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almost-pro

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how many of you use cocaine on a regular basis? I have a friend that uses 3-4x a week and i've been trying to get him off of it but I think it has him by the balls. I don't know alot about it personally but I do know its catabolic. Is it bad on the heart for someone to use it this often? He told me he does about 2grams a week. is that alot?
 
I've got a buddy that does about an 8ball over the weekend, and random lines here and there while at work. I gave up years ago trying to get him to stop.
 
PuddleMonkey said:
I've got a buddy that does about an 8ball over the weekend, and random lines here and there while at work. I gave up years ago trying to get him to stop.

i hate to give up on him but i feel like im wasting my breath...... i just don't want to lose him as he is a good friend. from what i've read on the net, its not alot that he's using per week.. but i also have a feeling he is lying about the amounts. either way, i am sure cocaine is bad on your heart.. i just have no clue how to help him and it honestly burdens me.
 
don't even bother trying to get someone off coke, it doesn't work that way bro
 
almost-pro said:
i hate to give up on him but i feel like im wasting my breath...... i just don't want to lose him as he is a good friend. from what i've read on the net, its not alot that he's using per week.. but i also have a feeling he is lying about the amounts. either way, i am sure cocaine is bad on your heart.. i just have no clue how to help him and it honestly burdens me.

edit*
 
almost-pro said:
i hate to give up on him but i feel like im wasting my breath...... i just don't want to lose him as he is a good friend. from what i've read on the net, its not alot that he's using per week.. but i also have a feeling he is lying about the amounts. either way, i am sure cocaine is bad on your heart.. i just have no clue how to help him and it honestly burdens me.


Fuck yes he's lying
 
A guy who I went to high school died last year from a heroin overdose. Loved ones tried to do an intervention. It failed. Some people need to learn the hard way. I hate to say it but that is how it goes.
 
justinjones1963 said:
A guy who I went to high school died last year from a heroin overdose. Loved ones tried to do an intervention. It failed. Some people need to learn the hard way. I hate to say it but that is how it goes.


but as you said... the "hard way" could be death. it sucks to know that. does anyone think that if i say down and talked to him and basically said i can't be his friend anymore as long as he chooses to ruin his life - is that a bad idea?
 
justinjones1963 said:
A guy who I went to high school died last year from a heroin overdose. Loved ones tried to do an intervention. It failed. Some people need to learn the hard way. I hate to say it but that is how it goes.


exactamondo
 
that is a lot of coke to be going through. eventually it will ruin his nose.
 
haha one of my buddies use to sell it and he said his whole senior year of high school went 'up his nose'.
As far as being catabolic ... I think that the side effect from coke *loss of appetite* makes you not eat, therefor losing muscle and fat.

It's def bad on your cardiovascular system, as you are stimulating your heart... and it's litteraly tweaking out.
There have been numberous counts of Stroke, Heart attack, and random combustion related to cocaine.

If he's a smart guy he'll realize its dumb after a while and quit. As for you going out of your way and trying to hault his cane abuse.... it's worthless.. Just make fun of him.. thats what got me to stop.

peer presure his way out of it, don't mommy him.... it'll only want to make him do it more imo
 
Put it this way you dont pull someone off beer concain weed, even food addicts, people that are addcits have to find their own way out , they have to want out or come to you for help
 
Just don't use cocaine and come to the emergency department when you have your chest pain and try to hide the fact you're using it.

Happened yet again last night. When I asked if she used drugs I was told no. I was suspicious because her blood pressure and heart rate were through the roof. Sneaked in a urine tox analysis when she had to urinate and guess who was positive for cocaine?

When I confronted her with it, she adamantly denied it. Then finally she admitted to doing four lines of coke.

Had she admitted that crap an hour earlier she would have been treated more appropriately instead of her and her husband accusing me of not figuring out what's going on with her and demanding to know what is causing her pain. Well guess what, it's the cocaine you did that's causing your pain. A little bit of benzos and her pain went away. Would have done that sooner had she actually admitted to using.

Rule number one in medicine: patients lie. Rule number one for the patients, always be honest to your physician. I could care less if she used coke. I'd rather treat her instead of trying to play Sherlock Holmes and try to find out the hard way.
 
