Quick help on SF 5x5 bench progression

[Protobuilder]

I'm doing a single factor 5x5 and the past two bench days (Mon. & Fri.), I've missed my last set of 5 by one rep (both times w/ the same weight). After I missed it the first time, I figured I'd try it again . . . and did, but missed again. So, based on what I've read, here are my options:

Either I'll keep the weight the same on my fifth set but drop a few reps in my third and fourth set so I have more in the tank for my fifth set. Or, I'll back the weight off 15-20% and do 5 sets of 5 with that lighter weight (basically, upping the volume & overall workload), and then try for the new 1x5 PR on Friday using the weight I missed before.

What do you guys think? Which is the best way to approach this? (and, in the future, I'll use my new 1.25 lb. weights to make 2.5 pound jumps on upper body stuff instead of 5 pounds!)

I'm doing my best to learn the 5x5 principles so I can apply 'em w/o having to ask question after question . . . but I'm new to this so just want to make sure I'm handling it right.

 

[Guinness5.0]

I'm not sure there's one right answer (both options you present look plausible to me).

My vote would be to pick the one that sounds best in your gut and don't second guess it - IMO the mental aspect of lifting is huge and you should execute your plan with the utmost of confidence. That in itself may help you bust a plateau.

 

[anotherbutters]

I lose track of how long everyone's been doing SF 5x5, there are so many of you I assume you've been doing it a while and you've made progress so far - you didn't just start a couple of weeks ago and start too high did you?

Like Guinness said, you could do either. I don't think lowering the earlier sets would buy me more than another week or so though. Glenn suggested changing the set/rep scheme when you drop the weight and ramp up again, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a flat 5x5. Ripstone's just reached the same stage on his squats - he's thinking of changing to a flat 3x5 for his top sets.

 

[Protobuilder]

THANKS for the input, guys! I appreciate it.

anotherbutters: I'm new to 5x5 (started a few weeks ago after coming off some back injuries and figuring I needed to revamp my whole approach). I do keep a journal but it's over at clutchfitness.com. I very well may have started too high on bench and military. Thanks for raising that issue. I guess if that's the case, the thing to do is keep going on everything else, but back up and reramp up on bench and maybe military. I've recently added 1.25 lb. plates to my gym so I can make more realistic jumps.

Overall, I just wanted to make sure I had the big "programming" picture down and that I was on the right track to attacking my stalling point. I really don't want to back off and reramp or alter my set/rep scheme too much until I've really exhausted my options.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

There are a lot of options, as was said. In my opinion, you should try at it three times before you quit. That's more of a tradition than anything, though. Once you fail to hit your top set thrice, change something. What do you change? A number of things can be done. Is your goal more oriented towards size or strength? If strength, I'd drop the top set to three reps until you stall there. That'll give you a bit more progression. If it's size, I'd switch from one top set to 3x5 for sets across, obviously with a lower weight.

There are too many options, really.

 

[blut wump]

I think the crucial aspect here is that you're fairly new to the program. As such, I think the better option is to back off and re-ramp. If you had more time in then I'd prefer attacking the top end harder but it's possible that you just came at it too aggressively this first time through.

 

[Protobuilder]

Thanks guys. Anybody think it's a "bad" idea to give it one more shot (it'd be my third attempt) as AI suggested?

My only concern is what blut wump mentioned -- I'm in about week 3 of the single-factor 5x5 . . . maybe I AM pushing too hard too soon if I'm needing 3 sessions to get my bench PR. [FWIW, I've always been crap at bench]

 

[blut wump]

We're all crap at bench . Sorry, I didn't realise this was only your third week. I'd say re-ramp straight away and put this one down to experience.

Take enough off the bar such that you can add each week and be back at your current weight in four weeks time. Make next week comfortably easy.

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

Definitely try at it again, but ramp up to it this time. Hell, I'd be inclined to start back at week one (for bench, anyway) and make smaller jumps forward. By the time you reach the weight you're stalled at, you should break through it.

Also, make sure you're eating and sleeping enough. This is more crucial than many seem to acknowledge in terms of strength gains.

 

[anotherbutters]

Ditto. Restart with the weights from week 1, but ramp up using the new 1.25lb plates. Hopefully you'll be able to set a string of PRs for a few weeks after your reach your current PR.

 

[Protobuilder]

Update -- I got it, but barely (needed some leg drive). Tonight was my 3d attempt w/ this weight and, b/c I'm hardheaded, I decided to try it again rather than start over and reramp. BUT, now that I got it, and just barely, I think maybe it's time to start over. I REALLY hate to do this but maybe it's best. Here's the problem -- I don't want to drop back and take 4 weeks just to get back to where I am today, and if I"m lucky, be able to add maybe another PR of 2.5 or 5 pounds but then be stuck AGAIN and not move forward more than, say, one or two weeks and have to start over AGAIN. Make sense? Bench is a real struggle for me. If I can only PR for one or maybe 2 weeks, then I'm stuck reramping, spending maybe 4 weeks ramping, only to get a small PR. And then starting the process over again. That's one PR a month! LoL And maybe that's what it takes but geesh. That seems like slow progress. Any thoughts from you experienced guys?

