

2.) Marriage: I believe that homsoexuals should be allowed to legally marry in the United States of America. Why? I'll tell ya:
Click to expand...


Just wanted to say a little something here---I have had friends who were gay so dont take this wrong.

To answer the question above about the blatant depiiction of adultry on television---I say, it is just as wrong and should be attacked---but it wont will it. That dont make it right.

I dont believe in homosexual mariage---its condoning a deviant lifestyle. Its based on a relationship that is an abomination to the original intent of sex, just as infedelity is.

These are my opinions about what is right and wrong--not direct hatred toward homosexual folks------God loves us, He just hates our sin and does not smile upon living a sinful lifestyle.

I understand that most will disagree. Thats cool. Just respect my beliefes---'cause i respect yours.
 
Re: Re: Reconsidering...

huntmaster said:



Just wanted to say a little something here---I have had friends who were gay so dont take this wrong.

To answer the question above about the blatant depiiction of adultry on television---I say, it is just as wrong and should be attacked---but it wont will it. That dont make it right.

I dont believe in homosexual mariage---its condoning a deviant lifestyle. Its based on a relationship that is an abomination to the original intent of sex, just as infedelity is.

These are my opinions about what is right and wrong--not direct hatred toward homosexual folks------God loves us, He just hates our sin and does not smile upon living a sinful lifestyle.

I understand that most will disagree. Thats cool. Just respect my beliefes---'cause i respect yours.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I feel so much better knowing god hates what I do and not me. It isn't easy being an abomination. It's good to know that whether I commit sodomy with a man or cheat on a wife, I'm doing effectively the same thing. People like you, who can't think and can't spell, really do deserve respect.
 
Re: Re: Re: Reconsidering...

musclebrains said:


Thank you. I feel so much better knowing god hates what I do and not me. It isn't easy being an abomination. It's good to know that whether I commit sodomy with a man or cheat on a wife, I'm doing effectively the same thing. People like you, who can't think and can't spell, really do deserve respect.
Click to expand...


hey like he said..those are his beliefs, now respect them.
 
Ah musclebrains, once again your delivery has totally outshined your point. Why does everyone who disagrees with you get nailed on their spelling or called stupid?

I disagree with the guy too, but I respect the fact that he didn't feel the need to bash anyone to get them across. Which I'm sure you will do to me now, as you've done in the past.
 
Last edited:
"Just because I think its lame dosn't mean you must contend for my confirmation, its an insecure notion. You can call me whatever you want at the end of the day my ego will still be intact becase I'm "comfortable with my sexuality". Are you? If so why are you vying with the hetro's?

If your gay then be gay, but be humble. No one likes a fanatic anything."

-----[As quoted by me.]

I would also like to add this is a good topic for hetro's to engage simply because of the ramifications implied by the homosexual community.

It is a matter of simple checks and balances. The youth are very impressionable and by default want to rebel, and will inheritably have feelings of inadequacy. The homosexual variable will continue to complicate the labor of adolescence.

I also believe that it is the aim of the homosexual community to change current values and morality as we know it today. This however is a hidden agenda, this should be apparent by the nature of the ploy. "Them versus us", stand point is not the reality of the issue.

The reality is hetrosexuality is mainstream for a reason. To give reference to nature's anomaly's in the defense of homosexuality should be testament to the truth. This is obvious and self explainatory.

Once again allow me to reiterate I'm not a "gay basher" just because I disagree. We all should exercise our rights, and I feel the homosexual community has done a good job at bringing forth their message. I do not condone violence against the gay community however I do feel their message has gone beyond what is necessary. I think that the agenda has changed and the goal is to contend against the hetrosexual mainstream. Case in point two gay pride parades a year at Disney World, why I ask is that appropriate?

It went from "what two adults do in the privacy of their own home is no ones elses business" to excessive exploitation and tacky overexposure. Therein is my dilema and reasoning for a intelligent opposition, in the manner of tack and fairness.
 
gymtime said:
Ah musclebrains, once again your delivery has totally outshined your point. Why does everyone who disagrees with you get nailed on their spelling or called stupid?