Just accept your friend as is, and hope for the best.
I'd never trust anyone who uses coke, meth, x, crack, ect. with money, (or any woman with my heart) but otherwise I wouldn't be too worried.
The average (key word) person can survive decades of health abuse and still maintain a semblence of normalacy.
 
swatdoc said:
Just don't use cocaine and come to the emergency department when you have your chest pain and try to hide the fact you're using it.

Happened yet again last night. When I asked if she used drugs I was told no. I was suspicious because her blood pressure and heart rate were through the roof. Sneaked in a urine tox analysis when she had to urinate and guess who was positive for cocaine?

When I confronted her with it, she adamantly denied it. Then finally she admitted to doing four lines of coke.

Had she admitted that crap an hour earlier she would have been treated more appropriately instead of her and her husband accusing me of not figuring out what's going on with her and demanding to know what is causing her pain. Well guess what, it's the cocaine you did that's causing your pain. A little bit of benzos and her pain went away. Would have done that sooner had she actually admitted to using.

Rule number one in medicine: patients lie. Rule number one for the patients, always be honest to your physician. I could care less if she used coke. I'd rather treat her instead of trying to play Sherlock Holmes and try to find out the hard way.



good post and good to know

I think the patients may be scared if they tell you are doing drugs it may become a Legal issue, some would rather be in rough shape then face Johnny law.

it happend to me (much less..well maybe) I was 18. I had 3 public boozing tickets and I was looking at a 4th (within 6 months) I would be kicked out of school, so I just sucked it up and went to bed, my roommate thought I was going to choke on my puke so he wanted to take me the hosptial but I told him no as I was going to be kicked out of school
 
2 grams over aweek isn't a whole lot, i have done that on a nite more than a few times. but if he is doing 2 g's every week for a while then it is a problem. a friend of mine was addicted for awhile, he ended up losing 40-50 lbs ina month. then all of a sudden he just stopped. if you friend is going to stop it is really up to him to want to stop. other than that, he probly won't stop
 
chaos13 said:
2 grams over aweek isn't a whole lot, i have done that on a nite more than a few times. but if he is doing 2 g's every week for a while then it is a problem. a friend of mine was addicted for awhile, he ended up losing 40-50 lbs ina month. then all of a sudden he just stopped. if you friend is going to stop it is really up to him to want to stop. other than that, he probly won't stop



Agreed. 2 gm/s in a week isn't life threatening, but definetly indicative of a problem if it's 'normal'....

As far as people just 'stopping', that seems normal to me... I did myself. I don't understand addiction to the point of needing help - if you know it's so bad you think you may need help - I can't fathom not just being able to control your self. Don't buy any. Don't be around where it's being used. Don't hang out with people that use, etc. Seems easy to me.
 
Phaded said:
benzo's and coke is a deadly combo aint it?

Not especially. I mean, you're just mixing two drugs with seperate effects, but it ain't exactly a speedball or anything. The two don't create a toxic byproduct like cocaethylene or anything, if that's what you were wondering.

Benzos are becoming a staple for the comedown of pretty much all stimulant abuse nowadays, which undoubtedly creates another addictive potential...



:cow:
 
jon1320 said:
It's def bad on your cardiovascular system

Very, very bad on the CV system. This is often ignored by users, and is one of the most dangerous -- and deadly -- concerns.



:cow:
 
samoth said:
Very, very bad on the CV system. This is often ignored by users, and is one of the most dangerous -- and deadly -- concerns.



:cow:


Why is it so rough on your CV system?

You'd think it would be like a CV workout... gets things pumping.

But i've heard that when heart tissue comes in contact with coke it kills cells, but that seems like anti-drug propaganda to me.
 
jh1 said:
Why is it so rough on your CV system?

There's plenty of research out there on the CV damage it and other stims can cause, but the details are over my head. The CV system is comprised of much more than just the heart tissue. Maybe Swatdoc can put it into better words.



:cow:
 
samoth said:
There's plenty of research out there on the CV damage it and other stims can cause, but the details are over my head. The CV system is comprised of much more than just the heart tissue. Maybe Swatdoc can put it into better words.



:cow:



Yea. I'd like to see that research, cause seems like there are alot of claims about drugs out there that are clearly anti-drug propaganda.
 
jh1 said:
Yea. I'd like to see that research, cause seems like there are alot of claims about drugs out there that are clearly anti-drug propaganda.

It's there for every stimulant and many other chemicals as well, recs and pharms alike. Saying "it's bad for the heart" is just the tip of a giant iceburg. Tatanya seems to know quite a bit of human biology, so she might have some knowledge here. I totally don't have much of an understanding in this area, and I'd like to read some info as well.