Next, b/c I don't really know where to put this (I probably should start a journal here), here's another question -- if you get your 5x5 PR but your form sucks, do you keep that weight until you're doing it w/ perfect form? I got my squat PR tonight but form wasn't good. I don't feel like I should shoot up again until I'm really confident doing that weight . . . what do you guys think?

 

[Anthrax Invasion]

How long have you been lifting? A PR monthly is nothing to scoff at, if you've been lifting for some time already.

 

[anotherbutters]

I know exactly what you mean. I felt the same way - four weeks seems like a long time to go back to, for maybe two weeks of PRs after it. But, the rate at which you get stronger slows down over time. There's nothing you can do about that, that's just the way it is (whilst natty).

I'm in the same situation at my first plateau too, but I'm expecting more than two weeks of PRs. I don't know what that will be, whether it's 3 weeks or 10 weeks, but I know it will be less than I've acheived so far (and the following time will be less again).

I expect dropping back 4 weeks is better than only dropping back 2 weeks if that's what you were thinking. 4 weeks will give you more of a breather and get the progresion going again, so you ought to be stronger by the time you get to the PR you were stuck at.

Hell, like Guinness said, at some point, you'll only be setting PRs once every couple of months, so we ought to be thankful of where we're at now!

 

[blut wump]

Congrats on the bench PR.

I'm not really sure what you mean on the squat form. Did you not go as deep as you intended or did you wobble on the way up? If depth was a problem then it was a fail. It sounds as though you're hitting limits on squats, too. If you feel that you can count the lift as a success, though, then add a bit next time.

 

[Protobuilder]

AI -- I've been lifting for exactly one year now (trad'l Bb'ing routine mostly). I lifted for a few years probably 6-7 years ago as well.

anotherbutters -- if I drop back, I'll do a 4 week ramp up . . . I just don't want to wait a month to then hope I hit a small PR . . . and be pretty much right where I'm at right now - stuck and needing to go back down for 4 more weeks. That just seems like an inefficient way to add 2.5 or 5 pounds to a lift.

blut wump -- I leaned forward on the way up more than I'm comfortable with. Depth was not a problem.

 

[Numani]

anotherbutters -- if I drop back, I'll do a 4 week ramp up . . . I just don't want to wait a month to then hope I hit a small PR . . . and be pretty much right where I'm at right now - stuck and needing to go back down for 4 more weeks. That just seems like an inefficient way to add 2.5 or 5 pounds to a lift.

QUOTE]


don't knock 2.5-5lbs PRs. when you get it, whats to suggest you won't get another the following week. string a few together and your making great progress.

right now your not making bench PRs yet your knocking the possibilty of a 2.5lb-5lbs PR a month down the road as inefficient...LOL

am I missing something here?

 

[blut wump]

If you lean forward then your posterior chain is likely weak. You'd lean forward to bring your quads more into the movement. Try to imagine that someone is pushing you in the chest and try to lead with your head as you bring your chest up. It probably is best to repeat the weight but if you're feeling good next time don't hold back at adding a small amount.

 

[Vita]

also, make sure your diet is in check.

 

[Protobuilder]

numani -- LoL Good point. I'm new to the program [although I've learned a TON already from reading this site, journals, etc.] and wondering whether it'll work for me, whether I'm doing it right, etc. I really wonder whether getting PRs for weeks on end like some guys do around here is really going to happen, especially on bench where I'm notoriously weak (progress is rare). Basically, my 5x5 weight in week 4 is the exact same weight where I've stalled before. So ramping up over the past 4 weeks (which I'd never done before) hasn't moved me past my old bench PR. I guess I just wonder what's realistic to expect.

blut wump -- I know, I know. Let's put it this way -- today, I have DOMS in my erectors (and I don't get that unless I've turned my squat into a good morning). I've been devoting time to my posterior chain and abs. I do wide-stance GMs, reverse hypers, weighted ab work, etc. In order to get deep in my squat (balance & leaning issues), I keep my stance pretty wide, so my squat is almost entirely hams. I'm REALLY trying to get my posterior chain up to snuff. I think I'll stick w/ the current weight until I can get 5 good reps w/out losing tightness and leaning forward.

 

[blut wump]

Maybe you're overworking your posterior chain and would benefit from some squat work with a narrower stance for a while

I'm kind of in the other situation. I've spent all year working a narrower stance and now I have trouble getting down with a wide stance. I'm currently working low box squats and GMs to correct it and I want to be able to do overhead squats with more than the bar without feeling like I'm about to go arse over apex.

 

[Protobuilder]

Believe me, I'd squat narrow if I could. But I've had a helluva time just finding a squat groove PERIOD. I tried all kinds of things to help but I couldn't get my balance and would lean forward way to much when I tried to go narrower. The only way I could squat OLY-style was by widing my stance. It feels pretty natural but like I said, it's almost all hams.