I disagree with the guy too, but I respect the fact that he didn't feel the need to bash anyone to get them across. Which I'm sure you will do to me now, as you've done in the past.
Click to expand...

Yes, I will. It's total BS from you, as usual. If he calls my love an abomination, I feel just fine calling him stupid -- the same way I lashed back in the other thread for being classed with necrophiliacs.

I wish you would explain why it's okay to call someone's love an abomination but not call that person's beliefs stupid.

Could it have anything to do with your own sympathies?
 
minion said:
"Just because I think its lame dosn't mean you must contend for my confirmation, its an insecure notion. You can call me whatever you want at the end of the day my ego will still be intact becase I'm "comfortable with my sexuality". Are you? If so why are you vying with the hetro's?

If your gay then be gay, but be humble. No one likes a fanatic anything."

-----[As quoted by me.]

I would also like to add this is a good topic for hetro's to engage simply because of the ramifications implied by the homosexual community.

It is a matter of simple checks and balances. The youth are very impressionable and by default want to rebel, and will inheritably have feelings of inadequacy. The homosexual variable will continue to complicate the labor of adolescence.

I also believe that it is the aim of the homosexual community to change current values and morality as we know it today. This however is a hidden agenda, this should be apparent by the nature of the ploy. "Them versus us", stand point is not the reality of the issue.

The reality is hetrosexuality is mainstream for a reason. To give reference to nature's anomaly's in the defense of homosexuality should be testament to the truth. This is obvious and self explainatory.

Once again allow me to reiterate I'm not a "gay basher" just because I disagree. We all should exercise our rights, and I feel the homosexual community has done a good job at bringing forth their message. I do not condone violence against the gay community however I do feel their message has gone beyond what is necessary. I think that the agenda has changed and the goal is to contend against the hetrosexual mainstream. Case in point two gay pride parades a year at Disney World, why I ask is that appropriate?

It went from "what two adults do in the privacy of their own home is no ones elses business" to excessive exploitation and tacky overexposure. Therein is my dilema and reasoning for a intelligent opposition, in the manner of tack and fairness.
Click to expand...

*Applauding* Utterly brilliant post. I respect every bit of it. Yes, you're right, we're trying to overthrow heterosexuality. It doesn't matter that you don't say how or what in hell that means. It doesn't matter that you don't say what our "agenda" is in "contending against the heterosexual mainstream." It doesn't matter that we have to defend having two parades at Disney World whereas you feel no obligation to say why it matters.

It doesn't matter that you don't define "tacky overexposure." It doesn't matter that "excessive exploitation" has no cited context. (One has the VAGUE suspicion that this boils down to the generalization of your personal taste.) And it doesn't matter that these vague accusations become the source of your "dilema and reasoning for a intelligent opposition."
 
He never once called "your love" an abomonation. Yes, he said homosexuality was an abomination because that's what the Bible says. So the hell what? He has his opinions and stated them. You chose to take them personally. He directed them at no one.

By your logic, everyone who disagrees with you is a moron. Anyone who thinks differently than you do about homosexuality is an idiot.

Anyone on this board who actually attacks you personally, you can flame to your hearts content. You'll get no hassles from me. But you sit here and shit on everyone who disagrees with you and you wonder why you get labelled as a reactionary.

If you actually think I am supporting someone comparing you to a necrophiliac, or someone saying that you can't love whomever you like, you're just wrong. I'm not. All I'm saying is that if you expect people to respect your views, you need to at the very least not piss all over them when they voice theirs. (Not that I expect that to actually ever happen.)