:cow:
 
[snip]Cardiovascular effects

Cocaine causes vasoconstriction by preventing the reuptake of catecholamines in the central nervous system and stimulating the release of norepinephrine from adrenergic nerve terminals. These effects result in increased myocardial oxygen demand and coronary artery spasm. This causes roughly a 10% decrease in the caliber of large epicardial vessels and may progress to myocardial infarction, especially in territories of diminished coronary reserve and narrowed arteries. This effect is of increased importance in the chronic user because the repeated use of cocaine results in accelerated coronary atherosclerosis and increased platelet aggregation. With chronic use, dopamine stores in peripheral nerve terminals are depleted. When this store depletion is coupled with cardiovascular sensitivity to catecholamines, a variant anginalike syndrome with ST elevations may develop during cocaine withdrawal.

The chronic use of cocaine is also associated with multiple foci of myocarditis, fibrosis, contraction band necrosis, hypertrophy with inefficient oxygen use, and alterations in the genetic material of the myocytes.

Dysrhythmias are the most common cause of death in patients who are acutely intoxicated. The type of arrhythmia that develops depends on numerous factors. Bradycardia may be secondary to stimulation of vagal nuclei of the brain, myocardial infarction, and acidosis. Tachycardia may be secondary to the ability of cocaine to stimulate central and peripheral sympathetic systems, hypoxia, acidosis, and other factors. The quinidinelike effects of cocaine result in a number of intraventricular conduction abnormalities, including widening of the electrocardiographic wave (QRS) and QTc, as well as negative inotropic and chronotropic effects.

Aortic dissection is a known complication of cocaine use and is presumably due to the increases in shear forces on the vascular wall produced by the drug.

Acidemia, which is a common complication of acute toxicity, may also cause conduction delays and depress myocardial contractility. [/snip]

Interesting article (long): http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic400.htm



:cow:
 
Cardiac

Chest pain: Chest pain is the most frequent cocaine-related symptom and constitutes approximately 40% of cocaine-related emergency department visits. Chest pain following cocaine use may be due to a number of causes, including those directly attributable to the effects of cocaine, such as myocardial infarction and aortic dissection, and causes due to complications of the route of administration. For example, inhalation of cocaine, resulting in pneumomediastinum and pneumothorax, and intravenous injection, resulting in septic emboli, may all manifest as chest pain and other cardiopulmonary symptoms.

The incidence of cocaine-associated myocardial infarction has been found to range from 0-31% in retrospective studies of patients who present to the emergency department with chest pain following cocaine use. The Cocaine Associated Chest Pain (COCHPA) trial has been the largest prospective multicenter study. That study determined the incidence to be 6%. The pain is frequently described as substernal pressurelike discomfort and is associated with shortness of breath and diaphoresis. Patients who are affected are usually young males (aged 19-40 y) who smoke cigarettes and repetitively use cocaine. Most commonly, the chest pain occurs 60 minutes after use and persists for about 120 minutes, but the period of cocaine-ischemia may persist for as long as 2 weeks following cessation of cocaine use. Atypical presentations of myocardial infarction are also very common in the cocaine-using population.

Respiratory: Shortness of breath, like chest pain, is a frequent symptom that brings patients who use cocaine to the emergency department and may be due to a number of cardiopulmonary processes. Cocaine smoking is associated with acute exacerbations of asthma, bronchiolitis obliterans, cardiogenic and noncardiogenic pulmonary edema, interstitial pneumonitis, pulmonary vascular hypertension, pulmonary hemorrhage, thermal injury to the airway, pneumothorax, and significant impairment of the diffusing capacity of the lung. Shortness of breath may also be due to cocaine-induced laryngospasm. Inhalation of cocaine may result in pneumomediastinum and pneumothorax.

Gastrointestinal: Abdominal pain following cocaine use should raise suspicion of ischemic bowel; bowel perforation; and, in the smuggler, bowel obstruction. Abdominal pain may also be caused by hepatic necrosis due to cocaine use, which is similar to the necrosis commonly observed with acetaminophen. Renal infarction may also manifest as abdominal pain.

