read an interesting article... which makes me want to..

[Bigpimpin10]

wow ..this article is unbelieveable i cant imagine how these people did this..fucking morons










Nov 14, 2008 04:30 AM
Chinta Puxley
THE CANADIAN PRESS

WINNIPEG–A 5-year-old girl was beaten bloody with a metal rod and had her face shoved in her own vomit before one final beating left her dead on the family's dirty basement floor, a Manitoba court heard yesterday.

Samantha Kematch and her common-law husband, Karl McKay, are accused of first-degree murder in the 2005 death of Phoenix Sinclair.

The couple is also accused of trying to pass off another child as Phoenix to convince welfare investigators and the RCMP that their daughter was still with the family.

McKay's youngest son shook and covered his face with his hands as he testified that both Kematch and McKay used to beat Phoenix, sometimes with their fists, other times with a metal rod, at their home in Fisher River, Man.

Phoenix was also shot with a pellet gun "just for the hell of it," he said. The little girl was beaten and physically stomped on so much that she just stopped crying, said her 15-year-old stepbrother.

After one beating, Phoenix's knuckles were cut open and became infected but she was never taken to the doctor, he said. At night, the boy said he could hear her sobbing in the basement through the vents and he would go down to check on her.

There was no heat in the basement and Phoenix would be "curled up in a little ball" without a blanket, he said. When he tried to turn on the heat downstairs, the boy said he was yelled at.

Sometimes, Kematch would laugh while her daughter was being beaten or choked unconscious, he testified.

"I would look at their faces and I wouldn't see no tears or nothing," the boy said. "No remorse."

He said the day she died, his father beat Phoenix and stomped on her head and chest. McKay pushed her and left her on the basement floor while Kematch watched.

When the couple left the house to visit McKay's father, the boy said he went down to check on Phoenix and thought she was playing dead.

"I just touched her back," he said. "It was all cold. Her eyes were open. I put my hand on her mouth. She wasn't breathing."

When the couple returned to find Phoenix's lifeless body, the boy said they didn't show any emotion. He was told to "watch your baby sister. We're going to the dump and bury her," the boy said.

"They were both in it together."

Both Kematch and McKay told him not to tell anyone what happened to Phoenix, he said. When the boy returned to his father's house several weeks later, he said the basement had been cleaned and the floor painted.

Phoenix's body was found in a shallow grave near the garbage dump in Fisher River, Man., in March 2006.

Kematch's defence lawyers have argued McKay was in charge of the household and gave the harshest beatings. In her cross-examination, lawyer Roberta Campbell suggested that Kematch never stomped on her daughter or forced her to eat her own vomit.

"Yeah, but she was there," the boy testified. "She was standing there. She didn't say anything. She was just watching."

Defence lawyers for McKay suggested Kematch used to hit Phoenix and call her names when McKay wasn't around. In his cross-examination, lawyer Mike Cook said McKay was often away.

McKay drove a truck and then a school bus, as well as attended a four-week CPR course, Cook said. When Phoenix was beaten with a fridge handle and a metal rod, Cook suggested McKay was out of the house.

"It was both of them," the boy insisted.

 

[Six8]

My late night depression just turned to rage after reading this. Some people truly do deserve something far worse than life in prison or the death penalty and this is a perfect example.

 

[Bigpimpin10]

exactly...i was so angry when i saw this..

 

[captainahole]

This is a huge thing here in Manitoba. Rightfully so. This is just a example of the pathetic Manitoba Indian. I live around them in the city. They are lazy, useless, non productive, a total drain on the Canadian economy in all areas financially, judicially and socially, and morally. What I see around me although this is extreme it's a perfect example of what and who they are.

Everytime I think they can't get any worse they hit another low.

 

[nimbus]

fuck this article makes me realize how good my parents were

 

[UA_Iron]

Ah fuck that pisses me off how someone could do that to another human being.

Violence against people who deserve it is one thing...how could you do that to your own daughter?

Fucken a

 

[Chrisco915]

read an interesting article... which makes me want to..

(SHOUT)
Kick my heels up and (SHOUT)
Throw my hands up and (SHOUT)
Throw my head back and (SHOUT)
Come on now (SHOUT)
Don't forget to say you will
Don't forget to say-yay-ay-ay-ay (SAY YOU WILL)
Say it right now baby (SAY YOU WILL)
Come On, Come On (SAY YOU WILL)
Say that a youoooo (SAY YOU WILL)

After reading how distrubing this article is I thought it best to bring a little light to this thread.