Enjoy your righteous rage musclebrains. I pretty much wouldn't recognize you without it.
 
musclebrains, your funny! LOL

Understanding is a two way street. I understand your perspective now relect. You have got to do better than this.
-----

"*Applauding* Utterly brilliant post. I respect every bit of it. Yes, you're right, we're trying to overthrow heterosexuality. It doesn't matter that you don't say how or what in hell that means. It doesn't matter that you don't say what our "agenda" is in "contending against the heterosexual mainstream." It doesn't matter that we have to defend having two parades at Disney World whereas you feel no obligation to say why it matters.

It doesn't matter that you don't define "tacky overexposure." It doesn't matter that "excessive exploitation" has no cited context. (One has the VAGUE suspicion that this boils down to the generalization of your personal taste.) And it doesn't matter that these vague accusations become the source of your "dilema and reasoning for a intelligent opposition."
 
gymtime said:
He never once called "your love" an abomonation. Yes, he said homosexuality was an abomination because that's what the Bible says. So the hell what? He has his opinions and stated them. You chose to take them personally. He directed them at no one.

By your logic, everyone who disagrees with you is a moron. Anyone who thinks differently than you do about homosexuality is an idiot.

Anyone on this board who actually attacks you personally, you can flame to your hearts content. You'll get no hassles from me. But you sit here and shit on everyone who disagrees with you and you wonder why you get labelled as a reactionary.

If you actually think I am supporting someone comparing you to a necrophiliac, or someone saying that you can't love whomever you like, you're just wrong. I'm not. All I'm saying is that if you expect people to respect your views, you need to at the very least not piss all over them when they voice theirs. (Not that I expect that to actually ever happen.)

Enjoy your righteous rage musclebrains. I pretty much wouldn't recognize you without it.
Click to expand...

Oh bull. I guess you're going to tell me if someone posts a "nigger-bashing" thread, African Americans aren't going to take it personally. Please, you comfort yourself by calling me reactionary. The truth is that your arguments are inconsistent to say the least. For example, I notice that you didn't diss Flex for calling Bonez an ass (and more), a much more direct insult than I made, since I referred to Minion's beliefs, not his person. In that sense, my response was no different from his calling homsexuality an abomination.

Save your self-righteous and selective grandstanding for Afghanistan, gymtime.
 
Last edited:
Musclebrains, just read my post all of your evasive tactics only lend to elude you from the point.

Challenge me if you disagree. I made several references for my case.
 
musclebrains said:


Oh bull. I guess you're going to tell me if someone posts a "nigger-bashing" thread, African Americans aren't going to take it personally. Please, you comfort yourself by calling me reactionary. The truth is that your arguments are inconsistent to say the leat. For example, I notice that you didn't diss Flex for calling Bonez an ass (and more), a much more direct insult than I made, since I referred to Minion's beliefs, not his person. In that sense, my response was no different from his calling homsexuality an abomination.

Save your self-righteous and selective grandstanding for Afghanistan, gymtime.
Click to expand...

See??:D

First of all, Bonez is an idiot and deserves whatever he gets. He uses more unprovoked insults than you do. And that's saying quite a bit.

And my arguements are never inconsistent. I've ALWAYS thought you were kind of a whiner. You have yet to have a civil discussion with anyone on this board. That's all the evidence I need.

But I like you musclebrains. And you will remain my little ball of yarn for a while. And I will resist the temptation to point out all your spelling errors in your last post becuase, well because I'm feeling selfless and altruistic today. Now I'm off to do some grandstanding. :)
 
minion said:
Musclebrains, just read my post all of your evasive tactics only lend to elude you from the point.

Challenge me if you disagree. I made several references for my case.
Click to expand...

Minion, I wish you luck with that bro. It's a taller order than you think.
 
gymtime said:


See??:D

First of all, Bonez is an idiot and deserves whatever he gets. He uses more unprovoked insults than you do. And that's saying quite a bit.

And my arguements are never inconsistent. I've ALWAYS thought you were kind of a whiner. You have yet to have a civil discussion with anyone on this board. That's all the evidence I need.

But I like you musclebrains. And you will remain my little ball of yarn for a while. And I will resist the temptation to point out all your spelling errors in your last post becuase, well because I'm feeling selfless and altruistic today. Now I'm off to do some grandstanding. :)
Click to expand...