Skeletal muscle: Cocaine use can lead to rhabdomyolysis, which may be associated with hyperthermia, seizures, or agitation. Rhabdomyolysis associated with cocaine use is usually severe, leading to renal failure and acidosis. Asymptomatic rhabdomyolysis may be observed in patients who chronically use cocaine and may be attributed to the effects of cocaine on the dopaminergic system.

Back pain may be a symptom of rhabdomyolysis, renal infarction, or aortic dissection.

...

On the use of benzos for coke use in medicine:

Medical Care: Patients with cocaine poisoning may exhibit severe CNS and cardiovascular dysfunction, leading to a loss of airway protective reflexes, cardiovascular collapse, and mortality.

Admit all patients with major adrenergic symptoms, severe hyperthermia, severe agitation, recurrent convulsions, persistent arrhythmias and dysrhythmias, severe hypertension, and complications (eg, respiratory failure, cardiogenic and noncardiogenic pulmonary edema, altered mental status, myocardial ischemia and infarction, hypotension and shock, severe rhabdomyolysis, severe acidosis) to the intensive care unit. Complications such as aortic dissection, intracerebral bleeding, and subarachnoid bleeding require surgical intensive care. Also, admit asymptomatic body packers and body stuffers to the ICU.

...

Psychomotor agitation: The immediate control of psychomotor agitation is critical in preventing the lethality of cocaine poisoning. Psychomotor agitation is managed in the standard fashion. Benzodiazepines, such as diazepam and lorazepam, are the mainstay of therapy and may be used generously until sedation is accomplished. Avoid physical restraints in patients with psychomotor agitation because they may interfere with heat dissipation. Likewise, avoid neuroleptic agents because they interfere with heat dissipation and, perhaps, lower the seizure threshold.

Convulsions: Aggressively treat recurrent seizures because they may worsen hyperthermia, rhabdomyolysis, hypoxia, and acidosis. Seizures may also be a manifestation of an acute intracerebral complication. Imaging studies and, when indicated, cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) analysis should follow immediate seizure control.

In the setting of cocaine toxicity, seizures are treated in the standard manner, except that phenytoin may be ineffective in this circumstance and may be part of the street additives to cocaine bulk. Incremental doses of benzodiazepines, such as diazepam (0.1-0.3 mg/kg, intravenously) and lorazepam, are the preferred initial anticonvulsants because they are quick acting, effective, and titratable. When a total dose of 8 mg of lorazepam fails to control seizures, barbiturates, which have traditionally been effective anticonvulsants in toxic ingestions, may be effective in controlling seizures because they may act synergistically with the benzodiazepines.

Because phenobarbital acts slowly, a short-acting barbiturate, such as pentobarbital or amobarbital, may be considered. If these agents are not rapidly effective in controlling the seizures, consider barbiturate anesthesia with ventilatory support and neuromuscular blockade. In these cases, electroencephalographic monitoring is required to monitor the presence or absence of seizure activity.

Neuromuscular blockade is indicated to control muscle activity and the subsequent development of acidosis. Neuromuscular blockade may be accomplished with nondepolarizing agents, such as vecuronium. Continue the neuromuscular blockade until the electroencephalogram results are normal for 2 or more hours.

Hypertension: Hypertension is common in patients intoxicated with cocaine and is due to alpha-mediated vasoconstriction, which is secondary to norepinephrine generated by the CNS. Cocaine-induced hypertension commonly responds to benzodiazepines. Benzodiazepines have been shown to be effective in the treatment of cocaine-induced hypertension, with or without chest pain or tachycardia.

When benzodiazepines fail to control hypertension, vasodilators, such as nitroprusside and nitroglycerin, are effective in controlling the blood pressure. If a contraindication to nitrate therapy exists, alpha-blockers, such as phentolamine, which block the vasomotor effect of norepinephrine, may be used.

Beta-blockers, in general, are best avoided in the setting of cocaine toxicity because they may result in unopposed alpha effects of cocaine. Beta-blockers have been reported to increase the blood pressure, reduce coronary blood flow, reduce left ventricular function, and reduce the cardiac output and tissue perfusion in patients with cocaine toxicity. Furthermore, in animal models of cocaine toxicity, beta-blockers have been associated with an increased risk of seizures and an increased mortality.

Beta-blocker toxicity (acute rises in blood pressure) in the setting of cocaine poisoning also extends to the short-acting, beta1 selective antagonists, such as esmolol, and to labetalol, which has both alpha-blockade and beta-blockade activity (in a 1:3 ratio when used intravenously and a 1:7 ratio when used orally).