 

[nimbus]

read an interesting article... which makes me want to..

(SHOUT)
Kick my heels up and (SHOUT)
Throw my hands up and (SHOUT)
Throw my head back and (SHOUT)
Come on now (SHOUT)
Don't forget to say you will
Don't forget to say-yay-ay-ay-ay (SAY YOU WILL)
Say it right now baby (SAY YOU WILL)
Come On, Come On (SAY YOU WILL)
Say that a youoooo (SAY YOU WILL)

After reading how distrubing this article is I thought it best to bring a little light to this thread.

ha i thought the same thing, but with Ashlee Simspon's 'La La' instead.

 

[Bikini Mod]

Ah fuck that pisses me off how someone could do that to another human being.

Violence against people who deserve it is one thing...how could you do that to your own daughter?

Fucken a

I've been emailing, calling, writing briefs, filing motions, blogging all about stuff like this for 2+ years... and? What good has it done for my ex's daughters?

Shit like this happens all the time and even when THE KIDS tell police, social services, teachers, shrinks, etc, etc, etc STILL nothing is done. So why does this surprise any of you?

 

[Bigpimpin10]

its just saddening..and it makes me angry..its hard not to read the story again..i feel sorry for the boy..he had to watch it all happen.

 

[Cal_21]

my late night depression just turned to rage after reading this. some people truly do deserve something far worse than life in prison or the death penalty and this is a perfect example.

+1

 

[musclemom]

Violence begets violence. Child abuse is an inheredited disorder. When you grow up being beaten you swear you'll never do the same thing to your child and yet, unfortunately, the way we were raised ourselves is really the only way we know to raise our own children. When you only have a hammer in your toolbox, all you can ever do is hit things. You get frustrated and that old programming kicks in and unless you have the foresight to put the brakes on, the personal insight to realize that you're headed down a dangerous road, the children suffer.

The parents are write-offs. It's the surviving siblings who will need decades of help to prevent them from perpetuating the family disease.

 

[Bikini Mod]

Violence begets violence. Child abuse is an inheredited disorder. When you grow up being beaten you swear you'll never do the same thing to your child and yet, unfortunately, the way we were raised ourselves is really the only way we know to raise our own children. When you only have a hammer in your toolbox, all you can ever do is hit things. You get frustrated and that old programming kicks in and unless you have the foresight to put the brakes on, the personal insight to realize that you're headed down a dangerous road, the children suffer.

The parents are write-offs. It's the surviving siblings who will need decades of help to prevent them from perpetuating the family disease.

MM I know you are correct, that this type of behavior is learned. HOWEVER, My husband was beaten until the age of 16 when he went to knock his old man on his ass. The old man kicked him out. My husband had his pelvis broken, skull fractured, etc and that was just the worst of it, not the "everyday" abuse. Imagine the atrocities he witnessed and had to commit in Vietnam? And yet he has NEVER raised a hand to any of his children. And he wouldn't CONSIDER raising his VOICE to me... forget his hand.

I was raised not nearly as badly as him, but I have never beaten or otherwise abused my children. I don't verbally abuse or berate my husband.

So if the two of us who were pretty badly abused all of our childhood (me, my entire life but for the last few years - well not physically anymore anyways) can EASILY MAKE THIS CHOICE then WTF is everybody else's excuse? It's not THAT HARD to not beat and emotionally abuse your kids.

I do feel badly for the boy who had to watch all of this.

No one hates to read these types of articles more than me but I know you believe me when I tell that it HARDLY surprizes me. Matter of fact, NOTHING surprizes me much (in a bad way) anymore.

 

[musclemom]

MM I know you are correct, that this type of behavior is learned. HOWEVER, My husband was beaten until the age of 16 when he went to knock his old man on his ass. The old man kicked him out. My husband had his pelvis broken, skull fractured, etc and that was just the worst of it, not the "everyday" abuse. Imagine the atrocities he witnessed and had to commit in Vietnam? And yet he has NEVER raised a hand to any of his children. And he wouldn't CONSIDER raising his VOICE to me... forget his hand.

I was raised not nearly as badly as him, but I have never beaten or otherwise abused my children. I don't verbally abuse or berate my husband.

As I said "unless you have the foresight to put the brakes on, the personal insight to realize that you're headed down a dangerous road, the children suffer."