Don't flatter yourself. Anyone who claims to have the right to call someone an idiot while denying someone the right to call someone else's beliefs stupid has just hung himself with his own "yarn." I've already demonstrated that you routinely insult people and then criticize others for your own behavior. There's a word for it. I'm sure you know it.

Have a nice evening, Mr. My Insults are More Accetable than Yours.
 
gymtime said:


Minion, I wish you luck with that bro. It's a taller order than you think.
Click to expand...

There's gymtime, not insulting again.

Minion, what are you talking about? I answered your post. It is a series of allegations without concrete meanings. You speak of an agenda, of an effort to overtake heterosexuality, etc. I LITERALLY do not know what you're talking about.

Although Gymtime has deigned to speak for me, I assure you that I think you have the "right" to your beliefs but your right does not obligate me to respect the content associated with your right.

Yes, I think your beliefs are ill-informed and ignorant. To on the one hand say you are not against gay people and on the other hand to call their love an abomination, to engage in that widely discredited and specious argument that attempts to separate the sin from the sinner (as Gymtime selectively tries to do in the question of insult) is just a replay of the kinds of arguments we heard regarding black people 30 years ago.

Identical: "I don't have anything against black people," people said, "although they are an abomination, according to the story of Ham in the Bible, but, nice as I am about this, why do they have to try to overtake society? Why do they want special rights -- like drinking from a water fountain or having equal access to housing?"

Honestly, I am too old for this. It is an identical replay, right down to the chastisement of the object of prejudice (gay or black) for his anger, as if politeness were merited when you are being told you are by your nature a creature of sin and inferiority who asks too much by asking for equality. If you think gay people are asking for more than equality, provide some evidence instead of some phrases without concrete meaning.
 
Last edited:
There is little correlation between being a black man and being a gay man.

Keep it in context, this is about sex, not race.

If you think about what you are implying I think you will see the error of that proposition.
 
minion said:
There is little correlation between being a black man and being a gay man.

Keep it in context, this is about sex, not race.

If you think about what you are implying I think you will see the error of that proposition.
Click to expand...

No, I am talking about the structure of your argument in relationship to a minority seeking equality before the dominant culture.

If you wish to say it is merely accidental, a coincidence, that your arguments are identical to those of people who opposed the Civil Rights movment, fine. If you think their similarity to the opposition directed at Jews (trying to overtake the economy!) in Europe is just a remarkable coincidence, fine. (Read Hannah Arendt.)

You call me evasive? You simply ignore the question of your argument's structural integrity with the statement that skin color is different from sexual orientation. That's evasive.

In any case, I really don't have the wish to argue this with you. I do not respect your position -- yes you have every right to it -- but it is clear you are not going to change. And I am certainly not going to agree that gay people have some weird agenda of overtaking heterosexuality.
 
I accept you as a person with the right to do as you wish so long as my rights are not infringed upon. What more could you ask for?

What gives you the right to be the only one allowed to take offense?
What gives you the right to take my rights away?
Why does my argument have less merit that yours?

"Compromise" essential. This all or nothing won't do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Swcc
🔥 Swcc intro 🔥
Replies
6
Views
423
the_alcatraz
the_alcatraz
UGL OZ
Platinum Supplier [UGL OZ] Back In Stock: Mast E, Mast P, Rip Blend
Replies
7
Views
1K
abolone
abolone
4
FAKE Pfizer Genotropin Napsgear
Replies
16
Views
2K
jasonhill800
jasonhill800
Golden_Circle
Approved Log 2025 Testosterone + Masteron Cruise Phase Log
2
Replies
112
Views
11K
the_alcatraz
the_alcatraz
Hog.
Approved Log 2025 Growth Phase - Test Eq NPP Masteron Cycle - IFBB Debut Log
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Replies
906
Views
70K
MUSTANG_18
MUSTANG_18
Top Bottom