Nifedipine may potentiate the incidence of seizures and death after cocaine administration and should be avoided in the treatment of cocaine-induced hypertension. In addition, calcium channel blockers are also thought to dilate splanchnic vessels, thereby increasing absorption of ingested cocaine from the gastrointestinal tract, which may become disastrous in body packers and body stuffers.

Myocardial ischemia and infarction: The administration of oxygen, nitrates, and aspirin are recommended in all patients with cocaine-induced myocardial ischemia. Benzodiazepines (diazepam, lorazepam) may be used to control cocaine-induced sympathetic tone. Phentolamine may relieve cocaine-induced coronary artery vasoconstriction and ameliorate myocardial ischemia. Likewise, verapamil and diltiazem (Cardizem) may ameliorate coronary vasoconstriction. If signs of a transmural myocardial infarction are present on the electrocardiogram, thrombolytic therapy may be beneficial in the absence of any contraindications; however, percutaneous transluminal coronary angioplasty (PTCA) may be as beneficial and safer. Again, beta-adrenergic blockade may be harmful in a patient with cocaine-induced myocardial ischemia because the unopposed alpha effects of cocaine result in coronary vasoconstriction.

Supraventricular tachycardias: Consider electrical cardioversion in all unstable patients. Correct hypoxia, acidosis, and myocardial ischemia. Cocaine-induced atrial tachyarrhythmias that are stable commonly respond to benzodiazepines, which reduce CNS sympathetic effects of cocaine. If sedative-hypnotics fail to control the arrhythmia, diltiazem and verapamil may be effective. Adenosine generally is ineffective in cocaine-induced supraventricular tachycardias.

...

Ventricular arrhythmias: When ventricular arrhythmias occur shortly after cocaine use, they are thought to be due to the effects of cocaine on the sodium channels. These arrhythmias may respond to sodium bicarbonate, the general antidote for sodium channel blockers. Sodium bicarbonate may be considered in patients with tachycardias associated with QRS durations greater than 100 milliseconds. As in tricyclic antidepressant (TCA) toxicity, maintain the pH at a range of 7.50-7.55.

These dysrhythmias also respond to lidocaine, especially when used in combination with benzodiazepines. Initial concerns about the use of lidocaine in the setting of cocaine poisoning have proven unfounded because of major differences in kinetics between the 2 compounds, which actually result in reduced effects of cocaine when lidocaine is present. No adverse effects from the use of lidocaine in the setting of cocaine poisoning have yet been reported.

Magnesium may also be considered in the treatment of ventricular dysrhythmias, especially in torsades.

[same cite as above]



:cow:
 
samoth said:
Like I said, this isn't a subject that allows for simple cliff notes. Probably a reason it's not often discussed.



:cow:


Okay, just as an example:

Chest pain: Chest pain is the most frequent cocaine-related symptom and constitutes approximately 40% of cocaine-related emergency department visits. Chest pain following cocaine use may be due to a number of causes, including those directly attributable to the effects of cocaine, such as myocardial infarction and aortic dissection, and causes due to complications of the route of administration. For example, inhalation of cocaine, resulting in pneumomediastinum and pneumothorax, and intravenous injection, resulting in septic emboli, may all manifest as chest pain and other cardiopulmonary symptoms.


There are a few here:

myocardial infarction and aortic dissection - neither term I understand. But those could be temporary and not 'damage causing' without knowing more.

There is one in there - septic emboli - that's the result of dirty injections, not cocaine....
 
jh1 said:
Okay, just as an example:

There are a few here:

myocardial infarction and aortic dissection - neither term I understand. But those could be temporary and not 'damage causing' without knowing more.

There is one in there - septic emboli - that's the result of dirty injections, not cocaine....

This isn't my area, so I won't pretend to understand what they're saying inasmuch as I am able to communicate it to others.



:cow:
 
jh1 said:
Okay, just as an example:




There are a few here:

myocardial infarction and aortic dissection - neither term I understand. But those could be temporary and not 'damage causing' without knowing more.

There is one in there - septic emboli - that's the result of dirty injections, not cocaine....

Isn't a myocardial infarction a heart attack?
 
myocardial infaraction -

Okay that's a fucking heart attack -which is caused by loss of oxygen supply to heart tissue. I can see why that would be cause for concern. Is that something that can happen without you knowning and build up damage over time?