It's about being rational and having the ability to stop yourself from falling back into familiar patterns. Just because you and Grump have that intelligence and rationality does not automatically mean everyone does. It's terribly easy to say, "I was abused, I have never abused my children."

You may get very upset with what I'm going to say to you, but I will point out that while you yourself never raised a hand to your own children, you married an abuser who ended up abusing your children, so you perpetuated the cycle anyway.

Women frequently follow a pattern of martyrdom in their relationships if they grow up in dysfunctional households. If a girl grows up seeing mom abused and dad a tyrant then she often repeats that role, even if she wasn't abused herself (or if her abuse was direct women still often take a passive role in permitting abuse). You've broken the cycle with Grump, as I did when I married my current husband, but we are not the norm. And I know from myself, it took a lot of personal insight and a lot of brutally honest soul searching to come to some rational conclusions about how and why I was attracted to certain men. One of the things I had to accept was that I needed to stop trying to have a successful relationship with men like my father.

I disliked my father, he was an obsessive bully, he lacked honor, he was abusive, in hindsight he seemed to purposely set out to sabotage my life and erode my self esteem. My first marriage was to a man who I thought was sweet natured and madly in love with me, but who turned out to be obsessed with me, bullied his son, who eroded the self esteem of others to make himself feel better, who was deceitful and was generally a shitty father ...

We often gravitate to the familiar, unconsciously jumping from the frying pan into the fire. As I've told others on this board, you subconsciously know all of the major personality traits about a person within hours of the beginning of your first date. It comes down to being rational enough to break the cycle.

 

[binö]

obivously the couple was reacting to years of racism/sexism/classism.
they reacted the only way they knew how...blame the system, not the true victims (parents)

 

[*ebony*]

i think i could look at that little girl's parents in the face and shoot them.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Violence begets violence. Child abuse is an inheredited disorder. When you grow up being beaten you swear you'll never do the same thing to your child and yet, unfortunately, the way we were raised ourselves is really the only way we know to raise our own children. When you only have a hammer in your toolbox, all you can ever do is hit things. You get frustrated and that old programming kicks in and unless you have the foresight to put the brakes on, the personal insight to realize that you're headed down a dangerous road, the children suffer.

The parents are write-offs. It's the surviving siblings who will need decades of help to prevent them from perpetuating the family disease.

In most cases you are 100% correct. My father and mother beat me to the hospital so many time I can't remember. My father's favorite thing was to say, he got hurt playing football. I was a swimmer, played water polo an wrestled. So football was a sport I never played.

I decided when I left home at 16, the old man came into the garage annd slappped me because the garage door was open. (he opened it) I picked him up and told him if he ever touched me again I would make sure that would be his last. That didn't work too well for me because I was on the street in about 2 minutes. I stayed with a friend for a few weeks and moved into my own place in the bus yard where I worked. Was a room next to the drivers room....

I have had 4 children and I have never spanked them or thought of being angry when I was showing them they did something not acceptable. I only had to give them "that look" and all was well.

So people that abuse children or spouses should be given the same as they give. I have no problems with removing body parts from an adult abuser.

Be well!

 

[Bikini Mod]

MM I am not offended at all by what you say because you are 100% CORRECT. But I did leave that marriage the first time the motherfucker put his hands on me, didn't give him a second chance. The only "mistake" I made was by "trying to do the right thing" and willingly shared custody with a man who I had a final protective order against. Though, it wouldn't have mattered anyways as the two judges who protected my children from that piece of shit left the family court and the nutjob who came on after that well... you know the story.

Here is an interesting tidbit of information that I am willing to wager MOST peeps don't know:

In the state of NJ it is still within the confines of the law to MAKE a woman share physical custody with a man even though she has a Final Protective Order against him. ... and more often then not, that is EXACTLY what the family court system does leaving the door wide open for the man to hit the woman with an onslaught of malicious litigation (more abuse) and when the mother is less and less willing to continue to give the children up (most of the time the children don't WANT to go) finally the court will actually take the children from their mother, strip her of her rights and cut off all contact not only with the mother, but her entire family.

I know this sounds crazy but it happens ALL THE TIME.

So now, these children are trapped with an abusive piece of shit who can do whatever the fuck he wants to the kids as they have no way out... Many commit suicide.

EDUCATION is how we can help to break this cycle, which is why I speak out about this every chance I get.

Thanks to you, MM for also spreading the word!!! Those who refuse to face history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[housemusik83]

wow! thats some f up shit

 

[ponyfitness]

Death penalty is too humane for people like this.