And Aortic Dissection is a tear in the wall of your fucking heart. Yeah Def a concern. Aortic dissection is a tear in the wall of the aorta that causes blood to flow between the layers of the wall of the aorta and force the layers apart. Aortic dissection is a medical emergency and can quickly lead to death, even with optimal treatment. If the dissection tears the aorta completely open (through all three layers) massive and rapid blood loss occurs. Aortic dissections resulting in rupture have a 90% mortality rate even if intervention is timely


See I am trying to link this not to a OD / death, but damange to your system over time.
 
Stefka said:
Isn't a myocardial infarction a heart attack?



Yes it is.

I looked it up.

This is my point. I am not sayig that going over the edge can't damange you body... but I've never had a heart attact or a tear in my heart.

I am trying to figure out where this CV damage they speak of comes from.
 
jh1 said:
See I am trying to link this not to a OD / death, but damange to your system over time.

"This effect is of increased importance in the chronic user because the repeated use of cocaine results in accelerated coronary atherosclerosis and increased platelet aggregation. With chronic use, dopamine stores in peripheral nerve terminals are depleted. When this store depletion is coupled with cardiovascular sensitivity to catecholamines, a variant anginalike syndrome with ST elevations may develop during cocaine withdrawal.

The chronic use of cocaine is also associated with multiple foci of myocarditis, fibrosis, contraction band necrosis, hypertrophy with inefficient oxygen use, and alterations in the genetic material of the myocytes."

Don't ask me to explain that, lol.



:cow:
 
samoth said:
"This effect is of increased importance in the chronic user because the repeated use of cocaine results in accelerated coronary atherosclerosis and increased platelet aggregation. With chronic use, dopamine stores in peripheral nerve terminals are depleted. When this store depletion is coupled with cardiovascular sensitivity to catecholamines, a variant anginalike syndrome with ST elevations may develop during cocaine withdrawal.

The chronic use of cocaine is also associated with multiple foci of myocarditis, fibrosis, contraction band necrosis, hypertrophy with inefficient oxygen use, and alterations in the genetic material of the myocytes."

Don't ask me to explain that, lol.



:cow:

It means it weakens your heart.
 
almost-pro said:
how many of you use cocaine on a regular basis? I have a friend that uses 3-4x a week and i've been trying to get him off of it but I think it has him by the balls. I don't know alot about it personally but I do know its catabolic. Is it bad on the heart for someone to use it this often? He told me he does about 2grams a week. is that alot?


Thats a couple hundred bucks a week depending on who he knows. Thats not a lot through out the week. Seems like a waste.
 
An aortic dissection is a tear in the aorta. It's almost always lethal without surgery (some can be managed medically).

Cocaine causes coronary vasoconstriction (actually it constricts every blood vessel in your body). This is what causes heart attacks in cocaine users. Even healthy 18 year old athletes can have heart attacks from cocaine use. Cocaine users also can have dysrhythmias (ventricular tachycardia leading to ventricular fibrillation) from its use, and this is almost always fatal unless someone is nearby with a defibrillator. It's been thought that alpha receptors present in the myocardium are responsible for this. Part of my research deals with looking at the use of alpha blockers (phentolamine) in refractory ventricular fibrillation. We've had great success with it in the animals, and before I left academics, I was about to apply for funding for human trials. As soon as I get established at my new hospital, I will likely submit for NIH funding to study this.

I'm glad someone knows about cocaethylene. Many of my residents -- at one of the best emergency medicine programs in the country -- are clueless when you mention it.
 
swatdoc said:
An aortic dissection is a tear in the aorta. It's almost always lethal without surgery (some can be managed medically).

Cocaine causes coronary vasoconstriction (actually it constricts every blood vessel in your body). This is what causes heart attacks in cocaine users. Even healthy 18 year old athletes can have heart attacks from cocaine use. Cocaine users also can have dysrhythmias (ventricular tachycardia leading to ventricular fibrillation) from its use, and this is almost always fatal unless someone is nearby with a defibrillator. It's been thought that alpha receptors present in the myocardium are responsible for this. Part of my research deals with looking at the use of alpha blockers (phentolamine) in refractory ventricular fibrillation. We've had great success with it in the animals, and before I left academics, I was about to apply for funding for human trials. As soon as I get established at my new hospital, I will likely submit for NIH funding to study this.