They should be beaten just like they beat that child every day for however long it takes until they die. I would quite gladly torture either of them while stapling their dead child's picture to their foreheads.

Just like I think people who rape children should be raped repeatedly until they are either insane or dead.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Death penalty is too humane for people like this.

They should be beaten just like they beat that child every day for however long it takes until they die. I would quite gladly torture either of them while stapling their dead child's picture to their foreheads.

Just like I think people who rape children should be raped repeatedly until they are either insane or dead.

The problem is that the people that are supposed to protect the kids are too busy covering their own asses. Sad but true, I am sure there were a number of people that called the local child protective services and they said, well nobody was hurt, just a spat.

 

[musclemom]

Those who refuse to face history are doomed to repeat it.

In the end, that's the only point I was trying to make. I'm not justifying what those vile beings did to that child (there is no justification), but I also have absolutely no doubt that both of those people were abused as children themselves.

It takes intelligence, insight and compassion to realize, "hurting another being is wrong." These people may not possess that intelligence. Or the empathy and compassion was just beaten out of them. If it's possible to beat a child enough to shatter their psyche into pieces, it's certainly possible to beat out compassion.

I mean, Phoenix's stepbrother was around 13 when she was killed. It never once occurred to him to tell the police, social services or school officials that his parents were beating his stepsister mercilessly? Maybe he thought this was normal behavior and it never occurred to him that something was wrong until his sister was dead. And if his sister didn't die perhaps he would grow up to beat and stomp his wife and/or kids. That's how abuse becomes the family heritage.

I'm currently studying ethics and am forced to confess that I'm discovering moral absolutes are the easiest answer. I just can't stand in judgement of anyone at this point in time and say "What you did is wrong, you should be tortured to death," because my moral compass doesn't tell me "eye for an eye." I don't have the right to make that judgement.

And I'm saying this as a woman who remembers clearly the day my father dropped me with a swift right and gave me my first black eye (like you, Grump, I was taking a punch for a mistake he made). I had to be either 12 or 13 at the time. I remember the look on his face when he drew back his fist. I can't forgive what he did, but I have tried very hard to understand where his insanity came from.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

In the end, that's the only point I was trying to make. I'm not justifying what those vile beings did to that child (there is no justification), but I also have absolutely no doubt that both of those people were abused as children themselves.

It takes intelligence, insight and compassion to realize, "hurting another being is wrong." These people may not possess that intelligence. Or the empathy and compassion was just beaten out of them. If it's possible to beat a child enough to shatter their psyche into pieces, it's certainly possible to beat out compassion.

I mean, Phoenix's stepbrother was around 13 when she was killed. It never once occurred to him to tell the police, social services or school officials that his parents were beating his stepsister mercilessly? Maybe he thought this was normal behavior and it never occurred to him that something was wrong until his sister was dead. And if his sister didn't die perhaps he would grow up to beat and stomp his wife and/or kids. That's how abuse becomes the family heritage.

I'm currently studying ethics and am forced to confess that I'm discovering moral absolutes are the easiest answer. I just can't stand in judgement of anyone at this point in time and say "What you did is wrong, you should be tortured to death," because my moral compass doesn't tell me "eye for an eye." I don't have the right to make that judgement.

And I'm saying this as a woman who remembers clearly the day my father dropped me with a swift right and gave me my first black eye (like you, Grump, I was taking a punch for a mistake he made). I had to be either 12 or 13 at the time. I remember the look on his face when he drew back his fist. I can't forgive what he did, but I have tried very hard to understand where his insanity came from.

We never know where their insanity originated, we can only know we decide to end it.

 

[Razorguns]

Lots of bad shit happens on indian reservations. which are 3rd world countires within north america.

no one cares until you hear these news stories. then it's back to american idol.

south central la is like beverly hills compared to your local indian reservation.

r

 

[musclemom]

Lots of bad shit happens on indian reservations. which are 3rd world countires within north america.

no one cares until you hear these news stories. then it's back to american idol.

south central la is like beverly hills compared to your local indian reservation.

r

Yeah, you gotta give the people and governments of north american continent credit where it's due. They succeeded in doing to the Native American people what the Nazi's failed to do to the Jews. Biological warfare, open warfare that included murder of women and children, constant harassment, destruction of the food supply and relocation (a true stroke of brilliance shipping the southwestern people to the southeast, the east coast people to the upper midwest), and finally, when you have them under your control, you take away all of their children and brainwash their culture out of them.