I'm glad someone knows about cocaethylene. Many of my residents -- at one of the best emergency medicine programs in the country -- are clueless when you mention it.



Cocaethylene is a byproduct when coke is metabolized with alcohol - but that is liver toxic, but I don't know how it or if it effects your CV system.

My main question here is - not what immediate fatal damage can coke do to your system - we're all quite aware - heart attacks, tears in your heart, etc.

It's really what are the more slowly established life time damage that occurs to your CV system as a result of coke abuse?

I used alot of coke, I never had a tear in my heart or an attack. Not saying it can't happen - but it must be in exteme cases or somewhat rare cases - I know alot of coke users.
 
jh1 said:
Cocaethylene is a byproduct when coke is metabolized with alcohol - but that is liver toxic, but I don't know how it or if it effects your CV system.

My main question here is - not what immediate fatal damage can coke do to your system - we're all quite aware - heart attacks, tears in your heart, etc.

It's really what are the more slowly established life time damage that occurs to your CV system as a result of coke abuse?

I used alot of coke, I never had a tear in my heart or an attack. Not saying it can't happen - but it must be in exteme cases or somewhat rare cases - I know alot of coke users.
Cocaethylene has cardiovascular effects, too. It's an active metabolite of cocaine in the presence of alcohol, and its half-life is severely prolonged.

Long-term cocaine use has been associated with nasal septum necrosis, ischemic heart disease (from many minor heart attacks), congestive heart failure, pulmonary fibrosis, persistent hypertension and accelerated hypertension (due to arteries being scarred from extremely high pressures), kidney damage (from blood pressure spikes), and many other things.

Another immediate complication of cocaine and crack is "crack lung," which is an ill described acute lung disorder (pneumonitis) that can be fatal. Pneumomediastinum is also a common occurrence.
 
At the peak of my brother's meth addiction (6'4" 150lb) he was arrested for attempt to sell and possession of an unlicensed weapon. The charges were later dropped because he went to rehab and started living clean (and my parents paid a shitload of money for a good attorney that worked his magic).

I truly believe that the way that he has stayed clean for this long (2+ years) is because he did two things:
1) He abandoned all of the bad influences in his life and essentially started over. He moved far away and dropped ALL contact with ALL OF HIS FRIENDS, even the ones that did not do drugs.

2) He attends meetings a few days a week even if the group is not directly related to him. He was never into coke or alcohol but still attends CA and AA meetings just to stay on track.

Now all of his friends are people that he has met in meetings and people that actually want him to succeed in life. The thing is, it took a very dramatic event to convince him that it was time to change. It sucks that it had to happen that way but it often does have to happen like that. Telling somebody not to do something is only going to make them do it more. Your friend is going to have to figure this one out on his own.
 
swatdoc said:
Just don't use cocaine and come to the emergency department when you have your chest pain and try to hide the fact you're using it.

Happened yet again last night. When I asked if she used drugs I was told no. I was suspicious because her blood pressure and heart rate were through the roof. Sneaked in a urine tox analysis when she had to urinate and guess who was positive for cocaine?

When I confronted her with it, she adamantly denied it. Then finally she admitted to doing four lines of coke.

Had she admitted that crap an hour earlier she would have been treated more appropriately instead of her and her husband accusing me of not figuring out what's going on with her and demanding to know what is causing her pain. Well guess what, it's the cocaine you did that's causing your pain. A little bit of benzos and her pain went away. Would have done that sooner had she actually admitted to using.

Rule number one in medicine: patients lie. Rule number one for the patients, always be honest to your physician. I could care less if she used coke. I'd rather treat her instead of trying to play Sherlock Holmes and try to find out the hard way.

Is your first name Gregory? LOL
 
jh1 said:
Cocaethylene is a byproduct when coke is metabolized with alcohol - but that is liver toxic, but I don't know how it or if it effects your CV system.

My main question here is - not what immediate fatal damage can coke do to your system - we're all quite aware - heart attacks, tears in your heart, etc.

It's really what are the more slowly established life time damage that occurs to your CV system as a result of coke abuse?

I used alot of coke, I never had a tear in my heart or an attack. Not saying it can't happen - but it must be in exteme cases or somewhat rare cases - I know alot of coke users.
I'm sure you can search pubmed to find a source for this, but there's really not a strong correlation between the number of times you do cocaine and the first time you have one of those symptoms. It could be your first, 2nd, or 200th.
 
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